Meta Mii Swordfighter Competitive Discussion and Q&A Thread

[RWB]

I have a 3DS as well, but be prepared- my shield button is slightly busted and I'm not quite as good at the controls on the 3DS.

IGN: RWB
FC: 2380-3090-3964

 

[Antonykun]

Ah sorry to hear about your Shield button.
IGN Antonykun
FC 1049 - 0472 - 0051

 

[RWB]

Ah sorry to hear about your Shield button.
IGN Antonykun
FC 1049 - 0472 - 0051

Adding you now...

 

[Antonykun]

RWB reminded me that if a tournament forces you to use Default/Default (or Guest B) 1111 Swordfighter, just switch characters.
Default/Default 1111 Swordfighter is effectively Brawl Ganon just dont use them.

 

[Unknownkid]

Apparently, we can use 2222 and 3333 Swordfighter.

 

[Unknownkid]

Apparently, we can used 2222 and 3333 Swordfighter at Apex.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I figured you could use some company so I picked up SwordFighter rocking a 2222/1222 as my 7th main against CPUs

Things I noticed:

-Dat DTilt. I dunno how much dmg it does but it's infinitely better than FTilt.
-UTilt is actually pretty good, comboes into itself and Uair.
-Uair kills early.
-Dair is hillarious (but good)
-USmash is horrible and whiffs.
-Tornado Thing hits opponents up, which is where you want them. It's irritating that it stalls your momentum, so you can't SH Tornado.
-If opponents shield Shuriken they can be grabbed.
-Neutral Air 4 President

If by some miracle SwordFighter is repped at APEX by somebody, 2222 is the best IMO

-Shuriken is a projectile. SwordFighter needs one IMO.
-Dash thingy is a very good recovery tool and increases mobility overall (be it for chases or for combo tool)
-SwipperdeeSwipe works okay
-Rainbow Cape is a nice reflector and get off me attack (and the best edgeguard evah)

1111 works good too, but then you have Stone Scabbard.

 

[Unknownkid]

Dtilt does 9 damage.
Usmash isn't that bad.
What do you mean about the Shuriken Tip? You sort of lost me. Are you saying that SoL recovery is so short that you can follow it up with a grab/attack? That's cool. I didn't know that.

Yeah, I like 2222. I have been messing with all the standard sets lately and 1111 is not bad. Each set has some "use" to them.

1111 has Gale Strike, Airborne Assault, Stone Scabbard, and Counter.
Gale Strike is a wall and projectile. It beats most projectiles (minus Lasers, Charge Shot and Needles), multiple hits at the beginning, and has an "unblockable?" Push at the end. It it wasn't for its Startup and Ending Lag, this move would have been godlike.
While Airborne Assault pack a punch and has a decent horizontal recovery, the move is predictable and leads to SD. If you can, try use this move to read rolls and airdodges. Stone Scabbard as first glance it sucks and probably still sucks but it is quick. You can also Meteor Smash on the way down. Out of all our stolen moves, we happen steal the best Counter - second to Shulk. This move is strong and last long. If you get a good predictable read, use it but don't abuse it. I believe this set is best used against slow,hard hitters.

2222 has Shuriken of Light, Sword Launcher, Skyward Sword Dance, and Rainbow Slash
SoL is a good harassing tool. If you short jump, you can drift back to maximum your damage/keep away or forward to approach. Be wary about using the move up close. I have been told that Sword Launcher is an inferior version of Quick Draw. Sometimes, I can see it and other times I cannot. Skyward Sword Dance used to be my go to Up B. The ability to control your recovery is nice and go a decent high. Damage is weak but if you predict air dodge you can chase with this. Oh Rainbow Slash! Grace of Sakurai gave Swordfighter a reflect and gimping tool. If you know how to use Mario's Cape, you can make Rainbow Slash work. Timing is key! This set is a good balance between recovery, gimping and harassing.

3333 has Blurring Blade, Chakram, Hero's Spin, and Sword Thrust
You know Blurring Blade was really cool at first but then you learned that it whiff the final hit. Dang, man Sakurai really? Best to use it in Air against an Air Dodge. Aww... Chakram - everyone favorite little toy. Smash the skill for a straight forward projectile or Tilt get Setup. You choice. You have 6 six directions to choose from. Keep your opponents guessing and stall their approach. Hero's Spin is the best UpB. It goes the highest for us. It can Kill! and hits both side (OoS opportunity). What's the bad news? There is no bad news except for it is Link's UpB. Do like Falcon's Kick? That's what Sword Thrust is. It also have the ability to beat/eat weak projectiles and it kills (I haven't figure how though). Be caution when using it in the Air. I believe this set is good against those fast, mobile opponents.

Long story short - 3333 and 2222 can both viable for Apex. 1111 too if you are feeling ballsy imo.

 

[Antonykun]

I'm still salty we can only use guest A and not guest B

 

[WeirdChillFever]

SoL has good horizontal control and stays out surprisingly long. Also a good gimping tool and spammable.
Tornado Slash is better IMO, since it knocks opponents up, where you want them.
Chakram is better too, since it's so versatile.

Slash Launcher is great for recovery, and we need that extra distance.
Also good for mobility on stage.
Power Thrust isn't better, since it gimps your recovery.
Airborn Assault isn't better either, since it's too dangerous to go alone take this

I dunno about USpecials.

Rainbow Slash reflects projectiles, gimps in the air, stalls in the air and gimps mobility on the ground too.
Counter isn't better, since RS is so versatile.

2222 4ever

I take 1222 as the non-basic set though, though you could switch Slash Launcher for Chakram if you like projectiles.
(Your recovery is worse though)

 

[RWB]

I really wanna see someone do well at APEX with a Swordfighter Mii...

 

[WeirdChillFever]

DTilt into UAir 4 dayz.

 

[Antonykun]

I really wanna see someone do well at APEX with a Swordfighter Mii...

Frankly I would be satisfied if some one used the borderline garbage default/default mii we are forced to use and win a round, not a set.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Frankly I would be satisfied if some one used the borderline garbage default/default mii we are forced to use and win a round, not a set.

We can use 1111,2222 and 3333.

2222 is especially good and 3333 gives us Chakram and Power Thrust.

 

[Antonykun]

We can use 1111,2222 and 3333.

2222 is especially good and 3333 gives us Chakram and Power Thrust.

2222 is good...on short Miis. Default Mii's have really bad mobility specs so they can't run away to reposition themselves to use more SoL. They lack range compared to other swordfighters with the exception of MK and TL who both have great mobility specs and TL has 3 projectiles and a z-air. Default 2222 Swordfighters have a decent set of specials that they are not optimized to use.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Mii SwordFighter just needs a better jump height to actually reach opponents for Uair strings.

And SoL is to create openings, not to keep spamming.

 

[Unknownkid]

Wait how does Power Thrust gimp your recover? Just don't be stupid enough to use it in the Air.
I never said if one of the move is clearly better. I was analyzing the sets as a whole. Perhaps, 2222 is the best balance set - this doesn't mean the other two are obsolete. At least 3333 is viable.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Wait how does Power Thrust gimp your recover? Just don't be stupid enough to use it in the Air.
I never said if one of the move is clearly better. I was analyzing the sets as a whole. Perhaps, 2222 is the best balance set - this doesn't mean the other two are obsolete. At least 3333 is viable.

If you can't use it to recover, your recovery only consists of Hero Spin and his horrible air speed.

2222 has a nice spammable projectile in SoL, that can create nice openings from a neutral.
Slash Launcher is the overall mobility special, which can be used to flee or chase and of course recover.
Slash Dash can be aimed for an all round recovery
Rainbow Slash has good versality and can help dealing with projectile characters.

3333 does have Chakram and Power Thrust (the former being a solid projectile and the latter plowing through some weak projectiles.)

1111 has the wall that's called Gale Spin, so that one might be viable too, but you get the worst versions of the other specials IMO.

 

[Unknownkid]

That's fine. Hero's Spin is the best recovery and kills at 130% on the ground anyways.
I believe we all agree that 1111 is not wise but I believe Counter is good. There are times where I wish I had Counter than Rainbow Slash and vice-versa.

Anyways, this discussion while simple is good for Swordfighters. It has been a while since we discuss move set again.

So WeirdChillFever, what is your plan of attack? In other words, what is your playstyle using 2222? Of course, I guess its obvious just by looking at it but curious if there more to it.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

That's fine. Hero's Spin is the best recovery and kills at 130% on the ground anyways.
I believe we all agree that 1111 is not wise but I believe Counter is good. There are times where I wish I had Counter than Rainbow Slash and vice-versa.

Anyways, this discussion while simple is good for Swordfighters. It has been a while since we discuss move set again.

So WeirdChillFever, what is your plan of attack? In other words, what is your playstyle using 2222? Of course, I guess its obvious just by looking at it but curious if there more to it.

Bait with SoL, DTilt them in the air and Uair strings or Fairs.

The specials aren't really an intergrated part of the play.
SSpecial and USpecial are for recovering and DSpecial is for projectile countering.
I sometimes do use SSpecial to get in or out of the danger though and USpecial to kill very high when UAir can't reach and DSpecial to gimp or as a semi-counter.

 

[Unknownkid]

Does Dtilt lead into Uair fluently? I know Dtilt send your opponents more horizontally outward than upward meaning they have more time to react.

 

[Antonykun]

Bait with SoL, DTilt them in the air and Uair strings or Fairs.

The specials aren't really an intergrated part of the play.
SSpecial and USpecial are for recovering and DSpecial is for projectile countering.
I sometimes do use SSpecial to get in or out of the danger though and USpecial to kill very high when UAir can't reach and DSpecial to gimp or as a semi-counter.

D-tilt to U-air doesn't work very well as the move has high base knockback and they can DI far away from U-air.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Does Dtilt lead into Uair fluently? I know Dtilt send your opponents more horizontally outward than upward meaning they have more time to react.

It does send them up so you can chase them or punish their landings with UTilt.

 

[Unknownkid]

Bad news guys. You can only use 1111 set at Apex now. No 2222 or 3333.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Bad news guys. You can only use 1111 set at Apex now. No 2222 or 3333.

Source?

 

[Unknownkid]

I am in the Mii Fighter Skype group and Dapuffster (Mr. Mii Brawler himself) post this when chatting with D1 and TO how the Ruleset has not changed yet:

[1/2/2015 1:20:45 PM] {SL} The Bard of Life: he (Dul Legrande- Head TO for Smash 4) said that its too much to put on players to learn the matchup for 9 different sets.

This is post from D1 - http://prntscr.com/5nqubt

"its over guys
[1/2/2015 2:14:56 PM] Dapuffster: "I understand where you are coming from with this. But like I was saying before, its about keeping all characters at an equal advantage by keeping them in their neutral state. By making 2-2-2-2 and 3-3-3-3 legal for apex, this is saying that those moves are not custom moves. But the majority of people see them as such. Then if we do this for Mii's then we have to do this for Palutena. Which then turns on custom fighters. This just causes more problems then solutions. I apologize for this whole situation. But for this 1st year of Smash 4 at Apex, allowing things in this gray area isn't the right call. Apex isn't the place to experiment rules, and this would be an experiment for sure. Again I apologize to you and the other Mii Fighters out there, but this is our final decision on the matter."
[1/2/2015 2:15:01 PM] Dapuffster: the dream is dead, not happening
[1/2/2015 2:15:06 PM] Dapuffster: getting refunds from APEX

It might be not the perfect source information but watch as the ruleset will not change to accommodate the alternative Mii sets.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

1111 is still viable right.... Right?

Answer: No

 

[Swordmaster]

Damn that sucks. I was enjoying 3333.
On a different note has anyone else noticed his ledge attack hitting people trying to recover under the stage and knocking them at a 45 degree angle downwards away from the stage?

 

[Unknownkid]

Damn that sucks. I was enjoying 3333.
On a different note has anyone else noticed his ledge attack hitting people trying to recover under the stage and knocking them at a 45 degree angle downwards away from the stage?

Wait seriously? How does that work? Do you drop the on ledge before someone get to it and Ledge attack? I need to try this or need a video

 

[Antonykun]

I am in the Mii Fighter Skype group and Dapuffster (Mr. Mii Brawler himself) post this when chatting with D1 and TO how the Ruleset has not changed yet:

[1/2/2015 1:20:45 PM] {SL} The Bard of Life: he (Dul Legrande- Head TO for Smash 4) said that its too much to put on players to learn the matchup for 9 different sets.

This is post from D1 - http://prntscr.com/5nqubt

"its over guys
[1/2/2015 2:14:56 PM] Dapuffster: "I understand where you are coming from with this. But like I was saying before, its about keeping all characters at an equal advantage by keeping them in their neutral state. By making 2-2-2-2 and 3-3-3-3 legal for apex, this is saying that those moves are not custom moves. But the majority of people see them as such. Then if we do this for Mii's then we have to do this for Palutena. Which then turns on custom fighters. This just causes more problems then solutions. I apologize for this whole situation. But for this 1st year of Smash 4 at Apex, allowing things in this gray area isn't the right call. Apex isn't the place to experiment rules, and this would be an experiment for sure. Again I apologize to you and the other Mii Fighters out there, but this is our final decision on the matter."
[1/2/2015 2:15:01 PM] Dapuffster: the dream is dead, not happening
[1/2/2015 2:15:06 PM] Dapuffster: getting refunds from APEX

It might be not the perfect source information but watch as the ruleset will not change to accommodate the alternative Mii sets.

I am literally holding back the tears of how sad this is. 1111 Swordfighter is almost unplayable and definitely not someone anyone reasonable is going to use in a major tournament like APEX. I can already see the meta for Swordfighter being left in the dust by everyone because their first movesets just so happened to be their worst overall (the exception here is Aerial Assault, i hate Slash Launcher).

I can only pray someone becomes "Mr./Ms./Mrs. Mii Swordfighter" and can help us push the guy into a better meta

 

[|RK|]

That's a dumbass reason.

 

[Antonykun]

Well now i want to stop thinking about APEX right now so Im going to drop some stuff about Swordfighter.
So yesterday I was playing a few matches with @ArhyLis and he has a pocket Swordfighter. He unintentionally taught me some wally stuff for Swordfighter. D-Tilt and N-air make ground combat really difficult for anyone when they are used together. Add SoL and Cape and you got someone who is really good at being a wall of hitboxes.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

And then the opponent jumps and gets slashed to who knows UAir.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I really don't understand the "too many matchups" argument.

The only reason studying matchups was a thing at all was because there were so few before. You only had to learn the matchups against four, maybe five, characters in Melee, and only one character in Brawl. Now people are freaking the hell out because their feeble minds can't handle double digits.

 

[Greward]

Apex mii ruling is bull****. If they plan on playing the game with customs OFF just cause they are lazy of learning some more special moves, miis can still have the moveset they want because they havent got a default build.
Guest A 1111 as a default is not something the game is giving us but an arbitrary decision they made. They just decided to make Miis as bad as they could because they probably don't like them.
9 matchups? Mii Swordfighter is far from viable with any set even if you know nothing about his moveset (sorry guys), Gunner is just underplayed (although i feel like he's good with the correct special moves, down B 2 is amazing) and Mii Brawler is gonna go XX22 all the time (probably 1122 or 2122). This is no reason, they just dislike Miis.
What a shame.

 

[san.]

"Custom Off" and "Custom On" in Smash mode with a 5 minute setup time limit is simple, but I feel like they make extra rules to exclude certain people.

 

[Trieste SP]

Hey guys I've got great news, got 5th place at a local tourney with the swordfighter. Didn't plan on using him but a friend of mine dared me to. I tested out him a couple weeks back and he is not as bad as everyone thought. Just gotta play him opportunistically.
You have to punish people by using some hard reads.

Lost to a sonic on my last set. He was too fast for me to punish him and I got bodied.
If your'e curious I used the short and skinny one because it was faster.
The custom moves were 1313.

Sorry If my post was a little strange. I'm new here and didn't know how to format these.

 

[Antonykun]

Hey guys I've got great news, got 5th place at a local tourney with the swordfighter. Didn't plan on using him but a friend of mine dared me to. I tested out him a couple weeks back and he is not as bad as everyone thought. Just gotta play him opportunistically.
You have to punish people by using some hard reads.

Lost to a sonic on my last set. He was too fast for me to punish him and I got bodied.
If your'e curious I used the short and skinny one because it was faster.
The custom moves were 1313.

Sorry If my post was a little strange. I'm new here and didn't know how to format these.

*Crosses fingers for potential video*

 

[Trieste SP]

*Crosses fingers for potential video*

Sorry man. Nothing was recorded, it was only a small tourney with only 20 people. I could give some tips if you like.

 

[Unknownkid]

Holy Crap, where the video?
...
...

Okay. Give me tips? Why did you use Stone Scabbard and Power Thrust?