Mewtwo Patch (Version 1.0.6[7]) Thread [Updated: May 1st]

[EmeraldBaron]

Falco's d.Air seems to be sped up, and it may just be me hoping that his b.air is better, but it seems to have slightly more knockback.

He has changed, his d.tilt seems very fast, and his f.air true seems to finally true combo with down throw, also his nair seems a bit slower, but that's just me.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Falco's D-air is still 16 frame start-up, 23 frames of landing lag, same as it was before. Block-freeze and blockstun is the same too.

 

[Thinkaman]

Swordfighter:

d-tilt does 6% -> 8% and waaaay less knockback, much better for setups
nair does 5% -> 8%
Grounded Hero's Spin [12-16%] -> [14-19%]

No other changes found. I was pretty comprehensive.

 

[Shaya]

OP updated, hopefully its most accurate edition yet!

@ Thinkaman , it was all from the same guy (I think two other individuals posting about others) that posited swordfighter special changes, shouldn't be too hard to find.

P.S. this post was made before your latest one. whoops.

 

[InfinityCollision]

I just finished painstakingly checking if ZSS up-B still has RCO lag (it does)

Not that it's really needed in this instance, but since I just finished testing the same I'll cosign. Still RCOs when hit out of up-b.

Zero suit samus' grab ending lag is reduced to almost none....

No, no, no.

Falco's d.Air seems to be sped up, and it may just be me hoping that his b.air is better, but it seems to have slightly more knockback.

He has changed, his d.tilt seems very fast, and his f.air true seems to finally true combo with down throw, also his nair seems a bit slower, but that's just me.

...No. And you're way behind on dthrow->fair being a combo.

 

[EmeraldBaron]

Falco's D-air is still 16 frame start-up, 23 frames of landing lag, same as it was before. Block-freeze and blockstun is the same too.

Any other noticeable changes for my boy Falco? : (

 

[ChronoPenguin]

OP updated, hopefully its most accurate edition yet!

@ Thinkaman , it was all from the same guy (I think two other individuals posting about others) that posited swordfighter special changes, shouldn't be too hard to find.

They spoke of airborne assault doing more damage and shuriken being longer. These are both false. It is still 7.5/10 damage hitboxes as it was in 1.05.


Would hope for final confirmation that Charizards U-throw KB has been decreased. Normally when you increase move, especially 3%, you're going to kill earlier... but this has not been the case, which implies its been decreased in tandem with the damage buff.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Any other noticeable changes for my boy Falco? : (

Only change to Falco that I found after going over his frame data again is the one I mentioned on the previous page. Some are reporting a buff to his u-smash but I don't think that has been confirmed yet.

 

[Krysco]

~~~

So far unchanged characters:

From what I've seen in this thread the following changes were claimed to have been made (I would imagine based on feeling and placebo):

- Less landing lag on dair
- Better hitboxes on fsmash (though it's been said all multi hitting moves are better)
- Higher jumps
- Faster mechakoopas

- Faster dash speed
- Stronger uthrow
- Slower bair

- Something about his nair being changed? I don't remember what exactly
- Bair not auto cancelling anymore out of a full hop

- Something about the reticules in his smashes
- Bair being autocancellable when it wasn't before (no idea since I don't use Duck Hunt)

- Nerfed jab lock though not to the extent Link was
- Lower dash speed

- Usmash connecting better
- Fair having a sweetspot and sourspot
- I think something was mentioned about dsmash, don't recall what
- Shadow Sneak stuff being removed

- Faster ftilt/dtilt/nair/some other aerial

- Stronger or weaker dair
- Weaker rest
- More speed (dash or air, don't recall)
- Sing being more difficult to wake up from

- KO punch always going forward
- Stronger knockback on smashes
- Higher jumps/wall jump
- More distance on side special and up special

- Bthrow killing earlier (pretty sure the person I saw mention this, later deconfirmed it themselves)
- Cape glide coming back

- Not specific to Megaman but the inability to ftilt/fsmash with an item affects him
- Leaf Shield projectile being faster
- Uair being stronger knockback-wise

- Bthrow being weaker
- Bat making sound when reflecting stuff
- PK Fire being easier to escape
- Something to do with PK Thunder. More damage? Don't recall

- Turnips being bouncier
- Dsmash doing less damage

Don't recall any claims being made for Pika, just a lot of people asking about changes

- Faster Guardian Orbitars (start up wise)
- More horizontal range on usmash
- Less lag on arrows

- All kinds of stuff, mostly damage and knockback buffs on things like aerials and smashes and tilts. Back Slash doing more damage to the front, uair being less laggy (I know you can full hop uair and then double jump, not sure if that was a thing before)
- Some glitch with Yoshi being removed

- Bair nerfed
- Fsmash buffed
- Can't Pocket Pac-Man's trampoline anymore (technically a Pac-Man change)
- Up special being slower
- Pretty sure there were claims regarding grab or throws, less lag or something

Don't recall any claims for Wario

- Uair nerfed damage (iirc Thinkamen himself said that was placebo and that it either got nerfed in an earlier patch or always did that damage)

- Less lag on grab
- Damage changes to ftilt and/or dash attack

That's all I recall and I'm not claiming any of these to be true changes due to the patch. I'm just listing the claimed changes I recall being listed earlier. If any of these are true then they should be listed in the op, if not then these characters can all be ignored I suppose. I'd test it myself but I already updated both my 3DS and Wii U version.

If none of these are true then maybe this post can stand as a list of what HASN'T been changed in case someone suggests one of these again.

I'm aware I'm ignoring claims like Ganon's utilt having more range but I just feel it's best to get the characters without any changes out of the way and this post is long (and probably pointless) enough

 

[Thinkaman]

As I mentioned earlier, Falco's jab 2 can be cancelled into the rapid 2 frames earlier now.

Gif comparison: left is pre-patch, right is post-patch.

I can't replicate this.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

From what I've seen in this thread the following changes were claimed to have been made (I would imagine based on feeling and placebo):

- Less landing lag on dair
- Better hitboxes on fsmash (though it's been said all multi hitting moves are better)
- Higher jumps
- Faster mechakoopas

- Faster dash speed
- Stronger uthrow
- Slower bair

- Something about his nair being changed? I don't remember what exactly
- Bair not auto cancelling anymore out of a full hop

- Something about the reticules in his smashes
- Bair being autocancellable when it wasn't before (no idea since I don't use Duck Hunt)

- Nerfed jab lock though not to the extent Link was
- Lower dash speed

- Usmash connecting better
- Fair having a sweetspot and sourspot
- I think something was mentioned about dsmash, don't recall what
- Shadow Sneak stuff being removed

- Faster ftilt/dtilt/nair/some other aerial

- Stronger or weaker dair
- Weaker rest
- More speed (dash or air, don't recall)
- Sing being more difficult to wake up from

- KO punch always going forward
- Stronger knockback on smashes
- Higher jumps/wall jump
- More distance on side special and up special

- Bthrow killing earlier (pretty sure the person I saw mention this, later deconfirmed it themselves)
- Cape glide coming back

- Not specific to Megaman but the inability to ftilt/fsmash with an item affects him
- Leaf Shield projectile being faster
- Uair being stronger knockback-wise

- Bthrow being weaker
- Bat making sound when reflecting stuff
- PK Fire being easier to escape
- Something to do with PK Thunder. More damage? Don't recall

- Turnips being bouncier
- Dsmash doing less damage

Don't recall any claims being made for Pika, just a lot of people asking about changes

- Faster Guardian Orbitars (start up wise)
- More horizontal range on usmash
- Less lag on arrows

- All kinds of stuff, mostly damage and knockback buffs on things like aerials and smashes and tilts. Back Slash doing more damage to the front, uair being less laggy (I know you can full hop uair and then double jump, not sure if that was a thing before)
- Some glitch with Yoshi being removed

- Bair nerfed
- Fsmash buffed
- Can't Pocket Pac-Man's trampoline anymore (technically a Pac-Man change)
- Up special being slower
- Pretty sure there were claims regarding grab or throws, less lag or something

Don't recall any claims for Wario

- Uair nerfed damage (iirc Thinkamen himself said that was placebo and that it either got nerfed in an earlier patch or always did that damage)

- Less lag on grab
- Damage changes to ftilt and/or dash attack

That's all I recall and I'm not claiming any of these to be true changes due to the patch. I'm just listing the claimed changes I recall being listed earlier. If any of these are true then they should be listed in the op, if not then these characters can all be ignored I suppose. I'd test it myself but I already updated both my 3DS and Wii U version.

If none of these are true then maybe this post can stand as a list of what HASN'T been changed in case someone suggests one of these again.

I'm aware I'm ignoring claims like Ganon's utilt having more range but I just feel it's best to get the characters without any changes out of the way and this post is long (and probably pointless) enough

I immediately call bull**** on that second Mac change.
Also, I'm pretty sure that 4th one was deconfirmed as well.... not sure about the other ones.

Edit: nvm read the end of your post after posting.

But that Falcon with slower Bair? Ima test that, though I would imagine that Thinkaman would've already figured that one out.

Duck Hunt's Bair change got deconfirmed.

Also, wasn't something changed for Pikachu regarding the ledge?

 

[Ffamran]

As I mentioned earlier, Falco's jab 2 can be cancelled into the rapid 2 frames earlier now.

Gif comparison: left is pre-patch, right is post-patch.

So it links better? What about Jab canceling? Anything on that?

Only change to Falco that I found after going over his frame data again is the one I mentioned on the previous page. Some are reporting a buff to his u-smash but I don't think that has been confirmed yet.

Not a buff, but more of a fix on how Up Smash works making it link into Up Smash 2 more easily. As of this point, I wouldn't say Falco was buffed in any way and more so fixed than buffed, but that's just my interpretation.

 

[Ludus_Machinae]

I could swear that they did something to greninjas dtilt to up smash true combo, I can't get it to connect, can someone confirm this for me? (I think I could be crazy because I also thought sheiks bouncing fish was nerfed, didn't it kill before 125?)

 

[Thinkaman]

Would hope for final confirmation that Charizards U-throw KB has been decreased. Normally when you increase move, especially 3%, you're going to kill earlier... but this has not been the case, which implies its been decreased in tandem with the damage buff.

Maybe a tad; the total knockback is still non-trivially more. That said, it's never going to kill.

 

[Moydow]

- Less lag on grab
- Damage changes to ftilt and/or dash attack

Not seeing either of these

 

[Blobface]

@ Shaya
Zelda
Forward Smash Loop Hit angles lowered, 60/160 -> 20/170 (Inner hit-box / Outer hit-box.)

Does that mean it links better now? A lot of people seem to be saying stuff links better. What I really want to know is if this applies to Duck Hunt and Samus, cause IIRC busted linking was a big problem for them (especially Samus's U-smash). @ Thinkaman is there anyway to test this kind of thing without KB Values?

 

[Yong Dekonk]

I don't get it. Most of the changes are so tiny they make no impact on character viability at all. Honestly I was hoping for much more extensive buffs to several characters.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Pretty sure >90% of @ Krysco 's list is bunk, only thing I saw while skimming that I know is actually confirmed is the Yoshi-Shulk arts glitch being fixed.

...Did someone seriously speculate that Falcon's dash speed was buffed?

 

[Krysco]

Maybe a tad; the total knockback is still non-trivially more. That said, it's never going to kill.

Wait, what? I didn't mention Charizard at all '-';

 

[Steeler]

Here is a test I would like you 3DS testers to look at:

Pick Zard and set cpu as Mario. Go to Battlefield. Set damage to 165%. Do not move Mario and position yourself as close as possible to the left edge of his platform. Without moving, grab Mario and dthrow. When I tried this, there was KO lightning pre patch but not post patch. I understand the skepticism, especially with all the placebos, but I actually tested this side by side!

 

[Nammy12]

- All kinds of stuff, mostly damage and knockback buffs on things like aerials and smashes and tilts. Back Slash doing more damage to the front, uair being less laggy (I know you can full hop uair and then double jump, not sure if that was a thing before)
- Some glitch with Yoshi being removed

Shulk's frame data for his smashes, tilts and aerials are completely the same.
So is his damage.

The all in one Monado art glitch with Yoshi was patched out though.

 

[Krysco]

As for my list, I'm sure most, if not all of it is false but just in case something was missed or wasn't tested I listed the claims I recall being made. If most or all of them are false then we can most likely put those characters to rest (unless something obscure was missed like Yoshi's less laggy ledge attack or whatever it was)

 

[HeroMystic]

- Bthrow killing earlier (pretty sure the person I saw mention this, later deconfirmed it themselves)
- Cape glide coming back

B-throw is deconfirmed. It's the same.

Cape Glide only works with the custom capes, which has always been the case.

 

[Thinkaman]

Wait, what? I didn't mention Charizard at all '-';

Oh, it merged quote tages, part of my post went missing.

I meant to address you and say that 95% of that list is deconfirmed nonsense.

I could swear that they did something to greninjas dtilt to up smash true combo, I can't get it to connect, can someone confirm this for me? (I think I could be crazy because I also thought sheiks bouncing fish was nerfed, didn't it kill before 125?)

D-tilt to u-smash true combo? on Greninja???

Here is a test I would like you 3DS testers to look at:

Pick Zard and set cpu as Mario. Go to Battlefield. Set damage to 165%. Do not move Mario and position yourself as close as possible to the left edge of his platform. Without moving, grab Mario and dthrow. When I tried this, there was KO lightning pre patch but not post patch. I understand the skepticism, especially with all the placebos, but I actually tested this side by side!

It kills exactly at 161% for me on both. No lightning.

Does that mean it links better now? A lot of people seem to be saying stuff links better. What I really want to know is if this applies to Duck Hunt and Samus, cause IIRC busted linking was a big problem for them (especially Samus's U-smash). @ Thinkaman is there anyway to test this kind of thing without KB Values?

It's really, really hard to test this in a scientific manner.

 

[Krysco]

Oh, it merged quote tages, part of my post went missing.

I meant to address you and say that 95% of that list is deconfirmed nonsense

Ah, okay. You seem to be the primary tester for this so I'll take your word for it. Whatever changes I listed that are in that 5% of truth should probably be put in the OP if they aren't already. Only bothered mentioning the characters I did since they were claimed to be unaffected by the patch (which may very well be true)

 

[Ffamran]

Question: how would you confirm Falco's Up Smash linking better? Unlike Zelda's Up and Side Smashes, it's more wonky while Zelda's would have people fall out a lot. I don't remember a time where people would get launched with the first hit unless it was on BF or I purposely spaced it for KO percent testing.

 

[SILENTWALL]

Attention: If you haven't updated to 1.0.6, please backup your 1.0.2 update file (Wii U). Probably it will help you to compare the different between these two versions in the future. Same as 3DS version. Thanks.

 

[KERO]

Greninja Usmash fix is definitely true (Shadow Sneak stuff was removed last patch). I'm 95% sure it's entirely because in 1.0.5/1.0.4, second hit of Usmash was smaller than the first, causing the first to hit and then whiff the second entirely as the second was too short to hit it. This would only occur if the opponent was hit by the tip of the first hitbox. I know some Greninjas are saying second hit comes out faster, but from what I could tell, that wouldn't explain the fix. The first hit knocks them straight down into the second so, logically, it makes no sense that the second hit supposedly came out too slowly if it properly connects (which it does) when the first hit connects closer to Greninja. It would be quite the opposite where the second hit comes out and ends too fast for the first hit to pull the opponent into it.

Either way, unless the opponent is standing on a platform, if hit one of Greninja's Usmash connects with the opponent, hit two will now always connect which previously had not been true. If I am mistaken in this (and I firmly believe I am not), go ahead and delete this post. I have video evidence of hit one connecting and hit two not if you wish to see it as well (part of the demonstration video I made right before the patch hit).

The other Greninja stuff is all placebo, though.

 

[Thinkaman]

Question: how would you confirm Falco's Up Smash linking better? Unlike Zelda's Up and Side Smashes, it's more wonky while Zelda's would have people fall out a lot. I don't remember a time where people would get launched with the first hit unless it was on BF or I purposely spaced it for KO percent testing.

So, I've hesitated to quantify this, but I think visually there is a slight difference in the location of the victim for the 2nd hit of Falco's u-smash in 1.0.6 next to 1.0.5. I'm not sure if I'm imagining it or not--I AM looking for it, so it's very likely.

 

[FlipFlopMist]

I don't get it. Most of the changes are so tiny they make no impact on character viability at all. Honestly I was hoping for much more extensive buffs to several characters.

I actually like how they went about it, they buffed, NERFED, and fixed a lot of stuff across the board and added a new character to the mix. I'd rather they keep making small adjustments and lets us find out and unlock the potential of these characters over time-I hope and expect another small list of buffs and nerfs flying by when Lucas comes out.

 

[Thinkaman]

Greninja Usmash fix is definitely true (Shadow Sneak stuff was removed last patch). I'm 95% sure it's entirely because in 1.0.5/1.0.4, second hit of Usmash was smaller than the first, causing the first to hit and then whiff the second entirely as the second was too short to hit it. This would only occur if the opponent was hit by the tip of the first hitbox. I know some Greninjas are saying second hit comes out faster, but from what I could tell, that wouldn't explain the fix. The first hit knocks them straight down into the second so, logically, it makes no sense that the second hit supposedly came out too slowly if it properly connects (which it does) when the first hit connects closer to Greninja. It would be quite the opposite where the second hit comes out and ends too fast for the first hit to pull the opponent into it.

Either way, unless the opponent is standing on a platform, if hit one of Greninja's Usmash connects with the opponent, hit two will now always connect which previously had not been true. If I am mistaken in this (and I firmly believe I am not), go ahead and delete this post. I have video evidence of hit one connecting and hit two not if you wish to see it as well (part of the demonstration video I made right before the patch hit).

The other Greninja stuff is all placebo, though.

I'm trying to see the difference, and I can't. Any way I can clearly replicate the original whiffing?

 

[LunarWingCloud]

@ Krysco I did mention and would like to reconfirm Pikachu's moves are completely unchanged damage-wise. Knockback also appears to all be the same, but hopefully a data dump will do better to confirm that.

 

[KERO]

I'm trying to see the difference, and I can't. Any way I can clearly replicate the original whiffing?

Basically, a character has to jump and start falling and Greninja has to Usmash them when they are at the tip of the swords. You could try replicating what I did in this video at 4:50 perhaps (I know it's kind of a pain to time and all, but the Usmash second hit whiffing thing happened more often than you'd think at tourneys)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfbulwMYK20

 

[Conda]

It's nice, at least, to see that the style of buffs/nerfs the developers are doing don't really shake up playstyles or options too much. It doesn't seem like a patch is going to have to make anyone 'relearn the game' or 'switch mains' or anything. Which is good.

Knowledge growth can continue evolving without any large interruptions or hiccups along the way, which is good for a fighting game. Pick a main and dedicate yourself to them - they likely won't be too drastically buffed or nerfed ever, which lets you really get used to how they work but ALSO how other characters work.

So keep adding info to your knowledge libraries, 99% of what you learn will be applicable after each balance patch it seems. Which is great. This gives anxious minded and indecisive people some peace of mind and a sense of 'order' - it lets us all get used to the game and not feel like it's ever gonna change too radically.

Heck, I feel the Lylat change is one of the most impactful ones in this patch.

 

[Lanzoma]

- Fsmash (downwards) knockback decreased

This used to be considerably stronger than the other variations. Now it's upwards > normal > downwards.

I just tested this on my unpatched Wii U first, patched, and then tested again. Can confirm, downwards angled fsmash has considerably reduced knockback.

 

[Thinkaman]

Basically, a character has to jump and start falling and Greninja has to Usmash them when they are at the tip of the swords. You could try replicating what I did in this video at 4:50 perhaps (I know it's kind of a pain to time and all, but the Usmash second hit whiffing thing happened more often than you'd think at tourneys)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfbulwMYK20

It sounds like there isn't a strong need for me to specifically confirm or deconfirm this atm, which will be found in the data instantly. I'm gonna yield on this one.

 

[Ludus_Machinae]

Oh, it merged quote tages, part of my post went missing.

I meant to address you and say that 95% of that list is deconfirmed nonsense.



D-tilt to u-smash true combo? on Greninja???



It kills exactly at 161% for me on both. No lightning.



It's really, really hard to test this in a scientific manner.

yes it was at around 40-70 I think utilt true comboed dash cancel up smash, I can't get it to work no matter how perfect my inputs are (yes I learned all the ins and outs of greninja, this definitely true Comboed before)

 

[Shaya]

So the Marth boards are all rocking that dancing blade has been "fixed", probably in a similar way as other moves have been noted.

@ Thinkaman , short of proving this is the case properly (easier to wait for data dump), mind seeing if dancing blade has "any change" whatsoever?
I think the notable example people are bringing up is greninja at low percent now being comob'd by it properly.

(If it isn't changed at all I'll probably laugh my head off, this would be the biggest confirmation bias of the patch right here)

 

[Vakyoom]

Other zard changes that i've compiled in the charizard 1.0.6 thread but i wanna put them here so others can test it too...

All of my original and new testing is done vs Mario on FD in training.... I've also done side-by-side testing with 3ds' with the 2 most recent versions.

*Flare blitz was already touched on, but 1% extra damage isn't a big deal.

* Uthrow was confirmed too! An increase from 8% total to 8% on ascent and 3% on impact(11% total!). Doesn't mean i'll want to use it but sure, it's a nice touch up.

* U smash still hits for the same amount despite some peoples claims(16% fresh, 22% charged), KOs at the same %'s and doesn't feel any faster/more efficient.

* B Up(Fly) does the same damage but it KOs at 112% on mid-ground FD vs 123% in my old notes. Confirmed as KO @ 123% on 1.0.5 3ds! Yay Buffs!!

* Fair has a new sweet spot at the tip of the move(It seems this sweet spot is just the old inside sweet spot being switched to the edge of the attack). Does 1% more damage with the tip of your claws and KO's at 107% vs my old values of 133% with the sweet spot for each version at the edge of FD(This may be attributed to the swap of sweet spots but that's a HUGE knockback increase). The move does feel faster coming out but the landing lag is still abysmal on both this and Bair still. The slash arc is also a little larger when tested side by side with 1.0.5!! cool!

* Nair has less lag at the end, as long as you do the Nair as soon as you short hop(Like old school falco lazer-walking) you can shield as soon as you hit the ground. It was like this on 1.0.5 apparently, w/e lol

Possible conditional changes, need to be confirmed

* Down B(Rock Smash) KO's 1% sooner but that's debatable as a buff, could also be because dmg varies from 19-24% based on placement lol.

* Ftilt does the same damage but KO's at 121% at the edge vs 125% from my old notes. BUSTED in side-by-side, mario lands at the same spot on the map after getting back from the ledge. KO's at same percentages from that same spot in the 2 versions.

* Bthrow and Dthrow get a mini buff! Bthrow KO's at 162% vs 164% at the edge(after both you and mario get up off the ledge) and Dthrow KO's at 128% on stages edge vs 130% when side by side testing with a 1.0.5 3ds. Slight buffs are nice!

* Fsmash does about 1-1.5% more damage when fully charged And also has a knockback sweet spot at the center of his head as opposed to the start of his neck, it appears as thought they've switched where the sweet spot was before. Uncharged KO's at 91% @ center stage vs 95% with the head, and the start of the neck now KO's at 95% instead of 91%.I'm still testing this to confirm, the sweet spot seems to change with every attack....

* D smash appears to KO about 2% later than 1.0.5(126% @ center stage vs 128% current) when the sweet spot is hit(about grab range away from your opponent)

I'll try to update this as i can since i'm still testing most of this to confirm, the Fsmash is the one that's really tripping me up... That could totally be placebo or wacky placement... I'll make changes if i need to, keeping track of 2 threads shouldn't be hard.

 

[PHYTO-1]

D-smash is definitely unchanged though. It was always 22%.
.

mustve charged it for half a second or so then. i forgot that i tested these out using A+B smash controls.
bar non-full charged smash attack related info, everything should be conclusive.