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Meta Mii Swordfighter Competitive Discussion and Q&A Thread

Antonykun

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I now genuinely believe that Mii Swordfighter is a footsie/zoning character. What with the disjointed hitboxes and badass projectile known as Chakram.

Also in all my time with ROB I've praised his down throw to up-air combo/follow-up that deals 20 damage, yet the Swordfighter gets this too and you could even try for another up-air for 36 damage in a good read.
 
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Unknownkid

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Yeah our Up Air is god like. I love it. Just landing the hits is a bit difficult in my opinion.
 

san.

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While the fat Mii has larger animations on swings, I think the actual reach is the same as the short+skinny Mii. I'm starting to think that short+skinny > short+fat Miis in more aspects than I previously thought..
 
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san.

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So it is an illusion/deceptive animation?
Either that, or the difference is minute. The feeling that my range is longer than it actually is does make me feel more comfortable using the heavy Mii, and the extra hitstun helps while the light Mii may get hit out of strings more often.
 

ChronoPenguin

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This would coincide with my own finding.
Using a Tall-Skinny mii vs a Tall-Fat Mii.
The Tall-Fat Mii seems to have longer range.
However my point of reference was Hero Spin.
Thing to note though was that the end of the spin on Hero's spin seems to well not be there? I thought it formed a ovular shape like a rotating disc. If you look on the Tall-skinny at least on the 3ds it blatently doesnt.

What I "DID" notice however is that even though there was no visual hitting the training dummy...
The training dummy would be hit. There was probably a graphical issue in the way its appearance scaled, but the hitbox will scale regardless of whether or not the graphic properly syncs.

This leads me to believe that Hitbox is entirely in height.

What I have been playing with is the idea that a height between Short and Default gives you better range for your D-throw follow up and using utilt for spacing.
 
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Unknownkid

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Hmm... interesting. I want to first thank you guys for joining the Swordfighter Nation. I know it isn't much here but your contribution really means a lot. Now then...

I have been messing with Up1. Apparently, you cannot catch the ledge if you are facing backwards from it. Kind of sucks. Make sense since Kirby and Ike cannot do it. Good news - the meteor smash from the move is pretty strong.

Down3 has good priority and I believe if time right can beat weak projectile.

Edit: I forgot one thing. I believe we can Jab Cancel. I know we can do Jab,Jab-> Grab.
 
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san.

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Yep, jab2 can lead to grab, dtilt, utilt, and dsmash. 1st and 2nd hit of fair at high percents can lead to the same mentioned above when landing with a short Mii.

Short Miis have pretty good pivot running dtilts (which can lead into aerials) and dsmashes. Fastfall dair and downB3 offstage are also surprisingly usable. short hop nair can lead into followups like dash attack.

This would coincide with my own finding.
Using a Tall-Skinny mii vs a Tall-Fat Mii.
The Tall-Fat Mii seems to have longer range.
However my point of reference was Hero Spin.
Thing to note though was that the end of the spin on Hero's spin seems to well not be there? I thought it formed a ovular shape like a rotating disc. If you look on the Tall-skinny at least on the 3ds it blatently doesnt.

What I "DID" notice however is that even though there was no visual hitting the training dummy...
The training dummy would be hit. There was probably a graphical issue in the way its appearance scaled, but the hitbox will scale regardless of whether or not the graphic properly syncs.

This leads me to believe that Hitbox is entirely in height.

What I have been playing with is the idea that a height between Short and Default gives you better range for your D-throw follow up and using utilt for spacing.
Yep, tall Miis have ghost reach while short+fat Miis have the opposite. Damage seems entirely based on weight. It'd be nice to find the exact weight where damage maximizes. It might be slightly less than max weight. Max short+skinny sometimes doesn't have the desired hitstun.
 
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I got bored so I checked out Mii SF. This is what I thought
Here's mah MIi swordfighter thoughts. He sucks **** but anyway

His attacks hit harder than I thought. It also helps that he has no sweet/sour spot. The only HUGE gripe is that for one, his attack range for a sword character is horrendous. His lag is surprisingly bad. Not Ganondorf bad but it's bad. His start ups are fine. It's just the end lag. His ground game sucks which is a real shame since he has such damaging ground attacks

Neutral combo : 12% (4, 3,5)
F-tilt: 12%
D-tilt: 6%
U-tilt: 7%
F-smash: 16%
D-smash : 12% (First hit), 16% (Back hit)
U-smash: 17%
N-air: 5%
B-air: 12%

and others I forgot but idc.

His neutral combo is basic and solid. His f-tilt is best used for strictly spacing. His d-tilt is a good poke and its probably his only okay ground attack other than jab. His u-tilt is AN ANTI-AIR. Not a juggle. The end lag on u-tilt is **** so you'll never get juggles out of it. His f-smash is laggy as **** but its his most ranged and hard hitting smash attack. Use it ONLY for punishing. His u-smash just... sucks. His d-smash is his best ground KO move. Unfortunately, its range is HORRIBLE.

Mii swordfighter's edgeguarding is fantastic and his juggling game is great and that's all because of his actually good aerials. N-air is good. You can use this while moving backwards for defensive purposes. His f-air is a great poke. His b-air... is good for KO'ing but the range is really really short. His u-air is solid for juggling. Deals high damage and it has a lingering-ish hit box. His d-air.... Eh. Sucks. Actually, I can edgeguard with n-air alone if I wanted to. His grabs are straight forward. His b-throw doesn't kill. Wtf. His d-throw is probably my favorite since I can combo u-air off it. Although it isn't as ******** as Diddy's which can still combo at ~400%.

His specials are... eh. That tornado slash is meh. His chakrams are MEH. His up B recoveries are mediocre. I use skyward sword dash because it reminds me of piston punch. Not because it's good. I think it's the worst out of the 3 variants but you're talking to the guy that uses Link's up B 2 because it reminds him of how ****ty Link's recovery was in Smash 64. All his down B's are good though. His counter is very solid. His reversal slash is a reflector/cape which is very useful. His charging stab is good for edgeguarding and punishing plus it has good damage output. The aerial version of that charging stab is dog **** because dat landing lag

I think swordfighter is best played defensively. Although his range is piss, the thing is that most of his attacks are incredibly unsafe on shield. Except for his aerials. They're pretty good though. Mii swordsfighter can rack up damage safely by doing this. His attacks actually deal a good amount of damage. It's just the KO'ing part that's the real issue. And also the fact that he has lag and short ranged attacks. That's a huge minus already
 

san.

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Height: Affects range, lag (large), damage (small), movement (large)
Weight: Affects damage (large), movement (med),

A tall Mii has around 30% weight to match the damage of standard.
A short Mii has around 70% weight to match the damage of standard.

Property shifts seem to be continuous. Just because a move says it does 11% instead of 12% doesn't mean it's that much weaker. Most of non-default Mii's attacks are not whole numbers.

Damage increases scale with initial damage. A tall+heavy Mii's damage compared to default: 14->14.5, 16->16.6, 9->9.3, 6->6.2, 2->2
A short+skinny Mii: 14->13.6

Adjust your Mii's properties for hitstun and movement. There isn't really a mathematically optimal set, but the game is biased towards quick + damaging Miis in general. I haven't looked at things like 75% height 40% weight Miis and the like yet, but there are some good combinations.

To reiterate, reach on attacks are >90% based on height, while the animation for reach is based on weight. Tall, skinny Miis have more range than how it appears. This leads me to believe that there is a place for some of the taller Miis with adjusted weights so they're not too laggy.
 
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Unknownkid

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Huh? Interesting. Thank you for reconfirm this information. Sadly, we might be stuck with Default Mii.

@ Berserker. Berserker. I believe you need to explain how Utilt is not for juggling but Uair is. Before are slow but you need to land/first the recovery of Uair before you can perform another one. It is not like Mario and Diddy where you can perform it continously. Unless I am missing something.
 
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Antonykun

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I realized how awful Swordfighter's rush down is nair does very little to shield allowing for grabs if he's not careful and same goes for f-air. Chakram recovers too slowly for it to be used in legit rush down. This really just means as Swordfighter players we have to play with a stronger defence.
 

Unknownkid

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So last night, I fought my younger brother and I usually crushed him with Swordfighter. But that night, his sheik was frustrating. Normally, Tornado wrecks everyone and their projectile except for Needles. Not matter when I shoot it, the needles goes right through it. I didn't get a chance to test Shuriken or Chakram but don't use Gale on Needles. Good News though... Tornado does kill her above the stage at 140%. Mind you, he is not a good Sheik nor a good player. Once he thinks a tactic works he will abuse to kingdom come.
 

san.

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I'm going to make a video soon about Ike's dthrow->footstool followups. Mii Swordsman can do the same thing, yet probably not as rewarding as followups after uair/fair. It could still have potential though.
 

Antonykun

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you know ive been playing with 1322 Tall/Thin and that is the walliest of all the Swordfighters. Long range and a good walkspeed means you are going to have a good time spacing your opponent.
 

Unknownkid

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So you essentially became a Zoner? Does being a Tall Mii effect the size of Gale Strike?
 

Unknownkid

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I see. Oh well. Any tips on how to use Chakram effectively? I always end up using the Smash Version when I am trying to do the Tilt Version. I can do Samus' Homing Missile and Super Missile with no problem. But Swordfighter's Chakram feels more strict.
 

Antonykun

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I got nothing for actually doing tilt chakram but tilt chakram is a powerful combo option and a bit of anti-air. I just wish tilt chakam didn't get deflected when blocked.
 

Nobie

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I haven't really touched Mii Swordfighter much, but I noticed that height affects the distance traveled when using Power Thrust (Down Special 3): the taller you are the further it goes. It might be good if you're looking to punish landing lag, possibly pairing it with shuriken or chakram to force the air dodge?
 
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@ Berserker. Berserker. I believe you need to explain how Utilt is not for juggling but Uair is. Before are slow but you need to land/first the recovery of Uair before you can perform another one. It is not like Mario and Diddy where you can perform it continously. Unless I am missing something.
My mistake. That analysis is outdated. What I meant was that it can't combo into itself
 

RWB

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Height: Affects range, lag (large), damage (small), movement (large)
Weight: Affects damage (large), movement (med),

A tall Mii has around 30% weight to match the damage of standard.
A short Mii has around 70% weight to match the damage of standard.

Property shifts seem to be continuous. Just because a move says it does 11% instead of 12% doesn't mean it's that much weaker. Most of non-default Mii's attacks are not whole numbers.

Damage increases scale with initial damage. A tall+heavy Mii's damage compared to default: 14->14.5, 16->16.6, 9->9.3, 6->6.2, 2->2
A short+skinny Mii: 14->13.6

Adjust your Mii's properties for hitstun and movement. There isn't really a mathematically optimal set, but the game is biased towards quick + damaging Miis in general. I haven't looked at things like 75% height 40% weight Miis and the like yet, but there are some good combinations.

To reiterate, reach on attacks are >90% based on height, while the animation for reach is based on weight. Tall, skinny Miis have more range than how it appears. This leads me to believe that there is a place for some of the taller Miis with adjusted weights so they're not too laggy.
That's interesting. I'm gonna test the range thing myself as well. If it is true that it doesn't actually effect range, I'm definitely favoring the skinny Mii now...


Tested it by using Green hills striped grass as a measurement. It's true, the range is identical between the two! In fact, due to the apparent initial movement advantage the skinny one has, skinny might actually hit further on the F-Smash due to the single step that you often make as you smash- it seems to be longer, much like the initial dash on skinny.

Very interesting.
 
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Antonykun

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I noticed that when you do SoL, you glow red. I wonder why.
 

Unknownkid

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Super Armor perhaps? More information about Whirlwind/Gale Strike/Tornado. You know how Needles goes through it, so does Laser type projectiles like Fox/Falco's Blaster, ROB and Mii Gunner. I guess that make sense (Needles doesn't though -_-).
 

Antonykun

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I started to play on smash ladder recently and i got to admit Shuriken of Light is way stronger than Gale Strike + Chakram. Before I would defend Chakram to the death but SoL has far less lag than Chakram and is just as durable with more damage potential. Chakram traps mean very little in percents higher than 20ish. I definitely use AA for my Tall/Thin Mii who is way too slow for Chakram setups .
 
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Unknownkid

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Oh really! Good to know. Can you post videos of what you mean about SoL? I still do not understand how you guys use Chakram and SoL effectively.
 

Antonykun

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I wish i had a capture card to show everyone videos of my swordfighter but i don't. SoL is best used like Falco's Laser or (Dark) Pit's Palutena/Silver Bow where you throw it out to deal damage and pressure the opponent. Chakram is like this too if you lack SoL but you can make it go slow for trapping power.
 

EternalFlame

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Since we're lacking a video thread of sorts, perhaps we can analyse these here instead:


These videos demonstrate some of the stuff I talked about on the advanced techniques thread, and I thought it'd be helpful to have a visual aid for them. Anything to help press the Mii Swordsman forward

EDIT:
Just as a note, both of these demonstrate some of the jab setups, and the B moves don't represent my current loadout for B moves. Hopefully I'll get some more matches in the future to show my current setup and how they play in match.
 
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Antonykun

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Since we're lacking a video thread of sorts, perhaps we can analyse these here instead:


These videos demonstrate some of the stuff I talked about on the advanced techniques thread, and I thought it'd be helpful to have a visual aid for them. Anything to help press the Mii Swordsman forward

EDIT:
Just as a note, both of these demonstrate some of the jab setups, and the B moves don't represent my current loadout for B moves. Hopefully I'll get some more matches in the future to show my current setup and how they play in match.
You could stand to use u-air more often as it deals a lot damage. You had SoL and its overall better in neutral except for sniping short hops than Chakrams. Other than those i didn't see anything too bad that is character specific (maybe the rolls are used too much).
 

EternalFlame

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You could stand to use u-air more often as it deals a lot damage. You had SoL and its overall better in neutral except for sniping short hops than Chakrams. Other than those i didn't see anything too bad that is character specific (maybe the rolls are used too much).
I actually much prefer Chakrams over SoL really, and my current setup replaces it with blurring blade I believe. Usually I aim for interrupting with it, but I have to hammer out that habit of using it too close. Usually I'll setup to UAir rather than chase with it, though I should be using it more so I'll try to adjust that. I'll admit I rolled a fair bit, especially during the first match. Think it was the thought of having a projectile that made me want to keep some distance too xD but I like using rolls for repositioning, so thats why I dodge even when theres no attack coming. Think of it as a less demanding pivot with moving back.

but anywho, thanks for the feedback (^^)
 
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I'm using tall/skinny Mii for this one

Jab is good in general. Compared to most of his moves, it comes out fast plus it deals 11% damage if you link all of the hits. Fairly basic stuff. Other than counter (which is also a solid custom down B), jab is one of your bets options against pressure. F-tilt is pretty good. The range is fairly decent and it's relatively safe on shield. It's just the ending lag that hurts. This sort of reminds me of a shorter ranged, less damaging f-tilt of Shulk. D-tilt is really quick, and long ranged. It also has decent knockback so it's good for creating space. U-tilt's range is surprisingly amazing. It's great for juggling and it's a solid anti-air. Dash attack is fairly straight forward as an attack. It's good for chasing down (it's safer than power thrust at early percentages) but it's punishable on shield. Typical dash attack stuff

F-smash has good range, knockback and damage but it comes out very late and the ending lag is unforgiving so I would advise anyone to relegate this for punishing and knocking out only. U-smash.... Eh. It's fairly hard to land plus the ending lag is enormous. This attack will only fully connect if you land the first hit. I don't think you can land the second or third hit on grounded opponents IMO, u-air is probably more reliable for vertical KO's despite U-smash's knockback power. D-smash's range looks really poor at visual sight but I tried spacing this at 1/4 speed. The range seems fine but that's because I'm using a Mii variant that increases range. This is probably your quickest smash attack. This usually would mean that you'd try to KO with this smash attack the most but the twist is that the 2nd hit is actually the hit that has a lot of knockback. The 1st hit KO's from the opponent's starting position at 151% (on Mario). The 2nd hit KO's from the same position at 125%. The best way you can KO with d-smash is through punishing rolls

N-air is great. I get it. It doesn't have much landing lag and it covers a good amount of space. It's not perfect though. The damage output from N-air is pitiful (4%). Also, N-air is unsafe on shields. This attack isn't best used for poking or rushing down in a manner of let's say Shulk's n-air (Which has to be tipped). It's probably better for edgeguarding or running away where in you can do backward SH + N-air. I'm not sure but it seems like SH N-air would look to be a pretty good OoS option but I still have yet to actually try it out. F-air is pretty much my least favorite aerial. The landing lag is noticeable. More importantly, it's hard to get all hits to connect but that's probably just me. Plus if I were to ever edgeguard off-stage, I'm better of with n-air, b-air or d-air. D-air is pretty much like Kirby's d-air which is really good for gimping off-stage although and obviously, it's a horrible idea to try using this on stage. U-air is amazing. It KO's at pretty low %'s. This is Mii Swordfighter's best KO option imo, even when the opponent is grounded. You can combo off d-throw to u-air for some damage. B-air's reward is great: Really good damage output and knockback. The only problem is the range and trying to land this may prove to be difficult. Regardless, you should always try using this move when you're going for the off-stage KO if ever you don't have that much faith on d-air

I'm only going to talk about the custom specials that I've tried out. I don't feel like I can talk about input on Gale Strike because I haven't used it yet. Shurikens of Light is better for zoning than Chakrams because it's a lot more spammable. Use it to force opponents to approach because you don't want them to force you to approach. Blurring blade is pretty unreliable in general. The last hit won't combo so anyone can interrupt the last hit by shielding it for the free punish. Airborne assault would be alright if it weren't so easily telegraphed and easy to punish. Chakrams are really good. Not as spammable as SoL but you can do a lot of tricks with Chakrams. First, they can be used to zone or force approaches like SoL (SoL does it better though). My favorite way of using chakrams is by throwing them for a short distance. With that throw variation, you can do so much with the lasting hitbox in front of you: edgeguard and defense. The short throw variation allows Chakram to last quite long on stage so you can get crafty with that. All the down B's seem solid. Counter is really good. Reversal slash is great for gimping recoveries and reflecting projectiles. Power thrust easily punishes rolls and landings although it's unsafe at earlier percentages. All his up B's are mediocre. His up B 1 is pretty much bad in general and you shouldn't pick it since it's bad as a recovery and as an attack. His up B 2 deals good amount of damage but it's really easy to edgeguard. Up B 3 is pretty much the all-around recovery that I'd use. It's basically Link's spin attack. Just think about it that way

We all get the gist. Swordfighter is best played defensively. Take advantage of your disjoint, and force the approach with projectiles. This is all I'll input anyway. All of these are just my opinion
 

Antonykun

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I think its going to be very important to think about what Height Weight combination you're using for swordfighter. unlike the other two mii's tall mii has legit advantages over short mii with the range increase and whatnot but some huge weaknesses. I might update my Matchup post to include the three builds.
 

Unknownkid

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@ Berserker. Berserker. That was a much better overall impression of Swordfighter than before. Thank you for your opinion.

@ Antonykun Antonykun You can post videos by recording the replay with your phone/tablet then upload on youtube or something.
 

RWB

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I'm using tall/skinny Mii for this one



I'm only going to talk about the custom specials that I've tried out. I don't feel like I can talk about input on Gale Strike because I haven't used it yet.
I'll chime in on it then.

Gale Strike is pretty decent- it has quite a few good sides and some bad ones.

It sets up juggles, whether far or close due to the upward launch. If used in close quarters it does very respectable damage. The projectile itself will cancel out quite a few other projectiles and keep going. Also, it has KO power in the 140-50% area.

The biggest issue is that it is slow. It doesn't allow the keep-away gameplay that SoL allows. Also, it has issues with a few projectiles just ignoring the canceling effect.

It's a respectable pick if you are fine with a slightly slower projectile that has projectile-killing properties(if you don't want to use Reversal Slash, I guess).

Honestly, if you use Reversal Slash, I don't see any point to using this- SoL is a better standard projectile, and Chakram has more mixups for a slower projectile choice.
 

Antonykun

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Hey guys i was wondering if any one you wanted to face off against my Mii Swordfighters. I could really use the experience.
 

RWB

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Hey guys i was wondering if any one you wanted to face off against my Mii Swordfighters. I could really use the experience.
I might. Your Wii U name?

I'm currently at my brothers house and he goes by RealJoke on Miiverse. My regular Wii U nick is RWB(undertitle RWBN00B).

My Swordfighter is pretty meh though, much better as Brawler.
 

Antonykun

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I might. Your Wii U name?

I'm currently at my brothers house and he goes by RealJoke on Miiverse. My regular Wii U nick is RWB(undertitle RWBN00B).

My Swordfighter is pretty meh though, much better as Brawler.
Oh sorry i only have a 3DS and am too poor to get a Wii U. Actually I'm almost finished with a 3DS Stage guide for Swordfighter.
 
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