Moderator Mafia - Now known as Loli Kawaii no desu forums, scum wins!

[Kantrip]

T-block, just curious: Have you ever seen my scum play?

 

[T-block]

Nope.

But I wasn't saying those points were town tells on you... just that they weren't scum tells - which is the only thing I can conclude having seen your town play.

 

[Dooms]

JO_OEY, thoughts on my #416. Do you think that is a reaching case? Actually more important, do you think that Raziek is town?

I don't see the scummy play in not pushing a case on T-Block when he was talking about speculation. He was talking about "I could do this, and these could be the possible outcomes if your claim is true or if you're trying to hide a PR". I don't see how that is scummy at all.

I think Raziek is town since I think Raziek v Kantrip is TvS.

 

[Kantrip]

JO_OEY, since your Raziek town is based on his interaction with me:

If I was lynched toDay and flipped town, would you suspect Raziek?

 

[Dooms]

I'd re-read him. Probably turn up more scummy. Not sure if he'd be the top lynch candidate for me, though. Would definitely be a consideration.

 

[Kantrip]

Alright T-block, I read this:

"I haven't seen anything from Kantrip this game that I would consider a scum tell on him."

And I thought that it meant that you had scum tells that were specific to me. I was wondering where those came from. Did you just mean general scumtells?

 

[Kantrip]

Alright JO_OEY, I was just wondering how strong you really thought our interaction was TvS. It seems to me like it's less of that and more that you think I'm scum.

 

[T-block]

So yes, I have had Raziek as a scum read from very early on.

Asking for opinions on threats and easy mislynches: Copying my post on this from earlier: "Yes, the strength of each player is public information. What is NOT public information is my perception of each player. Or Kantrip's perception. Or your perception. How well a player plays is not the only important thing... you need to consider how everyone in the game perceives each player, as that will have a strong influence in who gets lynched and such. What if everyone were to answer your question, and it was noted that everyone is wary of Kantrip as a threat, and considered Vinyl. and easy mislynch? Do you see how scum can use that information? It might discourage a push on Vinyl., and cue scum to look for ways to cast suspicion on Kantrip.". He defends quite strongly that it is okay to ask these questions, and I still think it's scummy to want answers to those questions. But then in 129, he says this: "And I will admit those questions were loaded and antagonistic. I wanted to get things rolling quickly and see if T-Block would take the bait or not", claiming he was just baiting me. I don't believe the statement, as I strongly get the impression that he was genuinely looking for those answers. Even he was just seeing whether I would answer them, I question what conclusions he would have drawn if I did "take the bait".

Reaction to VT claim: I still can't reconcile his overreaction to my VT claim. I'd like to think he's skilled enough as a player to realize that the whole thing is null, and certainly not strictly bad for town (which he tries to claim is the case in 39). However, I'd like to think even as scum he wouldn't react in this way, so I have no clue what his motivation is behind it. I am not satisfied at all with his justification for his actions, and he seemed to dodge a lot of my questions/accusations when I was pressuring him for it. What is more telling about this, though, is the contradiction behind his reasoning for the reaction. His early posts suggest that he is worried about what scum can do with his claim (see my 118 for a collection of quotes), but after more questioning, he says in 109 that he took issue with it because he couldn't see it as a pro-town action from ME.

Claiming to be able to forge a case without doing so: Acrostic has covered most of this. This ties in how he was supposedly scared of what scum could do with my VT claim. He claims scum can use the claim as a springboard to mount a case on me. There are two possibilities here: either the case is weak or it is strong. If the case is weak, it is easily refuted and is therefore nothing to be worried about. In order for Raziek to be scared of the possibility, the case must be a strong one. Raziek asserts that such a case can be mounted. If it is a strong case, he would be making it and pressuring me - instead, he leaves me as a null read and most of his pressure goes towards Kantrip. It therefore must be a weak case. There's a contradiction here... Raziek himself claims that such a case would be weak anyways. In that scenario, why is he scared? It's a contradiction that is explained by asserting that Raziek was faking his apprehension.

Reaction to the Dayvig gambit: He draws attention to the possibility that it is a gambit, and can offer no pro-town reason for doing so. Instead, he insists on sweeping it under the rug by saying the gambit wasn't going to do anything anyways, instead of providing actual justification for drawing that attention.

There's also little things like this:

What makes you say that? I'm bothered by it because now scum CAN leave you alive and we're probably going to have to mislynch you at some point if they don't kill you.

...while nothing conclusive, it raises a red flag in my mind every time I read it. First, he talks as if he knows I'm town, when this is one of the first posts in the game, coming right after the VT claim that he claims bothered him so much. Then, why does he assume town is going to be forced to lynch me if I'm alive? I think he was even questioned about this later, but I can't find that instance right now.

So yes, I've had a scum read on Raziek for a while. I backed off to look at others because continuing to push would have netted less information about the rest of the scum team.

 

[T-block]

unvote
vote: Raziek

In case you haven't noticed, I really don't care who gets lynched, as long as it's in my pool of Pluvia, Raziek, Gustave, Chibo.

Deadline extension is awesome, but let's continue acting as if we were under pressure. I want the claim by tomorrow, if not tonight.

 

[Kantrip]

Huh. You had a scum read on Raziek, the entire time, you say?

In the time you were trying to focus on others, did you get any connections to Raziek from other players (feel free to share the specifics in twilight if you would rather)?

I don't know about a Raz lynch, yet. I'd need to see the claim. I think we should get that claim soon though.

 

[T-block]

Indeed I did.

Gonna go play Skyward Sword. I plan to go through each player tomorrow and give everything I know in case I die toNight. All that stuff will be present there.

 

[CT Chia]

Alright, let's see...

He doesn't want to read through 10 pages of fluff, and a few pages of play. He says that he will trust people to sum up the gameplay for him. How does he know a scum player wouldn't try to bend things while talking to him? My thought is that his scumbuddy(ies) told him what he needed to know gameplay-wise, so he wanted the town summary of what was going on, to see where their mindsets are. Therefore, he would know who they feel is scummy, and if it is not one of his scumbuds, then he would make a case on a townie, to get a mislynch.

Vote: Chibo

I kind of wish I could vote you right now, but this screams dumb town, not scum. If you are scum, it's the weakest attempt at getting a lynch on someone with fairly paltry reasoning.

First of all, check out what I said about re-reading. I said I don't want to re-read now, there is no time. If I were to replace in and go, BRB EVERYONE TIME TO READ, I wouldn't be caught up for the rest of the day. As new posts are being made, I'm still playing catch up. You know what's important? The present. I can't be left behind, especially when votes are needed to end the day, and In need to be in the current situation most of all for that.

When night hits, sure I can spend some time reviewing stuff on my own since there won't be any new posts for 2-3 days. Until then however, I trust people to let me know what needs to be known and to not lie. I already explained EXACTLY why I can. The majority of players in the game are town. 100% fact, no matter what. That's how mafia works. If someone (or a group) tries to lie to me (aka scum), then the townies can say like uhhh... that's not true, and outnumber them. There is no worth in people lying, because it basically ousts them as scum since they would be the minority.

This is why I feel what TBlock did is fairly scummy. He's basically saying false things, pulling the deceiving card. It definitely doesn't feel right to do that on someone who just replaced into the game, and which was also right when someone else joined in the game as well. Once the pool of potential townies who could prove them wrong was low (between myself, potentially Pluvia, and any inactives), it makes it easier for scum to get away with lies and try to get needless pressure on people.

My point is, it's Day 1, and with only 300-ish posts (probably a good 1/3rd being pregame shenanigans between TB and Raz), why would he be so opposed to reading?

More like 400 posts, and now over 30 pages. And here's some food for thought. There's been like 6 new pages in the last 8 hours or so. How do you expect me to keep up with this new stuff if I'm stuck reading in the past? I can't. This is the right way to do it.

 

[CT Chia]

Alright. What do you think? Should we get both of them to claim now? Should we wagon one and get just them to claim? Should we just quicklynch with no claims?

Why are you so keen on a claim? Not even a claim on someone specific. It's just like your frothing at the mouth for any kind of claim. Claims claims claims claims claims claims.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I come back and two people replace out, madness is this? Amir is da bess for covering for me :3 Day 1.5

1. Vinyl. [1] Gustave,
2. Acrostic [0]
3. John2k4 [0]
4. vVv Chibosempai [1] John2k4,
5. Pluvia [0]
6. Gustave [1] Kantrip,
7. JO_OEY [0]
8. RocketPSIence [1] Pluvia,
9. T-Block [1] vVv Chibosempai,
10. Kantrip [3] John2k4, JO_OEY, Raziek,
11. Raziek [3] Vinyl., Acrostic, T-Block,

Note Voting: RocketPSIence,

Deadline is set to November 22nd 11:59 PM CST. It takes 6/11 to lynch.

 

[CT Chia]

4. vVv ChiboSempai - what are you doing. I don't know. He doesn't want to re-read and he thinks that T-Block is scum based on supposedly using current knowledge without bothering to read back. Will throw computer out the window if he is scum faking. Push on T-Block of all slots doesn't seem like a scum motive. Want to see alive another day.

Read my posts (especially my latest one on John) about reading back.

Geeez people, I already explained this. Especially considering a lynch is due in less than 24 hours and it would take me more than 24 hours to catch up, it would be completely unreasonable to go back and read now.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Missed T-blocks recent vote I amended the above vote count to be accurate.

 

[CT Chia]

In other news people need to stop throwing around buzz words they think they know how to use like policy lynching and trying to play text book play on everything.

People need to learn some instinct. The fancy names only help add reason to cases and explanations on what people are doing really and techniques.

Only two things you can trust: Your instinct, and factual numbers.

In other other news, I don't think I would mind a Kantrip lynch, looking into it more. TBlock still rubs me the wrong way however.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

RocketPSIence and Vinyl. have been prodded

 

[CT Chia]

All I know is someone's gonna get the ol' Nemesis, Phoenix Wright, Spencer combo tonight with the Hyper Combo Finish Lynch.

lol late night random posting
need sleep

 

[CT Chia]

Vote count incoming, also another day extension since two more people replaced in and prods for people to hand out.

However that will be the last extension I will give for replacing in.

Also want to apolegize for not getting this up to date, I got Megaman Legends 2 and I've been at it for a good while.

idk about Pluvia but I'm fine without the extension, I think I've got a good grasp on this game so far.

 

[Kantrip]

Why are you so keen on a claim? Not even a claim on someone specific. It's just like your frothing at the mouth for any kind of claim. Claims claims claims claims claims claims.

Did I say I wanted claims in that post? I was asking Gustave for a reason.

 

[T-block]

This is why I feel what TBlock did is fairly scummy. He's basically saying false things, pulling the deceiving card. It definitely doesn't feel right to do that on someone who just replaced into the game, and which was also right when someone else joined in the game as well. Once the pool of potential townies who could prove them wrong was low (between myself, potentially Pluvia, and any inactives), it makes it easier for scum to get away with lies and try to get needless pressure on people.

Man, are you even reading what you're saying? "Needless pressure"? That's borderline oxymoronic - how do you distinguish "needless" pressure from necessary pressure? Do you honestly think I was scum aiming for a mislynch on a town Pluvia? If so, am I allowed to be insulted that you think my scum play is THAT obvious? Because anyone who played in Housepets can tell you that I definitely don't need to be that obvious.

Why are you so keen on a claim? Not even a claim on someone specific. It's just like your frothing at the mouth for any kind of claim. Claims claims claims claims claims claims.

Because we need a lynch, and a claim comes naturally before that. 24-48 hours before deadline is generally when we'd want the claim to come so we can evaluate properly.

 

[Kantrip]

Lol at Chibo johning about not having time to read and saying stuff about deadline being really close and then saying he doesn't want an extension.

Why did you decline the extension, Chibo?

 

[T-block]

We'll take the extension obviously goddammit

Having deadline tomorrow is uncomfortably close

 

[CT Chia]

I didn't "decline" it, just saying I don't need it. I'm still skeptical I could be 100% caught up in 36-42 hours what with sleep, work, and other activities. It won't change much. And even without reading every post in this thread so far, I feel like I have an ok grasp on the game. If I felt in the dark now, then I would make more of an effort to read, but I don't feel like that at all.

Man, are you even reading what you're saying? "Needless pressure"? That's borderline oxymoronic - how do you distinguish "needless" pressure from necessary pressure? Do you honestly think I was scum aiming for a mislynch on a town Pluvia? If so, am I allowed to be insulted that you think my scum play is THAT obvious? Because anyone who played in Housepets can tell you that I definitely don't need to be that obvious.

Needless pressure means pressure that I don't think is warranted or unneeded.

Did I say I wanted claims in that post? I was asking Gustave for a reason.

Because we need a lynch, and a claim comes naturally before that. 24-48 hours before deadline is generally when we'd want the claim to come so we can evaluate properly.

Exactly as TBlock said, claims are supposed to come naturally. Saying hmmm... Should we push one of these people to a claim? Maybe none? Maybe both? You're focusing too much on the claim, let it come naturally if needed.
And it looks as if you want everything to fall on the claim for deciding between them. It's also not good to trust claims much, ESPECIALLY on day 1 since there is so little game information out there to validate said claims. You know scum can lie and say they are town instead right? lol Just checking.

 

[CT Chia]

We'll take the extension obviously goddammit

Having deadline tomorrow is uncomfortably close

You haven't accomplished enough on your plate in 8 days? And you didn't even replace in lol. I'm here for less than half of that time and stylin'.

I always advocate shorter games. If people wouldn't mind it so much I would host games with like 5 day days, or such. I feel that prolonging days longer and longer (10 day days make me want to stab my eyes with a fork) only gives more time for scum to weasel out of any pressure they may have gotten, stay quiet in general, and blend in better.

What do you want to see with the extra 24 hours TBlock? What do you hope to accomplish with it?

 

[CT Chia]

Looks like it's just Kantrip and Raziek on the chopping block here with 3 votes each, and with little time I doubt it will switch (but it could). Also considering I've yet to vote for either one but expressed my ok on going with Kantrip, things may not be looking good for him.

So why do you need that extra day? To get more people off of Kantrip and get em' onto Raz? If you've made up your mind with Raz and have stated your case for others to read I don't see why you would need more time.

What do you want to do with it?

 

[CT Chia]

j.dH S j.M j.M j.H S qcF XF qcF

Got emmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Kantrip]

If it's between me and Raziek, consider my vote on Raziek for now.

I don't like Chibo right now, but it could just be something about him being way off base.

I would really prefer not being lynched toDay, because of the number game that always comes with disco games. I'll hammer myself if it means avoiding a No Lynch, though. I feel like I was definitely out there toDay and there are connections all around.

 

[Vinylic.]

Alright, I've been proded.

I'm not even good at this. But again, need to step it up.

 

[Kantrip]

Hey Vinyl. Have you read anything in this thread?

 

[Vinylic.]

I did, I've been voted by gustave.

I need check his explanations.

 

[Jim Morrison]

No you ****ing don't, you had better read anything I have even said the past Day because almost all of it is explaining why you and rPSI should die.


I'll get to everyone's questions when I get home (14.00 my time), since I got a math's test coming up, which takes priority. I'm in a test week now, so a lot of free time.

 

[Vinylic.]

Damn, you really are mad lol.

I'm not good at mafia games, bro.
I'll try to manage on why I'm not scum.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

idk about Pluvia but I'm fine without the extension, I think I've got a good grasp on this game so far.

My policy is to give extensions to people who replaced in tome to catch up and read/play.

Regardless if you want it or not I'm giving it to the player list.

 

[Pluvia]

Tbh I caught up pretty quickly. I'm on holiday from work meaning, even with friends, Zelda and Xbox, I still have a lot of spare time.

On a different note I might change my vote to Kantrip or Raz. Both of them are the top 2 scum people on my list right now, and it looks like everyone else agrees with me hence the votes for them, and like I said a bit back there's just something about the hectic way he plays that's rubbing me up the wrong way.

 

[Raziek]

If you had the material to make a case, then why wouldn't you make a case on T-block? And no, I'd highly doubt that you would bother to start making a "weak" case, as you yourself are prudent enough to knock down reaching cases before you allow them to gain much steam to develop, this is based largely on your reaction to my Dark Horse chain-saw defense case in which I pointed out questionable behavior that I found scummy and you were quick to shoot it down and treat it as a scum tell.

Also, I don't know why you're telling T-Block that it would be a bad thing if he was forced to claim. From what I understand, it seems like you're implying that he's town and you are not concerned with pressure voting him to find out his alignment. The last two lines with regards to T-Block getting lynched as VT and outing himself as a PR still don't make sense as they completely ignore any tells from the actual game and are fundamentally based on speculative mechanics oriented thinking.

tl;dr: This particular paragraph rubs me the wrong way. The whole, Yeah I could have formed a case on you T-Block, but I didn't strikes me as you being safe/conscientious during RVS and playing armchair critic instead of directly trying to push on T-Block in terms of a case.

Vote: Raziek

Are people really this blind? T-Block constructed a HYPOTHETICAL situation in which I was to explain how scum might try to lynch him, and now people are acting like I'm saying that I can make a substantial case on T-Block, which is BEYOND bogus.

I apologize for being away, I had a tourney Saturday that I probably should have announced a V/LA for, but did not.

Kantrip should die. I maintain this stance.

 

[T-block]

Looks like it's just Kantrip and Raziek on the chopping block here with 3 votes each, and with little time I doubt it will switch (but it could). Also considering I've yet to vote for either one but expressed my ok on going with Kantrip, things may not be looking good for him.

So why do you need that extra day? To get more people off of Kantrip and get em' onto Raz? If you've made up your mind with Raz and have stated your case for others to read I don't see why you would need more time.

What do you want to do with it?

Chibo, with the activity level of this game, I'll be very very surprised if we can coordinate a claim and lynch before the unpostponed deadline.

Are people really this blind? T-Block constructed a HYPOTHETICAL situation in which I was to explain how scum might try to lynch him, and now people are acting like I'm saying that I can make a substantial case on T-Block, which is BEYOND bogus.

I apologize for being away, I had a tourney Saturday that I probably should have announced a V/LA for, but did not.

Kantrip should die. I maintain this stance.

Then the issue is why you spent so much time fussing about what scum could have done with my VT claim, when there was no substantial case to be made.

 

[Raziek]

Because you asked me what they could have done, and again, provided no pro-Town reason for it whatsoever.

Your entire case on me is substantiated from bogus claims constructed out of a hypothetical situation that YOU created.

 

[Dooms]

Then the issue is why you spent so much time fussing about what scum could have done with my VT claim, when there was no substantial case to be made.

Lol.

This is why I won't vote Raziek, in case I haven't stated already. I just can't see how thats more scummy than what Kantrip has done with his votes and pressure.