Melee Air dodge VS Brawl Air dodge! Discuss, which one should be in Brawl+?

[NinjaFoxX]

And how exactly does BAD not allow that to happen? If you were to AD during those times then you would be sent to the bottom of the screen thus recovery would be extremely hard. You make it seem like BAD makes it easy to recover when that is not the case. Its the floatiness of brawl and the horrible ledges we have that make recovering so easy...not the air dodge. Seriously, its not that hard to force an Air dodge and its not that hard to capitalize on it. If you blame all your failed attempts at BAD, then you need to learn how to punish it.

If someone is recovering without a jump, BAD will not save them. What, are they going to air dodge your attack so they can fall to their doom? Your trying to assign MAD as the be all end all of all the problems in this game instead of allowing the mechanic responsible for that do its job. (we lack codes for some of them but thats not the point)

Ppl say that MAD is why you can't combo, no its hitstun
Now your saying you can get back from anywhere when the ledges and the floatiness make that happen not to mention that recoveries are generally better in this game anyway. Why would you even air dodge when you are level with the stage or below it anyway? Whats next, your going to say that MAD is suppose to fix the shield pressure in brawl?

this...

MAD adds more options for attack entries. Options like WD tilts/smashes(really cool for coming at someone backwards with a utilt entry like fox's), wavelands, spacing without having to enter the dash animation, platform dashing to airs, feints/fakes, extra forward movement before grapples, and waveslide up from the edge into an attack.

10wavedashes

 

[kupo15]

this...


10wavedashes

You did not counter my point. My point was, how does BAD not allow things like the vid to happen. I was not talking about wavedashing...

If you want more mobility, Dash dancing will provide more options without interfering with the air game

 

[Starscream]

So when are you going to be posting your video on how over powered Brawl wavedashing is? I'd actually really like to see it.

I have no problems with the concept of wavedashing, it should be a spacing and mindgame tool not the best form of movement for certain characters. If you were to chase your opponent from one side of FD to the other with Ganon and stacking wavedashes is faster than running then isn't there something wrong? Doing attacks while sliding is ridiculous and looks ridiculous as well, there needs to be some sort of limit for what you can and can't do and when you can do them out of a wavedash, I think Melee's wavedashing in that sense (and well pretty much every way) was perfect.

And the Melee devs didn't balance wavedashing accross the board because it wasn't an intended game mechanic. It's a physics exploit, they didn't design the game with wavedashing in mind. I'm all for wavedash length balance accross the board but not when that balance is making everyone slide around like ****ing Luigi.

 

[Swordplay]

With that modified air dodge, Link might actually be able to recover. Would you allow characters to up b after?

 

[NinjaFoxX]

You did not counter my point. My point was, how does BAD not allow things like the vid to happen. I was not talking about wavedashing...

If you want more mobility, Dash dancing will provide more options without interfering with the air game

scince i dont have the data/ability to study it myself ill give the best guess i can give:

from what ive seen so far,its the effect of the l-cancel, it seems easier to l-cancel with MAD than it is with BAD...something like that, sorry i kinda lack data to go on

besides, MAD wouldnt be worth it if you couldnt WD <-juat a little note

 

[zxeon]

You did not counter my point. My point was, how does BAD not allow things like the vid to happen. I was not talking about wavedashing...

If you want more mobility, Dash dancing will provide more options without interfering with the air game

Dash dancing is not wavedashing stop acting like it is or maybe you just don't know the difference. Because someone who did know would never make the statements you've made. I think you have something personal against the wavedash and you need to stop posting about it unless you have some actual proof to back up your outlandish claims.

 

[Team Giza]

Kupo wasn't saying it would provide the same options as wavedashing. He was just saying that dashdancing would provide more ground options without messing up the air game.

 

[kupo15]

Dash dancing is not wavedashing stop acting like it is or maybe you just don't know the difference. Because someone who did know would never make the statements you've made. I think you have something personal against the wavedash and you need to stop posting about it unless you have some actual proof to back up your outlandish claims.

Your funny zxeion. When did I ever say dash dancing and wavedashing were the same. They both add mobility don't they? Thats my point. How many times do I have to say I liked wavedashing in melee. Obviously not enough.

In a more air based game such as brawl, i dont know why you would limit the aerial options when they are easily countered if you know what your doing. Taking away the air options in brawl is like taking away WDing in melee..

 

[NinjaFoxX]

Kupo wasn't saying it would provide the same options as wavedashing. He was just saying that dashdancing would provide more ground options without messing up the air game.

you guys do know theat WDing can provide BOTH arieal and ground game improvements depending on the character? this is a quality that BAD lacks...

 

[kangaroo]

You did not counter my point. My point was, how does BAD not allow things like the vid to happen. I was not talking about wavedashing...

If you want more mobility, Dash dancing will provide more options without interfering with the air game

Being able to air dodge as you jump without it affecting your jump momentum is a powerful recovery tool. Also, I thought we agreed in the other thread that multiple air-dodges take away from the edge game.

 

[kupo15]

you guys do know theat WDing can provide BOTH arieal and ground game improvements depending on the character? this is a quality that BAD lacks...

No it takes away air options and freedom in an air based game. That is not an improvement in the air game.

Being able to air dodge as you jump without it affecting your jump momentum is a powerful recovery tool. Also, I thought we agreed in the other thread that multiple air-dodges take away from the edge game.

You only get one unless your a multi jumper then ADing off the stage does no good. As I said before, forcing an AD is not hard and is easily punished if you know what your doing.

I don't see how this is going to get anywhere. No one wants to budge at all...

 

[zxeon]

Your funny zxeion. When did I ever say dash dancing and wavedashing were the same. They both add mobility don't they? Thats my point. How many times do I have to say I liked wavedashing in melee. Obviously not enough.

In a more air based game such as brawl, i dont know why you would limit the aerial options when they are easily countered if you know what your doing. Taking away the air options in brawl is like taking away WDing in melee..

If you know the difference between the two stop trying to make dashdance(the ability to change directions during your initial dash animation) sound like it can do everyting wavedashing can. You're making yourself look like an idiot. Brawl+ needs wavedashing to give characters the ability to use **** near every one of thier moves to approach because for some just up smashing out of a run isn't cutting it. If you're going to make the game better offensively then you need something that dramatically increases attack options because Brawl's approach game consists of just dash attacks, obvious aerials, and running Usmashes.

You don't see this going anywhere? You are the one that won't budge. You won't even give the Hybrid airdodge(It's just like the Melee airdodge exept you can do everything after it except airdodge again) the time of day. A great compromise that brings the best of both worlds together. You haven't even put it on the code list yet even though it's been talked about in almost every brawl+ thread on the boards. Prove me wrong. I'm gonna go play some Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom.

 

[plasmatorture]

Isn't dashdancing in brawl already, just you have to input it like twice as fast as melee?

Or does it just look like dash dancing and not offer the same benefits?

 

[NinjaFoxX]

Isn't dashdancing in brawl already, just you have to input it like twice as fast as melee?

Or does it just look like dash dancing and not offer the same benefits?

its pretty much the same as it was in melee, but in regular brawl its kinda usless due to tripping but in brawl+, its as useful as it was in melee(combined with WDing of course makes it even more useful)

 

[kupo15]

If you know the difference between the two stop trying to make dashdance(the ability to change directions during your initial dash animation) sound like it can do everyting wavedashing can. You're making yourself look like an idiot. Brawl+ needs wavedashing to give characters the ability to use **** near every one of thier moves to approach because for some just up smashing out of a run isn't cutting it. If you're going to make the game better offensively then you need something that dramatically increases attack options because Brawl's approach game consists of just dash attacks, obvious aerials, and running Usmashes.

You don't see this going anywhere? You are the one that won't budge. You won't even give the Hybrid airdodge(It's just like the Melee airdodge exept you can do everything after it except airdodge again) the time of day. A great compromise that brings the best of both worlds together. You haven't even put it on the code list yet even though it's been talked about in almost every brawl+ thread on the boards. Prove me wrong. I'm gonna go play some Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom.

Zxeon. Wft is your problem? I am not talking about ****ing wave dashing right now. Im talking about ****ing air game and asking how BAD destroyed the stuff from the "you must recover" video. Shut up and actually read what Im saying and respond to that instead off forcing the topic to be about ****ing wave dashing. MAD affects two things, not one. Get that straight and know that Im talking about the one you are ignoring, the air game.

Also, my prediction is that if you want this to be successful or even have a chance to be successful tourney scene, MAD and maybe gravity codes can not be in the game. Why do I say this? It is because us, the brawl+ people are a small crowd. You have the remaining die hard melee people who are bigger than us, and you have the brawl crowd that is even bigger than that. A lot of brawl people despise brawl+ and shun it as it is so do you think the best chance at persuading them is by showing them a game thats radically different?

No. MAD may be more competitive brawl+ code set as far as matches go and it may add that layer of "challenge and development' that you want (which if you like in your group of friends, then np), but your the only people willing to go through that extra work. Heck, if your having a hard time convincing leafgreen, Giza and myself to like MAD who are brawl+ supporters, how do you expect to attract the bigger brawl crowd who already hates it? You only have the melee people who like MAD from melee but many of them have said to stick with BAD.

You need to use codes that don't entirely change up brawl if you want attract a large tourney scene. Brawl's metagame has been widely developed and no one wants that to be thrown out the window and no one wants to relearn the meta game and relearn how to play brawl. You probably don't know, but a tourney held Brawl+ on the side and it was received really poorly. The codes were MAD, gravity, manual L cancel. Even m2k trashed it as "worse than regular brawl" and I know windowl can back me up with the reaction to brawl+.

If you want to attract a big tourney scene, you need to use codes that support and accompany the already developed metagame...not one that throws it out the window and radically changes the game.

 

[zxeon]

Zxeon. Wft is your problem? I am not talking about ****ing wave dashing right now. Im talking about ****ing air game and asking how BAD destroyed the stuff from the "you must recover" video. Shut up and actually read what Im saying and respond to that instead off forcing the topic to be about ****ing wave dashing. MAD affects two things, not one. Get that straight and know that Im talking about the one you are ignoring, the air game.

Also, my prediction is that if you want this to be successful or even have a chance to be successful tourney scene, MAD and maybe gravity codes can not be in the game. Why do I say this? It is because us, the brawl+ people are a small crowd. You have the remaining die hard melee people who are bigger than us, and you have the brawl crowd that is even bigger than that. A lot of brawl people despise brawl+ and shun it as it is so do you think the best chance at persuading them is by showing them a game thats radically different?

No. MAD may be more competitive brawl+ code set as far as matches go and it may add that layer of "challenge and development' that you want (which if you like in your group of friends, then np), but your the only people willing to go through that extra work. Heck, if your having a hard time convincing leafgreen, Giza and myself to like MAD who are brawl+ supporters, how do you expect to attract the bigger brawl crowd who already hates it? You only have the melee people who like MAD from melee but many of them have said to stick with BAD.

You need to use codes that don't entirely change up brawl if you want attract a large tourney scene. Brawl's metagame has been widely developed and no one wants that to be thrown out the window and no one wants to relearn the meta game and relearn how to play brawl. You probably don't know, but a tourney held Brawl+ on the side and it was received really poorly. The codes were MAD, gravity, manual L cancel. Even m2k trashed it as "worse than regular brawl" and I know windowl can back me up with the reaction to brawl+.

If you want to attract a big tourney scene, you need to use codes that support and accompany the already developed metagame...not one that throws it out the window and radically changes the game.

Adding the MAD or HAD will not alienate anyone who already wants to play Brawl+. The whole point of Brawl+ is to change things to be more competitive. You can't hope to cater to scrubs because if it isn't the MAD or HAD they will find something else to complain about "the hitstun is too high" "Don't nerf the ledges". The people who are saying "Stop trying to make Brawl into Melee." are no fans of smash. The way you are trying to go about this is the wrong way to make a competitive game. When people want more they will come seek us out we don't need to hold to hold thier hands 'till then.

Oh, and **** me if I give two ****s about what M2K says.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

The argument that we shouldn't change the game too much to accommodate the existing metagame is a flawed argument. You cannot add things like hitstun and aerial lag canceling WITHOUT changing the metagame. Adding hitstun got rid of DDD and Falco's chain grab. That right there just rebalanced the tier lists. Adding L cancel gave slow characters a safe approach. Another huge change to the tier list. Don't lie to yourself that just because brawl air dodge is still in the game your game is somehow just an upgrade.

We are reinventing brawl. This project has gone well beyond something like simply removing tripping.

 

[kupo15]

lol you don't get it.

You need a game that is appealing to the people who are good at brawl (in this case they are "scrubs" in your book?) if you ever want this to have a shot at being popular and a shot at hopefully getting some sort of tourney recognition. Why? Because brawl is very popular and it has the most people in it. If you don't want the "scrubs" in brawl to come, then who do you think will make up the tourney scene? You can't just make a game and hope it will be competitive.

You need to advertise and you need to get peoples attention and I feel that radically changing the game to introduce people will not work. This is why I brought up that one tourney because it was an attempt to get people into brawl+ and it failed because it was radically different and this was in a MELEE tourney. So if you got everyone to hate brawl+ using MELEE codes (manual l canceling, MAD, gravity) to change the game to be more like melee, then good luck convincing brawl fanboys to like brawl+ using MAD. Your better off convincing people by making the game competitive without changing it too much.

So in short, if you want to attract people, use BAD because if you don't have people, there is no scene. And if there is no scene, who the **** cares about what codes we use?

 

[kangaroo]

Melee
-Higher gravity
-Harder to recover
-Ledge roll occupancy
-No reverse grabbing
-Small grabbing radius
-One time air dodge

Brawl
-Recovering is easier
-Floaty
-No ledge roll occupancy
-Reverse grabbing
-Bigger grab radius
-Infinite air dodging

BAD gives the person recovering more options. In many of the clips in the video, the person recovering had no choice but to recover a certain way and the edgeguarder used his technical skill to take advantage of this. Maybe in the end, MAD or BAD is a matter of personal preference but I still think MAD is the better choice. Brawl+ will need support from melee players. I'm not talking about the ones who absolutely despise any form of brawl, but the ones who do play it but were disappointed by the game's lack of competitiveness. I think many melee players would be willing to give brawl+ a chance, especially if we show that the game does reward technical skill. Zxeon is right that we aren't trying to convince the "brawl crowd". To many of them, even hacking the wii, especially for the sake of competitiveness, is simply unfathomable. The people who are saying "Stop trying to make Brawl into Melee." are no fans of smash. Melee vets are the ones who control the tourney scene.

 

[Osi]

Adding the MAD or HAD will not alienate anyone who already wants to play Brawl+. The whole point of Brawl+ is to change things to be more competitive. You can't hope to cater to scrubs because if it isn't the MAD or HAD they will find something else to complain about "the hitstun is too high" "Don't nerf the ledges". The people who are saying "Stop trying to make Brawl into Melee." are no fans of smash. The way you are trying to go about this is the wrong way to make a competitive game. When people want more they will come seek us out we don't need to hold to hold thier hands 'till then.

Oh, and **** me if I give two ****s about what M2K says.

MAD does alienate people... just as it did in melee, so it's nothing new. The only issue is that many of the people who would want MAD are the melee players, and why switch to brawl+ (a new tourney scene in the first stages) when they can just stay on melee with the skill set they already have? There are some people out there who do not wish to learn WDing, and having it in the game will be the breaking point on playing brawl+ or not.

I am in support of MAD simply because IMO in the long run it will help brawl+ become a deeper game than BAD (this is my opinion of course). I am sure it will make some people see it as melee 2.0, and that's ok because not everyone will be pleased. I believe the hitstun code leading to big combos will alienate more brawl players than MAD ever would. I doubt a code like MAD will have another chance to get into the game a year or two from now when the standard is more set.

There is also no need to say you don't care about what M2K says in that manner. He is only one person, but a large piece in the current brawl scene, so he will have some impact on brawl+. I am interested to hear the details on the codes they used, and who participated in the tourney, Kupo mind linking a thread for it if there was one? I'd love to check it out.

 

[kupo15]

Osi. thank you very much for not over interpreting. Your last paragraph was spot on.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197124

Start at post #454

Codes used:

Brawls default hitstun
manual l canceling
MAD
Gravity
no trip

 

[Osi]

Osi. thank you very much for not over interpreting. Your last paragraph was spot on.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197124

Start at post #454

Codes used:

Brawls default hitstun
manual l canceling
MAD
Gravity
no trip

Thanks a bunch for the link! I'm reading through the pages now.

Interesting they used the gravity/damage codes. Those are the ones which impact the game more than any others I have seen. Grav/damage literally impacts every single movement in the match, so that's big to put in (I really doubt any set of codes for tourney standard would include it actually because it changes brawl so much instead of just one aspect in brawl). I use that same code set almost, but without the grav mod.

I'm interested to see how the community receives brawl+ without gravity codes in it. I know some of my crew hated high gravity when we tried it out in one code set.

I do think it is important to not alienate the current brawl players too. By creating this fixed brawl it will hurt (if not kill off) their scene if it becomes a success.

 

[kupo15]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5721431&postcount=456
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5722116&postcount=458

They also weren't used to the Wavedashing and scar liked brawl+ only because Falcon can combo and MAD doesn't provide combos. No one said they enjoyed it because they could wavedash. They all said they were too used to the way they play brawl and they hated not being able to AD out of things. This is why I think that brawl+ will be better welcomed if the overall movement doesn't change as much. I not against DD because it adds movement without changing the way people are used to the game and as you can see, people like things to be familiar also. You can have brawl being more competitive and familiar at the same time.

This is why I think you will have better success introducing ppl to brawl+ with BAD and no gravity

 

[cobaltblue]

I wonder how many of the people arguing for MAD are doing so only because they refuse to adopt to a new system.

 

[Osi]

I wonder how many of the people arguing for MAD are doing so only because they refuse to adopt to a new system.

I mainly want it for ground game. If we could have BAD in the air with WD then I would gladly take that. BAD/MAD have some nice qualities on both sides, but I do think MAD needs up B enabled after AD for recoveries in brawl to keep it balanced. Some characters are gimped too easily without it (Ike is a perfect example).

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5721431&postcount=456
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5722116&postcount=458

They also weren't used to the Wavedashing and scar liked brawl+ only because Falcon can combo and MAD doesn't provide combos. No one said they enjoyed it because they could wavedash. They all said they were too used to the way they play brawl and they hated not being able to AD out of things. This is why I think that brawl+ will be better welcomed if the overall movement doesn't change as much. I not against DD because it adds movement without changing the way people are used to the game and as you can see, people like things to be familiar also. You can have brawl being more competitive and familiar at the same time.

This is why I think you will have better success introducing ppl to brawl+ with BAD and no gravity

I do agree that BAD would help people ease their way into brawl+, but in the long run I think it would hurt the game. MAD/WD is a very different aspect to the game, and it's not the same as melee MAD/WD was leading it to feel a little awkward at first. I think after some time on brawl+ with it (maybe 3-4 months on a set standard) the community will be use to MAD/WD and incorperate it into their gameplay.

 

[kangaroo]

If someone chooses not to play brawl+ solely because of WDing, then I think it's not worth it to even try to convince that person. However, I think someone who went through the trouble of hacking his wii to make brawl competitive would be reasonable enough not to dismiss the game because of WDing. Keep in mind that you do NOT have to WD if you don't want to. There were good players in melee who didn't WD or used it rarely. WDing in brawl+ could simply provide a different style of play for some people. I also have yet to see any proof that MAD makes the air game imbalanced. Like I said, the two systems could simply be a matter of personal preference. Also, I remember Gimpyfish was fairly excited about the MAD code when it first came out, although I'm not sure how he feels about brawl+ now.

 

[MBlaze]

If someone chooses not to play brawl+ solely because of WDing, then I think it's not worth it to even try to convince that person. However, I think someone who went through the trouble of hacking his wii to make brawl competitive would be reasonable enough not to dismiss the game because of WDing. Keep in mind that you do NOT have to WD if you don't want to. There were good players in melee who didn't WD or used it rarely. WDing in brawl+ could simply provide a different style of play for some people. I also have yet to see any proof that MAD makes the air game imbalanced. Like I said, the two systems could simply be a matter of personal preference. Also, I remember Gimpyfish was fairly excited about the MAD code when it first came out, although I'm not sure how he feels about brawl+ now.

It's the air dodge itself I oppose, not WDing because MK, D3, Kirby and others would **** us all, MAD just isn't for Brawl. Now if we could get 1 Brawl air dodge with directional movement for WDing..... that would pwn... lol

 

[kupo15]

If someone chooses not to play brawl+ solely because of WDing, then I think it's not worth it to even try to convince that person. However, I think someone who went through the trouble of hacking his wii to make brawl competitive would be reasonable enough not to dismiss the game because of WDing. Keep in mind that you do NOT have to WD if you don't want to. There were good players in melee who didn't WD or used it rarely. WDing in brawl+ could simply provide a different style of play for some people. I also have yet to see any proof that MAD makes the air game imbalanced. Like I said, the two systems could simply be a matter of personal preference. Also, I remember Gimpyfish was fairly excited about the MAD code when it first came out, although I'm not sure how he feels about brawl+ now.

But here is the problem. You didn't have to WD in melee (aniki) because it wasn't the same for every character. In brawl, WDing is much more homogenized and it really helps everyone out that you would be at a disadvantage to NOT use. Even if you choose to not WD, it still affects your air game and seeing how brawl is mostly an air game, I think we need to preserve it. Imagine MK with MAD. He already is the king of aerial punishment in BAD that he will still dominate since your aerial freedom is limited.

So you are hit up in the air, you will be punished to no end since an AD leaves you vulnerable and an even easier target to hit especially with things being more floaty. I don't feel that changing the air game balances the game but still makes it unbalanced. Without the freedom to escape in the air, MK will still be the best choice.

 

[kangaroo]

Honestly, at this point, I think people should just use whichever system they want. It's too early to tell how either would actually affect the game (or specific characters) in the long run. The only way to know is to experiment by playing many more games. I just don't like it when people insist we should scrap MAD and then theorize about how it would break the game in certain ways when it's impossible to determine any of that at right now.

 

[Finns7]

You didnt have to wd in melee with some chars wd (link) it was pointless only being useful in certain situations.

Normal Brawl is a air game but why cant brawl+ be both, WD adds to the ground game, and other aspects.

 

[kupo15]

why do you need all the options of wavedashing anyway? As I said before, if you allow people to choose with HAD, the person who can WD will be in the advantage so there is no point in giving players options when WDing is the best option. If you don't want to mess up the air game and only add ground options, dash dancing provides plenty of options and its not something you really need to learn which will not turn ppl off as much.

 

[MBlaze]

We need that 1 BAD. xD

 

[Finns7]

WD was a turnoff aswell as hitsun (in brawl of course) until I got used to it. So far I have not encounterd any major damaging effects to the airgame using MAD. If Im off the edge against a pro at the highest levels of play and he is meta im dead anyway using BAD, MAD.

I do wish the Mad was modified though, because of this there should be some options imo.

 

[zxeon]

why do you need all the options of wavedashing anyway? As I said before, if you allow people to choose with HAD, the person who can WD will be in the advantage so there is no point in giving players options when WDing is the best option. If you don't want to mess up the air game and only add ground options, dash dancing provides plenty of options and its not something you really need to learn which will not turn ppl off as much.

So what you are saying is that for all characters all the time every time WDing is a better option than a running attack, Usmash out of a run, and aerial attacks? Because if that's not the case I just poked a big hole in your arguement.

 

[kupo15]

So what you are saying is that for all characters WDing is a better option than a running attack, Usmash out of a run, and aerial attacks? Because if that's not the case I just poked a big hole in your arguement.

You tend to be very narrow minded zxeon instead of looking at the big picture. WDing provides many options as well as an excellent form of movement. Don't you agree that this is better than the normal movement that one would be at a disadvantage to not use it? As far as DD. It provides more mobility but its limited by not providing the surplus of options that WD provides which is good. So you don't have to DD to win if you don't want to.

Its all a matter of personal opinion right now. I choose to not play in a game where you need to WD to win because its unnecessary. You don't need wavedashing to make the game competitive. I feel that the aerial freedom you have in brawl is good and MAD takes that piece of the game away. Your trying to convert brawl from an air game to a ground game which goes against the way its made. There is a difference between using hacks to tailor to the gameplay and hacks used to completely change it.

We are not going to get anywhere seeing how right now, we only have enough codes to play the game we like so there is no sense in arguing

Finns: Hit stun was never a turnoff.

 

[zxeon]

You tend to be very narrow minded zxeon instead of looking at the big picture. WDing provides many options as well as an excellent form of movement. Don't you agree that this is better than the normal movement that one would be at a disadvantage to not use it? As far as DD. It provides more mobility but its limited by not providing the surplus of options that WD provides which is good. So you don't have to DD to win if you don't want to.

Its all a matter of personal opinion right now. I choose to not play in a game where you need to WD to win because its unnecessary. You don't need wavedashing to make the game competitive. I feel that the aerial freedom you have in brawl is good and MAD takes that piece of the game away. Your trying to convert brawl from an air game to a ground game which goes against the way its made. There is a difference between using hacks to tailor to the gameplay and hacks used to completely change it.

We are not going to get anywhere seeing how right now, we only have enough codes to play the game we like so there is no sense in arguing

Finns: Hit stun was never a turnoff.

You know the what funny thing about your answer? There is no way you would actually know! You haven't used the MAD in Brawl+ for any extended period of time so how can you tell me what the game will become? The MAD is a little bit restricting in Brawl that's why I keep having to mention the HAD(Melee airdodging except you can do anything after the airdodge except airdodge again and you keep your momentum) because I am actually looking to better the game and compromise rather than pushing my personally influenced agenda on people. BTW you still haven't added the HAD to the code list.

 

[kupo15]

You know the what funny thing about your answer? There is no way you would actually know! You haven't used the MAD in Brawl+ for any extended period of time so how can you tell me what the game will become? The MAD is a little bit restricting in Brawl that's why I keep having to mention the HAD(Melee airdodging except you can do anything after the airdodge except airdodge again and you keep your momentum) because I am actually looking to better the game and compromise rather than pushing my personally influenced agenda on people. BTW you still haven't added the HAD to the code list.

I have extensively tested MAD btw. And fine, ill add HAD if it shuts you up. Im not trying to push my agenda, you just assume I do. Do I have to add IMO after every sentence? I highly doubt PW will ever edit that code if he didn't want to edit his l canceling code. Besides, we have other codes that take more priority that HAD atm which I feel like im pulling teeth to get done.

Seriously, idk who the smart person was who suggested MAD before shield stun. We would have a much better game right now if shield stun and MAD would switch places...

 

[zxeon]

I have extensively tested MAD btw. And fine, ill add HAD if it shuts you up. Im not trying to push my agenda, you just assume I do. Do I have to add IMO after every sentence? I highly doubt PW will ever edit that code if he didn't want to edit his l canceling code. Besides, we have other codes that take more priority that HAD atm which I feel like im pulling teeth to get done.

Seriously, idk who the smart person was who suggested MAD before shield stun. We would have a much better game right now if shield stun and MAD would switch places...

HAD is an easy fix. You just remove a bunch of lines from the MAD code the first HAD beta code.

 

[kupo15]

seeing how MAD is programmed, I highly doubt that is going to work...besides, if PW is not willing to fix it, its not going to happen

 

[zxeon]

seeing how MAD is programmed, I highly doubt that is going to work...besides, if PW is not willing to fix it, its not going to happen

I know it can be modified that way. Modifing a existing code is a lot faster and easier than whipping one up from scratch.