Melee Tournament Mafia! Game Over, Town Wins!

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Hello Red Ryu :3

I'm going to wait for vult to explain why he doesn't believe Ryker. I don't find it scummy in any way though. I'm confused as to if I believe it or not as well, but reasons why is always nice!

Soup is just blech. His points are soooo... meta-ish. He basically called Swords and Beat scum for voting Volt because he voted Ryker. That shouldn't be the case at ALL. Pressure, people. It can, and will be applied. I like their votes being there UNTIL he gives reasons as to why he doesn't believe the claim. Volt himself, not Soupa.

Edit(Not really an edit with the button, but edit because I re-read while making this): Swords vote being there... completely different from BeatSticks based on attitude. Swords vote being there is quite scummy honestly. He's just like "Why don't you believe ryker", votes him, and then "I believe ryker tho lol" >_>;. Swords scummy, BeatStick not really.

Hi Joey!

Hmmm...so you feel like the attitude is that different? Soup seems to think Sword is easily to talk to and Beatstick is harder to have a discussion with.

I think there is reason to be skeptical about the claim, but I wouldn't know much about standard procedure, since I've never seen a person outright claim princess right at the beginning, Miller I have, Princess I've seen people try to hide it more often than not.

I do want to see what Vult says more about it, but I wouldn't count out his claim. I think I can see personally Ryker being believable in this situation and am willing to side with him, I just wouldn't say it with 100% certainty since this is new for me.

Wanted to ask why you tried to put us right back into RVS, but it was already asked and answered. I don't like why you did it though, and honestly, it's scummy enough for some pressure!

Vote: Red Ryu

Why did you feel like doing an RVS post instead of... you know... commenting on what was going on at the time? Hmm.... enlighten me~!

Also, it really makes me wonder about your town-status when you comment on there not being RVS, and afterwards making a RVS post. I don't get it. Just because you wanted to doesn't cut that off the scummy list, in case you were wondering.

Ryker's aggressiveness scares me. Worst princess ever :C

I didn't try to put us back in there, my listeral reason for doing it was, "Cause I felt like it"

If I were to be honest about this.

I made one comment saying I felt like Soup's arguments were more null rather than town, but that is all I made about the issue. Well that and I feel like voting Vult over just not believing him is kinda BS, while I agree them not listing the reasons is legit to talk about, but not really a reason to vote on him for the moment, even more so when most players haven't posted yet.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm gonna catch up with this even though I wanted to hydra but I guess I'm just gonna watch out for myself since she bailed.

from this page Gord's posts on Princesses are icky.

Vote: Gordito

I'll try and post late later tonight.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Goridito, NK still results in a skipped day.

 

[#HBC | J]

Goridito, NK still results in a skipped day.

^this. I had that role in my game.

Also Gord you would know what a princess does. Especially considering the fact you were a Mafia Beloved Princess before. So why the selective rememberance?

 

[Dooms]

Yeah, I thought the same thing Ryu @ NK skips Day. Lol.

I felt that their posts were really different in attitude, yes. It seemed that swords wanted to vote him for not liking Ryker's claim, while BeatStick's vote seemed like it was a pressure vote instead of not liking Ryker's claim.

Sorry! The only posts I saw were a flavor post (Which had to do with the princess role, which was claimed in one of the firsts posts today), a post about leaving RVS, a RVS post, and a post asking why people were voting Vult. In that order, of course~! I must have skipped some of your posts. I'm really sorry :C!

Btw, sorry Vult, but I think I'm going to end up switching between Vult and Volt for no reason XD! Sorry if I do D:!

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

@Morons no maf would wanna NK the princess. Then they wouldn't get the extra Night phase. He's vigbait, at best. But not even that.

What the ****?

 

[Dooms]

Nvm, missed two posts on Page 4 @_@! One of which I responded to! Oh wows!

Page 4 posts contain:

Saying that soupa isn't scummy and you asking inactives to stand up and be active!

Moving my vote to Gord.

Don't really like gord right now. Especially since he's lying about the princess role that he once had.

Why did you feel like saying that, Gord?

Why didn't you go into detail with your read on Red Ryu/Soupa? Just Meh? :C!

Why didn't you back your statement up with a vote on a supposed slip? Why did you choose to FoS him instead of voting him? O_O

Unvote
Vote: Gordito

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yeah, I thought the same thing Ryu @ NK skips Day. Lol.

I felt that their posts were really different in attitude, yes. It seemed that swords wanted to vote him for not liking Ryker's claim, while BeatStick's vote seemed like it was a pressure vote instead of not liking Ryker's claim.

Sorry! The only posts I saw were a flavor post (Which had to do with the princess role, which was claimed in one of the firsts posts today), a post about leaving RVS, a RVS post, and a post asking why people were voting Vult. In that order, of course~! I must have skipped some of your posts. I'm really sorry :C!

Btw, sorry Vult, but I think I'm going to end up switching between Vult and Volt for no reason XD! Sorry if I do D:!

No worries.

I don't have much about it either since I can see what your saying about the difference here, but it's not strongly changing my thoughts on either being scum or town. Still I'll wait as well for Vult before I think about this more.

Also can people clarify about when he was a princess?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Joey, why is there a Pichu after your posts?

 

[Dooms]

Really? Interesting! Nice to know! I may try to discuss this further when Vult gets back!

Because I love Pichu! After the Marathon Mafia pokemon thing, I just ended up keeping it XD!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So it's not a posting restriction yes?

 

[Dooms]

Definetly not~

...

.....

HOLY **** IF THIS WAS A POSTING RESTRICTION...

</3

 

[Vult Redux]

Vult, do you seriously not believe Ryker? I can't tell from the way you worded that post.

No, I don't believe him.

Also why not RVS vote? >.>

I thought my posts were sufficient content-wise.

because it's like saying "i'm a cop."

and some guy goes "what kind of cop?"

Some Princess variations specifically carry their side-effects if they're killed only during Day or Night. He didn't specify in his first claim post (which is curious, no?).

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Sorry for sudden absence, went to the mall.

i usually vote for RVS but ryker abolished that.

Beat? scummy? yes. scum? no.

reminds me of ranmaru somewhat.

It's not relevant whether or not it's the "RVS," it's still the beginning of the game, where you should really have no reads, so create some. Now's as good as a time as any to lay down a vote.

Btw, I know this argument might sound arbitrary (why do you have to vote to make a stance?) but voting really isn't really unnecessary either. It is, after all, the ideal way to create pressure, and to let town know where you stand. Plus, not voting could be interpreted as a sign for wanting to keep one's options open w/o possibly contradicting oneself later on.

I don't want this to fall into a "How to ideally play the game," debate, so I'll stop it here and just ask you: Do you understand what I'm getting at here? There should be nothing stopping you at the beginning of the game from voting someone simply cause you think that "they're not scummy enough," because anything at this point should be enough.

Also, could you explain how Beat reminds you of Ran, and the implications of that?

@Joey:

Yeah, I thought the same thing Ryu @ NK skips Day. Lol.

I felt that their posts were really different in attitude, yes. It seemed that swords wanted to vote him for not liking Ryker's claim, while BeatStick's vote seemed like it was a pressure vote instead of not liking Ryker's claim.

Sorry! The only posts I saw were a flavor post (Which had to do with the princess role, which was claimed in one of the firsts posts today), a post about leaving RVS, a RVS post, and a post asking why people were voting Vult. In that order, of course~! I must have skipped some of your posts. I'm really sorry :C!

Btw, sorry Vult, but I think I'm going to end up switching between Vult and Volt for no reason XD! Sorry if I do D:!

So you saw my 119 then?

@Gord: *insert necessary "eww Gord that's weird explain please" post here*
---

He's basically Doc bait for the rest of the game, right? Ughhhh...

Hopefully he dies early instead of late even though he claimed ;.; .

Yeah but he's also cop bait, which I'll say now is the reason why I was actually more inclined to believe him.

Maybe he might be Godfather, IDK, but that's WIFOM. What I do know is that is would be a risky position for any scum to put themselves in the situation that Ryker just did.

Joey, would you be up for lynching Ryker toDay, so to kill him early?

Vult I hope that's not all. >.> Everyone wants you to explain why you don't believe, so please do.

 

[Vult Redux]

Btw, sorry Vult, but I think I'm going to end up switching between Vult and Volt for no reason XD! Sorry if I do D:!

It's easier to remember if you know know it's pronounced "wuhlt" -- it's a Latin word.

But hey. I haven't seen you around before, and you have a interesting posting style. Is this your first game?

Also I should clarify that I'm not sure whether AM is scum. I could see him lying as Town also. /: That's why my vote isn't there.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

No, I don't believe him.

I thought my posts were sufficient content-wise.

Some Princess variations specifically carry their side-effects if they're killed only during Day or Night. He didn't specify in his first claim post (which is curious, no?).

While I haven't seen a game like this, has anyone else been in a game in which princesses don't trigger on certain deaths?

 

[Vult Redux]

Everyone wants you to explain why you don't believe, so please do.

2 reasons.

Meta: 1/2 of that hydra has a gambit fetish and would love to apply unique strategies at any good opportunity. They were probably chatting on Skype or whatever and going "hurr hurr hurr" about it all during confirmation.

Logic: He doesn't get lynched often. If he were actually a princess he would've just played extremely Town D1 and claimed during Twilight to get Doc protection if he thought he'd be a nkill target (100% chance).

And I kind of grew up with both sides of the hydra Mafia-wise -- probably 15+ games. I'm credible I think.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Princesses don't skip phases when NK'd. Only upon lynch. Unless your role specifically says it skips a phase upon death in general, which I can't possibly fathom.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Wow. Just checked mafiascum and it doesn't specify whether it's LYNCH or NK. I am 100% POSITIVE that either somebody told me that it's upon lynching, or that it was generally thought of, seeing that avoiding it by NK would seemingly be common balance for said role.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

2 reasons.

Meta: 1/2 of that hydra has a gambit fetish and would love to apply unique strategies at any good opportunity. They were probably chatting on Skype or whatever and going "hurr hurr hurr" about it all during confirmation.

Kind of an assumption, but that's why I hate meta tells: they rely on assumptions that the player has not changed his play. How do you know we are (read: y'know, solid proof that doesn't assume something first to become valid) bull****ting?

Quoth Ryker: "I don't care. I AM normally full of ****. I'm not backing off of this because I have this role. Decide whether I'm lying or I'm not lying based on what I'm doing."

Logic: He doesn't get lynched often. If he were actually a princess he would've just played extremely Town D1 and claimed during Twilight to get Doc protection if he thought he'd be a nkill target (100% chance).

This is based entirely on methods. Ryker hates RVS, we chose to claim it to bypass RVS. It gave something for town to talk about it and it gave us a lead on finding scum--you.

And I kind of grew up with both sides of the hydra Mafia-wise -- probably 15+ games. I'm credible I think.

I won't deny that you would be the one to pull meta against us, but it's a flimsy reason to use.

Quoth Ryker part 2: "We're either lying scum or Princess town and you're scum for trying to leave us open for a night kill."

I agree with that too. Soup's got his points backwards: Scum want to spread FUD about a princess claim. Scum want to leave it open to debate and want to keep town from believing it because they want to have that backdoor opportunity to kill the Princess whenever they need to kill the two kills. By consistently throwing doubt onto us, you're essentially leaving us open for lynch or NKill--exactly what scum want.

unvote Vote: Vult Redux

Lil Jon/Vult Redux for scum team if Vult flips scum.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

What the ****?

This is probz the best response to what you guys obviously think is my being dumb. But seriously WTF I've always gone with the assumption that princess making town lose a phase resulted from lynch and was negated by a NK.

And oh, to you two guys thinking that that's vote worthy? My left nut a mechanic blunder is vote worthy. How about scum hunting?

Why didn't you go into detail with your read on Red Ryu/Soupa? Just Meh? :C!

I went into as much of my Red Ryu suspicion as I felt. Slip's a slip. And Soup isn't somebody I have a solid read on yet cuz it's a Soup tell, and I truly can't tell if it's a scum or town tell atm. Null.

Why didn't you back your statement up with a vote on a supposed slip? Why did you choose to FoS him instead of voting him? O_O

I didn't feel it was vote worthy. Suspicious? Yea.

 

[Beat!]

@Joey
It was a "pressure" vote in the sense that I wanted an explanation from him.

Vult, how exactly would AMtown "gambiting" and lying about being a princess benefit town? Since you're considering the possibility you should have a good reason, too.

 

[Beat!]

And I def. agree about Lil Jon being scum if Vult is.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I mean, c'mon:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12705061&postcount=124

Scum admission right there.

@Beat


"I didn't vote you. I'm obviously scum."

which is what i quoted, just because you don't vote someone you think is scummy doesn't mean "oh my god he's scum he's not voting him vote vote vote"

Actually it kinda does? It's not a scum tell but if you're vote's not anywhere and you suspect someone, it's subtle hints at not scumhunting. You're willing to point out suspicious activity but you're not actually going to pursue them for it.

I don't think Soup is scum because of this, but it feels like a null tell rather than a town one.

FoS Red Ruy

1. Gordito
2. Adumbrodeus
6. frozenflame751
8. Terywj
9. Roxy
11. Joey
13. J

We shouldn't get too twisted about this and see what these guys say when they get back.

@Everyone on this list, what do you think of the Vult and Soup situations?

unvote Vote: Red Ruy

Same ****ing Red Ruy as RE4 Red Ruy. Sits on sidelines, doesn't say a lot about anything, doesn't comment on the princess claim, tries to direct town subtly without really getting involved in what's going on, and instead of adding his own opinion, he suggests we wait for others to post.

Hmm? Even if it's small, it's still a slip.

FoS Ryu

Gorfdammit, VOTE PEOPLE YOU SUSPECT IF YOU DON'T HAVE A VOTE SOMEWHERE.

unvote vote: Lil Jon
unvote vote: Red Ruy
unvote vote: Vult Redux

All three can die.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Gorf, comment on Vult.
Bean****, comment on Red Ruy
Red Ruy, comment on Vult. Don't give me quotes from other people, condense your thoughts into a single post.

 

[Beat!]

I'm getting slight scum vibes from RR, based on meta (his play from RE4 and FE). I wish you'd have waited a little with asking though, because I was hoping to wait for some more posts of his to confirm it. The "sideline" point is valid, but like I said, I'm not confident in my read yet.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Not this again...

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

FoS Red Ruy

Explain.

unvote Vote: Red Ruy

Same ****ing Red Ruy as RE4 Red Ruy. Sits on sidelines, doesn't say a lot about anything, doesn't comment on the princess claim, tries to direct town subtly without really getting involved in what's going on, and instead of adding his own opinion, he suggests we wait for others to post.

Funny how you leave out the comments I sent to Joey when I asked him about this, and when I did, put my opinion there.

FoS: Aggressive Mediation

unvote vote: Lil Jon
unvote vote: Red Ruy
unvote vote: Vult Redux

All three can die.

Here we go again...

Red Ruy, comment on Vult. Don't give me quotes from other people, condense your thoughts into a single post.

If you spent a fraction of a second to read anything I said to Joey, you'll see I did already.

Once he explains why then I can think about it more, as it stands he did have a right to call you out since even I said it was odd you claimed town princess right away when I have never seen something like that.

As it stands, he says he has legit meta on you and you even admit this. So I'm whiling to give him the benefit of the doubt even if I think it's more likely you are telling the truth.

I'm getting slight scum vibes from RR, based on meta (his play from RE4 and FE). I wish you'd have waited a little with asking though, because I was hoping to wait for some more posts of his to confirm it. The "sideline" point is valid, but like I said, I'm not confident in my read yet.

Is anyone actually reading where I'm posting?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

unvote stupid quotes makes that vote legit if I don't do that.

 

[Vult Redux]

Vult, how exactly would AMtown "gambiting" and lying about being a princess benefit town? Since you're considering the possibility you should have a good reason, too.

1. definitely to to pass through the RVS
2. maybe to attract a scum nkill if he's a bomb /some undesired role.

I agree with that too. Soup's got his points backwards: Scum want to spread FUD about a princess claim. Scum want to leave it open to debate and want to keep town from believing it because they want to have that backdoor opportunity to kill the Princess whenever they need to kill the two kills. By consistently throwing doubt onto us, you're essentially leaving us open for lynch or NKill--exactly what scum want.

unvote Vote: Vult Redux

Oh lawd. This logic.

Vote: Aggressive Mediation

He's scum. You can disregard the top part of the post.

 

[Vult Redux]

I should clarify because some people might not see the silliness.

I agree with that too. Soup's got his points backwards: Scum want to spread FUD about a princess claim. Scum want to leave it open to debate and want to keep town from believing it because they want to have that backdoor opportunity to kill the Princess whenever they need to kill the two kills. By consistently throwing doubt onto us, you're essentially leaving us open for lynch or NKill--exactly what scum want.

He's acting like he didn't expect someone to doubt his claim.

Let's be real here you guys.

If he were a Town Beloved Princess he would be expecting to have to defend his claim from skeptical people. People who claim these know that their claim will raise eyebrows from anyone, including Town. If Town never doubted these claims (Miller/Princess/etc.), scum would always win if they fakeclaimed them. My doubting his claim isn't a scumtell at all. He's just trying to take advantage of the fact that he thinks I'm the minority and can turn a wagon on me easily.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Vote: Aggressive Mediation

Totally down for this, his skimming of my past posts and your point is fine for me to lean this way.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Gorf, comment on Vult.

I don't think he's scum yet. Although his #177 is deplorable, at best, I can see the logic and pro town train of thought in his 191. Not scum atm.

Vote: Red Ruy

Points against em made by AM are super legit. And his 192 seems so much like a wishy washy OMGUS. He's trying hard to look like he's doing something, WITHOUT doing anything.

 

[Dooms]

Honestly... as much as I hate saying this about anyone... Ryker has a big enough ego and is cocky enough to actually think like that Vult. Especially since he thinks he's one of the best players here, which I can confirm to be true .

Throwing meta to the side, I can really see where you're coming from with your posts. He does look pretty scummy right now. Red Ryu has actually shared quite a bit of information with us, Ryker. You were as wrong as I was a page ago. Sorry :C!

@Swords: @_@ I don't think so! Maybe later when:

Doctor has an idea of who to protect
Vig has an idea of who is townie
Cop has an idea of who to investigate
etc etc (I'm just giving role examples, I don't know if we have these roles in this game).

@Beat: Oh okay! That makes sense! Thank you for Clarifying!

@Gord: You didn't feel that a slip was "vote worthy"? Isn't a slip.. catching them as scum? Or do you have something else in mind? Please Clarify.

 

[Dooms]

Gord, one of his stronger points is wrong LOL

Yeah, I think my vote is staying here haha.

Red Ryu whyyy D:!

Why do you give Vult the "Benefit of the doubt" when you believe Ryker more? Why are you voting Ryker if you believe him? You make me sad

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

It's a small slip. I hadn't yet determined whether I was nit picking or whether it was legit.

 

[Dooms]

Oh! Okay! Thank you! That makes a lot more sense!

Unvote

I'm not going to put my vote anywhere now based on that. Ryker, read all of Red Ryu's posts. Do you think your points are still true? Gord as well. Both answer please. Not just one of you.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Yo Joey ya mean these ones?

Sits on sidelines, doesn't say a lot about anything, doesn't comment on the princess claim, tries to direct town subtly without really getting involved in what's going on, and instead of adding his own opinion, he suggests we wait for others to post.

They seem pretty spot on iirc.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Btw I don't give a flying f*** about RE4. The fact is I can see this here. And that's enough for me to place the vote.

 

[Dooms]

He commented on the princess claim before I talked to him, he gave opinions on Soup and asked why Vult was being voted before I talked to him, and if you look at what I said above, he GAVE OPINIONS on soup before I even talked to him. Let alone afterwards.

Try again, please?