Meta Knight+

[Meta Marth]

heh, that's cool, you played M2K.
anyways, MK+ = awesomeness
i really like playing him more now in Brawl+
it's sort of changed my play style with him.
i'm not that great with him though, 'cuz i really don't know any combos.
could anyone point them out to me?
i'm still getting used to it

 

[rageagainst]

The problem with MK in vBrawl was that the physics of the game created an environment in which there was no way to exploit his natural weaknesses as a character.

Now his weight actually becomes a problem, his horizontal momentum can create problems for him, he isn't floaty, and this may just be my experience but a character like Samus or Link can now more effectively wall him out with projectiles and Zair.

His weight didn't matter in vBrawl because there was no way to force him into a finisher like characters can in Brawl+. Same with his lack of floatiness. It makes him fairly easy to combo at low and mid percents, which makes his weight even more of an issue because he actually has to worry about following up against him which pushes him to his lower % needed for a kill. His poor movement in the air makes aerial combos more difficult for him which is going to limit his combo game closer to the ground; not necessarily a bad thing, but it is something to consider.

He definitely is still the best in the game. He is probably the most balanced character in the game. You can argue that characters like Fox and Falcon have a stronger offensive game than MK but they don't have the defensive game to back them up.

I have a feeling that his role as a character will be more like Snake now. He will still be a powerhouse with a majority of favorable matchups but I have the feeling that a counterpick will exist now, and some matchups that aren't really counterpicks but not in his favor.

posting after a long hiatus, completely new to this brawl+ thing, but I have to ask, if MK has so many good matchups... why don't they nerf him more? Anyway I wouldn't understand the purpose of a matchup chart in the first place... well other than to figure out where the Brawl+ devs f3cked up , and what they need to "patch"

 

[Andarel]

There is no way that Brawl+ will be able to give every character a 50:50 matchup against every other character. That is simply not going to happen. However, the goal of Brawl+ is to give every character a chance against every other - the maximum "disadvantage" they're looking for is along the lines of 65:35, which means beatable with a fair bit of effort.

MK has always been a very fun character to play with, but in vBrawl he was completely, brokenly good. In Brawl+, however, the gains across the table and some important nerfs (especially Shuttle Loop and downsmash being less effective) have made it at least possible for characters to beat him. He is still amazing, but he's not the best in the game by a wide margin, and that makes all the difference. Plus he's actually fun to play against without the godmoding. The Brawl+ team figures that he's basically fine as-is.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^To add along to that. Favorable matchups are perfectly fine and actually fairly healthy for a competitive game (not to an extreme though. 80:20 matchups are NOT fine). What becomes a problem is when one character has A LOT of favorable matchups and zero or just 1 or 2 bad matchups.

I'd argue that a lot more characters go even with MK now, and I'd think that a few matchups that were pretty close before might become metaknight counters now (I'm thinking Diddy Kong and maybe ZSS or something).

Also @ Andarel. 70:30 would be a better maximum to have, since that's where a character just barely becomes a "hard counter." At that point you can still win (it's obviously not as hard as vbrawl Bowser vs DDD), but it would be much more wise to have a secondary for that character assuming that the other player might actually be GOOD with them. I say this because at high level play matchups start mattering less because both players know what is and isn't punishable, and what each character's punishment options are. Then the players simply become better at covering their character's weaknesses in the match.

 

[Finns7]

Its funny, but it seems brawl+ made me interested in meta more than vbrawl, it feels more rewarding for getting kills.

 

[Andarel]

Dark Sonic - Yeah, I wasn't sure what the exact number was (hence "along the lines of") but I knew it was somewhere in that area. Meh.

 

[Eight 52]

Honestly, I'm liking Meta + more than brawl simply because I don't feel ridiculous playing as him. Meta does some stupid stuff, but everyone has something dumb now.

Also, Dark Sonic we need to play sometime, you bailed out at gigs. D:

 

[goodoldganon]

I play MK when I get him as random and the hardest part for me is adjusting to no auto snap ledges on his Up-b, since he goes so high then comes back down before he can snap onto the ledge. Overall though, MK is a very solid character. Still top of the line but he has some counters now (Snake, Wario, and Diddy are all really tough)

 

[Eight 52]

I play MK when I get him as random and the hardest part for me is adjusting to no auto snap ledges on his Up-b, since he goes so high then comes back down before he can snap onto the ledge. Overall though, MK is a very solid character. Still top of the line but he has some counters now (Snake, Wario, and Diddy are all really tough)

I find that this helps me out in most cases. I usually up b slightly over so it can hit a person edgeguarding. If they shield, I just glide attack past their shield. Side B is for autosnapping now.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Also, Dark Sonic we need to play sometime, you bailed out at gigs. D:

Yeah, me and Cape just stayed at my place and played 10 billion friendlies.

I'll try to go to the next Tonyfest and play you there.

 

[Eight 52]

Yeah, me and Cape just stayed at my place and played 10 billion friendlies.

I'll try to go to the next Tonyfest and play you there.

I should be there this Friday, I'm actually down south right now. You're sonic is going down.

 

[Hostility]

Metaknight is still really good, the nerfs he got were minor and he has easily the best edgeguarding in the game.

 

[iSpiN]

Well, MK has true counters now. Bowser is probably one of them.

MK just needs to be a little slower, but thats just my opinion.

 

[Revven]

Metaknight is still really good, the nerfs he got were minor and he has easily the best edgeguarding in the game.

We know.

The thing is, focusing on MK forever and year isn't a good idea, when we do that we leave other characters in the dust who need help (i.e DDD, who needed the most help in a character for awhile). If we keep focusing on MK, we drag the project behind as well as the other characters. This isn't fair, therefore, we shift focus on the other characters and leave MK alone for AWHILE because nerfing him and buffing no one else is silly.

Basically: Finish the chars who need help, go back and review MK, wait for more tourney results, if MK is proven broken, try to fix him, if he is OP try to fix, but if he has tons of counters against him, don't fix. Tornado no longer distorts match-ups so really, that helps a lot of characters (i.e DK) who couldn't deal with it before.

MK just needs to be a little slower, but thats just my opinion.

How about we stop talking about nerfing this ***** and have some REAL discussion please? These threads are getting worse and worse and it is all because of Sonic and Link mains who got "special" permission to discuss changes.

 

[Magik0722]

this thread name should be MK minus

 

[crazycrackers]

this Thread Name Should Be Mk Minus

Lol!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GHNeko]

Doing chaingrabs against people who dont know how to DI/against people of who's DI I read is probably one of the most amazing feelings I've ever had with MK.


Dthrow is beast yo.

And Giga Drill Breaker is **** now.

 

[Eight 52]

And Giga Drill Breaker is **** now.

;_; It's not even close to that.

 

[GHNeko]

LOL. I think so, I have yet to be punished for using it properly.

 

[Yingyay]

And Giga Drill Breaker is **** now.

You win thread. Lol!!!!! best comparison ever.

Mk is perfect right now. His moveset and priorities are the things thats keeping him on top. So nerfing and and buffing him wouldnt help. So enough bout that.

I plan on learning MK so I can counter him with my Sheik.

 

[Mr.-0]

Some other threads are doing this so..... let's start discussing matchups. I think we should start with the awsemome captain. I give the matchup a 65-35 MK favor because CF has almost no way to recover on a good MK and MK can combo falcon like there's no tommarow, and the feeling is one sided. So yeah.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

M2K plays Brawl+ but mains Ike......

MK isn't top 2 in Brawl+ due to the amount of lag and time his moves takes. He can **** in air but Marth and Luigi are better then MK imo.

You're smoking crack, big time.

Marth has great range, but can't really go on the ofeensive like MK can.

Luigi, however, can, and I've always thought him to be ridonculous. Though the only thing broken about him is nair, he doesn't really ahve disjointed hitboxes, just one with high priority.

True, Marth cannot go on the offensive like MK does... Since he can't spam his moves, they're very punishable. DB isn't a character for itself anymore. He's got quite a bit of ending lag compared to a lot of characters (I'm pointing at Wolf, Fox, G&W, etc.)

Some other threads are doing this so..... let's start discussing matchups. I think we should start with the awsemome captain. I give the matchup a 65-35 MK favor because CF has almost no way to recover on a good MK and MK can combo falcon like there's no tommarow, and the feeling is one sided. So yeah.

Somehow, it's still to be seen.
We'd need to get 2 pros to play 'em, I have the feeling MK totally dominates Falcon, even more than a 65:35, but I might be wrong.

 

[GHNeko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqFUGE67ZuU&feature=related

So MK has a legit B+ only AT now.

GG Brawl+ team. rofl.

Nado refuses to be nerfed.

 

[Palpi]

Wow that is pretty funny and awesome if you pull it off in a match some how.

 

[Deleted member]

too situational.

but good find

 

[Yingyay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqFUGE67ZuU&feature=related

So MK has a legit B+ only AT now.

GG Brawl+ team. rofl.

Nado refuses to be nerfed.

I think I know what might have happened.

1) the hitbox stays even tho the the endlag was increased
2) Sakurai re-hacked Brawl+ and says "learn to erase hitboxes"

 

[GHNeko]

We, yea. the hitbox stays out during the last few frames.

But ****, you can cancel the nado and use the hitbox to do stuff. :V

 

[Yingyay]

The real issue is.....does metaknight really need to be able to do MORE stuff to you? lol

 

[GHNeko]

Depth is always good. Even for MK. Its a situational AT and cant kill, and probably doesnt have follow ups unless canceled.

Did I mention is stage specific? Lol platforms.

 

[Plum]

Depth is always good. Even for MK. Its a situational AT and cant kill, and probably doesnt have follow ups unless canceled.

Did I mention is stage specific? Lol platforms.

Yeah, but when is MK ever going to go to a stage that doesn't have platforms?
FD can arguably be one of his worst stages, so there is no reason for him to ever go there unless forced there through a CP.

Still, this seems like it is going to have limited use at best. A cool find though.

 

[Mr.-0]

I should put up a match-upcombo section too. To bad alot of people hate MK in b+. Any ideas,comboes, or match-ups that anybody wants to discuss so that I can add it to he first post so I don't look like a dumb loser? ( wow, i typed too much... )


... I switched it to MK Minus...

 

[SimaMatt]

lol I love mk in brawl+, why don't a lot of people like him? Stigma from regular brawl?

I'd love to contribute but I only play on wifi. Not the best way to determine matchups, especially considering the buffer bull****. and mk combos are 2ez x3

 

[Mr.-0]

At this rate... I'd take wifi matches

 

[CRASHiC]

Nerf the tornado all you want, giving MK combos and the ability to gimp even more is going to keep him one of the best.

 

[Dark Sonic]

We're not nerfing tornado again <_<. I even doubt we'll really be doing any more heavy nerfs to him (we were thinking of nerfing his d-throw a little, but even then we're probably not going to do it anyway <_<).

 

[metaXzero]

MK's.....interesting. You can't be as sloppy as you could in Brawl and (for me) he has very few genuine combos. He's still good at pressure and edgeguarding, but other characters seem better at damage racking then him.

 

[JCaesar]

We're not nerfing tornado again <_<. I even doubt we'll really be doing any more heavy nerfs to him (we were thinking of nerfing his d-throw a little, but even then we're probably not going to do it anyway <_<).

Um I don't think Crashic was suggesting another tornado nerf ... He's saying that it doesn't matter how much his tornado gets nerfed, MK is still going to be one of the best characters regardless just due to his inherent qualities.

And I agree.

 

[RPGsFTW]

As previously said, I think Snake is now a much harder match-up for Meta Knight. His tilts are still big and stupid, and they also hit hard enough to kill. Grenades also stop tornadoes.

Besides that, I personally like Brawl+ MK a bunch. Mostly because I no longer feel like I'm just a ****** who dominates every character.

I can't think of many combos really, but down-tilt to dash grab still seems to work =P

 

[I LAG]

do you think we could get some metaknight textures on the front page with download links?

 

[V-K]

You can´t approach because his attacks are faster than light, have a big range and no lag. You can´t shoot him because he is too small and fast.

And it doesn´t matter if you punch him, he will almost always come back to the stage...

PS:
And he can still **** you with the tornado.