Melee Fox vs. Meta Knight

[mariofanpm12]

I'm not sure if this has been asked before, or if this is extremely obvious, but...

Who, in your opinion, would win between Melee's Fox (with all his Shine tricks and Melee's ATs intact) and Meta Knight (with his high priority and almost inexistent lag).

Just food for thought. If this shouldn't have been made, feel free to lock it.

Also, this isn't meant as a Melee/ Brawl comparison. But it may be considered one... I hope not!

And for those wondeirng what the conditions would be...
It would first be in Brawl, without L-canceling, wavedashing, and hitstun but with the Brawl physics
Then in Melee, with faster gameplay, more ATs, the same Melee physics, etc.

I'd say Fox wins both, but in Brawl he'd barely win.

 

[Deleted member]

melee fox would ******* him horribly. MK in melee mechanics would be like young link without projectiles and his up B would suddenly not own everything.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

actually MK in melee mechanics would be cool,

Mk could then Wavedash, properly DR etc.

Then if you just transfer MK his priority and all such things, it's wierd because Hitstun should MK Much better.

Mk is suited for aerial play He'd Gimp Fox easy but fox wouldn't do the same.

 

[MyNameIsRyan]

Melee Fox IMO. He is somewhat faster and i have pretty much masterd him.

 

[Sosuke]

Melee fox.
Anyone in Melee could probably do pretty good.
But the recoverys would suck.
Thats the only place MK would win.

 

[PillowPants]

if meta was IN melee as he is now ( in brawl ) , he would **** fox no contest, now shiek vs meta that would b a match

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Melee Marth vs. Brawl Meta would be amazing.

 

[PenUmbra]

Fox couldn't shine gimp MK, Meta's recovery is too good. Fox would have to outright kill MK.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

In the same mechanics I say Meta

in their individual I'd say ??? Fox can hit hard still but MK is an aerial character who doesn't really need to touch the ground except periodically >.>

 

[ChaosKnight]

lmao this all i have to say since he flys like kirby

Up throw up air up air up air .... im srry Metaknight would utterly get destroyed by melee fox

 

[cykofox]

yeah meta knight would gimp da **** out of dat fox, no contest.

 

[MarKO X]

In Brawl, I'd give the battle to Melee Fox, simply because Brawl Fox, while good, definitely feels nerfed (if I'm wrong, feel free to teach me). Melee Fox would have a lot of advantages on his side, despite the physics engine that is Brawl, and would probably recover better.

In Melee, I'd still give the fight to Melee Fox. MK's lightweight would be more of a disadvantage to him in Melee, and while he has no lag on his attacks, Melee Fox was pretty quick with it on the ground as well, and L-cancelling will bring him up to speed with MK's non-existent lag. Oh yeah, and ledgecamping? Punishable by law in Melee unless you're really really good at it.

And for the record, Melee Shiek would just fair the snot out of MK until he decides to die.

Also, Melee Marth has incredible range, both with his attacks and his grab. (never forget that he magically has the 4th longest range grab in Melee).

MK woulda been cool in Melee, but I doubt that this MK (brawl MK) could show up to be higher tier than the high and top tiers of Melee. He'd still probably put up good matchups against them though.

 

[1048576]

Melee Fox. So much faster because Melee is so much faster.

 

[super-7]

melee fox FTW would kill meta at 80% with a direct up smash
melee fox was just to **** good

 

[smashbot226]

Smash Pika.

 

[Sosuke]

melee fox FTW would kill meta at 80% with a direct up smash

HAHAHAHAHA.
I remember that crap. Oh man haha this thread is done.

 

[Rhubarbo]

In a battle between each other, it would depend which physics are applied on which character. But in terms of how much of a lead they have in #1 spot, Meta Knight has a much greater advantage over Brawl's cast than Fox had over Melee's cast.

 

[dankblak3]

^^^ lots of truth in that

 

[Zodiac]

Melee fox would ****ing destroy meta knight without question, one upsmash or up air up throw on that floaty ******* would send him home. not mention that but he could hang on the ledge and do perfect shine spikes to keep him from getting back up.

 

[TKD]

I once thought of this and laughed uncontrollably.

Metaknight would completely destroy every character in Melee. I mean wow, in a Melee environment with no airdodging, and given Metaknight's recovery in a game where edgeguarding gets you 75% of you KOs, and an awesomely broken Mach Tornado, wow.

Fox wasn't even broken. The other 3 top 4 characters went even against him. His only difference is that he's the only one without a counter, and the other 3 had one light counter each.

 

[The Director]

I don't give a **** who would win in a fight between the two, but I called MK being the (Melee) Fox of Brawl...but he can fly.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Hold it!

If you claim Brawl Meta Knight is better than Melee Fox then you don't really have a grasp on the Melee metagame. >_>

 

[Corigames]

It's impossible without declaring which variables are being used. Is it Melee physics? If so, can MK wavedash, L-cancel, or powershield reflect. Can he still glide, auto-sweetspot the edge, infinite cape, and running upsmash? If it's Brawl physics, can Fox do all his normal stuff? would he auto sweet-spot? Would he keep his weight but would be affected by the new fall speed?

Constants, give me some.

 

[Zodiac]

I once thought of this and laughed uncontrollably.

Metaknight would completely destroy every character in Melee. I mean wow, in a Melee environment with no airdodging, and given Metaknight's recovery in a game where edgeguarding gets you 75% of you KOs, and an awesomely broken Mach Tornado, wow.

Fox wasn't even broken. The other 3 top 4 characters went even against him. His only difference is that he's the only one without a counter, and the other 3 had one light counter each.

Congratulations you've just given brawlers a bad name. And your an idiot. Meta knight wouldnt stand a chance, period. Especially given the physics , I doubt he could even beat a low tier melee like Roy.

 

[RazeveX]

Congratulations you've just given brawlers a bad name. And your an idiot. Meta knight wouldnt stand a chance, period. Especially given the physics , I doubt he could even beat a low tier melee like Roy.

Well done; i now think your a monumental prick. Your last post just implied "road rage in every day life", but this pushed it over the line.

Someone makes a fair argument, and you call them an idiot (how old are you, 8?) and accuse them of stupid things like "giving brawlers a bad name". It's so sad that you can act childishly and swear at someone over something you can't prove.

What's worst is that you provide no evidence to support your argument whatsoever. To clear this up, here's a translation of your post.

YOUR A POOPOO HEAD BECAUSE I SAID SO

And for the record, no one knows because (as coreygames said) we have no constants, and are all thinking about different situations.

 

[Corigames]

BTW, calling someone out for calling someone out isn't going to do anything but make that person want to call you out. This is called, "A FLAME WAR." The theater of war is riddled with many battles, the first being small confrontations leading up to the big finish. However, moderators still exist and so do infractions. So use PMs or you will never finish the fight :D. also, forward some of it to me so I can fight too.

And, yes, this was my way of saying you guys should shut up and talk about the thread instead of each other.

Also... can I be a moderator?

 

[RazeveX]

BTW, calling someone out for calling someone out isn't going to do anything but make that person want to call you out. This is called, "A FLAME WAR." The theater of war is riddled with many battles, the first being small confrontations leading up to the big finish. However, moderators still exist and so do infractions. So use PMs or you will never finish the fight :D. also, forward some of it to me so I can fight too.

And, yes, this was my way of saying you guys should shut up and talk about the thread instead of each other.

Also... can I be a moderator?

True that, sorry. It just bothered me to see that stupid post...

Zodiac, if you want to reply, do it through pm.

And you should apply to be one (a mod that is), coreygames.

I'd like to offer more of an opinion on the subject, but i said everything i can in my last post. We can't make an educated decision; but if it's purely fun, I say Metaknight because he pwns.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

We have to assume each character has his native mechanics (this question doesn't make sense otherwise). That means that melee Fox can't do much to Meta Knight in the air because Meta Knight can just air dodge over and over, but melee Fox is stuck with the much weaker melee airdodge so Meta Knight would pretty much tear him a new one in the air. Given how fast melee Fox falls, Meta Knight might have some pretty stupid long combos on him just by juggling even though his attacks have way less hitstun than Fox's.

The main reason I have to give it to Meta Knight is the over the ledge game. If Fox is over the ledge, Meta Knight gets an all but automatic kill. Space animals are notoriously easy to gimp, and Meta Knight is notoriously good at gimping.

Also, consider another big factor. Brawl characters are bigger than melee characters. That means that Meta Knight probably outranges melee Fox, and melee Fox probably has a very hard time piercing the Mach Tornado.

Remember that while melee Fox will inflict a lot of shieldstun on Meta Knight, Meta Knight's can drop his shield after the shieldstun much faster than melee Fox (brawl shields are simply better than melee shields if the two are fighting against each other). That is another factor in Meta Knight's favor.

On some smaller notes, remember that Meta Knight can grab ledges while facing away but has more vulnerable points while on the ledge (contrary to popular belief, ledges are LESS safe in brawl since they have forced vulnerable frames), and Meta Knight can trip. Meta Knight could also have some fun by footstooling Fox though he probably doesn't need yet another gimp. Meta Knight also has much more lax timing in power shielding and can generally use it more effectively to counter direct hits, but he can't reflect projectiles with it like melee Fox can. Meta Knight also can't light shield if it matters. More importantly, only Fox has automatic smash DI which might serve to really weaken a few of Meta Knight's tricks (while some of Fox's stuff might be harder for Meta Knight to escape without it).

 

[Frown]

A Metaknight with Melee hitstun would make foxes cry.

 

[TheWii]

Meta Knight, but it would be close.

And if it was Melee physics Meta Knight would destroy Fox also. But its sad that Fox got so nerfed in Brawl, hes still good but not close to Melee Fox.

But I dont think Meta is the best charachter in Brawl, its Snake. MK is just popular. A good Snake is much harder compared to a good Meta Knight IMO.

 

[tha_carter]

Meta Knight (including brawls defensive mechanics) vs Fox (including his the ridiculous hit stun he takes).....

Lmao, i can see metaknight chaining tornados.... it'd be sad. Fox wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[kainsword]

There's little competition. For all the idiots here, Melee Fox + L-Cancel may have more lag than the auto lag-cancels of Brawl MetaKnight, but lag is inconsequential. Lag becomes a factor because it can prevent combos. Melee mechanics has much more hitstun, so it doesn't matter if Melee Fox has more lag, because he gets much more hitstun. You forget that lag only matters in how it's implemented in both games. MetaKnight may have near no lag, but he also has extremely low hitstun. Melee Fox + L-Cancel has a tad more lag but a lot more hitstun which makes up for the slightly less lag.

Anyone even suggesting MetaKnight doesn't exactly have a clear conception of what a super mastered Fox player is capable of. Not even the best MetaKnight player can keep up with Melee Fox combos.

MetaKnight has no combos. He's all approach and distance. MetaKnight can't follow up attacks to the extent Melee Fox can. MetaKnight won't get anything near Thunders Combo. Also take into consideration MetaKnight has good horizontal recovery. The best Fox players in the world get 60% or more of their kills from Up Airs, Up Smashes, and in some cases Up Tilts. The other 40% are from Shine Spiking and F Smashes. MetaKnight's ****ty light weight does not help at all when fighting Fox and instead becomes a major weakness.

Lighter character are more easily gimped by ceiling kills while heavy characters are more easily gimped by shine spiking kills because heavier characters tend to have worse recoveries. A Melee Fox player would be smart enough not to allow MetaKnight's strength to be a part of the match.

Watch Zelghandi to understand what I mean by how MetaKnight is completely outclassed.

 

[pure_awesome]

Meta Knight (including brawls defensive mechanics) vs Fox (including his the ridiculous hit stun he takes).....

Lmao, i can see metaknight chaining tornados.... it'd be sad. Fox wouldn't stand a chance.

If Metaknight and Melee Fox fought, the Metaknight would have to be a moron to even try to tornado. Any tornado attempt is going to be shielded, JC-shined, then waveshined into an upsmash. Given Metaknights light weight and the strength of Fox's Upsmash... one tornado and the MK would be afraid to so much as look at the B button.

Melee Fox would annihilate Metaknight. No contest.

And the hitstun would apply to Metaknight, not Fox. It is called hitstun, after all.

 

[mickeyk90]

Pika 64 would beast them 2v1

 

[Fletch]

If we're keeping the physics of each character's respective game, then no contest Fox would JV 5-stock scrub Metaknight. Hell the whole Melee cast could probably take down Metaknight in that engine.

 

[Vampirekain]

In a battle between each other, it would depend which physics are applied on which character. But in terms of how much of a lead they have in #1 spot, Meta Knight has a much greater advantage over Brawl's cast than Fox had over Melee's cast.

And a bit more than that!

 

[Wrath`]

How bout we strictly make MK melle physics MK.

No glide,up smash run,ect.

But shuttle loop could initiate a short glide, not a true glide*kinda like peach a had a float time period.*

I think fox would win(I hate to admit it) because no gliding and meta's jump falling faster would weaken his airial game, and fox would just ground game him to death once meta hit land.

 

[WilldaBeast]

An interesting question. It really depends on if they are in Brawl or Melee.

In Melee, I assume MK would still have his priority but his recovery would be nerfed and that makes me leans towards unchanged Fox, but, that also means MK has wave-dashing an shffling, which would make him much better with his already lagless aerials, not too mention l-canceling.

In Brawl, though, Fox would be floatier and have to rely on more aerials, and with the stale moves-negation. He would have a harder time pulling off forward smash kills, he would lose the wave shine and his amazing shffl skills and become more like Brawl Fox.

No matter how many times I analyze it, it seems MK would beat him, unless you don't adapt each chacter to each game, in which case the argument is a bit more difficult.

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

If it was Melee Physics? Metaknight would destroy him. >_>

*Pitcures Metaknight with Hitstun and L-Canceling*

.........

*Cries*

 

[PCHU]

Metaknight doesn't stand a chance.
I mean, sure, he's got multiple hits, combos, and a good edge game, but don't you think that Fox would utterly dominate?
Fox is pretty insane with his combos, and he's got a laser, something MK lacks.
Plus, Fox has the shine.
See?