Melee Tournament Mafia! Game Over, Town Wins!

[Dooms]

Because of the way he did it.

'Sup

I believe Ryker.

Vote: Vult Redux

Explain yo

Coming in with a random vote on Vult would obviously give him suspicious looks.

 

[Purple]

That's not random.

 

[Dooms]

First post in the game is a vote on Vult. Looks random to me!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You're right, but you still haven't answered the second part of my question. My error. I misread. I don't like the choice though.


Regardless you haven't answered the second question yet, please do.

Your skimming.

Because this was answered after I claimed.

Please die.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Your skimming.

Because this was answered after I claimed.

Please die.

No you didn't.


This is what you said:

The player I target gets the results, not me.

I know that.

Now tell me what you give somebody the power to investigate.


Alignment? Flavor? Track? Watch? Report? What?

 

[Hard Lemonade]

Explain your analysis, Adum.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Goddammit!

I was perfect!!!!!!!!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

No you didn't.


This is what you said:



I know that.

Now tell me what you give somebody the power to investigate.


Alignment? Flavor? Track? Watch? Report? What?

Wrong.

Once per night I target a player, the following night that player has me investigate another player, that player I targeted the previous night will get my results.

It's clear your not reading this game, you even commented on my claim and then missed this.

It's alignment.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@AM: I suppose that it's kinda weird that both just now decided to mention FF now. IIRC, neither one of them said a thing about him until just now. So it is just kinda coming out of left field for them to say FF is scum.

I can't really grill them too hard for this, just because I semi-agree with them on FF's scumminess. I agree his introduction was scummy, and it left a sour taste in my mouth that's going be hard to wash out. However, I do not agree at all that FF "sidelined" his way through Day 1. Upon review of his last two posts, I cannot really agree with that statement.

@FF:

@ Sworddancer: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost....&postcount=698

How is complaining about towns performance and people being dumb not relevant?

If town is playing poorly, why wouldn't I say so? Are you honestly trying to contend that if I have a problem with the topic being discussed, am having trouble getting reads because of it, and think that the focus of towns attention is a poor focus for scumhunting, that I am better off not saying anything and just going with the flow? Are you ****ing kidding me?

Not at all. If you don't like town's general direction and want to change it, then more power to ya. Again, my problem with you're entry post was that that was all it did, and I have trouble believing that AM's claim really kept you from getting reads, at least not anymore than any other game early on.

You want my stances. I get it. You're borderline obsessed with just my stances considering that's all you seem to like about any of my posts. Whatever. Point is, just because my opinion on what the best direction for to head in is, my thoughts on what likely good/bad town/scum play is, and why discussing certain topics is/isn't important isn't interesting to you at all doesn't make it universally irrelevant.

I liked both the stance you provided and the reasoning for it as well, as you will see if you go back and read it. So it didn't have to do with your stance, but I digress.

I didn't say everything you said was irrelevant, but I also said that some of it was shallow (mainly the talking about how to treat certain situations just as Night actions and what not). Again, it's easy stuff to go over, and the fact that you were inactive for a good couple days there made me weary.

Like your narrow mindedness is made exceptionally clear from your comments about my questions. Of course you can't see the results of peoples' answers to 'em. They're MY questions. If you can see the intent, then why are you complaining? Intent is a huge part of reading people.

How did the questions help me? They showed me who is paying attention to me, who cares to respond to my questions, who's skimming, and who actually had reasoning behind their initial stances on AM's claim. In short: it gives me info about specific players to develop my reads. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

I was more talking about seeing a direct link between your stances and your questions, but okay fair.

Also, stop criticizing me for doing things you areperceiving me to have done, as opposed to what I actually did. Your language of "why are you the only one who can lay the groundwork" and "why are you exempt from getting into the down and dirty" exemplifies this ridiculous perception you have of me. When did I ever say that no one else should suggest topics for discussion other than me? In fact, when did I ever restrict our focus at all? In fact, I broadened it by trying to move away from AM's claim, and then left it open ended. I didn't even make a specific suggestion about where we should focus, yet you're trying to paint me like some draconian dictator who was forcing his way on everyone. Entirely not the case and the fact that you keep doing this bothers me. Same goes for the whole "why are you exempt" thing. When did I ever say I was exempt. Just because I didn't remaining active for the next handful of hours doesn't mean I felt exempt, it means I was busy and had other things, other than mafia to do. You're attributing fallacious fault to me, indicting me for actions I never took.

Perhaps this was really bad wording on my part, so I apologize. It was not my intention to accuse you of trying to exclusive control the town's direction. Rather, I was again accusing you of just trying to control the town's action/focus on mechanics/whatever you want to call it and nothing else. When I said "why are you the only one who can lay the groundwork," I probably should of said "Why is it okay for you to just lay the groundwrok?" You would agree that it's scummy for people to just focus off of shallow things, no? So what's exempts your introduction post for that rule? Why shouldn't people find it suspicion to go over easy to go over things almost exclusively and then leave for awhile?

Also, please don't say that you simply didn't remain active for a "handful of hours," because that's deceptive. You were pushing two days + there of inactivity IIRC. I understand you're busy, but it's still suspicious to come in with an introduction post and leave soon afterwards, which is what gave me the impression that you were posting "just to post." How am I suppose to know if you're legitimately expending upon stuff if you're inactive?

Wow what does that sound like? Blatant strawmanning. Seriously wtf?

Not a strawman. As pointed out, I wasn't trying to accuse you of strictly focusing on the town's direction.

And of course town can become focus on one narrow issue in early game. Again, you're attack positions I never took. All I said was that THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE (AM's claim) was a bad one to focus on because the discussion surrounding it was dumb and bad for getting reads (at least IMO, which obviously gives me incentive to try to stop it). I had a problem with the specific issue being discussed, not the fact that we were focused on an issue.

Okay, no liking people wasting discussion on AM's claim is fair. However, would you agree that this game had just as much content as any other game early on? Why didn't you comment on any of the stuff not related to AM's claim (other stuff was there).

@Vult: Okay, so why do you find FF scummy? In you're post where you said you might go him, you never stated why, except for the fact that you didn't find him town. Shouldn't that only make him null to you? Were you agreeign with Gord's reasons?

Also, you kinda ignored that whole part AM quoted . . .

 

[th3kuzinator]

Votecount 10 - [6/10] - Deadline is the 31st

Gordito [0]
Adumbrodeus [1] - Red Ryu
BeatStick [0]
Vult Redux [1] - AM
frozenflame751 [1] - Gordito
Sworddancer [0]
Roxy [1] - Adumbrodeus
Aggressive Mediation [0]
Joey [0]
Red Ryu [0]

Not Voting [6] - Beat, Vult, Frozen, Sword, Roxy, Joey

Strikes:

AM [1]

X1 is currently away for a few days and has asked me to step in. Any questions that you would like solved privately should be sent to me until X1's return.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Not at all. If you don't like town's general direction and want to change it, then more power to ya. Again, my problem with you're entry post was that that was all it did, and I have trouble believing that AM's claim really kept you from getting reads, at least not anymore than any other game early on.

Well theres our problem. If you simply don't believe me when I tell you that the fact that I was having a hard time reading people when all they were doing was bantering back and forth about whether or not AM's claim was legit, whether it was a good idea, and whether or not it was some kind of gambit, then we've kind of reached an impasse. I couldn't get a good read on anyone (except AM) from that content and if you don't buy it I don't know what else to tell you.

Perhaps this was really bad wording on my part, so I apologize. It was not my intention to accuse you of trying to exclusive control the town's direction. Rather, I was again accusing you of just trying to control the town's action/focus on mechanics/whatever you want to call it and nothing else. When I said "why are you the only one who can lay the groundwork," I probably should of said "Why is it okay for you to just lay the groundwrok?" You would agree that it's scummy for people to just focus off of shallow things, no? So what's exempts your introduction post for that rule? Why shouldn't people find it suspicion to go over easy to go over things almost exclusively and then leave for awhile?

Also, please don't say that you simply didn't remain active for a "handful of hours," because that's deceptive. You were pushing two days + there of inactivity IIRC. I understand you're busy, but it's still suspicious to come in with an introduction post and leave soon afterwards, which is what gave me the impression that you were posting "just to post." How am I suppose to know if you're legitimately expending upon stuff if you're inactive?

Fair enough, now I get what you're saying. It looked really strange for me to lay a groundwork and ask some admittedly vague-ish questions from an outside perspective, and then not follow up on that content for 2 days. That makes sense and I really have no defense for that. All I can say is that I think I did follow up on my first big post in a pretty significant manner in my second big post. Also, how was I to predict that Lil John would get himself modkilled during my away time? It wasn't like I was stalling before a deadline, it which case I could expect plenty of flak. I can't really have the reasonable expectation that leaving for more than 24 hours is going to jeopardize my ability to contribute meaningfully to any given day phase, because that's absolutely ridiculous and if SWF ever got to that point I'd stop playing here.

Also when I said a "handful of hours" I was referring to my posts directly following my first big one, which were within that time frame. I wasn't referring to my second big post.

Not a strawman. As pointed out, I wasn't trying to accuse you of strictly focusing on the town's direction.

Well with the old wording, it was. Now that you explained it I get what you meant.

Okay, no liking people wasting discussion on AM's claim is fair. However, would you agree that this game had just as much content as any other game early on? Why didn't you comment on any of the stuff not related to AM's claim (other stuff was there).

I fundamentally disagree with the bolded.

In general early D1's of games are pretty shallow in content. However, I'd say most early D1's tend to have more diverse discussion, more bouncing around of various (even though they may be minor or even trivial) points, ideas, and stances, and less sustained focus. In general, this isn't particularly conducive to getting reads. Just because this game had a lot of focus on one really ****ty topic doesn't make it any better, in fact, it made it worse for me to get reads. I don't know what other topics of significance you're talking about, but if they were there they certainly didn't help me get reads any better than AM related discussion because I barely/didn't notice them at all.

 

[Beat!]

If you could provide examples on this, that would be cool.

God I hope I remember how to collapse...


These should be all of Ruy's posts. I see no intention of trying to assert his own opinions or stands from these posts. Sure he brushes upon certain points, but just because you are bringing them up doesn't mean you are really involving yourself with the matter. You're focusing more on the face value, and not really looking into the intentions behind the posts.

He showed... OPINIONS. He gave us small opinions. Not much of anything town can really work with.

If you're giving fake or insufficient content, then your opinions are jaded.

But Adum I don't think this is noobtown, Ran noob town is pretty dang obvious based on his reaction to certain events.

I'm not seeing these kinds of tells from Gord. His 181 is strong to support your case, but look at his responses to Joey and me, those do not look like noobtown.

Look at this instance.







He says I have no opinions and stances, then he changes to, "He does but it's just nothing" Which I disproved this already at this point. If people want to say I don't contribute, I don't see what the hell people can say I am not contributing.

**** like this is what makes me think he's not scum, he's just being misread. almost positive that if a gorf lynch goes down, it'll be a mislynch.



When the player himself is doing what he's calling me out on, does he have a right to do such?



No.

I said I thought his case was legit in a sense that he was scum hunting, but I disagreed that his case deserves you to be lynched even if I still am a bit skeptical about it. There are other players who should be lynched over you and I think you being a princess is more plauable than I did earlier toDay due to your reasoning in your.

That enough?

@Bean****: Do you think Roxy/Purple has posted an acceptable level of content?

I haven't paid much attention to him tbh. That being said, he's definitely below average.

Beatstick who is scum and why?

Red Ruy - I still think that a lot from the case on him from D1 holds merit.

Gord - Dito

Vult - Didn't like his early D1 play.

I'll elaborate on these soon. I'm in a bit of a hurry right now.

How do you think J and Tery died and why?

J was being pretty active, so I could see that being a mafia kill.

Tery didn't post that much at all. I think it's likely that it was an indy/vig kill.


Content in a few hours. I gotta go.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Red Ruy - I still think that a lot from the case on him from D1 holds merit.

So you don't believe his claim then? Despite the fact that I have already confirmed that he was in fact able to send me the ability to investigate someone tomorrow night?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

what

whatwhatwhat

What part of "Alright guys, explain to me why you're going after dumbtown now" is baseless? Considering the game revolved around us by that point, that's not a bad entrance, it's not scummy. He wasn't going to attack first without directly talking to his first two leads: Vult and Red Ruy, two people trying to capitalize on bad play.

He had a vote out, he attacked people, he attacked who he thought was scum and if he weren't inactive you can damn well bet he probably would be pushing it. What part of this is scummy play? His inactivity? He had more content in three posts than Red Ruy did all of last phase.

/will answer this in detail when I'm done rereading.

 

[Vult Redux]

Vote: Purple Tentatively. I want to have my vote somewhere. It might change.

@Mod: LA between the 24th and 26th (Peer Educator training). Very very LA between 29th and 2nd (Canada vacation). Sorry.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Ya know what, f*** this s***, this is why I feel FF scum.

I claim Amash, Town Crew Sidekick.

Now me, I've never heard of Amash before in my life. But the flavour basically indicated that Armada asked me to team up with him in order to create the biggest, most bad a** crew in the world.

All my ability is, is that I start mason'd with Armada (Terywj). It's a neat twist on the normal mason idea, that really gave Tery the ability to be a cop, with me to back him up.

Prior to game start, I had started really try'na think whether we should use Tery as a cop from the get go, or to use him as a mason. And, as the Day progressed, and eventually fell to a modkill, I decided that the best course of action would be to recruit FrozenFlame. Why? Because I had a null, maybe scum read on him. I felt it was a win/win situation recruiting him, due to the fact that if I get him as town, woohoo there's a generally strong townie in our masonry. And if he was scum, well woohoo we caught scum.

And no, unfortunately, there are no crumbs. I tried getting Tery to do one of those crumbs where the beginning letters in every sentence spell out FROZEN, but no dice, he couldn't find a way to do it conspicuously. So the recruit went through, and he ended up dead.

tl;dr: FF is scum, and this is by far the best place for everybody to place their votes.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

As to why I didn't immediately come out and say this:

I felt it was best for me to withhold this info from town for right now, and see where it can take me. But after thinking about it for a second, at this point, I'm basically a VT. So there's really no PR to be lost with my claim.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Go-go Gadget Vig claim. Only makes sense as a vig kill, no scum (indy or maf) makes that shot. Really don't want to come out and say who I believe at this juncture. Fine with seeing what FF makes of it. Simply wait and let the response happen before it gets analyzed. Coming out and discussing it now is going to be treated as a scum tell. Understand me?

My mind is mostly made up at this moment, but I guess it could always be changed.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

EBWOP: Go-go gadget Vig claim if you shot Tery. Don't be claiming if you're not important right here.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ya know what, f*** this s***, this is why I feel FF scum.

I claim Amash, Town Crew Sidekick.

Now me, I've never heard of Amash before in my life. But the flavour basically indicated that Armada asked me to team up with him in order to create the biggest, most bad a** crew in the world.

All my ability is, is that I start mason'd with Armada (Terywj). It's a neat twist on the normal mason idea, that really gave Tery the ability to be a cop, with me to back him up.

Prior to game start, I had started really try'na think whether we should use Tery as a cop from the get go, or to use him as a mason. And, as the Day progressed, and eventually fell to a modkill, I decided that the best course of action would be to recruit FrozenFlame. Why? Because I had a null, maybe scum read on him. I felt it was a win/win situation recruiting him, due to the fact that if I get him as town, woohoo there's a generally strong townie in our masonry. And if he was scum, well woohoo we caught scum.

And no, unfortunately, there are no crumbs. I tried getting Tery to do one of those crumbs where the beginning letters in every sentence spell out FROZEN, but no dice, he couldn't find a way to do it conspicuously. So the recruit went through, and he ended up dead.

tl;dr: FF is scum, and this is by far the best place for everybody to place their votes.

Oh my, flavor wise it makes sense but I'm confused why it would end up with Tery dead, would it just mean the mason would fail?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

If mason recruiter targets scum, he dies.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Oh, well that changes things.

Let's see what FF says.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Ya know what, f*** this s***, this is why I feel FF scum.

I claim Amash, Town Crew Sidekick.

Now me, I've never heard of Amash before in my life. But the flavour basically indicated that Armada asked me to team up with him in order to create the biggest, most bad a** crew in the world.

All my ability is, is that I start mason'd with Armada (Terywj). It's a neat twist on the normal mason idea, that really gave Tery the ability to be a cop, with me to back him up.

Prior to game start, I had started really try'na think whether we should use Tery as a cop from the get go, or to use him as a mason. And, as the Day progressed, and eventually fell to a modkill, I decided that the best course of action would be to recruit FrozenFlame. Why? Because I had a null, maybe scum read on him. I felt it was a win/win situation recruiting him, due to the fact that if I get him as town, woohoo there's a generally strong townie in our masonry. And if he was scum, well woohoo we caught scum.

And no, unfortunately, there are no crumbs. I tried getting Tery to do one of those crumbs where the beginning letters in every sentence spell out FROZEN, but no dice, he couldn't find a way to do it conspicuously. So the recruit went through, and he ended up dead.

tl;dr: FF is scum, and this is by far the best place for everybody to place their votes.

Well, this would certainly explain why you came out of nowhere with this. I'm paranoid though right now. Could this be scum trying to make a power move?

Meh, probably not. I guess it's only fair to wait for FF, although I'm not too sure what he's going to say to convince us otherwise.

All eyes are turned to you FF.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Well now that has got to be one of the messiest claims I've ever seen.

Normally, I'd be all over your *** Gord and be calling you the **** out for trying a ****ty scum gambit.

Unfortunately there is a grain of truth in your otherwise piss poor claim that gives me reservations about whether you're just being ********, presumptuous town right now or actually gambiting.

You're right. Tery did target me last night. You're wrong about me being the reason he died though. You're also right that his recruitment failed, but I seriously have no idea how you would know that, because YOU didn't do the recruiting. Either you're just assuming the recruitment failed and concluded "well, whoever Tery targeted must be scum" or you're just scum making all this **** up.

I'm Kage the Warrior, Town Patriot. I received notice that Tery tried to recruit me last night but that it failed for obvious reasons (for those of you who don't know, a Patriot is a role that is unable to be recruited). Someone else killed him, because it sure as hell wasn't me.

Tery was really pretty quiet on D1 and had very few connections. He put his stances out once, nice and color coded for us, but that didn't really have much depth. He was a very good indy kill IMO. I'd be really surprised if it turns out that a vig killed him. If you exist and you did though, clearing this up for us would be nice.

That's why I wanted AM to be more discreet about openly discussing the fact that Tery was a mason recruiter when he was asking adum about what he thought about Tery's death. I didn't want to be screaming Tery was a mason recruiter for everyone to hear because I wanted to see who thought he was NK'd and who thought he misrecruited. Knowing he couldn't have misrecruited, this was valuable information to em.

Though the facts I have do back up your claim Gord, I have a lot of problems with it.

First of how, how the hell would you know if Tery miscruited and died as a result?

Secondly, a mason recruiter that STARTS with a partner seems realllllly overpowered to me.

And thirdly, what exactly do you mean by "tery could have been either a cop or a mason"? I'm guessing you meant to say that Tery, if he misrecruted, could function like a suicidal "cop" so to speak, even though that's a horrid analogy.

Unfortunately you're right that he targeted me, and it made sense for Tery to target me since he had a town read on me D1.

I don't know what to think about this, but you Gord are very clearly either an extreme presumptuous townie who hasn't thought about what he actually knows and is just jumping the gun, or a gambitting scumbag who can't be ****ed to defend himself and decided to try some sloppy *** PR claim.

Your complete and utter lack of crumbs of any sort (regarding the recruit target or you allegedly being in a masonry with Tery) is also pretty offsetting.

Vote: Gordito

Why don't you start over and this time, tell us what you actually know instead of what you think you know or what you're just simply pretending to know.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

FF, how can it be a possibility at this point that Gord is scum? I don't see it really possible that a scum Gord could of known that Tery recruited targeted you.

I'm thinking the the vig should probably claim at this point, as it would sort out a lot of this mess.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Vig should NOT claim if he isn't relevant.

Sworddancer and everyone else should shut up and let the two of them talk for now.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

FF, how can it be a possibility at this point that Gord is scum? I don't see it really possible that a scum Gord could of known that Tery recruited targeted you.

I'm thinking the the vig should probably claim at this point, as it would sort out a lot of this mess.

If he was scum he wouldn't know. That's the point. He'd be guessing correctly that Tery targetted me for a recruitment after he flipped mason recruiter. It's not that hard to piece together.

He flipped Crew Leader at the start of the day, and he had me named as one of his strong town reads yesterday.

If Gord is scum and didn't kill Tery, he would KNOW that Tery had to have died by some other means, and knowing Tery was a mason recruiter, a misrecruit is one of those means.

Mason recruiters usually start alone, which is why I'm skeptical in part of Gord's claim. He could very easily be faking that he was Tery's starting partner knowing that Tery is obviously dead and can't confirm or deny it. There's no way to now and he knows that since Tery was the one who did the recruiting. Gord even said it himself, he's a functional VT now. How convenient for him.

If Gord is scum he's made a really ballsy move but that definitely doesn't mean it isn't possible. There is plenty of information available for him to make this potential guess if he's guessing.

Otherwise he's just a very overly presumptuous and misguided townie.

 

[Beat!]

@Mod: Request replacement

I have a ton of school work that needs to be finished. Sorry for past days inactivity, I thought I could handle it at first, but I simply won't have time for mafia atm.

Again, really sorry.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Zen replaces bean**** effective immediately.

Say hello.

 

[Purple]

Whoa game slow down.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

**** it, Gorf, you're too slow. FF, you're not a ****ing moron. Because you like it so much, I'm about to behead you with Occam's Razor.

Gorf, the timing on your claim is ****ing pathetic and your role is an OP piece of ****. We didn't originally believe it, check our #898 and read just the first letters of each sentence.

FrozenFlame, I'm sure you know, Occam's Razor states that the simplest solution is often the best/right solution. Your post fails to take into account so many variables, it's not even credible. Tery died last night by an SK's hand.

Bull**** Detected

Tery was a threat to no man. The only people that couldn't talk him down in Lylo are Joey and Red Ruy. SK is much better served shooting players who can threaten him and leaving more worthless players for engame (such as tery). Mafia shot J, no miss about it. The only one shooting Tery is a bad vig weeding inactives but even then it makes more sense to remove purple or bean****. The only other feasible way for Tery to have died was a mistarget.

Let's examine Tery's role as a mason recruiter at the moment. The two highest profile recruits are you and I. If any disagrees, say something now. I am not in a masonry. And we have someone in the masonry claiming he targeting you. You questioned how Gorf knew Tery targeted you; why in the world would a recruiter not tell his buddy who he targets if he could potentially mistarget and die?

Now it's time for us to question your information. You claimed patriot, which is anti-cult specifically. I doubt anyone here can name a game where Patriot was used as a check to a mason recruiter. Likewise, I doubt a Patriot would be informed that they were recruited or attempted to be recruited the night before, which you have claimed to have known despite Gorf's claim. Occam's Razor calls bull****.

unvote vote: FrozenFlame

frozenflame is the play today. if he flips what he claims, gorf, i hope your suicide play was worth it. If ff flips scum, this does not clear gorf. in addition, if ff flips scum, it throws rr claim back into suspect. i want him to target us tonight if ff flips scum. if he flips town, idgaf, you're cleared for now.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Well now that has got to be one of the messiest claims I've ever seen.

Normally, I'd be all over your *** Gord and be calling you the **** out for trying a ****ty scum gambit.

Unfortunately there is a grain of truth in your otherwise piss poor claim that gives me reservations about whether you're just being ********, presumptuous town right now or actually gambiting.

You're right. Tery did target me last night. You're wrong about me being the reason he died though. You're also right that his recruitment failed, but I seriously have no idea how you would know that, because YOU didn't do the recruiting. Either you're just assuming the recruitment failed and concluded "well, whoever Tery targeted must be scum" or you're just scum making all this **** up.

If there is no vig left to claim, then I am absolutely right that you're the reason that he died. Mason recruiters don't just spontaneously die.

I told Tery that, RIGHT when he got the results of his recruitment, to quote-unquote tell me what was said in his role PM. He said that he failed to recruit you.

I'm Kage the Warrior, Town Patriot. I received notice that Tery tried to recruit me last night but that it failed for obvious reasons (for those of you who don't know, a Patriot is a role that is unable to be recruited). Someone else killed him, because it sure as hell wasn't me.

Tery was really pretty quiet on D1 and had very few connections. He put his stances out once, nice and color coded for us, but that didn't really have much depth. He was a very good indy kill IMO. I'd be really surprised if it turns out that a vig killed him. If you exist and you did though, clearing this up for us would be nice.

I told him specifically to make connections with every post he made, which he so definitely did. But, he had tennis tournaments, school, and a few other things that he had to balance, and he was only able to make a few large posts.

That's why I wanted AM to be more discreet about openly discussing the fact that Tery was a mason recruiter when he was asking adum about what he thought about Tery's death. I didn't want to be screaming Tery was a mason recruiter for everyone to hear because I wanted to see who thought he was NK'd and who thought he misrecruited. Knowing he couldn't have misrecruited, this was valuable information to em.

What information could you have possibly gathered from answers? I'd say that the standard answer from those that couldn't differentiate a Crew Leader from a Mason Recruiter would be that he got NK'd.

Though the facts I have do back up your claim Gord, I have a lot of problems with it.

First of how, how the hell would you know if Tery miscruited and died as a result?

/already answered.

Secondly, a mason recruiter that STARTS with a partner seems realllllly overpowered to me.

The same way that a patriot with notification of recruit attempt, WITH THE SPECIFIC NAME OF SAID RECRUITER, seems overpowered to me.

And thirdly, what exactly do you mean by "tery could have been either a cop or a mason"? I'm guessing you meant to say that Tery, if he misrecruted, could function like a suicidal "cop" so to speak, even though that's a horrid analogy.

What I mean is if it's a "guilty", there's no risk in whether or not crumbs would be found, cuz there's me to back em up. And if it's an "inno", then we get a mason bud.

Unfortunately you're right that he targeted me, and it made sense for Tery to target me since he had a town read on me D1.

You seem veeeeery dead set on letting people know that Tery did, in fact, target you.

I don't know what to think about this, but you Gord are very clearly either an extreme presumptuous townie who hasn't thought about what he actually knows and is just jumping the gun, or a gambitting scumbag who can't be ****ed to defend himself and decided to try some sloppy *** PR claim.

What I am is a townie who's mason recruiter died after failing to recruit you, and try'na rid of a potentially VERY dangerous scum bag.

Your complete and utter lack of crumbs of any sort (regarding the recruit target or you allegedly being in a masonry with Tery) is also pretty offsetting.

The only justification upon his posts is that he had nothing but pro town things to say about me. I told him specifically to make a town-town connection with me. I know that that isn't a whole lot, but it is what it is.

Vote: Gordito

Why don't you start over and this time, tell us what you actually know instead of what you think you know or what you're just simply pretending to know.

Hmm... There's possible reasoning for me being scum?

Why would I jump on you IMMEDIATELY at the beginning of the game, especially after the only suspicion I had of you all of yesterDay was the mechanics, which I made null due to the fact that you had asked questions? And the only time I made contact with you was to say that you making the HURR DURR comments made me . Isn't it curious that I had such a change of heart after coming into toDay?

How could I have known that Tery targeted you, WHICH YOU CONFIRM, if I wasn't mason'd with em?

Why didn't you respond to this yesterday at 6:01?

(lolzy but true) Does it seem logical that I'D attack YOU unless I was confident about it?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm gonna see what FF says before I vote.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

AM what do you make of this:

That's why I wanted AM to be more discreet about openly discussing the fact that Tery was a mason recruiter when he was asking adum about what he thought about Tery's death. I didn't want to be screaming Tery was a mason recruiter for everyone to hear because I wanted to see who thought he was NK'd and who thought he misrecruited. Knowing he couldn't have misrecruited, this was valuable information to em.

?

 

[Dooms]

FF already defended himself

it was bad and it didn't get to the main point and it pretty much avoided the fact that Gord could very well be in a mason with Tery. There is no other way that he could know this.

Unvote
Vote: FrozenFlame

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@AM Gorf scum LMFAO.

/readin after FF's response right now.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@AM aside from my slowness, is there any other reason that you jumped the gun?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

FrozenFlame, I'm sure you know, Occam's Razor states that the simplest solution is often the best/right solution. Your post fails to take into account so many variables, it's not even credible. Tery died last night by an SK's hand.

Bull**** Detected

Tery was a threat to no man. The only people that couldn't talk him down in Lylo are Joey and Red Ruy. SK is much better served shooting players who can threaten him and leaving more worthless players for engame (such as tery). Mafia shot J, no miss about it. The only one shooting Tery is a bad vig weeding inactives but even then it makes more sense to remove purple or bean****. The only other feasible way for Tery to have died was a mistarget.

You accuse me of going against Occam's Razor but I'm not. I AM following Occam's Razor. I just happen to have more information that you on the subject and since I KNOW that Tery couldn't have died as a result of targeting me, the most simple solution is that somebody killed him. And since I know somebody killed him, since I have to guess between scum, vig, and indy, based on how I'd predict these three parties to behave (given they all exist in the game), my best guess is that an indy killed Tery.

Just because you think that an indy killer should play in "X" way and be eliminating people they take to be endgame threats from the get go, doesn't mean that every indy killer ever will play that way. YOU are the one failing to take other variables into consideration, whereas I have missed none, thought I'd love to hear you substantiate your claim that apparently I'm missing so many of them, yet you list absolutely none.

Killing people with very few or weak connections and few posts is a perfectly reasonable and predictable strategy in the early game for an indy killer, since they want to typically draw as little attention to themselves as possible. The fact that you are completely overlooking this and just assuming YOUR TAKE on what an indy killer should do is the ONLY ANSWER completely destroys your claim that you're following Occum's Razor. You aren't following it, you're just ignoring other simple, clean, and reasonable solutions to the problem at hand and IGNORING THEM COMPLETELY.

Let's examine Tery's role as a mason recruiter at the moment. The two highest profile recruits are you and I. If any disagrees, say something now. I am not in a masonry. And we have someone in the masonry claiming he targeting you. You questioned how Gorf knew Tery targeted you; why in the world would a recruiter not tell his buddy who he targets if he could potentially mistarget and die?

You're completely missing the point. If Tery and gord really were masoned, and that's a BIG if, obviously Tery would tell Gord who he planned to target at night to recruit.

That DOES NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM CONFIRM FOR GORD AS AN ALLEGED MASON PARTNER HOW EXACTLY TERY DIED.

Gord would know that Tery targeted me. He would also know that Tery didn't live through the night. Where in that equation does Gord magically come into contact with information describing specifically why Tery didn't live? That's the whole ****ing point. He WOULDN'T KNOW, so he's making it up. Whether that's because he's just jumping to conclusions based on his limited info as an actual townie or just BSing the whole deal is the question here.

Now it's time for us to question your information. You claimed patriot, which is anti-cult specifically. I doubt anyone here can name a game where Patriot was used as a check to a mason recruiter. Likewise, I doubt a Patriot would be informed that they were recruited or attempted to be recruited the night before, which you have claimed to have known despite Gorf's claim. Occam's Razor calls bull****.

Patriot is anti-cult specifically? Really?

Please direct me to your source for that statement.

And while you at it, please link me to a game on SWF where a patriot was used as an anti-cult mechanism specifically.

Last time I checked, Patriot is a role that is simply anti-recruiting. That means, mason recruiters, cults, mentors, Yakuzass you name it.

Again, you aren't using Occam's Razor. You're blatantly disregarding equally plausible scenarios and explanations based on your own completely fallacious assumptions. The fact that you can even name specifically the likely mechanic that the patriot is serving in this game and then go ahead and just disregard it because you've never seen it before exemplifies this. YOU EVEN SAID BEFORE THAT IF GORDS ROLE IS LEGIT THEN IT IS OP! Don't you think it makes sense for a role like, oh idk, PATRIOT to exist in a game where a mason recruiter starts off with an advantage in order to like, oh, idk, balance things out?

Like seriously, you need to sit down and look at what facts you actually have and what are actually plausible scenarios. You're ignoring so much for no good reason and it's kind of pathetic.

If there is no vig left to claim, then I am absolutely right that you're the reason that he died. Mason recruiters don't just spontaneously die.

No, you aren't.

Yeah they don't just spontaneously die. Thanks genius. But obviously the ONLY TWO WAYS a mason recruiter can die are if a vig kills them or they misrecruit right? Like there's absolutely NO WAY that an indy killer or mafia could kill a mason recruiter ever. Like mason recruiters are bullet proof to those abilities, right?

Do I sound ****ing ******** yet? Because that's what YOU sound like.

I told Tery that, RIGHT when he got the results of his recruitment, to quote-unquote tell me what was said in his role PM. He said that he failed to recruit you.

wtfamireading.jpg

Tery failed to recruit me pre-game? Because you said you got that info in his role PM.

Actually ya know what, since you can't express yourself for ****, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

So what you're saying is you asked Tery what the results of his N1 action were. You're saying that Tery got a response from X1 before the night was over and before he died (because if he told you after he got the notice saying he died, that'd be cheating. Assuming you guys were actually masoned which I still highly doubt) saying that his recruitment failed. And then he told you this in private.

So you guys think that it's perfectly normal for someone to get confirmation of what happened with their night action before all night actions are resolved and day phase begins, which would allow people who died in the night to talk to people if they had the opportunity to, which would allow people who shouldn't have ever received the info they had because they'd be dead, to spread that information, BUT it ISN'T OK for me to receive notification at the start of the day from X1 that I was targeted for recruitment and that it failed.

Impressive double standard you have there.

But even beyond the fact that what you're claiming to know doesn't make any sense, you're still exaggerating what you allegedly know.

You're claiming to know that Tery targeted me AND that him targeting me was the reason for his death.

Did you get a message from X1 saying that? Did he PM you saying "Yo gord, Tery targeted FF but FF was scum so he died"?

No, he ****ing didn't. And unless you DID get that message, you don't ****ing KNOW ****. You're lying, whether you're town OR scum.

Here are our two scenarios:

Town Gord:

Tery said he was gonna target me, and told Gord this. Tery didn't make it through the night. MAYBE Tery was actually able to tell Gord that his recruitment failed (which is would if he targeted me, since I'm a patriot). Day 2 starts and Tery is dead.

Gord fallaciously concludes that dead Tery MUST mean Frozenscum when in reality it ACTUALLY means Patriot frozen in conjunction with a killer killing Tery the same night. Gord has absolutely NO WAY OF KNOWING the exact reason why Tery died, yet he is claiming to. He's a lying townie in this case.

Scum Gord:

Gord may or may not have killed Tery at night. Gord sees Tery flip Crew Leader. Gord figures out that this probably means he is a Mason Leader. Mason Leader's usually start alone, and since there has only been one night, there is no way anyone could have been recruited into the masonry with Tery in order to confirm or deny whether or not Tery got a successful recruit or failed to recruit, the previous night (since Killing comes before Recruiting via NAR). Knowing that pretending to be Tery's starting mason partner cannot be CC'd or verified in any way, Gord claims it, and then just bull****s that I was Tery's target and the reason he died, even though he actually has no idea Tery targeted me (unless he also has some tracking or watching ability). He happens to be right that Tery targeted me (not hard to predict, since Tery had me as a strong town read D1). Because he's scum and really doesn't have ANY information, he doesn't know what info he would actually likely have in his faked position and overstretches what he would ACTUALLY theoretically know, thus saying stupid **** like OMG FROZEN IS WHY TERY DIED DERP DERP.

In BOTH scenarios Gord is lying. I have not. Gord has inconsistencies in his claim. I do not. Anyone seeing a trend here?

What information could you have possibly gathered from answers? I'd say that the standard answer from those that couldn't differentiate a Crew Leader from a Mason Recruiter would be that he got NK'd.

Yeah that is the standard answer. I'm not looking for the standard answer. Are you that dense? Obviously I was watching to see if anyone argued with conviction either for possibility that Tery was killed or for the possibility that he did a misrecruit (as I said to AM, "****ed up")

/already answered.

Nah, you didn't actually. You can keep pretending to know these things though. Only makes it easier for me to figure out if you're really town or not. I explained how you have no way of knowing this above.

The same way that a patriot with notification of recruit attempt, WITH THE SPECIFIC NAME OF SAID RECRUITER, seems overpowered to me.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I was told that I was targeted for recruitment. I didn't get Tery's name, but based on his D1 play AND his flip it's pretty obvious it was him who did it.

And how is that overpowered exactly? I'd love to hear you argue that my role is as overpowered as your alleged role.

You seem veeeeery dead set on letting people know that Tery did, in fact, target you.

Because he did and I have no reason to lie. Do you have a problem with that?

What I am is a townie who's mason recruiter died after failing to recruit you, and try'na rid of a potentially VERY dangerous scum bag.

No, that's what you're pretending to be and we have no way of verifying it other than lynching you. Furthermore, you've been proven to be lying about what you actually allegedly know. And I'm the one who's dangerous? Go figure.

The only justification upon his posts is that he had nothing but pro town things to say about me. I told him specifically to make a town-town connection with me. I know that that isn't a whole lot, but it is what it is.

Yep, it is what it is. Lofty, weak, useless ****. This is why your claim is sloppy as ****.

Hmm... There's possible reasoning for me being scum?

Why would I jump on you IMMEDIATELY at the beginning of the game, especially after the only suspicion I had of you all of yesterDay was the mechanics, which I made null due to the fact that you had asked questions? And the only time I made contact with you was to say that you making the HURR DURR comments made me . Isn't it curious that I had such a change of heart after coming into toDay?

Wait, how is going from "attacking FF on Day 1" to "attacking FF on Day 2" a change of heart?

Do you even know what that means?

And sorry, it isn't my burden of proof to explain for you why you would decide to make such a ****ty claim and try to get me lynched, whether your are town or scum.

How could I have known that Tery targeted you, WHICH YOU CONFIRM, if I wasn't mason'd with em?

/facepalm

I've explained this in my two scenarios above, but the point is you DIDN'T HAVE TO KNOW TERY ACTUALLY TARGETED ME LAST NIGHT TO MAKE THIS CLAIM OF YOURS.

If you are actually his starting mason partner, then yeah, you would know. I've explained this.

But if you were scum you could STILL MAKE THE CLAIM. Mason recruiters don't typically start with partners. I've never seen that before and I'm sure no one else in this game has either. As scum and knowing this, and knowing that Tery was a mason recruiter based on his flip, you would KNOW that he could not have possible recruited anybody into his masonry successfully because he either A.) Misrecruited or B.) Was NK'd, which comes BEFORE RECRUITMENT in NAR.

With this knowledge you can safely claim to be his partner, since it would be completely unverifiable since no one else could possibly have entered into a masonry with Tery. It's really not that hard to understand.

Why didn't you respond to this yesterday at 6:01?

Why didn't you respond to me at 12:01 last night?

(lolzy but true) Does it seem logical that I'D attack YOU unless I was confident about it?

No it doesn't, but if you are town you obviously didn't think clearly about all the info you really had and thus were confident for the wrong reasons, or you are scum and were confident about this gambit OR someone else is pulling the strings and told you to do it who WAS confident.

 

[Xivii]

Ok sure i guess

 

[Purple]

This piece right here got me

The same way that a patriot with notification of recruit attempt, WITH THE SPECIFIC NAME OF SAID RECRUITER, seems overpowered to me.

If anyone could tell me if patriots do in fact, get notified upon recruit attempts, then I'd probably STILL be leaning towards FF's lynch due to statistically speaking, FF's POV is absolutely absurd.

vote: FrozenFlame[/b[