Mewtwo Patch (Version 1.0.6[7]) Thread [Updated: May 1st]

[Gunla]

Greninjas fully charged shuriken seems to have more startup and its probally just me, but rROB seems to throw the gyro quicker.

Regarding Greninja, his shurikens are unchanged from 1.0.5 3DS to 1.0.6 in damage and attack speed.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

If you have a "side-by-side" method of testing, get a KO Punch with Mac, jump, then do an aerial KO Punch whenever during your jump. Previously, Mac wouldn't lunge forward. Now he will.

There were multiple situations that would prevent the lunge; jumping and not buffering KO Punch out of an aerial was just one (really easy to see) example. Most, if not all, of these situations now cause him to always move forward.

If you've ever seen people get pushed by KO Punch's windbox, it's because Mac didn't lunge forward so the windbox pushes them out of range. That doesn't happen anymore because Mac always steps forward with it.

 

[Zionaze]

Question: how would you confirm Falco's Up Smash linking better? Unlike Zelda's Up and Side Smashes, it's more wonky while Zelda's would have people fall out a lot. I don't remember a time where people would get launched with the first hit unless it was on BF or I purposely spaced it for KO percent testing.

Been testing with Ganon, Mario, and Jiggly. No rage, FD. take this with a grain of salt I tested it caveman style.
U-smash right next to jiggs starts whiffing at 630%

U-smash right next to mario starts whiffing at 652%

Things started to get real inconsistent with Ganon.
U-smash started whiffing as low as 632% and as high as 716%

At first I was going to test JC-U-smashes but distance became an issue.
Before the 1.06 patch U-smash almost always whiffed at 116%+ so isn't it confirmed already?

*unrelated but when I was testing this with , U-smash started to ignite sparks off of Jiggs ears if I was close enough*

 

[Athorment]

I just noticed. When putting down your Name Tag, the game finally saves it. Those with configurations on controllers no longer need to put it again each time we clear All-star or enter a mode. it will be autoselected

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

GIMR is making some interesting claims on twitter. Would someone be willing to investigate this?

 

[Thinkaman]

So the Marth boards are all rocking that dancing blade has been "fixed", probably in a similar way as other moves have been noted.

@ Thinkaman , short of proving this is the case properly (easier to wait for data dump), mind seeing if dancing blade has "any change" whatsoever?
I think the notable example people are bringing up is greninja at low percent now being comob'd by it properly.

(If it isn't changed at all I'll probably laugh my head off, this would be the biggest confirmation bias of the patch right here)

Not gonna lie, it looks exactly the same. Tested against Greninja as Marth.

 

[Thinkaman]

GIMR is making some interesting claims on twitter. Would someone be willing to investigate this?

Deconfirmed. Side-by-side there is no difference.

 

[Pyr]

We are slowly realizing that universal changes have been made to the game engine itself. I noticed this from the moment I got the patch. It will be confirmed soon.

People are extremely bad at noticing differences post patch. Trust me though a lot has changed.

And yes, for those wondering, Marth's side b HAS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY.

What is it? For those who are at work and unable to see Twitter?

 

[Thinkaman]

What is it? For those who are at work and unable to see Twitter?

He's claiming there are global engine changes to hitlag. This is false.

 

[Vakyoom]

hmm i too have noticed a couple nice in-game updates, things seem smoother and prettier and a lot of the little things just feel good. Could all be fake but the menu and other things mid-match feel smoother in general. I'm excited to see the actual changes for the engine though, that'll be exciting.

Can anyone help confirm the zard findings i posted at the bottom of page 21? i know it seems like a lot but that's what i could find so far. This may actually be more fun than nintendo just giving us the notes up front lol.

 

[Zorai]

He's claiming there are global engine changes to hitlag. This is false.

Not to hitlag. But to some part of the engine as a whole. There are definitely differences, we will have data on them soon.

 

[Conda]

I just noticed. When putting down your Name Tag, the game finally saves it. Those with configurations on controllers no longer need to put it again each time we clear All-star or enter a mode. it will be autoselected

CONFIRMED

 

[TheReflexWonder]

A+B also does aerials, I found out. I used a Rapid Jab with Mac at the edge and wanted it to cancel into a Forward-B, but it caused me to buffer a N-Air and then swing a F-Air. :/

 

[Thinkaman]

i think mario's d tilt has slightly more knockback. I can't get a grab automatically anymore.

Greninjas fully charged shuriken seems to have more startup and its probally just me, but rROB seems to throw the gyro quicker.

I just realized that I asked Sakurai to add Ice Climbers, and I said while he's at it buff Korby and nerf Diddy. Now if Ice Climbers are revealed, my life would be complete.

Olimar's Dthrow ending lag has been reduced. Dtilt has more vertical knockback. Dsmash seems harder to connect with the sweetspot. Yellow Usmash range increased. Purple Usmash seems to be more powerful. Sourspot smashes seems to have increased in knockback...That's all I have found about right now.

Been doing some testing on Bowser Jr and I found that his side B spin out has more knock back. In my testing, I went to FD, vsed Bowser with both versions of the game and in the update, side B spin out kills Bowser at 127 - 128% where in the old version it kills at 135 - 136%. Please double check this though. Thanks.

GIMR is making some interesting claims on twitter. Would someone be willing to investigate this?

I think Rob's up smash now has a sour spot. Either that, or this was a glitch or something. Doesn't seem like a glancing blow, especially since it had knockback and dealt 3 damage.
I posted a clip of what happened, maybe someone can make sense of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkLTJvL8i24

We are slowly realizing that universal changes have been made to the game engine itself. I noticed this from the moment I got the patch. It will be confirmed soon.

People are extremely bad at noticing differences post patch. Trust me though a lot has changed.

And yes, for those wondering, Marth's side b HAS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY.

Can anyone confirm if Falco's throw are harder to DI out of and his dash attack has reduced startup?

hmm i too have noticed a couple nice in-game updates, things seem smoother and prettier and a lot of the little things just feel good. Could all be fake but the menu and other things mid-match feel smoother in general. I'm excited to see the actual changes for the engine though, that'll be exciting.

Can anyone help confirm the zard findings i posted at the bottom of page 21? i know it seems like a lot but that's what i could find so far. This may actually be more fun than nintendo just giving us the notes up front lol.

Not to hitlag. But to some part of the engine as a whole. There are definitely differences, we will have data on them soon.

-Yoshi's nair has much less landing lag.
-His attacks start faster.
-When you turn someone into an egg, Yoshi's flutter kick now properly registers on the first hit.
-I believe they buffed his flutter kick (speaking of).

Mario's sourspot on Nair has more knockback

Welp, RIP Diddy.
I wonder how many people will switch...

Meta Knight
Neutral Air Landing lag reduced 20 -> 18 frames

Wii Fit Trainer got some hitbox buffs. Usmash hits grounded opponents now, for example.

@ Shaya requesting airstrike

Everything in all of these posts is wrong.

If you have a "side-by-side" method of testing, get a KO Punch with Mac, jump, then do an aerial KO Punch whenever during your jump. Previously, Mac wouldn't lunge forward. Now he will.

I'm not seeing this. Out of random jumps, I'm always getting the lunge on 1.0.5.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Wii Fit Trainer got some hitbox buffs. Usmash hits grounded opponents now, for example.

Just tested side by side, she whiffed under the same conditions when attempting to hit Duck Hunt. And only connected during precise running Usmashes, which I'm sure is usual with this move.

 

[thunderzap7]

Peach's Down Throw sends at a different angle, upwards instead of just behind her now.

 

[Vakyoom]

Everything in all of these posts is wrong.

Any data or testing to confirm this? I've done Side-by-side testing to confirm the Fair especially and other moves as well. A simple 'wrong' isn't really good enough, ya know?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm not seeing this. Out of random jumps, I'm always getting the lunge on 1.0.5.

Hmm...

Try moving backward in mid-air beforehand, or doing it immediately out of hitstun. There were definitely annoying situations in which you wouldn't move forward before, which is why the Buffered Aerial KO Punch was significant, for instance.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Peach's Down Throw sends at a different angle, upwards instead of just behind her now.

Seems exactly the same to me.

 

[Vakyoom]

Another side-by-side test of Zard vs mario on FD... spawn locations and a running Fair.

1.0.5 - KO's at 156% from player 2 spawn location(Will not KO at 155%).

1.0.6 - KO's at 115% from player 2 spawn location(Will not KO at 114%).

Please check my list at the bottom of page 21 to see if others can be confirmed as well.

 

[Pikabunz]

I think Reflex is right about Mac's KO punch. I remember if you did a ko punch out of a jump, you would just KO punch in place.

 

[Shaya]

Any data or testing to confirm this? I've done Side-by-side testing to confirm the Fair especially and other moves as well. A simple 'wrong' isn't really good enough, ya know?

These are the only things you've listed which are actually noteworthy and not probably just conditional things:
B Up(Fly) does the same damage but it KOs at 112% on mid-ground FD vs 123% in my old notes. Confirmed as KO @ 123% on 1.0.5 3ds! Yay Buffs!!

* Fair has a new sweet spot at the tip of the move(It seems this sweet spot is just the old inside sweet spot being switched to the edge of the attack). Does 1% more damage with the tip of your claws and KO's at 107% vs my old values of 133% with the sweet spot for each version at the edge of FD(This may be attributed to the swap of sweet spots but that's a HUGE knockback increase). The move does feel faster coming out but the landing lag is still abysmal on both this and Bair still. The slash arc is also a little larger when tested side by side with 1.0.5!! cool!

* Nair has less lag at the end, as long as you do the Nair as soon as you short hop(Like old school falco lazer-walking) you can shield as soon as you hit the ground. It was like this on 1.0.5 apparently, w/e lol

---

Now the first one, could be checked
The second one's been noted, but the damage wasn't different from people talking about it before.
Third one seems like the auto cancels may have been changed;

but all three of these, plus the rest of yours are likely better waiting for data dumps to confirm.

 

[Zionaze]

I think Reflex is right about Mac's KO punch. I remember if you did a ko punch out of a jump, you would just KO punch in place.

I would like to 2nd this aswell.

 

[Thinkaman]

Peach's Down Throw sends at a different angle, upwards instead of just behind her now.

FOR THE LAST TIME I AND SICK OF ALL THESE--

Oh hey this one's right. Small difference, but totally there.

Nice!

Any data or testing to confirm this? I've done Side-by-side testing to confirm the Fair especially and other moves as well. A simple 'wrong' isn't really good enough, ya know?

The only 'zard changes I could confirm were Flare Blitz +1% recoil, uthrow +3% total, and the fair hitbox adjustments. All of these were confirmed several pages ago by me and Steeler.

Hmm...

Try moving backward in mid-air beforehand, or doing it immediately out of hitstun. There were definitely annoying situations in which you wouldn't move forward before, which is why the Buffered Aerial KO Punch was significant, for instance.

I know exactly what you are talking about, but have no idea how to replicate it. It's happened to me. I just, can't declare it fixed if we can't isolate a situation where we'd know it happens.

Edit: To be clear, I'm getting a lunge out of simple jumping KO punch on 1.0.5, during any stage of the jump.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I think Reflex is right about Mac's KO punch. I remember if you did a ko punch out of a jump, you would just KO punch in place.

Yes, this is due to the move cutting off all of Mac's vertical momentum he would get from a jump. By buffering KO punch during a jumpsquat, Mac falls right back down to the ground, and the aerial KO punch turns into the grounded version before the hitbox comes out. This is what Mac mains refer to as the jump cancelled KO punch, when in fact, Mac's jumpsquat frames are not being cancelled by the move. A more accurate name is jump buffered KO punch, but that doesn't communicate the significance or application of the technique.

 

[thunderzap7]

Seems exactly the same to me.

Went back and yeah, you're right. Did it scale before? I don't main Peach so I'm not sure. I was playing with a friend (Falco) and it sent higher at about 90%, but I don't remember it sending at a higher angle. Or not as high as it sent, at least.

 

[Vakyoom]

These are the only things you've listed which are actually noteworthy and not probably just conditional things:
B Up(Fly) does the same damage but it KOs at 112% on mid-ground FD vs 123% in my old notes. Confirmed as KO @ 123% on 1.0.5 3ds! Yay Buffs!!

* Fair has a new sweet spot at the tip of the move(It seems this sweet spot is just the old inside sweet spot being switched to the edge of the attack). Does 1% more damage with the tip of your claws and KO's at 107% vs my old values of 133% with the sweet spot for each version at the edge of FD(This may be attributed to the swap of sweet spots but that's a HUGE knockback increase). The move does feel faster coming out but the landing lag is still abysmal on both this and Bair still. The slash arc is also a little larger when tested side by side with 1.0.5!! cool!

* Nair has less lag at the end, as long as you do the Nair as soon as you short hop(Like old school falco lazer-walking) you can shield as soon as you hit the ground. It was like this on 1.0.5 apparently, w/e lol

---

Now the first one, could be checked
The second one's been noted, but the damage wasn't different from people talking about it before.
Third one seems like the auto cancels may have been changed;

but all three of these, plus the rest of yours are likely better waiting for data dumps to confirm.

Yea i wasn't sure about the Nair. My post above should prove the Fair buff is pretty stellar. My other thoughts were the ones i was looking to have help with. Those first 2 are solid though. Just did a double check on both Fair and Up B and ko %'s are still buffed for 1.0.6

Thank you for a more detailed explanation, sorry for coming off as crass or rude before

Edited my post on page 21 to better reflect the changes vs the possible changes.

Thinkaman, I hope you go back and test the Up B and the Fair at least. I'm finding the exact same numbers every time i go back and check those 2 moves for the differences from spawn location, side-by-side.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I know exactly what you are talking about, but have no idea how to replicate it. It's happened to me. I just, can't declare it fixed if we can't isolate a situation where we'd know it happens.

Edit: To be clear, I'm getting a lunge out of simple jumping KO punch on 1.0.5, during any stage of the jump.

3DS 1.0.5 had a few bugfixes, and the non-moving KO punch sounds like a bug (that was apparently a very common Mac experience). Is it possible this was an actual case of one of those 1.0.5 changes that never got documented?

 

[Thinkaman]

3DS 1.0.5 had a few bugfixes, and the non-moving KO punch sounds like a bug (that was apparently a very common Mac experience). Is it possible this was an actual case of one of those 1.0.5 changes that never got documented?

That's what I was just considering.

I know this isn't placebo. I've had this happen to me in tourney bracket!

 

[Shaya]

Yea i wasn't sure about the Nair. My post above should prove the Fair buff is pretty stellar. My other thoughts were the ones i was looking to have help with. Those first 2 are solid though. Just did a double check on both Fair and Up B and ko %'s are still buffed for 1.0.6

Thank you for a more detailed explanation, sorry for coming off as crass or rude before

It's very possible he was referring your post for the general talking about that engine change/twitter thing, rather than your post from page 21.
Seeing as you're very certain and have a means of side-by-side checking, I think the fair/up-b thing should probably be feasible for others to test here to confirm.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

FOR THE LAST TIME I AND SICK OF ALL THESE--

Oh hey this one's right. Small difference, but totally there.

Nice!

Hmm? I don't see the slightest change in angle in Peach's Dthrow. Both 1.05 and 1.06 have Peach throwing the victim up and only a little behind her.

 

[Vakyoom]

Now that you mention it I agree i think he was referring to that as well, these big threads can be confusing. Thanks for the support!

 

[Shaya]

FOR THE LAST TIME I AND SICK OF ALL THESE--

Oh hey this one's right. Small difference, but totally there.

Nice!

Hmm? I don't see the slightest change in angle in Peach's Dthrow. Both 1.05 and 1.06 have Peach throwing the victim up and only a little behind her.

Fight to the death.

 

[thrillagorilla]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but as I was playing Samus, her retreating forward air dragged the opponent with me. Could someone confirm if move's hit connections have improved? Same for up-smash.

 

[Thinkaman]

We already know that Zard's weird fair hitbox knockback assignments were fixed, which changes all his kill %s.

I am seeing Charizard Fly consistently kill Mario from the spawn point of 3DS FD at:

1.0.5 - 125%
1.0.6 - 112%

So yeah, that is a noteworthy increase! Thanks for staying persistent amid the sea of inane chatter; I apologize that guys like you have to suffer for it.

Hmm? I don't see the slightest change in angle in Peach's Dthrow. Both 1.05 and 1.06 have Peach throwing the victim up and only a little behind her.

The easiest way to test angle to to set damage to 999 and hit it. You can compare the trajectory side-by-side easily.

In this case, it's a small difference, but it's there. Probably less than 5 degrees.

-Yoshi's nair has much less landing lag.
-His attacks start faster.
-When you turn someone into an egg, Yoshi's flutter kick now properly registers on the first hit.
-I believe they buffed his flutter kick (speaking of).

Also going to explicitly deconfirm all of this again.

 

[Tristan_win]

I would like another pair of eyes to test Fsmash.

Fresh Fsmash hitting with only the 2nd hit at max distance with Sheik at 0% use to kill a Diddy Kong stand on the edge of FD with no DI at 82%

Now it's 77%?

edit: By kill I mean he would die on the horizontal blast zone.

 

[Thinkaman]

I would like another pair of eyes to test Fsmash.

Fresh Fsmash hitting with only the 2nd hit at max distance with Sheik at 0% use to kill a Diddy Kong stand on the edge of FD with no DI at 82%

Now it's 77%?

edit: By kill I mean he would die on the horizontal blast zone.

Confirmed no change. Training mode Sheik kills with second hit of f-smash on spawn Diddy at 116% (and not 115%) on both.

 

[Vakyoom]

We already know that Zard's weird fair hitbox knockback assignments were fixed, which changes all his kill %s.

I am seeing Charizard Fly consistently kill Mario from the spawn point of 3DS FD at:

1.0.5 - 125%
1.0.6 - 112%

So yeah, that is a noteworthy increase! Thanks for staying persistent amid the sea of inane chatter; I apologize that guys like you have to suffer for it.

Victory for the lizard! That scary 50% increase on Fair knockback without really touching the damage... Glad he has some power back there, i knew something felt off. So that makes it a bugfix from something long ago?

 

[Thinkaman]

Victory for the lizard! That scary 50% increase on Fair knockback without really touching the damage... Glad he has some power back there, i knew something felt off. So that makes it a bugfix from something long ago?

Here are the old Hitbox values for 1.0.4/5 Zard fair:

Frame  8- 9:    11%        45b/100g (KO@ 135%) 361° Slash
Frame 10-11:    12%         25b/80g (KO@ 174%)  34° Slash

Notice that the move is a "reverse sourspot" like Doc Mario nair--the later hit does more damage, not less. But the knockback didn't reflect this.

The knockback values have been swapped (and possibly adjusted) so the the high knockback is on the nominally "stronger" later hit.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

The easiest way to test angle to to set damage to 999 and hit it. You can compare the trajectory side-by-side easily.

In this case, it's a small difference, but it's there. Probably less than 5 degrees.

I'll have to remember that testing method for later. I've tried it a bit more, and I still don't see the difference. But if it's approximately 5 degrees, I don't think my eyes would be good enough to see that anyway.

I've been looking at Samus' homing missiles pretty intensely, and don't see a difference in speed. Both seemed to fly the same distance and flew for the same amount of time, aproximately two seconds.