Melee Tournament Mafia! Game Over, Town Wins!

[smarboy69]

gee i wonder why. Hahaha.

; )

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Aggressive Mediation (Ryker + Washed Laundry): Brodehh you gotta not talk about ongoing games outside of the thread. You do it a lot, and even if it's really small things it can be indicative of alignment, even if you ask somebody if somebody hammers someone and you accidentally give a grunt. I agree that the punishment should have been different, but still foul play bro. And the only reason I'm not mentioning it to adumb is cuz I never see adumb do it. Sure you might see it as a big deal, but just follow the rule. No matter how much it hurts to hold back . Played really well either way, I love playing with both of ya. Y'all always find a way to make the game a bit more fun. Ggs.

Thanks for the compliments, but don't ***** at me about it. I haven't seen the instance. I don't recall the instance. I've heard it described and there was nothing there to change the lynch. No conversation I had with Adumb or anyone for that matter ever affected that read or any read in this game. If Kuz and Zen had played it right, they would've simply warned Adumb or Adumb and me in private not to talk outside the game or they'd get modkilled. They allowed WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much of an influence of an isolated instance that, in itself, had no consequences one way or another. I will continue talking about mafia in places where I talk to the mafia community. If, "Go look at that flip." or "Wow." is too much for you, then catch me doing it and modkill me.

 

[smarboy69]

I absolutely agree with you when you say that the actions taken by the mods weren't what should have been taken. Once the action occurred, they should have acted. And both of you should have gotten the same punishments, let alone the fact that the punishments should have been of equal punishment. I'm not telling you that you shouldn't talk about mafia in places where you talk to the mafia community. But when it comes to ongoing games, a more cautious attitude needs to be taken. In places like chat rooms, people that play the game are there too. I trust that you don't wanna break the game (and I don't even think that your offense is what broke this game, moreso it being Roxy's giving up and the mods unequal punishments for you and adumb). Just be more cautious mang.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Thanks for the shout outs but Gord should stop posting on his hydra account it's ban evasion.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Dude, for unequal actions, how can you suggest equal punishments. The problem is that it was done above the table.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Thanks for the shout outs but Gord should stop posting on his hydra account it's ban evasion.

Okay, but you're punishing everyone else in Decisive Games with the temp ban. The punishment shouldn't affect me when I did nothing wrong. How would you recommend a solution to this problem without collateral damage if not giving him access to decisive games and not the rest of the website. He is out of the area that he affected. Ban him from that board forever for all I care, but you're forcing me to wait on DGray Man and Melee Mafia if you had forced him off of the account.

He's not hurting anyone here. No one is angry that he's able to be here. What do you accomplish with that statement?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Moving this to Social.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Okay, but you're punishing everyone else in Decisive Games with the temp ban. The punishment shouldn't affect me when I did nothing wrong. How would you recommend a solution to this problem without collateral damage if not giving him access to decisive games and not the rest of the website. He is out of the area that he affected. Ban him from that board forever for all I care, but you're forcing me to wait on DGray Man and Melee Mafia if you had forced him off of the account.

He's not hurting anyone here. No one is angry that he's able to be here. What do you accomplish with that statement?

Ryker, him and Joey were banned for hard core trolling.

Regardless of what people were waiting on, I cannot let ban evasion slide anywhere because he broke the global rules of the site, which means they cannot post anywhere period. If they believe they should not have been banned or unfair treatment was done forum support is their friend.

If they didn't troll, they wouldn't have been banned and wouldn't hold up these games.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker, him and Joey were banned for hard core trolling.

Regardless of what people were waiting on, I cannot let ban evasion slide anywhere because he broke the global rules of the site, which means they cannot post anywhere period. If they believe they should not have been banned or unfair treatment was done forum support is their friend.

If they didn't troll, they wouldn't have been banned and wouldn't hold up these games.

Responding elsewhere.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Yarrr

Vote: Gord MVP

Um I think I had a lot too say about Gord's play but I forgot what it was, lol. Anyways, he did really, really well. Like, his reads were really on point this game, and he did a lot to help town from the shadows. Really good use of his role. FF recruit was a really good idea, cus tbh I don't think I or anyone else could of managed to lynch FF. Hell, I was even starting the second guess myself on the FF read there at the end.

Urm it's weird that out of the four scum I think the one who wasn't even part of the team did the best. Good **** Joey for escaping many of are radars.

Roxy I kinda just dismissed as lazy town, lol. Wanted to focus on others first anyways.

Adumb was mad scummy. Should of pushed him harder but in my (and others) defense we didn't really get much Day time so meh.

FF could of done a lot for the scum team but he never really got the change unfortunately for them.

It's hard to say if town would of won the game without the "cop" or not. Early on we were kinda disorganized but it as just the start of Day 1, so stuff could of happened. I like to think that a lot of people were gunning for at least one scum in whatever lynch pool they had (especially Adumb, he could of very well been a Day 1 lynch. It was either him or Vult probably).

Vult lynch early on could of been bad cus people would of been looking towards AM afterwards. Maybe not.

AM's fakeclaim was insane. Kinda just dismissed cus I figured that he was just asking to be copped or something. Plus I can see a town AM wanting to stay alive just as much as a scum AM, lol.

Fake claiming Princess Day 1 as Godfather sounds like a boss strategy now that I think about it. Maybe I'll try it sometime on another site.

Man though, when Kuz told me on AIM after my death that BOTH AM and Vult fake claimed, I was flipping the **** out!

J Soup and other people did good.

Roxy why did you kill me?

That's all for now.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Oh, and even though I DO think that adumb was mad scummy this game, I want to point out that I do like what I saw him trying to do. He constantly tried to set himself up for point grabs with his "reads" and such. Smart idea. Shame that despite that his play probably wouldn't of been good enough to sustain it either way.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Well that was an interesting mess to watch slowly and steadily resolve. GGs.

Gord getting a recruit off on me was a total fluke BTW. I was going to rolestop myself, which would have roleblocked the recruitment attempt, but I thought the deadline was EST not GMT so I submitted it late and it didn't get accepted. My claim would have been flawless otherwise.

Adumb pretty much not playing was pretty disappointing too but hey what can ya do.

Mason recruiter with a ****ing backup who can inherit the powers of the recruiter is a ****ing OP piece of **** role that I'm sad to see approved as balanced role in a Dgames game. Seriously never again.

frozenflame751: Got really nervous about your slot. I just couldn't imagine anything you said coming from a townie. Your scumpicks seemed off, your opening post was aiming to ridicule, and your overall play is what lead to your recruit. And when Tery came up dead, I knew that you had to be anti town. Tery's the guy that a scum team would wanna take to lylo, not kill Day 1. Especially with how I forced him to make as many connections as he did. And then the holes in your logic, i suppose, were noticeable, but that's because there was really no chance. The only person that could have possibly saved you was AM, but he realized you were wrong in the end. Good game. Felt good to lead a lynch on scum FF .

The holes in my logic? Really?

That's really funny. I'd love to see you address the points I made in my self hammer post.

@ Mods: What exactly happened with the outside communication shenanigans that resulted in the mod votes? Why did you apply mod votes asymmetrically? Like I really interested in hearing the rationale behind doing what you guys did, because you pretty much uprooted the game by taking those actions.

If someone gets an MVP from this game I will be incredibly disappointed. No one in this game came anywhere close to playing exceedingly well for their faction and role.

The mason recruiter got himself killed.

The fakeclaimed princess didn't even draw an NK.

The cop gave his investigation to the mafia.

The mafia predicted being targeted and could have roleblocked both targetting Town PRs.

Scum nailed a town PR night 1.

Yeah, anyone who thinks they played at an MVP worthy level is kidding themselves.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

The point wasn't to draw a Night Kill. It was to do the opposite. It was to make us look so ******** that we look like we could be mislynched. You misgauged that one pretty bad.

 

[#HBC | J]

Scum nailed a town PR night 1.

Hahahaha =P

Frooooozen, can we have the scum QT?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

The point wasn't to draw a Night Kill. It was to do the opposite. It was to make us look so ******** that we look like we could be mislynched. You misgauged that one pretty bad.

So you're telling me that you claimed one of the juiciest NK targets in mafia as a stunt to make you look anti-town, so that the scum wouldn't NK you because they thought you'd be an easy mislynch?

You seriously thought people would consider lynching a town princess? Like really? When you're sitting NK bait that would give the town the same info if you got NK'd without wasting a lynch and getting doubly punished for it?

Well, whatever delusions keep the game fun for you I suppose.

We had no intention for pushing for your lynch after your claim. We were pretty content to let you sit around and hope for an indy/vig to kill you in early game, or just get rid of you in late game after any protective role were eliminated.

So sure, we misgauged your intent, but regardless of what you intended, we didn't even think what you wanted us to think AND you made a survivalist gambit, which is pretty much the opposite of what a VT wants to do. But sure, if tricking people with moronic play is your thing, more power to ya.

@ J: Here's the QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/QNppxQaDEXq

It's very short and not very exciting. Adumb was a virtual non-presence and because of that lack of activity we didn't discuss very much.

I also find it hilarious that Gord says **** like "omg frozen no scum wud kill Tery N1 like thats totally unthinkable herp derp he mustve misrecruited" when like, I was actively suggesting for him to be the N1 kill.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

People wanted to kill me in that QT. :o

 

[Asdioh]

m2k mafia traitor? lolol

cool flavor, didn't read the game. Was it good?

I feel awkward posting in here because it says Day 5

 

[adumbrodeus]

I had a plan, I was ryker's 4th scumread which was pretty much exactly where I wanted to be in this game (I'm gonna assume I was about there with everyone), but I had too much to take care of during the game, and when I could read I was simply way too distracted. Still, I could've pulled out an impressive endgame if what happened hadn't happened.


Also, wierd times for deadlines and rules preventing us from sending in actions for other members of the mafia really screwed us over.

C'est la vie.



Also, inactivity isn't scummy swords. It's just inactive.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Most humorous post in that QT:
"Btw I would never throw a game; i love mafia too much. "
-Roxy

salt

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

"I'm going with the "you're partially right but the fact that you seem to know more than you should is weird and sounds like lies" strategy. I want people to doubt Gord but I also don't want to turn it into a Gord vs. Me once must go tunnel fest where even if I win and get Gord lynched I still lose in the long run."
-Frozen

That's where you went wrong with the entire thing. Once that claim happened, you got a day, max. You were not at all avoiding a lynch once Gorf flipped what he claimed to be. You should've just accepted that you were screwed by a pseudo-investigative and just attacked Gorf as opportunistic scum or something. Your goal here wasn't to survive for longer than a single day. For this game, that's probably all you needed.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Lastly, I wanted you guys to kill us. We didn't claim that because we wanted to be put out of the nkill spotlight, we wanted to be thrust into it. We wanted scum to, at some point or another, try to desperately attack us and either hit a doc protect or end up getting a VT they thought was princess. By focusing on us, that left Red Ruy alive to do his job and maybe saved the doc (or Gorf in this regard) for another day.

You didn't kill us, which depresses me. I really, really, really wanted to read the salt you guys would've had when you went to the effort to kill us only to realize we weren't the golden goose.

Dunno why Broto thinks it's not that though, from what I remember of our conversation, setting us up to eat the nightkill we inevitably eat is entirely what we tried to do.

 

[th3kuzinator]

*pops into thread*

Feel free to ***** at/discuss with me the reasoning for the Adumb modkill. I CAN TAKE IT.

The short end of it: What Adumb did was in my eyes worth a modkill in itself. X1 agreed with me on this. However, we had already had a modkill earlier in the game and force replacing AM at that point would have been unfair so we punished him accordingly. It gave adumb a slim chance to live through the day while if he died it gave scum an extra Night instead of the day continuing which would have happened if we had flat out modkilled him.

Don't follow the ****ing rules, you get punished.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

What exactly was the conversation? I don't understand it and I might've been a bit salty, maybe at you, maybe at Broto, if I had been punished for something I didn't do.

Then again, if I got us modkilled/force replaced for stupid comments earlier in the game, welp, fair point

 

[th3kuzinator]

I will say I want to apologize to X1 for his game being semi-ruined because of player misconduct. If that happened to my setup I'd be very angry.

I have not talked with X1 but a no MVP is almost certain.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Through a certain medium that X1 came across, Adumbrodeus heavily implied that he was town aligned to Ryker outside of thread.

I'll quote for you the OP on this.

4.) Unless your role PM specifically allows you the power, you are not to communicate with anyone about this game outside of this game thread. This includes posting content outside of the game thread and linking to it in the game thread.

I was faced with either force replacing your slot or punishing Adumb in some fashion. I didn't want to take the former because it would not be fair to your slot who had done nothing wrong and it really didn't punish Adumb.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Fully agreed. I won, but I don't feel like I deserved it. Two of the three scum kills weren't really fought and earned. It sucked.

Even though I didn't do anything other than say something stupid, I'll apologize to X1 too. It wasn't a ****ty set-up--I only had two complaints--and you guys did a good job hosting it but I still feel bad.

Said complaints are that the mason recruiting mechanic should've had a limited number of shots in a game this small, especially since there was a back-up in case the main recruiter misrecruited or died, and the lack of protectives is just suicide for strong players.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Yarr

Post lost game FF salt, as expected.

@Adumb: Never said it did.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I completely understand your frustration for working so hard and then not feeling like you truly earned the win and I'll be glad to field any of your comments related to how we handled things.

As a moderator sometimes you have to make tough decisions and I'll stand by my decision 100%

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Fair enough.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Reading the mafia qt is a confidence booster. The fact that FF was afraid of me is pretty cool.

Gotta keep from being cocky though, trying to remain modest here.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

"I'm going with the "you're partially right but the fact that you seem to know more than you should is weird and sounds like lies" strategy. I want people to doubt Gord but I also don't want to turn it into a Gord vs. Me once must go tunnel fest where even if I win and get Gord lynched I still lose in the long run."
-Frozen

That's where you went wrong with the entire thing. Once that claim happened, you got a day, max. You were not at all avoiding a lynch once Gorf flipped what he claimed to be. You should've just accepted that you were screwed by a pseudo-investigative and just attacked Gorf as opportunistic scum or something. Your goal here wasn't to survive for longer than a single day. For this game, that's probably all you needed.

I disagree. I really don't think that going with an adversarial claim to Gords would have been any stronger than the claim I used. Given how eager people were to side with Gord's ****ty claim even before I claimed in response is pretty indicative of that, and I doubt that simply attacking Gord head on would have made people willing to move away from the chance to have an easy wagon on me.

The whole point of my claim was to put myself in a position where if Gord was lynched or killed in some way and flipped what he claimed, it didn't necessarily indict me. If you go back and read everything I wrote on the subject, it was all true. Gord assumed that he could conclude more than what he really could. He didn't have the concrete info he was claiming to have and as such, had no real way of knowing for sure if I was actually the cause of Tery's death. Because of that, if people had actually understood that concept, us both being town was entirely possible.

Through a certain medium that X1 came across, Adumbrodeus heavily implied that he was town aligned to Ryker outside of thread.

I'll quote for you the OP on this.

I was faced with either force replacing your slot or punishing Adumb in some fashion. I didn't want to take the former because it would not be fair to your slot who had done nothing wrong and it really didn't punish Adumb.

If this was an outside medium, doesn't that imply, to at least some degree, that these two players were both engaging in discussion regarding the game outside of the thread? If that was the case, shouldn't they BOTH have been punished for what they were doing? Equally?

I totally understand the need to punish people who break the rules, but still, putting someone at L-1 when another person involved in the "scandal" can just come in and get a free hammer is pretty much BS.

What you should have done is either modkilled both of them and ended the day as a result, since one of them would have been town, OR you should have given both of them enough votes to be L-2 or something, so that neither of them could simply alpha strike the other.

Maybe I'm missing some details of the scenario that make giving the symmetrical punishment unwarranted, but unless those details are shared, I simply do not understand at all how putting someone at L-1 through mod votes was deemed to be the "appropriate response" to whatever happened. Because it wasn't. It killed an already struggling game.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I disagree. I really don't think that going with an adversarial claim to Gords would have been any stronger than the claim I used. Given how eager people were to side with Gord's ****ty claim even before I claimed in response is pretty indicative of that, and I doubt that simply attacking Gord head on would have made people willing to move away from the chance to have an easy wagon on me.

The whole point of my claim was to put myself in a position where if Gord was lynched or killed in some way and flipped what he claimed, it didn't necessarily indict me. If you go back and read everything I wrote on the subject, it was all true. Gord assumed that he could conclude more than what he really could. He didn't have the concrete info he was claiming to have and as such, had no real way of knowing for sure if I was actually the cause of Tery's death. Because of that, if people had actually understood that concept, us both being town was entirely possible.

Looking back at the main game mechanic being a gigantic masonry, I can see an outside shot of a Patriot being used as a counter to it but Patriots are generally anti-cult, not anti-mason. I've never seen an anti-mason Patriots. I don't deny that it was possible but it didn't really seem probable at all.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Looking back at the main game mechanic being a gigantic masonry, I can see an outside shot of a Patriot being used as a counter to it but Patriots are generally anti-cult, not anti-mason. I've never seen an anti-mason Patriots. I don't deny that it was possible but it didn't really seem probable at all.

Just a difference in our experiences I guess.

I've seen Patriot used as both a red herring role (i.e. used in games where no recruiting roles even exist, so they're really a VT in disguise) and as mitigating roles to use in games where the threat of a town masonry growing too easily is very real.

Just because you haven't seen it used in a different way doesn't mean it isn't both fair, balanced, and clever to use a role in a non-traditional way. Granted, since it seems no one else in the game had ever had that type of exposure, it wasn't very probable that I would win people over on that argument.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Yeh. Honestly, when Gorf claimed, we initially believed you outright and that Gorf looked incredibly opportunistic. Then you claimed Patriot and suddenly you were the less-believable one...

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I think this game proved more than most games I don't read very well into people.

 

[X1-12]

I think I should have given scum a patriot fakeclaim? It'd give them a bit of a heads up about the mason and it'd give them the idea of rolestopping themselves.

Um super strange question but is gord a scummie in melee?

only because I can't think of any reason why frozen would give that long a response against gord... and then just hammer himself at the end of it =? What was the point of the long response?? >.>

I think aggressive comebacks like that only serve to make Gord look townier from Frozen's POV... would he do that knowing Gord is not aligned with him?

The horror anyway I thought it was a bit weird. If not then good stuff Gord! And cool game! I'm reading along with it!

o ur right actually it's night. my mind was stuck in twilight before his flip =/ I was pondering on the self hammer. I wonder why he did this then? do you think it was unwise for Frozen to make such an aggressive comeback on gord only to hammer himself? I think it was!

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Is the game over? (hope i can post here sorry if i can't)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You can post here Sveet.

 

[Dooms]

Lol quick hammered while I was banned.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Man opportunistic town alpha striking scum.