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Most Powerful Character in Nintendo History; Current Debate: Dark Samus vs. Arceus

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Crimson)S(hadow

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creo shush about my posts... do u WANT me to get flamed? T-T.... we're obviously both rooting for link and i might be the person to make him win...

anyways.... its safe to say that all link are conncted expect the ones from wind water, TP, and later
 

Ronike

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Crimson, you are gonna get banned for doin all this multi posting... edit man!

Well Ill try and get some arguments for Samus vs. Link out there later, but I need to think first.
 

LukeFonFabre

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Let's be honest here. The inverted song of time is inconsistent, and neither playable characters, enemies and even some NPC's are effected by it. Therefore, it wouldn't slow Samus down as it doesn't slow people down, as that's how it works in gameplay aspects.

And no, the bunny hood doesn't make Link go faster than Samus' morph ball, especially with the boost ball. Don't bring the laws of physics into this, both games show they don't follow them so it's a flawed arguement.:p

The golden gauntlets don't effect Link's sword strength, that's a fact. They are clearly magical and only work in certain scenarios, so that entire arguement is BS.

And as for Nayru's love, it flashes when it's nearly spent and he can still get frozen iirc. All Samus has to do is wait til it flashes, then freeze Link in place, and once it's worn of, Link is defenseless and a sitting Duck for Samus' more powerful; attacks (like the wavebuster). So much for infinite invincibilty:p

And despite being called the fierce Deity, he's hardly a god in the game and can still be felled, and his sword hjas gaping holes that Samus can aim through so it's a pathetic shield.

As for shielding Samus' ice and plasma beams, I'm not sure if he can reflect all ice attacks with the mirror shield and it might just be specific to Twinrova (I'll have to check this myself).

And if we are going to be 'realistic' about this, then Link is screwed because guess what, Magic doesn't exist. There goes half of Links inventory then.
 

Crimson)S(hadow

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ok yes... bring it... lets get realistic about this.... link's magic is not there so all he has is his sword and shield... but samus's suit doesnt exist either because SHE DOES NOT HAVE eNOUGH MASS TO BRING OUT ALL THAT ENERGY IN HER CANNON -_-
 

Creo

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I am probably done with this today but if this was realistic, Link would have a lot of his inventory...much over half. Samus would not have anything due to we can't create that technology. Example, we can't become morph balls. Impossible. I tried putting my two cents worth and if you guys counter it...oh well.
 

LukeFonFabre

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That's why the realistic arguement is flawed, both character shave their fair share of physic and reality defying abilities, and to make this a fair fight both characters should be able to be able to fulfill their full potential, which means disregarding the restrainst of realism alltogether.

And I'm pretty sure quite a bit of Link's inventory falls under unrealistic terms as well.
 

Ronike

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Ok, we should be realistic only to a point. Anything they have in game they have, even if it doesnt exist in real life, so thats a stupid argument. Luke, I agree with you about the gauntlets, cause if they made link always stronger, why arent his attacks stronger? However, you are wrong about Nayru's love, it would be infinite to a point. If Link was careful, it would last for 108 days (all the bottles dont overlap, so it sounds like 6 is the most he can get and 6*18=108). Now that may seem long enough for Link to win, but Nayru's love doesnt prevent Link from being effected by recoil or effect (ie freezing). So Samus could just keep Link frozen from a distance for that length of time. More to come later.
 

Crimson)S(hadow

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what difference is there between magic and sci fi? by the time samus's ice shot is even still travenling to link, that would be ample time to reflect it with mirror shield or simply cast another spell... god... and link can freeze samus too

you are judging fierce diety soley on his game mechanics, proving he is not as all powerful as he is described, but if so, then samus is less mobile. play prime or echoes; even if samus is trying to scroll her veiw down to target link as he rolls to her, if she is hit hard her veiw will become blurry for a while and her veiw will automatically reset to the middle of the screen.
Will you please stop changing from realistic to gameplay scenario? Should you chose the gameplay scenario where magic exists, then link would be far more mobile compared to Samus's gameplay. You aren't even talking about from which game the gameplay is based on. If everything is real and the only things allowed were things that actually existed, then link would still have his sword while samus has nothing. You keep exaggerating samus's morph ball speed, but u need to take into account that she gets much smaller, and i've done the MATH and her top speed is less then 13 miles per hour.

By using the granite stone as a reference of link's power, comparing its weight to the lighter blocks of the great pyramid, and using that as Link's sword swing strength, I have made evidence of how strong link potentially is. Since simple creatures with teeth in the metroid series are able to damage samus quite a bit, the pressure, speed, and sheer power of a single sword strike from Link would be the end of samus and any of her suits. There is no measurement for samus's power, so we can only compare the damage from her creatures and what type of metal she's using to the things link is using... If there is no reference then we can keep saying "link is stronger....samus is stronger.... Link's so and so is stronger" and not get anywhere.

Samus's technology is more energy rather then matter, which means that the mirror shield would be able to reflect it. The only thing acceptable in Samus' arsenal that wouldn't be reflected by the miror shield is her missles.

Link's masks allow him to avoid many things that the human must eventually do, such as sleeping. Samus needs to sleep sooner or later, but Link can fight 24/7 365 because of the all night's mask and all his bottles of chateau milk.

The inverted song of time thing we're still waiting for the creator of this thread to approve or dissaprove it, but naryu's love would render link invincible to samus's attacks. Ok, link gets arrogant and lets her freeze him then shoot him, but one glass of chateau milk and he's back full health with infinite mana, then he uses naryu's love again. His sword slashes should really be strong, and he's also very moble. He can run, walk, roll, sidestep, backflip, fly, and swim. Samus can only walk at a limited pace, jump twice and sidestep relatively short distances. If you compare the metroid terrain to Link's terrain, you realise that Link's sidesteps cover more ground, and are also quicker.

Imagine you turn on the game metroid echoes, and Link is standing in front of you. You try to charge but by the time u charge he's already rolled to you and is doing the sword thrust while shielding, which is very low, You keep trying to scroll down but with each swipe, Link makes ur vision blurry and also resets your vision to the middle of the screen. You try to scroll down again but your vision keeps resetting. Pretty soon he's got some blue crystal around him... and he drinks milk in your face. You look at huge chunks of health just going away. You try to morph into a ball but link has the option of using the giants mask and getting away (it would be like a rolling ant trying to keep up with a jogging human -_-) You are forced to watch that big sword going in and out of you, and you apparently like it... jk

If this is realistic and you exaggerate samus's mobility compared to her gameplay, it would make even more sense if you applied Link's potential unexaggerated strength to his sword swing.
 

Creo

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That ended the conversationg there. Link would don the Giants Mask, step on Samus and kill her. She can't avoid a foot that big. End of story...Link wins.
 

LukeFonFabre

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As I said, I've decided to leave the realism out of it and allow both characters to use their full potential. So characters and their abilities are judged on what they are able to do in game rather thamn what they may or may not be able to do in a realistic environment. I appologize for bringing it up.

And the golden gauntlets don't increase Link's strength with a sword. Give all the 'proof' you want, in the game Link without the gauntlets does the same damage with his sword as he does with them. It's an inconsistencey in the game sure, but seeing as the game doesn't give any evidence that the gauntlets do increase his sword power, then we can't assume that they do. It's called common sense.

Technically, both are equally mobile, so we should probably leave it that they are equal (I may have been exxagerating Samus' mobility somewhat, I'll accept that). However, she still has the speed booster ability, which makes her cover ground efficiently.

And if Samus used the wavebuster on Link while he was frozen, he'd effectively be killed. A fairy would revive him, but in your scenario all his bottles are chateau Romani, so he's screwed himself. Though realistically I think a couple of the bottles dedicated to fairys rather than have everything filled with milk.

As for Links sword swings, yes they would hurt her, but she's wearing armour so it's not like one or two hits would fell her. Not to mention she gets a lot of energy tanks so it'd take quite a few hits until she starts getting into critical health.

And Samus could avoid Link if he put on the giants mask, heck he'd have trouble seeing her for one, not to mention he's just one big target making it easy for Samus to hit him. Samus has taken down her fair share of giant enemies, it's not like it's a concept she's unfamiliar with.
 

Creo

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Yes she has before and I am aware with that but don't give me it would be hard to see her and her blasts or whatever would feel like chicken scratch to him. She would lose their...except it.
Also, I would take it the Great Fairy Sword would do a lot of damage to Samus considering it is the most powerful sword, then Biggorons sword.
 

LukeFonFabre

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I said it'd be hard to see her, not impossible. And it would be hard to see her, she's much smaller than him so there would be times where she would escape his vision. Samus is still able to hurt bigger enemies than her sufficiently, and Link doesn't get any tougher when he gets giant surprisingly.

The fairy's sword would be Links prime weapon of choice, especially as he can use it in one hand as an adult if SC3 is accurate (though he doesn't have to use that ugly shield with it). It'd do more damage, but it wouldn't kill that fast.
 

Creo

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Well technically, we don't know if he gets stronger or not. Take to notice that he fights a giant which probably has more defense meaning we can't tell but asumption would go as yes.
 

LukeFonFabre

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I meant durability wise, though agreed it's not something that's easy to figure out, seeing as you'd have to get hit by Twinmold in normal form then compare, but he flies too far above you to hit iirc. Still, Samus does have weapons that would hurt bigger enemies, so he isn't invulnerable to her attacks.
 

DarkWolf123

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You guys, Crimson has enough evidence that link wins, its over, link has just to many masks and items, LINK BEASTS ALL. And im not just saying this cause im a link fan, i mean did u read what Crimson Shadow wrote? Is that not enough evidence that link would beat anyone?
 

Creo

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Okay he repeated everything I said except the fact he is trying to become Newton JR. Even the other people can tell you that. I started this way before him.
 

LukeFonFabre

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To be honest, while I still think Samus could win this fight, I'm much less certain about it and they are a lot mor evened out than I thought because of some of Crimson and Creo's points (some I strongly disagree on though). I don't think Link can beat absolutely anyone and I still feel Samus would win this fight, but I'll concede victory to Link for now. I might return if someone else picks up Samus' side, but otherwise I'm holding on until the next character match up.

Well played guys:)
 

Creo

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As same as you LFF. I will abandon till some other people that haven't been start or we switch debate characters...until then, peace.>_<
 

Wiseguy

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Samus wins. I can't believe there is even a debate...

We're talking about Samus Aran, the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy. Her chozo infused blood gives her inhanced strength and agility. Her futuristic suit packs enough fire power (super missiles and power bombs in particular) to take down foes like a Super Space Pirate, Meta Ridley, Mother Brain, Metroid Prime and the Ing Emperor.

Link is nothing to scoff at either (his master sword and bomb arrows in particular could compromise Samus' armour) but as skilled Prime fans know, Samus' dodge is nimble enough to avoid almost all close range attacks and all but the most lightning fast of ranged attacks.
Not to mention her scew attack (which can vaporize most enemies on cantact) or her ultra-mobile morph ball.

It doesn't really matter which Link you are talking about. I can't see a dude with a piece of sharp metal as his primary weapon taking out Samus' plentiful health before she can send a few supermissiles and powerbombs his way. Ever if you throw in factors like the fierce diety or giant masks - Samus has still taken down bigger and more deadly foes.

On an unrelated note: I nominate Captain Falcon.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw
 

LukeFonFabre

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After todays brawl update, I'm tempted to nominate Wario. That Wario Waft move looks like it could be pretty devastating:dizzy:
 

Creo

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I agree. I got a whole bunch of stuff for the Green Machine to win. I have done this before with someone and don't mind to do it again.
 

Gypsy Lee

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Why are all the debaters who took Link's side extremely biased? Those who thought Samus should win were fair and they put their fanboyism aside. Samus should of won by a long shot.

Okay, someone comes to fight me in a field... They have a sword, I have a gun. They try to charge at me, I will fukcing shoot them, they will die. They try to conjure magic or drink milk or whatever, I will fukcing shoot them, they will die. Nuff said. Samus wins.
 

Kada

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I'm with Gypsy on this one too. Don't be so quick to move on, Link fans, the Samus fans are still here too.

The fact is, Samus and Link have a technology difference that is much to large to even make the fight a fair one. Whatever Link does, no matter how big he is, or how he goes about doing it, the Chozo have made defenses for something a million times more advanced, that anyone on Link's world wouldn't even be able to begin to dream about. Link's hammer would hardly dent Samus, she's been pounded on by Rock Golems, massive Space Pirates, and plenty of other unruly giants. Pretty much any blade that Link can get his hands on would also be fairly useless, since Samus is taking on swords from her own time period, which are so much more refined and effective, almost all the time. I'm not so sure that Link's magic would be particularily effective either. Din's fire? Samus explores areas of planets that would be just as hot, if not even more, and survives just fine. Sure, even if Link does manage to teleport behind Samus, it doesn't really help. He's behind Samus, but he STILL can't do anything about it.

Also, do remember. We're not taking into account Invincibility OR Time travel. Why? Because MasterFox told us not to. Also, why are we taking into account reality and physics? If we were talking about reality, we wouldn't even be HAVING this debate, since, both these characters don't actually exist.

As much as I love Link, there's just absolutely no way that he'd ever be able to beat Samus in a fight.
 

DarkWolf123

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oh ok if u guys still got more to debate about then go ahead but i still think llink would win by a long shot... i mean link just has too many masks and good magic to lose, but then again samus has a hella've alot of weapons that are far more high tech then links.

EDIT: I don't know right now im neutral.
 

SSBMasterFox

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Sorry for being gone for so long, the comp at this house wasn't readily available. Crimson)S(hadow, QUIT POSTING MULTIPLE TIMES IN A ROW, plz. We don't want the thread to get locked! Go read the PM I sent you.

I thought it would be obvious, but glitches and game mechanics don't count. No stacking items. (MM Link has X bottles, OoT Link has Y bottles. Debate Link does not have X+Y bottles, only the larger amount)

The Fierce DIETY is a god, -NOT Link- while he's wearing the mask. Hence his inevitable ability to DIE.

True, no screwing with time. This would allow a character to always win by default, which isn't fair.

I have a small argument, but I need to know for sure: Who made the Master Sword?

I'm proposing a new rule, but I'm not sure if it's fair for Link. The rule would, if it gets made, say that even though characters can have skills from more than one game, they can't mix those skills. This would prevent Link from being invincible for three days. I happen to think it needs to be done, but flame the idea if you don't like it.

I'll add more in a minute, with my EDIT BUTTON, certain someone with a )S( in his name...

I need to go back and read the stuff that I missed.
 

LukeFonFabre

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For your question about the master sword, it's hard to say as it's never stated. My guess that it was created by the Goddess' as one of it's main functions was as the key to the sacred realm, which they created.
 

SSBMasterFox

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I was thinkin' the goddesses probably made it, and did you notice how in TP, the Master Sword hasn't rusted or 'aged' or worn down by rain or anything like that, after ALL THOSE YEARS? I mean, even the Temple of Time was a wreck, but the Master Sword was completely intact.

My argument is that the Master Sword can't break. If anyone finds an instant in the story where the Master Sword has broken, post it, please.

Now, if the Master Sword can't break, it would still just bounce off of Samus's armor. However, game mechanics not included, the Golden Gauntlets would make Link very, very, VERY strong. IMHO, Link could cut through Samus's armor with that item combo, and since those items are from the same game, no item rules are broken.

Of course, Link still has to get close to Samus...

Thoughts?

I'm gonna make that item-skill-mixing rule if no one objects by the next 2 pages. My pages are set to 40 posts per page, so by post #240, or sooner if it's apparent that no one will disagree, that rule will be made. (actual time of rule-adding is subject to change without reason0
 

LukeFonFabre

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It's been tempered, but I don't know enough about the tempering process to know how that affects the sword. All I know is that it has been altered and messed with, I don't think the sword itself has been 'broken' as such.

And I'm still not comfortable with the gauntlets increasing attack strength idea. Granted it makes sense, but the game itself doesn't give any evidence that they are a passive ability, and as they're magical, it's plausible that they are entirely situational. It's probably something people should vote on.

As for the new rule, I have no immediate problem with it, though I'm struggling to think of whatever characters it could apply to.
 

Ronike

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Alright, Im here for samus, just lettin everyone know right now.

Now, though Metroid Prime Samus (hence forth MPS) is very strong and the easiest to debate with, I also think that 2-D samus must be taken in to account. Now I myself have only extensively played Metroid Fusion, so thats where I am drawing things from. Metroid Fusion Samus=MFS and she is the one post fusion with even the ice beam.

Now, there are three items that truly come to mind when thinking of ways that MFS can triumph over link that MPS does not posses. Those three are the infinite jump space jump , speed booster, and stackable beams with most importantly the wave beam and ice beam.

Her stackable beams would give her a massive advantage over Link as she can shoot from behind any cover and it would freeze link. The wide beam upgrade would also allow her to shoot in a manner that would be hard, though not impossible, for Link to dodge. And even if we assume the wide beam only extends the beam upward, not horizontally, the rate at which MFS can fire her beam could make the beam so as to be wide horizontally. She is portrayed as very smart, so I would assume she would be able to figure out to shoot a shot to the right and left of Link in a quick manner to trap him, then one up the middle to hit him. In addition, is it possible that the plasma beam upgrade would pierce Nayru's Love and damage Link? It works on SA-X...

The Space Jump basically would allow her to remain out of link's sword reach and would make it quite easy for her to dodge link's bomb arrows. Even if Link could so masterfully shoot the bomb arrows so that they explode just as they reach where MFS is, at the range he would be shooting from, MFS could easily just ascend another 10 feet and she would be out of explosion. And in addition to this, she can shoot down at Link while this far in the air, so she need not come down. So now Link has no way to hit her.

Now, if she got bored of the aerial assualt on Link, she could come down and use the speed booster. Hyrule field is more than large enough for her to build up the speed for it, and while she uses it, she is invincible completely. Link's weps would just bounce off of her in this mode. Now, since MFS is 2D, perhaps she can only speed boost in one direction. But in MF, Samus can crouch to "store" the speed boost effect and reaim and fly thru the air. And once she hits a hill, she goes back to running with the effect and can repeat this effect. Anyone that has played OoT knows that Hyrule Field is very hilly, so she could do this very easily. And she is moving at a very high velocity, so Link would be unable to keep up and do damage when she crouches. So with MFS flying all around at high speeds, eventually Link would get careless and get hit by her. When this happens, most things in the game explode or take heavy damage, so at the very least link would take heavy damage. If he had Nayru's Love on, I think it could be easily assumed that he would at least fly back in recoil, at which MFS could hit him with a couple of shots and freeze him until the NL ran out.

Im done for now, refute/add to my points and Ill be back eventually.
 

Blood-Katana

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you wana play rough SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FREIND
Why are all the debaters who took Link's side extremely biased? Those who thought Samus should win were fair and they put their fanboyism aside. Samus should of won by a long shot.

Okay, someone comes to fight me in a field... They have a sword, I have a gun. They try to charge at me, I will fukcing shoot them, they will die. They try to conjure magic or drink milk or whatever, I will fukcing shoot them, they will die. Nuff said. Samus wins.
yes but fierce deity's link could block the shots with his sword and shoot disks right back
 

Gypsy Lee

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^^That has nothing to do with the argument. There was nothing like this when the discussion at hand was Mew and Mewtwo. Someone could have easily said that Mew could have used *insert random pokemon move* and Mewtwo could have blocked it with *insert random pokemon move* and then used *insert random pokemon move* to defeat Mew, so Mewtwo should win. That's just stupid.

This is a one sided fight. I don't care how fast Link can roll people, because he can't out roll BULLETS. He has no armor whatsoever to protect him from a beam weapon!!! A simple wave beam will travel through his shield (it goes through solid walls), cause severe damage to several internal organs, and he would die a painful death. In other words, Samus would tear him a new a**hole.

Put your LoZ fanboyism aside, and admit he would lose. Remember, he doesn't lose the game for losing to one character.
 

Ronike

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Gypsy, I can decide if you are talking to me or Katana, so I will act as though you are directing it at me. Im not giving very specific details, Im giving broad based arguments, then fine tuning them to the argument at hand: Nayru's Love's impact on the fight. And with the space jump, I thought we had decided that Link's melee weps and Bomb arrows were the only reasonable chance Link had of dealing damage.

P.S: If you are talking to me, never call me stupid again, or Ill have to get real pissed
 
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