Monster Island Mafia- Game over! Town wins!

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Dude, coasting day one and being allowed to coast an entire game are two ENTIRELY different situations.

Calling people out for inactivity day its just ridiculous. Most content that is discussed isn't particularly provoking and it's hard to have a strong opinion about anything. I mean, content varies game to game but you can't blame people from having little to say early on in games especially when it seems to be a common trend to ***** about inactivity, and then when people post, they get accused of parroting and not contributing, etc. etc. ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't situation.

But yeah, point is, if someone is coasting all game that **** is easy to notice. I'm not saying never get on an inactive's case, I'm just saying such reasoning should be especially downplayed in the early game. If you get to the near-end game, preferably before lylo, examining inactives is much more legitimate.

I'm curious about what "position" you feel I'm in. Not really sure what you're getting at.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Xonar you're not answering Gheb's question. Why pick Circus over the other people not contributing?

I think that your excuse of bandwagoning Circus (for bad reasons), that you're adjusting to SWF, is just you trying to justify your bandwagon.

About your question Scumnar, my scumlist is:

Scumnar
Mentoscum
Kirbyoscum

Don't see why Circus is getting wagoned.

unrawr rawr: mentosman

I pick Circus over the people who are not contributing because spreading the votes won't have any effect, if you have 1 vote on you, you can sit back and relax, if you have 4 votes on you it's a different story. I would've RAWRed for the rest if I had more votes.

Yes, saying I'm adjusting to the aggressive playstyle here is a reason for me to wagon Circus, I want to know how things go around here, and I want to see how it works out. Some people are supportive of wagons, and some are obviously trying their very best to make everyone look scum just because of a wagon (and you took ME, even if Xiivi started the wagon and overhyped voting on Circus) Are you trying to make me look like the black sheep? You're pretty much doing the same as Gheb is doing to me atm.

Why am I so high on your scumdar? I'm not the only one in that wagon, and other haven't even justified themselves, even though I have. Again you're trying to make me look like a black sheep, quit it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Xonar you're not answering Gheb's question. Why pick Circus over the other people not contributing?

qft. dont dodge my question xonar.

Yeah, pretty sick of people constantly evaluating scumminess based on activity, esp. Day 1 when there's nothing to talk about.

inactivity is often a huge reason why theres nothing to talk about.

Inactivity based accusations are just easy mode accusations that scum can throw out easily, hope they catch on, and then simply shrug off later without repercussions. People are far to liberal in using inactivity as a basis for their scum hunting and get away with it like it's a universally town mode of pursuit.

whats wrong about pressure voting inactives though? i dont think anybody talked about *lynching* inactives (at least i didnt) and i dont see whats wrong about prerssure voting people who dont contribute. if you are town theres no reason to *not* contribute.

Agreed with Marsh that Kirby's prolly gg. I'd be down with lynching someone who's tunneling on activity.

probably not your intention but that sounds almost like OMGUS^^

Dude, coasting day one and being allowed to coast an entire game are two ENTIRELY different situations.

this is true but by saying that you also legitimize coastin through D1 which is *not* pro-town behaviour. yes coasting through the whole game is worse but that doesnt change the fact that coasting is bad in general - even if its "only" for a day.

Calling people out for inactivity day its just ridiculous. Most content that is discussed isn't particularly provoking and it's hard to have a strong opinion about anything. I mean, content varies game to game but you can't blame people from having little to say early on in games especially when it seems to be a common trend to ***** about inactivity, and then when people post, they get accused of parroting and not contributing, etc. etc. ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't situation.

and by not posting you only contribute to that "****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't" situation. sooner or later discussion *has* to start and theres no reason to drag this process out until d2 when you can start playing d1 already. that situation wont change if you just sit back and watch other people discuss while youre standing on the sidelines.

If you get to the near-end game, preferably before lylo, examining inactives is much more legitimate.

if you realize the danger of inactives player that late then you might be *too* late.

I'm curious about what "position" you feel I'm in. Not really sure what you're getting at.

and im curious about why you (and mentos) dont get any reads on most players. maybe it has something to do with - well - inactivity?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Gheb look at my post above you, it explains my RAWR.

Just a quick heads up

Kirbyoshi: (1)

The 'passive' vote has switched to Kirbyoshi, the only thing I heard of something that has this mechanic is a double voter who uses his second vote by the PM system.
See here: http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Doublevoter
'A less common variant is for the doublevoter to be able to vote for two separate players at the same time. Sometimes covertly by PM to the moderator.'
and
'Typically this extra vote is not displayed in the vote count, but becomes noticeable when the moderator ends the day with a lynch when the count is still a vote shy.'

Guess Smashman did it somewhat different. Just so you people don't skim over it.

 

[Cacti]

Xonar, I never said you were highest. That's just a general list of people I think are scummy.

Stop talking about the doublevoter.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Xonar, I never said you were highest. That's just a general list of people I think are scummy.

Stop talking about the doublevoter.

Ok, it just seemed I was highest.

Why stop talking about it? It's an active part of the game. The first time it could've also been a passive effect in your role. People can easily skim over it. It's not NEGATIVE for town to point it out, it can only be POSITIVE. Stop complaining.

 

[mentosman8]

and im curious about why you (and mentos) dont get any reads on most players. maybe it has something to do with - well - inactivity?


[/I][/FONT][/SIZE]

Who says we don't get reads on people? FF is one of the best at reading scum at SWF(a large part of the reason he dies N1 so much), and I can get very good reads on people at times as well. I think in my case(and possibly FF too), you're confusing me not jumping on every read I don't have strong backing for and posting up everyone I think is town and scum every day.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Who says we don't get reads on people?

you did:

Other than that, no solid reads yet, which is another one of the reasons I haven't been speaking up much

Unrawr

 

[mentosman8]

Saying I don't get reads on people, and me saying I don't have any solid reads yet are two entirely different things. Not only because the qualifying word of solid means that I have some reads, just nothing too strong, but also because we're only a few days into D1, how do people EXPECT to have good reads on anyone yet? Most of the cases this early in D1 are based on crap evidence and there just to build discussion so we can make real cases.

 

[Circus]

Dude, coasting day one and being allowed to coast an entire game are two ENTIRELY different situations.

My reasoning for telling that little anecdote had more to do with explaining why I like pressuring inactives in general, rather than trying to draw parrellels between the activity of Sharp in that game to anyone in this game. I'm not saying we need to lynch all coasters, but I'm saying that I like to turn coasters into talkers if I can. I don't think pressuring people is ever a problem (like Gheb said, not like anyone's pushing a legitimate lynch right now) and I think pressuring inactives, even on D1, is only helpful if it gets them to be active. I don't feel the need to put pressure on players like Gheb or Xonar because I know they're going to speak regardless. If they're scum, they'll slip, and we'll see it. When people aren't talking, I'm not learning anything about them, so I try to get them to talk. Why should I have to wait until D2 to do that if I can do it D1?

In fact, the more I mull over your argument, the more it just feels backwards to me. You condemn the idea of pressuring inactives on D1 because there's nothing to talk about. But to me, that only further legitimizes the tactic because your pool of discussion starters is so much more limited on D1. Activity is something you can talk about and use as a catalyst for conversation. Even now, we're talking about it and forming opinions on each other through it instead of just scrolling past this thread. I don't know. You have a superhero reputation for mafia—maybe you can sniff scum even when they don't speak. I can't.

I'm curious about what "position" you feel I'm in. Not really sure what you're getting at.

Up until now, you have been one of the quieter players who is not V/LA. So, being a D1 coaster yourself, your defense of D1 coasters doesn't fly as well. Would you disagree?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

unRAWR: Circus

You spoken up, so I've unRAWRed you.

RAWR: Chibo, you talked a lot more in the beginning of the game, what's keeping ya?

 

[Kirbyoshi]

unrawr: rawr: kirbyoshi because he has a secret doublevote on him

Does the doublevote on me make me scummy, Xi?

 

[CT Chia]

unRAWR: Circus

You spoken up, so I've unRAWRed you.

RAWR: Chibo, you talked a lot more in the beginning of the game, what's keeping ya?

busy and stuff past couple days

this double voter in the game works identical to how it did in anime mafia, and believe me i kno... as i was the double voter then lol

since not everyone here has the ability to read anime mafia atm, they get a 2nd vote on whoever they want done by PM'ing the mod. the xtra vote is then on the vote count with no name. This is painfully obvious after seeing the vote count, but just makin sure ppl know its legit.

now UNLIKE anime mafia where the double voter was outted day 1 *sigh* lets not try to do that k?

eeeny meeny miney chaco

Unvote Vote Chaco

 

[Xiivi]

Does the doublevote on me make me scummy, Xi?

obv the part of my post you cut out was the reasoning

the dv on you just made you a fun wagon potential

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Chibo, are your eally voting Chaco when he said he's V/LA?

smashman can we get a votecount?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

nvm i didnt thikn the last vote count was at the end of the 40 ppp count.

Let me catchup and I will post my thoughts sometime this afternoon (school sucks)

 

[#HBC | marshy]

I'd be down with lynching someone who's tunneling on activity.

name names!

3. Macman
5. mentosman8
6. Cacti
9. frozenflame751
11. TigerWoods
15. Chaco

^ down to wagon any of these dudes

 

[Xiivi]

unrawr: rawr: macman

 

[Chaco]

Wow guys, give me time to get back and post before saying "Let's wagon any of these guys!".

Chibo, why did you vote me? That wasn't random. Don't act like it was. No vote is truly random. Easy to kill a player when he's gone?

ChiboSempai earned an Achievement: Chaco's First Vote

Rawr: Chibo

 

[#HBC | marshy]

unvote: whoever vote: macman ^5 xiivi

 

[#HBC | Mac]

guys i still haven't read this **** yet =/

i'm legitimately turned off by ghebs restriction.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

rawr: macman

get reading.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

no leave me alone

 

[DtJ Jungle]

poke and prod macman


whatcha gonna do.

 

[TigerWoods]

Hey guys... er where do I request to be away for 2-3 days >>

*studying

 

[DtJ Jungle]

just say you'l be V/LA for a few days. but give us a time frame

continue to annoy macman to read ghebs post as they have alot of value whether you want to believe that or not

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Sorry for being away... I was at a tournament yesterday... and just so happened to not have access to a computer with internet from Friday night to 30 mins ago (read what I missed).

I decided to go from the start and count the votes people had... and see if I could see a general voting pattern... and came up to this:

rawr: scumfever

"Did you see that flying rock go by?" Vote/Rawr Count:

Gheb: Chibo (1)

Blue Yoshi: Blue Yoshi, Scumfever, TigerWoods, Xiivi (4)

Scumfever: Xonar, Gheb (2)

Cacti: (1)

Chibo: Mentos (1)

Not voting/rawring: Riddle, Chaco, Kirbyoshi, frozenflame, Cacti, GOTM, and Circus (7)

With 15 people, it takes 8 to lynch. Please correct me if any votes were messed up.

I checked over all the posts again, and Cacti never unvoted from what I saw... so is this just a mistake, does that mean Cacti has some sort of character role restriction? Well... I guess only smashman can answer the 'mistake' part... but still I thought I'd point it out since it is somewhat strange...

 

[Blue Yoshi]

sorry... meant to say "is this just a mistake, or does that mean Cacti have some sort of special character roll thing"?

 

[CT Chia]

Chibo, are your eally voting Chaco when he said he's V/LA?

smashman can we get a votecount?

When did he say that?

Wow guys, give me time to get back and post before saying "Let's wagon any of these guys!".

Chibo, why did you vote me? That wasn't random. Don't act like it was. No vote is truly random. Easy to kill a player when he's gone?

ChiboSempai earned an Achievement: Chaco's First Vote

Rawr: Chibo

Just realized my vote didnt count
Unrawr Rawr Chaco
there

But this is why I voted you

(though it said you only posted once when i put the vote)

i didnt kno u were away, u didnt post in here saying uwere VLA

since you were though,
Unrawr
but how were we supposed to know?

 

[TigerWoods]

I'll be V/LA until wednesday or thursday at the latest.

I shouldn't be here now. :S

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Saying I don't get reads on people, and me saying I don't have any solid reads yet are two entirely different things.

no they are the *same* thing to anybody except yourself at this point. i do not know whether those reads *are* solid or not and neither does anybody else. so no these arent entirely different things to us - they are the same.

Not only because the qualifying word of solid means that I have some reads, just nothing too strong, but also because we're only a few days into D1, how do people EXPECT to have good reads on anyone yet?

by taking part in discussion. there are things to talk about. who do you agree with circus or frozen? what do you think about the blue yoshi wagon? scum infected or not? do you not mind the way xiivi and kirbyoshi 'play' this game? of course its hard to get reads on people when most of them post fluff (which is already scummy to me), are coasting (same thing) or just randomly wagon people without posting reasons or trying to take this game serious. that alone is something to talk about, material to argue with to *get* those 'solid' reads you seem to lack at this point.

Most of the cases this early in D1 are based on crap evidence and there just to build discussion so we can make real cases.

which is more than enough reason to take part in that discussion. unless you are scum you have no reason to not take part.

Does the doublevote on me make me scummy, Xi?

who are you suspicious of and why? do you think that the lack of input of certain players is scummy? is posting fluff scummy? if no what *is* scummy to you? will you try to find scum or will you just keep on posting worthless one-liners when you are voted?

guys i still haven't read this **** yet =/

i'm legitimately turned off by ghebs restriction.

no johns

I checked over all the posts again, and Cacti never unvoted from what I saw... so is this just a mistake, does that mean Cacti has some sort of character role restriction? Well... I guess only smashman can answer the 'mistake' part... but still I thought I'd point it out since it is somewhat strange...

its neither a mod mistake not something worth talking about. cacti simply forgot to unrawr so his new vote didnt count either. rather than pointing out stuff like that you should start to name suspicions and reasons. there has to be *something* that bothers you at his point if you read through the thread.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

whats wrong about pressure voting inactives though? i dont think anybody talked about *lynching* inactives (at least i didnt) and i dont see whats wrong about prerssure voting people who dont contribute. if you are town theres no reason to *not* contribute.

this is true but by saying that you also legitimize coastin through D1 which is *not* pro-town behaviour. yes coasting through the whole game is worse but that doesnt change the fact that coasting is bad in general - even if its "only" for a day.

Nothing wrong with pressure voting inactives. I didn't say that and I wasn't trying to. I was simply saying I'm sick of people over tunneling on people who are more inactive on Day 1. I agree, pressuring inactives often provokes responses from people that give us more to talk about. That is a good thing. However, being too vindictive about it and focusing on nothing but inactivity as a gauge for one's scumminess day 1 is just complete ****.

Coasting all Day 1 is not something I support. I'm simply asking people to not let it define their scum hunting and blind them from what could be more important tells. Trust me, I don't want to encourage people to be inactive day 1. I expect everyone to be giving their best honest effort. Point is though, Day 1's blow and people who traditionally will have a lot to say when there is a lot going on can look uncharacteristically inactive Day 1 and get punished for in because of tunnel vision.

My reasoning for telling that little anecdote had more to do with explaining why I like pressuring inactives in general, rather than trying to draw parrellels between the activity of Sharp in that game to anyone in this game. I'm not saying we need to lynch all coasters, but I'm saying that I like to turn coasters into talkers if I can. I don't think pressuring people is ever a problem (like Gheb said, not like anyone's pushing a legitimate lynch right now) and I think pressuring inactives, even on D1, is only helpful if it gets them to be active. I don't feel the need to put pressure on players like Gheb or Xonar because I know they're going to speak regardless. If they're scum, they'll slip, and we'll see it. When people aren't talking, I'm not learning anything about them, so I try to get them to talk. Why should I have to wait until D2 to do that if I can do it D1?

In fact, the more I mull over your argument, the more it just feels backwards to me. You condemn the idea of pressuring inactives on D1 because there's nothing to talk about. But to me, that only further legitimizes the tactic because your pool of discussion starters is so much more limited on D1. Activity is something you can talk about and use as a catalyst for conversation. Even now, we're talking about it and forming opinions on each other through it instead of just scrolling past this thread. I don't know. You have a superhero reputation for mafia—maybe you can sniff scum even when they don't speak. I can't.

Up until now, you have been one of the quieter players who is not V/LA. So, being a D1 coaster yourself, your defense of D1 coasters doesn't fly as well. Would you disagree?

To reiterate, I never said to not discuss or not pressure inactives. Most of what you've said here is simple truism. We don't want Day 2 to be like another Day 1. Getting people to talk is good. We want to force slips. Etc. etc.

Me being more inactive should have no impact on the logical validity of what I have to say. That's like saying "well, since you're being accused of being suspicious, when trying to defend yourself your arguments won't "fly as well" since you're already suspicious, which makes you less believeable." That's a terrible way to interpret a defensive argument.

But yeah, this post basically summarizes my opinions on the matter.

 

[Chaco]

It's called checking the V/LA thread because everyone else knew I was away.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

more macman votes i think

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ok shut up.
i'll read today.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Rawr: Blue Yoshi not really for the self-rawr, but for the role speculation, and the complete unwillingness to scumhunt, even in the future.

rawry: kirbyosh

 

[#HBC | Mac]

unrawrity, rawr: circus

he's been playing wierd me thinks. Tigerwoods can die too =D

wud like to know why frozenmarsh thinks kirby is a good dude

 

[#HBC | marshy]

wud like to know why frozenmarsh thinks kirby is a good dude

he just is

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Just posting to let you guys know I'm alive, it's my birthday today so I won't be posting today I think. Errr I'll read stuff later, not much to say for as far as I've read though, just some inactivity stuff and the occasional multiquote gheb post in which he sheds light on nothing.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

feliz cumpleanos