Moderator Mafia - Now known as Loli Kawaii no desu forums, scum wins!

[Raziek]

lol raz is still sooo salty

jtb would be all over c+h mafia haha

Ruy agrees, it was the most underhanded lynch I've ever seen, regardless of the result.

 

[Pluvia]

Crap my computer might be broken so that's why I dissappeared.

Anyway this was great. When I got to the last day my plan to try and mold those 3 worked even better seeing as though Joey and Kan instantly turned on each other. I didn't really do anything except do what I thought was the most obvious bull**** I've done all game.

This was great btw. Someone tell me when the next mafia game is starting I want to join it from the start.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I've had an interesting idea for a Calvin & Hobbes-themed game, too.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

T-Block, I did think it was underhanded how you got Raziek, but scum lynch is a scum lynch I guess.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Someone tell me what happened since, even now, I can't be bothered to read.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

T-block asked Raziek a hypothetical situation, if I recall, and got town to lynch him based on his answers to that question.

 

[Pluvia]

People seem to take this game too personally. Like everything that happened, me getting annoyed with TB and Glyph for example, was just an act to stop people thinking I'm scum.

You have to look at things logically, even if it got me killed I'd just laugh and then mess with you all best as I could in the twilight phase.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I usually laugh off games and say it was fun, since it was fun to play, though mafia can get to me sometimes.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Most people at the end of the day realize its a game and there's no hard feelings. Though sometimes man..

 

[Evil Eye]

What EE said in the green room, how Pluvia was so transparent, I don't understand. What does he mean with this? How was Pluvia so transparent, even after Glyph's gambit and read on him? It seemed like something eager newb town could very easily do, trust no one. Something I could write off Pluvia as, easily.

Numerous posts he made went completely all over the place. When pressed for a stance he would very often fluff up the post and avoid making a direct response. His reply to you about suspicion of... I forget whom it was, but he went on this incredibly windy ramble about "you know how sometimes you agree with someone but you don't agree with their points but you see their point but you don't agree with it but you kind of get an idea of..."

/paraphrase

That post and others like it, I took one look and said "welp. Scum." I also found T-block easy to read as town and based on john's play in other games and john's methodical disappearance everytime he had the spotlight on him like some kind of cockroach, I took T-block's word for it that when he actually WAS present he was scummy, and so Pluvia's repeated use of mere suspicion of John or attempts to lynch him as an excuse to attack other people made him look exponentially worse.

When I couldn't take waiting to find out the answers I asked RR to PM me the setup. Saw that John was scum. Thought "haaaa". Saw Auspher was also scum. Thought "where is he I've only been reading D2". Then I was sad about my bad pluvia read. Then I was like "wait pluvia's not on this list", thought for one second, checked the thread, sure enough he replaced Auspher.

Does that clarify?


EDIT: Really though. Reread ANY post Pluvia made with reference to John from D2 onwards and tell me that isn't clear as glass. If people managed to reread the game and not see that, I am astonished. Joey and Chibo really did bone y'all in the butt like a bonerbutt, though.

 

[Morrigan]

Glyph, you failed.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

You've got me there

 

[T-block]

T-block asked Raziek a hypothetical situation, if I recall, and got town to lynch him based on his answers to that question.

Uhh... maybe I didn't do a good job of explaining my case.

But that's not my impression of what happened at all

 

[Pluvia]

EE's right, I always fluffled up against John. I didn't think I could win it alone so I didn't want him dead.

 

[Dooms]

And this is why I stopped playing mafia for a while.

Back to nuzlockes I go~.

(Sorry Kantrip. I honestly don't know why I acted the way I did. I hope you can forgive me for my rude behavior, though.)

 

[Kantrip]

Yeah I'm sorry man.

*hugs*

Really, this was a fun game. Thanks to everyone and good job Pluvia

 

[Morrigan]

You've got me there

I'm disappointed.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Uhh... maybe I didn't do a good job of explaining my case.

But that's not my impression of what happened at all

Ok, so what was it, I'm a tad lazy to reread atm. lol.

 

[T-block]

Two things you're misunderstanding here:

• the reason why Raziek's answers to my hypothetical situation were relevant
• the reason why I was convinced Raziek was scum

For those of you who didn't read this part of the game, I claimed VT in my first post, and said "I wonder if scum will try to keep me alive and try to say I'm scum for being alive lol", and Raziek took huge issue with that, saying there was absolutely no pro-town reason for saying such things instead of calling it all null. He goes on to say that he's bothered by it because of the options it opens up for scum.

Here's the first post against him for reference.

Spoiler

So yes, I have had Raziek as a scum read from very early on.

Asking for opinions on threats and easy mislynches: Copying my post on this from earlier: "Yes, the strength of each player is public information. What is NOT public information is my perception of each player. Or Kantrip's perception. Or your perception. How well a player plays is not the only important thing... you need to consider how everyone in the game perceives each player, as that will have a strong influence in who gets lynched and such. What if everyone were to answer your question, and it was noted that everyone is wary of Kantrip as a threat, and considered Vinyl. and easy mislynch? Do you see how scum can use that information? It might discourage a push on Vinyl., and cue scum to look for ways to cast suspicion on Kantrip.". He defends quite strongly that it is okay to ask these questions, and I still think it's scummy to want answers to those questions. But then in 129, he says this: "And I will admit those questions were loaded and antagonistic. I wanted to get things rolling quickly and see if T-Block would take the bait or not", claiming he was just baiting me. I don't believe the statement, as I strongly get the impression that he was genuinely looking for those answers. Even he was just seeing whether I would answer them, I question what conclusions he would have drawn if I did "take the bait".

Reaction to VT claim: I still can't reconcile his overreaction to my VT claim. I'd like to think he's skilled enough as a player to realize that the whole thing is null, and certainly not strictly bad for town (which he tries to claim is the case in 39). However, I'd like to think even as scum he wouldn't react in this way, so I have no clue what his motivation is behind it. I am not satisfied at all with his justification for his actions, and he seemed to dodge a lot of my questions/accusations when I was pressuring him for it. What is more telling about this, though, is the contradiction behind his reasoning for the reaction. His early posts suggest that he is worried about what scum can do with his claim (see my 118 for a collection of quotes), but after more questioning, he says in 109 that he took issue with it because he couldn't see it as a pro-town action from ME.

Claiming to be able to forge a case without doing so: Acrostic has covered most of this. This ties in how he was supposedly scared of what scum could do with my VT claim. He claims scum can use the claim as a springboard to mount a case on me. There are two possibilities here: either the case is weak or it is strong. If the case is weak, it is easily refuted and is therefore nothing to be worried about. In order for Raziek to be scared of the possibility, the case must be a strong one. Raziek asserts that such a case can be mounted. If it is a strong case, he would be making it and pressuring me - instead, he leaves me as a null read and most of his pressure goes towards Kantrip. It therefore must be a weak case. There's a contradiction here... Raziek himself claims that such a case would be weak anyways. In that scenario, why is he scared? It's a contradiction that is explained by asserting that Raziek was faking his apprehension.

Reaction to the Dayvig gambit: He draws attention to the possibility that it is a gambit, and can offer no pro-town reason for doing so. Instead, he insists on sweeping it under the rug by saying the gambit wasn't going to do anything anyways, instead of providing actual justification for drawing that attention.

There's also little things like this:

...while nothing conclusive, it raises a red flag in my mind every time I read it. First, he talks as if he knows I'm town, when this is one of the first posts in the game, coming right after the VT claim that he claims bothered him so much. Then, why does he assume town is going to be forced to lynch me if I'm alive? I think he was even questioned about this later, but I can't find that instance right now.

So yes, I've had a scum read on Raziek for a while. I backed off to look at others because continuing to push would have netted less information about the rest of the scum team.

The first and fourth points have nothing to do with the hypothetical.

The second and third points work together. You guys seem to be under the impression that I asked Raziek to construct a hypothetical scum push on me, and when he did so, I said "aha, so if you can make a push, then why wouldn't you? you must not be scumhunting, therefore you are scum", when that's not what I said. The ENTIRE point of that hypothetical was "so you can make a case. if that case is strong, you should probably make it yourself. therefore you think the case is weak. if that case is weak, why would you be worried about it?". It all comes back to the contradiction in the second point - he stated that he disliked my claim because it gave scum things to work with, but when asked HOW my claim helped scum, he couldn't back it up. The whole point of asking him to construct a hypothetical push was to give him a chance to back that up.

Note in my 531, I never push this point. I instead used it to show that he himself thought any case scum could make based on the claim would be weak. And the fact that he thought such a case would be weak contradicted the reasoning he provided for disliking my claim so much.

The other thing I have to say is well said in this post.

Spoiler

Okay, first of all, I'd like to clear one thing up. There are two distinct parts to my push on Raziek. The first part can be summarized in my 448. These points are relatively weak, but enough for me to base a D1 lynch on. They are basis for strong suspicion, but nothing conclusive, and I never claimed they were. You'll notice that at this point in the game, I'm moving my vote around my lynch pool. I am willing to lynch Raziek at this point, but not 100% certain that he is scum, and my behaviour up until this point reflects that.

Then there's the second part, which comes as the result of two events that convince me that he is scum. The first is the vote on Acrostic for what he supposedly considered a scumslip. At this point, Raziek is looking to be the likely lynch, and the vote looked incredibly desperate. I would absolutely expect town Raziek to be able to see that what Acrostic said was not a tell, despite what he was saying post-lynch. It is at this point that I am 100% confident in Raziek being scum, as voiced in my 538. The second event is his claim of bulletproof. His play did not match that of BP at all, and I know Raziek is a strong advocate for play matching the role, which he himself said in early game. These two have me absolutely convinced that Raziek is not town (although I did think he was mafia rather than indy at this point, mostly because I was expecting 3 mafia in this setup), and that is once again reflected in my play. The nature of my push changes when he votes Acrostic.

I'm bringing this up because I think some of you have the impression that I gained my confidence in Raziek being scum from the earlier points in 448, when that's not the case at all. Also, I've been seeing a lot of focus on the fact that indy SK has will to scumhunt as well, and that indy looks like town to mafia, which is true. But once again, note what the convincing tells were. A vote on Acrostic that reeked of self-preservation, and a claim that does not line up with his play. These are tells that imply anti-town alignment in general, rather than just mafia. Indy SK is also desperate to do anything to avoid the lynch. He also needs to lie when he claims.

So, keep this in mind when you read. Raziek WAS pinned properly. Kantrip, you are reading everything under the assumption that I'm scum, but don't forget to get the other side of the picture - read under the assumption that I'm town, and realize that it's the more likely explanation.

So, going back to those two misunderstandings:

• The hypothetical was not used alone to incriminate him. It was used to prove that he held an opinion - that any case built by scum based on the VT claim would be weak and easily refuted - and the contradiction between that opinion and his actions was what was scummy
• The push came in two phases. The post quoted here, including all the material about the hypothetical situation, contributed to a read, but it was not the cause for my confidence at the end of D1. Rather, that confidence came from his vote on Acrostic, and was enforced by his claim.

Make sense now? x.x

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I gotcha.

Sad no more T-Block here.

Also set-up info for people who wanna know.

The idea was to add a Serial killer into a 9 man without breaking the set-up, mafia couldn't kill in that set-up.

With more people more opportunities came up, for one at 11, I could left scum kill and make town a little stronger.

No cops in this set-up, didn't want a cop with nothing to counter is conclusively. So I made an FBI agent. Doc was for a Doc of course. The Jack of All Trades was to handle Scum a little better.

Scum I gave a switch to all of towns powers, but didn't tell them what was what power. Goon was for balance.

I'm sad the serial killer wasn't around the whole game I wanted to see how that would have turned out for town and mafia if there was a Serial killer.

 

[T-block]

I'd actually like to try my hand at co-modding, if anyone hosting needs one ^^

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

By the way, me and Ryker have a pretty interesting idea for a setup we may run back here if no one else setups up

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Pokemon set-up with a large amount of set-up specific mechanics that will make it extremely interesting.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I've got a set-up, but will be a while before I'd host it. I'm running it past Xiivi now, it's a set-up I once used before (open set-up)

 

[Raziek]

Pokemon set-up with a large amount of set-up specific mechanics that will make it extremely interesting.

Pre-inned/10.

 

[John2k4]

/In for Ryker/Glyph's game.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Make a thread for it imo.

1. Vinyl. - You need to learn the specifics of the game before you play again. You used up a lynch because you didn't learn. You got this in DG newbie game.

2. Acrostic - Sorry to see you die, you were being very competent which made you a threat and why scum killed you, whoops. It's ok though, that is a good sign.

3. John2k4 - You may have wanted to critique but what you did with the CC was exactly what Pluvia needed to get all the pressure off of him.

4. vVv ChiboSempai - I won't go over what I said again, but try and consider what others say and not just what you think.

5. Pluvia - I am surprised this was your first game, you were being very competent in this game very easily. Somethings EE Caught onto but everyone else did do it worked out very well for you.

6. Gustave - I don't blame you for voting how ya did in the end game, you were very close on getting the scum team. If only you read that post closer.

7. JO_OEY - Careful of being too defensive to people, it is a scum tell to overreact to something.

8. Glyphmoney - I am legit impressed. That trap you played was one of the best I have ever seen on this site. Legit play overall.

9. T-Block - Legit impressed with your reads and actions, you nailed all the scum but unfortunately town didn't follow on that last day.

10. Kantrip - You did the right move, but it wasn't scum. It's hard to see Pluvia scum on that last day outside of that one post.

11. Raziek - Man, you got the short end of the stick. Shame you didn't live past D1, I wanted to see the Serial killer in action.

 

[T-block]

...that sounds really tempting >_<

 

[Jim Morrison]

Just get in, we need some OP players in DR to keep the game rolling.

 

[T-block]

Eh... I'll just pop in as one of the eight replacements the game will inevitably need.

 

[Xiivi]

Someone who wants to hosting something under 10 people imo tbh btw

whoever hosts, keep it in this restraint

 

[Jim Morrison]

Why is that Xiivi?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So it keeps it to active people and keeps the game from getting too big.

While I loved 21 person Upick1, it's better to keep it going with people who want to play with active people.

 

[Xiivi]

We had to replace 4 people in an 11 man game, meaning 15 people involved. It still ended up with a deadweight player left, and people were bought premium for this too. It's difficult to maintain that many players and people need to learn to host games that make sense for the current player-pool in this room.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Fine by me if me and Ryker are the ones doing this jam

 

[Vinylic.]

@RedRyu - Thanks, I'll get on right with it when it starts.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Fine by me if me and Ryker are the ones doing this jam

me if me and Ryker are the ones

me if me and Ryker

me and Ryker

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Don't be a baby

 

[CT Chia]

I'll in whatever

 

[rPSIvysaur]

as long as you promise not to be a PR