Monster Mafia - Game Over! Was the Beast slain, or did evil overcome?

[~ Gheb ~]

So I've mainly highlighted posts from Day 1 that I felt are important through connections or other reasons. Flips tell me that Zen is likely not scum with Scary, whereas there's a small chance that FML is. I feel like Rajam is a good option to pursue and want him to weigh in on several things.

[collapse="Day 1"]Page 2 - 3:

Thinking it's rather unlikely that Scary and Bardull are scumbros playing this way. Looking back on it, it feels like Scary tried to play along with Bardull's sillyness to leave a playful townie impression.
The triple vote on Frozen is not conclusive and likely just random.

Bardull wagon has Macman, Gorf, me and Jerkus on it [in that order] but it's not conclusive either I think as it just seemed to be a random RVS wagon that Bardull didn't even seem to react to.
#109 is really fishy, as Macman has pointed out. The problem is that it's hardly Jerkus' fault to have Scary talk about him like that. I remember scumLaundry doing something similar to me in Skies of Arcadia [or was it Legend of Mana?]. However, I do think that Laundry is more likely to set up a plan like that whereas Scary might have just faked it for disconnection purposes.

-> Bardullslot very likely town, Frozen neutral, Jerkus suspect but not necessarily scummy


Page 4:

#141-#143 is interesting. Though technically null, gut tells me it's a town-tell for FML
#144 & #146 uncharacteristic posts from Gorf. When the **** has Gorf EVER fos'd people before?
#148 & #151 more interactions between Gorf and Scary that are of no consequence.

-> Townlean on FML, Gorf 'connected' to Scary


@ #HBC | Mac what do you make of Jerkus' #250 [the post where he says you and giraffe are OBVIOUSLY buddies] after giraffe flipped town? I have no idea how to interpret it

Is Jerkus' confidence in posts like #265 faked? I'm not seeing it tbh, I think he's being legitimate there, though likely wrong.


Page 7:

#271 & #275, Scary insists on FML / Werekill town. The way he asks giraffe in 275 about FML leans FMLtown again


Page 9 - 11

#342 looks very much out of the blue. Scary promises an explanation, which is presented in #402 and it's meh. I feel like it doesn't reflect his own thoughts on Jerkus but just summarizes the ideas of those people that were already scumreading him at that point. Makes me question scumJerkus even more right now.


#484 still largely applies imo but I guess it has to be my fault for giving the hydra more credit than it deserves.


#641 also still largely applies. FMLs play has been disgusting and his 'connections' to Scary are his only saving grace in my book.[/collapse]

Either Rajam or Gorf's slot should die toDay mehthinks.

Unvote Vote Rajam

Would definitely lynch: Rajam, Laundry, Nabe
Could compromise on: Jerkus, Frozen, FML, Vult
Would not lynch: Macman, Xatres, Joey, Werekill, Zen

@ Xivii

YesterDay you mentioned Joey and me as people you'd lynch. Still thinking so? Why?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

but I said in multiple places that the reason I revealed the Mac/giraffes idea was to get a reaction.

nope, you never once said this

also what? what kind of reaction would you be expecting... how was that even useful

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ugh

i'm trying so hard to show restraint... that post was just garbz

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Me: "oh man several new pages overnight that's exciting"

"WashedLaundry has replaced Gorf"





V/la today

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I may just have a low tolerance for Washed's "Washedness" in-game. In the social, he's dynamite. In a game, especially talking about things I don't think really matter anymore, I find this kind of voracity exhausting.

get rekt no scrubs
wl in it to win it
#2018

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Hey gheb, looked at your post and all the relevant posts... #342 gives me some (not much) pause on Jerkus, it might have been where I was getting the scary disconnection from. I'll probably have a more solidified opinion on reread

In your post though, the only mention I see of bardull / rajam, is how you say he's most likely town after getting to page 3. So I'm confused about why exactly you are scumreading him?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

and like, what exactly do you want Rajam to weigh in on?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Vote Count

1. Nabe (1) - Jerkus
2. WashedLaundry
3. Jerkus (Circus/J) (1) -WashedLaundry
4. FrozenFlame (2) - Zen, Macman
5. Macman
6. Rajam (2) - Nabe, Gheb_01
7. Vult Redux
8. Gheb_01
9. Xatres
10. FullMetalLynch (Rake/Orboknown)
11. Joey
12. Werekill
13. Zen

Not voting: FrozenFlame, Rajam, Vult Redux, Xatres, FullMetalLynch, Joey, Werekill

 

[~ Gheb ~]

In your post though, the only mention I see of bardull / rajam, is how you say he's most likely town after getting to page 3. So I'm confused about why exactly you are scumreading him?

I'm saying that the early connections imply that it's not very likely for Bardull/Rajam and Scary to be a scumteam. But like I said, I have little faith in connections in this game because of how the Scary lynch happened.

Later on during Day 1 Rajam started attacking Gorf who supported the Scary wagon. If Jerkus' poisoner theory is correct it'd make sense for Scary's scummate to try diverting the attention away from Scary onto somebody else. It's interesting that Rajam chose Gorf who was not only a supporter of the Scary wagon but also had pushed Bardull earlier. I think there is a decent chance that Rajam/Bardull-slot is scum with Scary DESPITE the early connections implying the opposite.

Yet Gorf also had a number of interactions with Scary that made me raise my eyebrows so there is also a chance that Gorf is scum with Scary in my book. That's why I have both Rajam and Gorf in my lynchpool even though it appears to be contradictory at first sight.

and like, what exactly do you want Rajam to weigh in on?

... everything. Virtually.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

My wording is all kinds of garbage today <_<

I'll probably reword my thoughts later today or tomorrow in case they don't make sense.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I'd need to re read Sephiroth mafia to remind myself of Rajams scum meta. But Ghebs Rajam direction on a cursory glance seems pretty on point

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Also don't think Gheb as a scum hated maker uses his ability on us only to say he'd compromise on our lynch today. If he was looking to **** a townie outta here with it it'd make much more sense to throw it on someone he'd actively be chasing down. Need to discuss with Orbo though

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Maybe as a town one I could see him wanting to make a scum read of his easier, but making us hated doesn't really seem to make sense long run because barely anyone is scum reading us, and as has happened people are attributing it to a scum action so it'd be pretty hard to sell us as scum knowing that people might take our hated status as even more of a towntell

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Also **** outta here with your crazy indy talk jerkus. We haven't even found all the mafia about that and your already muddying the water with crazy **** like a SK who gets hated for killing. Why the balls would I commit a kill outside of being compulsive knowing that it'd make me hated and that Gheb, FF and nabe have all shown interest in my slot as a lynch candidate.

Not to mention that killing ranmaryu after advocating his dumb town hood all day might get me a couple brownie points for a little while, but he was town reading me right back. What kind of sense does it make to kill a dude who was on my side and would prolly white knight me to the death if he felt strongly enough about it.

Seriously idk what sort of stuff you were hitting when you made that post but the FUD was pretty strong in it. Thankfully your train of thought makes no damn sense

 

[Vult Redux]

@ Vult Redux please give us your reads

I think you're buddies with Scary and I don't understanding why other players are dismissing that possibility. I'm reading the end of D1 like you're trying really hard to make it look like you are spearheading the Scary lynch.

But then FF starts getting seriously considered, and It doesn't make sense. It's not clear what made FF lynch different from scary lynch because as far as I can tell they were similar. Lunching between the two of them looks like it would have been arbitrary, so there was really no need to move from one wagon to the other.

Joey in a similar boat. He answered my question about what made Scary and FF different in the vaguest way I can think of - I don't really buy it.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

i was the one who started the push on you and tried to rally the people to switch to your lynch. As indy, why would I bother to do that instead of just immediately jump on the scary wagon? maybe i predicted that we'd have this conversation

you would do that because as indy you're just looking to get anyone who is a threat to your life out of the game without looking scummy doing it.

maybe you disagree but Im assuming that you view me as a player very capable of reading you as an indy and getting you lynched for it with proper substantiation. thats motivation enough to make a late wagon on me with little opportunity for me to defend myself very appealing to you as an indy. even if you didnt actually think I was scum, youd get me out of the way early before I could even become a comparable force to you in the thread as far as influence goes. Youd be nipping me in the bud so to speak when I was at my most vulnerable

sure achieving a scary lynch was certainly an EASIER prospect, but you were well aware that there were plenty of people who had shown some inclination toward a swap to me near the end of the day. It would have been tougher to get everyone to swap to me than it was to finish off scary but not THAT much tougher, and in many players eyes (not in mine obviously) you wouldn't have looked bad doing it. Thats a pretty solid lynch option for you as indy. There's no doubt in my mind you would have pursued it.

btw just to be clear, if I had a vote right now it would be on Rajam. I think that wagon needs to get some steam goin

I'll be back later today with more thoughts once I finish re-reading all of scary

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I feel you on your read of Zen, Vult. But even with that I don't see how you could justify a lynch of him toDay. He just isn't an option right now, as much as I wish he were.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I think you're buddies with Scary and I don't understanding why other players are dismissing that possibility. I'm reading the end of D1 like you're trying really hard to make it look like you are spearheading the Scary lynch.

But then FF starts getting seriously considered, and It doesn't make sense. It's not clear what made FF lynch different from scary lynch because as far as I can tell they were similar. Lunching between the two of them looks like it would have been arbitrary, so there was really no need to move from one wagon to the other.

Joey in a similar boat. He answered my question about what made Scary and FF different in the vaguest way I can think of - I don't really buy it.

this post solidifies this slot as my #2 lynch choice after rajam

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Consider me voting rajam in spirit until I talk to orbo

 

[Vult Redux]

Been trying to read up on Xatres/Jerkus since that's what took up much of mid D1.Not a big fan of Xatres's arguments (they fall back on AtE for example). I haven't played with him before; if he's newer to the game I guess his play makes sense, but otherwise I'm concerned about this slot.As for Jerkus, meh. Noting the argument that he spent more time defending himself/dismissing Xatres than building arguments. He votes Scary only when he specifically is asked to. Also noted he makes crazy out-of-nowhere claims occasionally:

If you want my honest opinion though, I do think that a large portion of the scum team is in the lurker pile. So somebody seriously better vig one of those *****es toNight.

Theory: Scary was Mafia's only method of killing, making the kill from last Night the doings of a Serial Killer or the like.

His vote on the Scary wagon doesn't really win or lose him any points. Basically I don't really get where support for his lynch came from.

 

[Vult Redux]

I feel you on your read of Zen, Vult. But even with that I don't see how you could justify a lynch of him toDay. He just isn't an option right now, as much as I wish he were.

that's why my vote isn't there yet. I just don't understand why

 

[Vult Redux]

V/LA tomorrow. Basically I am trying to read up on specific players at a time to catch up with the game because I suck at reading. If there's anyone in particular someone wants me caught up on I can try to do that by tonight.

 

[Xatres]

But you know what, I'll go ahead and tell you why you're wrong, Jerkus.

You say that not answering my arguments would be a colossal waste of time. That's dead wrong. If you are town and are refusing to answer someone who thinks you're scum, then YOU are the one wasting everyone's time.

If I'm wrong, then someone needs to explain it to me. Not say, "lol, Xatres is wrong" or "you are ****ing joke." They need to actually sit down and explain it to me like I'm a human being. Set aside your salt and your pride and your blustering and just point out where I'm incorrect. It's all I've been asking for this entire thread.

Failing to answer my criticisms means that my thinking will never be corrected. I'll never move my attention off of your because now not only do I think you're scum, but I also see you dodging my questions. How ELSE am I supposed to react in this situation?

You cry and whine and bluster and curse at me. You tell me my arguments are weightless and that I am a waste of space. But you can't explain why. If you are scum, then the reason for that is obvious. If you are town, then you are the idiotic one. You are allowing my slot to be wasted. My vote stays on you, my suspicion stays on you, and my attention stays on you. You are hurting town's ability to scumhunt to what? Satisfy your pride? Save yourself a bit of work? If you are town, what exactly do you have to gain by never actually answering what I have to say?

You say you want to talk to me about my scumhunting when the day is over? Well, I want to talk to you about how to treat other players with some respect and how to handle criticism like an adult.

But that's assuming you are townie. Frankly, I don't think a townie could possibly be that selfish and idiotic. So yeah, I still think you're scum.

@Jerkus - I'd still like a response to this.

 

[Xivii]

I think you're buddies with Scary and I don't understanding why other players are dismissing that possibility. I'm reading the end of D1 like you're trying really hard to make it look like you are spearheading the Scary lynch.

But then FF starts getting seriously considered, and It doesn't make sense. It's not clear what made FF lynch different from scary lynch because as far as I can tell they were similar. Lunching between the two of them looks like it would have been arbitrary, so there was really no need to move from one wagon to the other.

Joey in a similar boat. He answered my question about what made Scary and FF different in the vaguest way I can think of - I don't really buy it.

Have you read the whole game? I don't think me as mafia would have brought so much attention to our poisoner. What are your other reads?

Pre edit: Read your posts following this one. Please read through the game as one cohesive unit. Also you're probably scum

 

[#HBC | Mac]

this post solidifies this slot as my #2 lynch choice after rajam

why specifically? because of his zen dislike?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

why specifically? because of his zen dislike?

that and his joey dislike

I also am not a fan of his argument that scary and I were virtually similar wagons but obviously im biased and that's definitely debatable anyway

but yeah Ive never been a fan of this slot and the fact that his reads are like opposite mine makes me completely fine with him going

more votes on rajam or vult plz

 

[Xivii]

Ok so Frozen is scum. I saw Frozen visit FML. Seeing as fml wasn't the night kill there wasn't a reason to out this earlier and I thought frozen might have done a town action. This is why I thought his placement of FML as his third lynch choice was odd:

@ #HBC | FrozeηFlame I like that list other than FML. Putting FML in the would lynch tier is odd to me and is what made me think of the above.

If he was a roleblocker, why would FML still be his scumspect after there was a kill? If he was an investigative, he would have FML either as his top scum or in his town reads depending on the result. If he was doc, then FML would be a town read since he protected him. His odd placement of FML in his reads is what lead me to think this:

Speculation is fun though. What if Frozen becomes voteless after making someone hated. That would be a perfect way to balance out that role.

I think Frozen hatanated FML with the intention of getting him lynched today. And the way he is being so subtle about it is why he is scum. At first I didn't think of this because I didn't think the hater thing was a night action since it came after day started but the mod has confirmed that it was in fact a night action:

I thought the hater thing was Gheb showing how much he wanted to lynch FML. If not, then it looks like a gambit by FML to make him look better. I don't see any other reason why someone would make him hated at that specific point in time. @Nameless was FML being hated meant to or not meant to be in the Day Start post?

Day start.

So yeah Frozen is scum. @ #HBC | FrozeηFlame please claim and explain yourself. If frozen doesn't have a legitimate reason for making FML hated, he needs to be lynched today.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

YESSSSSSSS hahaha

 

[#HBC | Mac]

at first I thought you copped Jerkus and got an inno

 

[~ Gheb ~]

.....................

 

[#HBC | Mac]

FF mafia pretty much == jerkus mafia beeteedubs

 

[#HBC | Mac]

FF pretty much claimed not hater maker so he's def got some explaining to do

 

[#HBC | J]

Macman you would say anyone with us = mafia. Stahp.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

@ #HBC | J true, cuz i mean you guys are definitely dumb scummy on your own, but I already highlighted my connection logic here:

what I been thinkin bout FF and somewhat Gorf:
They both occupy similar places in my thoughts this game. A few days ago, they both expressed the dislike of all 3 ongoing wagons (mine/jerkus/giraffes) and Frozen explicitly expressed that he'd wait for a new wagon that he'd prefer. (So far his actions kept up with his words, he hopped on the xatres and FML wagons)

They both moved on to new wagons, specifically this FML wagon. FF hopped on xatres prior and Gorf expressed his reasoning for Bardull

I'm thinking that if ILUV, Jerkus, and I were all town, that scum wouldn't really have a reason to openly dislike all 3 wagons d1. I figure, such a scenario would be a good situation for scum and there's no need to wanna openly direct town's attention away from good ML wagons.

But if one of our slots (*cough* Jerkus *cough*) IS scum, then FF and Gorf making such a statement would be a great way to direct heat away from their scummate while also not explicitly defending them individually.

So basically if Jerkus flips town, than FF and Gorf's slot will seem pretty townie to me, though if Jerkus flips scum I'm thinking it won't look good for those two slots.

I feel like this applies more heavily to FF than Gorf, since pretty much all FF has done this game was express his dislike for the wagons and hop on FML and Xatres, whereas Gorf has been doing a bunch of other ****, many of which give me a townlean on his slot.

 

[#HBC | J]

Macman I think I'm going to re-read the game ignoring you. Your tunnel on us has inhibited my play at least and it's just...bad. Like when we flip and flip town your theories will crumble and I don't really trust your judgement this game. Plus you haven't even fairly looked at us, in your mind, the faintest possibility that we are town and you are wrong and even if you entertain it, you shut it down 5 minutes later.

Macman, try to make posts that don't involve our slot for a bit. Even if you are super convinced you are, there are other members that you need to find. So for now I just request you keep our name out your mouth.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

yadda yadda Mac is tunneling me yadda yadda he's being irrational yadda yadda I'm just gonna ignore him yadda yadda

^ what you always say instead of actually looking critically at my posts / reasoning

anyways relax, I'm haven't even been voting you toDay... you got an entire Day to change my mind

 

[#HBC | Mac]

anyways i got a lil hyped, didn't mean to distract from the fact that zen nailed the **** out of FF

 

[#HBC | Mac]

FFs viewing the thread... start the countdown for how long it takes FF to come up with a legitimate story to explain this

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

lol @ Xivii is this a joke?

I'm ****ing Milan Kolasch, vannilla townie. I didn't visit **** last night.

Im hoping this is just a gambit on your part. It's gonna be either that or someone has a power that can falsify visits.

I really want to believe you're not just lying scum because that would mean I've literally completely misread you this game but that's not out of the question.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

FFs viewing the thread... start the countdown for how long it takes FF to come up with a legitimate story to explain this

lol you are wayyyyyy too over excited at the prospect of getting me lynched