Megaman X: Day of Death. ~ EVERYBODY DIED. SCUM WINS. GAME OVER.

[Circus]

Vote: Terywj

**** it, make this happen.

I'm going to go eat dinner. I'll be back on soon. I'll probably be online and here until deadline.

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

Regarding frozen:

I don't actively support his lynch at this point for I feel that his responses to the accusations have been stronger than adum's points. Once again I'd like to remind you that it does not excuse how carefree you've been playing up to this point. If you look at it from the outside how would you have looked at yourself? You have hardly been of any use - RL johns or not - and what you have offered us did not do you a lot of favor either. I mean it took a wagon to L-2 for you to actually take part in any relevant discussion and to even present your own suspects. That alone makes me think that there's a good chance that you're going to be a liability - something I wouldn't say to you on many occasions.
If you were lynched toDay I wouldn't complain about the result at all regardless of your flip - even though you're not my primary suspect and I won't actively push your lynch atm.

 

[Xatres]

But seriously, Circus wants to lynch Tery. You wanted to lynch FF, and now Boat. Raz probably still wants Rajam's head on a platter. OS is being noncommittal and telling everyone just to follow you. No one is really going to be committed to these votes, and I guarantee you it will be harder on town tomorrow if we cram something in no one really agrees with.

 

[Inferno3044]

Boatchouli to me is the best possible choice atm. He hasn't done ****. I've never been sold on the Tery case even though I have taken in mind that his random comment regarding AB is rather odd.

Nich you haven't said much recently. I see you in the room. Speak up.

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

Regarding the lynch toDay:

Unfortunately we can't contribute to this anymore but I strongly encourage people to lynch Raziek. If you disagree vote for Boatchouli at least - one of these lynches seriously should happen toDay. Circus, I doubt you can convince enough people to switch to Tery right in time [including this playerslot] so you're better off making your mind up between Boat and Raziek.

If all else fails and nothing else works you should go with a frozen lynch [this is @everybody].

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I messed up the quote for this paragraph in my last post:

And yes, I absolutely was/am piggybacking. Get over it. I made that post when we had less than 12 hours before deadline. I was and still am basically in "prevent no lynch" mode. You had 3 votes on you when I voted you, one being cleared AB and one being OS, the game's most vocal and forceful player all Day. Like it or not, your lynch was the one that was happening, and still probably is.

This was a Circus quote. Sorry for the confusion.

Gheb I'll discuss my play in this game with you soon, I have a meeting to go to though. Should be back before 9.

Unvote

Vote: Terywj

 

[Nicholas1024]

Big post coming, give me a bit. (I've had to catch up on all these posts, and there's some analysis I need to do on who to vote.)

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

@AB: Do you find it at all suspect that after pushing hard for your lynch and repeatedly telling you that your case against FF was garbage, that OS would just turn around and tell everyone to follow you blindly? Do you think that's at all opportunistic? Who benefits from town following one player without debate?

Or how about this: Didn't you tell everyone not to trust a word OS says? Aren't you still making it a point to show that his case against you was terrible? Do you think you should be comfortable with people following his lead on the FF wagon?

I think Overswarm is awful at hunting scum and him overrating himself prevents him from getting better. Never in my life would I encourage anybody to listen to Overswarms scumpicks. My opinion.

Regardless of what I think it has nothing to do with how I look at whether he's scum or not. Your points against him have merit and I agree that a town read - let alone "obvtown" - is highly uneducated and should be reconsidered. I'm null on him at the moment.

Big post coming, give me a bit. (I've had to catch up on all these posts, and there's some analysis I need to do on who to vote.)

Don't make big posts if you can say the same in a small post. I know you can so please make a small post and not a big one.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Man, what on earth has happened with this thread? Time to take some action.

1) This Frozenflame wagon is HORRIBLE. Seriously, is ANYONE on there aside from "Well, Adumb said so and OS said to follow him." Anyone? Frozen looks to be in much the same position I was in D1 of FE. Somewhat inactive, and then a wagon pops up on him literally out of nowhere. Yes, he's emotional, and yes, he's lashing out.

That doesn't make him scum. In fact, in FE I did the exact same thing. (You should know this Adumb, you were there and you're in fact the one who called me out on it!)

@Everyone who voted Frozenflame:
I want your reasons for voting him IN YOUR OWN WORDS. ASAP.

2) No-lynch is a horrible idea. I AM prepared to say that it's better than a Frozenflame lynch (I'll compare the Frozen wagon to the Swiss wagon in time travelers, it's made me feel a lot better about his playerslot.) However, there is simply no reason to no-lynch over getting rid of a scummy question mark like Boat or Tery. No reason at all.

@Anyone who thinks any lynch is better than a no-lynch
Would you support YOUR lynch over a no-lynch if there was plainly no other option? If not then shut up.

3) We can swing this lynch around. I repeat,

WE CAN SWING THIS BLASTED LYNCH AROUND.

Don't give me the "Too close to deadline, we'll never make it!" garbage, we switched wagons to lynch a scum right before deadline in Time Travelers, and we can do it again.


Anyway, someone explain to me why AB is supposedly clear due to the color role PM thing.

I'm not done quite yet, but this is enough for one post, IMO.

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

Xatres, there's ample time to lynch *anybody* right now. Tery lynch is not worse than a NL, Boat lynch is better than a NL in ANY case and Raziek lynch will take out one scumbag Day 1.

Good post, Nich I agree. Keep it that short and we cool

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

I don't really quite see where the Tery suspicions are coming from at the moment but his lynch is better than nothing. What strikes me as odd is how Frozen and Circus are in agreement here but not anywhere else. It seems like an easy wagon and I'd like to hear more from it before deadline hits.

 

[Gova]

1. Inferno3044 ()
2. JTB ()
3. Overswarm (2) Rajam, Boat
4. Red Ryu ()
5. Circus ()
6. Analytical Buttheads (1) Nich
7. Rajam ()
8. Nicholas1024
9. Xatres ()
10. Terywj (2) Circus, FF
11. Raziek ()
12. Boatchouli (1) RR, Inferno
13. Frozenflame751 (1) OS,
No Lynch (1) Xatres

Not voting - JTB, AB, Tery

With 13 playing, it takes 7 to lynch!

Deadline is September 20th at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

Nich, Xatres, Raziek - vote either Tery or Boat ... the sooner you do it the less likely the NL becomes.

 

[Xatres]

If no one wants to get behind the No Lynch option, then I'll play ball. I'm not going to force a No Lynch on a town that doesn't want it to happen.

Unvote

Right now the popular options are Boat and Tery. If we can get some brief summaries of the cases against them from the people pushing their lynches, that'd be awesome. I'm getting tired of having to reread the entire thread every time someone proposes a new candidate.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Not yet, AB. I really, REALLY dislike the wagon on Frozen. In fact, by this point I'd be astonished if there wasn't at least one (probably multiple) scum on it, and Frozen was town. Analysis to come.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Uh boy. Playing catchup.

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

Nich.

Because I expect better of town FF.


Fair enough I guess, I'll take a boat or tery lynch.

IGMEOU FF

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

Nich, anything other than these 2 is too unrealistic. You will not be able to change people's minds to an extent where you can accomplish something COMPLETELY different. Most of the votes will not change - Rajam, Boat, JTB ... maybe even Tery or OS. We need every vote we can get now, please understand that.

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

If no one wants to get behind the No Lynch option, then I'll play ball. I'm not going to force a No Lynch on a town that doesn't want it to happen.

Unvote

Right now the popular options are Boat and Tery. If we can get some brief summaries of the cases against them from the people pushing their lynches, that'd be awesome. I'm getting tired of having to reread the entire thread every time someone proposes a new candidate.

Boat is worthless and that will not change. LYNCH HIM plz

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

I prefer Boat lynch over Tery lynch.

Raziek, do NOT lurk now.

 

[Raziek]

I have the tab open while playing MH.

I'm game for a Boat lynch. He has done literally nothing.

vote: Boatchouli

 

[Xatres]

Nah, I'm throwing my hat into the ring.

Vote: Overswarm

Here's my (abbreviated) case:

1) OS's crusade against AB: We now know, in hindsight, that OS was wrong about AB. Many people got behind it (myself included, although it wasn't my first choice). I think this was mostly because there was some logic to it and OS did a lot of work making a huge, analytical post. AB has pointed out that OS does this A LOT to get less observant players think his arguments are better than they appear. This is an anti-town action, because using tricks to get people to follow incomplete cases is a great way to pull a mislynch. Keep in mind that if I hadn't slowed things down, AB would have gotten on L-1 and possibly been lynched before he could clear himself. That's how close OS's actions came to costing us a townie.

2) OS hated AB's argument against FF, which many people are now disagreeing with as well. OS disagreed with this while pushing hard for AB's death. As soon as AB was cleared, suddenly OS was asking the ENTIRE TOWN to follow AB's lead in lynching FF, for no other reason than AB being cleared. Obviously everyone disagrees with this, but no one but me has really called OS to the mat for his stance.

3) Rajam's initial case about OS making an early scumslip. Raz and I both argued that while this was a crappy reason to call for a wagon, it could be used as part of a larger argument. Rajam never supplied it, but now we have a larger argument (ironically, from me).

4) Related to Rajam's case. I asked OS to give his opinion on Rajam's ignore-ance, and he refused to give one. I never pushed him. In hindsight, I've been saying (and OS has been saying) that refusal to answer direct questions is scummy. And yet OS has done this not only with my question about Rajam, but also for a long time when it came to AB's case as well. Do you think that if people hadn't been persistent in asking, that OS would have been content to withhold his case entirely?

In short, OS is playing a game that thrives on him having information to himself, rather than sharing it with town. It's consistently taken more than one request to get him to explain his views or logic behind anything. When he does finally give information, it is overwrought and intended to get more support than the facts can on their own.

Mafia is a game of an informed minority vs. an uniformed majority. By his actions, OS is making himself part of an informed minority. He is hurting town by withholding information and by asking town to vote blindly (either following him or AB).

OS isn't helping town with his actions. He is helping scum.

In words of Batman: "Who benefits?"

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well Circus, while I agree that no lynching D1 is bad, it's only a case of being bad if there are clear picks and we don't take them.

That doesn't seem to be the case here, we are scrambling, that makes it a lot worse for town to lynch on over us having the info to pick the correct lynch choices.

 

[Inferno3044]

Boat is worthless and that will not change. LYNCH HIM plz

I've been trying to say this for a while now.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

1. Inferno3044 ()
2. JTB ()
3. Overswarm (2) Rajam, Boat
4. Red Ryu ()
5. Circus ()
6. Analytical Buttheads (1) Nich
7. Rajam ()
8. Nicholas1024
9. Xatres ()
10. Terywj (2) Circus, FF
11. Raziek ()
12. Boatchouli (1) RR, Inferno
13. Frozenflame751 (1) OS,
No Lynch (1) Xatres

Not voting - JTB, AB, Tery

With 13 playing, it takes 7 to lynch!

Deadline is September 20th at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).

Everyone stop, we need a clear lynch. If you want a lynch, vote Tery or Boat, no one else. That is final.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I support the boat lynch fyi, and I recommend that direction just for the sole fact I think we can get something out of Tery and this is not the case for Boat.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Not counting AB who couldn't vote, there were 5 people on Frozen's wagon before he even had a chance to respond.

Those 5 people are OS, Red Ryu, Circus, Inferno, and Raziek.

OS is OS, I had a town read on him beforehand (even if his actions in this regard have shaken it), and it'd take a minor miracle to get him lynched today even if I was super-confident in him being scum.

Red Ryu, Inferno, and Raziek are all closer to the new/bad player end of the scale, and therefore are likelier to sheep when the wagon is led by OS and AB. (Not that I don't plan to confront them over their actions, but they're not my target just now.)

Who's that leave? Circus. Who is one of the players in this game you would NOT expect to sheep. Let's take a close look at his actions, starting with OS's case (when he actually posted it) on AB.

Well, holy ****. OS, I'd be lying if I said I actually expected you to indulge me with a laid out case. The effort is pretty impressive. I still think you're reaching in places though—particularly with your graphs (what exactly are they meant to show? Just general discrepancies between actions?), your analysis of Gheb/Adum's scum picks (you said yourself that Adum has been playing most of the game. It makes sense that we would be aware of his picks and that Gheb's would be more of a surprise when they were presented) and the post that you call "the one that damned him" (I was close to making a similar post toward you myself). And Gheb's aggression? Not a scum tell for him.

I admire the work that went into presenting all this, and I see the clues you're pointing to regarding deflection and the way AB has remained very present throughout the Day but has done little in the way of any actual action, but the confidence just doesn't match the evidence for me. You seem so certain he's scum and I'm just not there with you. I see how he's a decent play. I just don't see how he's THE play.

AB, you should probably claim as soon as possible. Deadline's a day away, and you're wagon's the one that's rolling downhill now.

If AB does flip scum, I'm looking at you hard.

He seems to be favoring the AB wagon, but he hasn't actually joined it. I won't bore you with the quotes (Because seriously, it took FOREVER to get the case across in Time Travelers and I don't have that kind of time before deadline), but Circus had displayed an odd lack of push through the whole game before this point. Seriously, can anyone name a notable push he made? Or even a vote he made before Frozen (without looking back through the thread?)

Exactly what I was just thinking. Even before this stupid color thing popped up, Adum was doing a good job of making me think we should switch to someone else. Frankly, the point on Frozen is totally legit, in my opinion.

Wait a sec, now he was saying AB had (or nearly had) his mind more or less changed before the color stuff? Circus, what changed your mind on AB?

My vote isn't even on you. Do you want it on Frozen or what?

Would be fine with Rajam too, to be honest.

Unvote

Vote: Frozenflame

Also, Tery's jump to rule breaking after being silent and useless for the past several days is duly ****ing noted. Seriously, best vig choice. No other option.

THIS is where my main problem with Circus lies. Seriously,

Why did you think Frozen was scum?

I'm not buying the no-lynch explanation, because here's the vote count right after AB received his mod punishment.

1. Inferno3044 ()
2. JTB ()
3. Overswarm (2) Rajam, Boat
4. Red Ryu ()
5. Circus ()
6. Analytical Buttheads (3) Nich, Raziek, FF
7. Rajam (1) Xatres
8. Nicholas1024
9. Xatres ()
10. Terywj ()
11. Raziek ()
12. Boatchouli (1) Inferno
13. Frozenflame751 (3) OS, RR, Circus

Circus was just the third vote. (Fourth if you count AB, but since everyone thought he'd be modkilled... yeah.) There was next to no suspicion on Frozen aside from the recent THREE votes. There had already been a nice big Tery wagon, who Circus has obviously and repeatedly stated as the best vig/lynch choice and very scummy.

I just got online, and there's a mountain of quote warring going on this thread that I have to weed through. Feels like there are a million and a half things that I want to respond directly to, and then a heap of new garbage gets hoisted on top of it.

Your [Frozen's] comments on a No Lynch being better in this situation are horse**** and smack of desperate scum to me.

He picks one thing to reply to... and seizes on Frozen saying how a no-lynch would be better than his lynch, and contending that it's scummy. This shows an intent towards pushing the Frozen lynch through.

Unvote if it'll get your panties untwisted for a minute.

This will be going back on before deadline if we don't find a better lynch. Because, to be honest, you're right, I would prefer a Tery or Inferno lynch at this point. If you want to help me make that happen, then go ahead, but no one else seems to be as bothered by their bull**** as I am.

And we're not No Lynching.

Circus, where have you made a notable push towards getting Tery or Inferno lynched?

There is no point to unvoting here if you're not pushing a wagon. You say yourself (I'll bold it in a couple quotes) that your vote on Frozen

AB, here's what I was going to post before Soup froze the game when you asked for scum picks.

Without seeing Frozen's flip, Tery and Inferno are my biggest active scum reads. Tery's newbie in general, and I was pretty okay with just letting him get vigged on that alone, but he smells specifically newbscum to me at this point. His posts have been pretty sparse, and when they do come they're about nothing or they have anti-town uses. Almost all of the posts he has made this game so far have been complaining about the fact that he has to read the thread or fluff posts dressed up as useful "commentary." Coming out of the shadows after four days of complete silence to point at AB and cry "rule breaker!" once he claimed is terribad. Town has no incentive to do something like that; scum does.

Inferno's been playing every side of every argument this whole game. He's been following the herd on every single issue brought up throughout the Day, especially when OS has been leading it (which has been most of the time), only to turn when the tide meets any amount of resistence ("Hey, you're right, why does OS want to know that? No I'm suspicious too!"). I don't think I've seen him give an honest, free-thinking opinion on anything all game. He asks other people what his opinion should be. And when he does seem like he's about to start pressuring someone of his own volition, he backs off immediately as long as he gets some kind of response from them. He's working hard not to be on anyone's bad side.

I have a few second tier picks and people who mostly make sense based on other players' flips, but I won't list them as that would effectively out my town reads.

Finally, something non-Frozen related. The points here are actually good, what bothers me is that Circus hasn't picked one to actively push for the lynch, he seems to just take the Frozen lynch for granted. If he really wanted a Tery lynch, he could have taken a major step in that direction by pushing it instead of Frozen's wagon, but he didn't. Why? (Scum explanation: Frozen's not getting lynched any time soon if it doesn't happen today, and Tery is almost guaranteed to be lynched at some point down the line. Pushing the Frozen wagon is a free mislynch for scum, and they can point the finger at OS for starting it.)

The point that you yourself hopped onto AB's wagon opportunistically.

And yes, I absolutely was/am piggybacking. Get over it. I made that post when we had less than 12 hours before deadline. I was and still am basically in "prevent no lynch" mode. You had 3 votes on you when I voted you, one being cleared AB and one being OS, the game's most vocal and forceful player all Day. Like it or not, your lynch was the one that was happening, and still probably is.

THIS. IS. SPARTA SCUMMY. Here's the points against it.

1) You claim you were in prevent no lynch mode. Fine, but you were only the third vote (fourth if you count AB). It was completely possible to push Tery over Frozen, considering

a) The case against Frozen is more or less "Frozen's vote on AB was bad due to meta stuff", which doesn't hold a candle to the case against Tery or Boat.

b) There had been more or less NO Frozen suspicion before that, but plenty of Tery suspicion.

c) AB wasn't even close to influential so far this game, for crying out loud he almost got lynched. Just because it's normally a good playerslot doesn't mean much compared to how they've played this game.

2) If you were (and still are) in prevent no lynch mode....

Why on earth aren't you voting here?!? Seriously, unvoting and leaving your vote unused does nothing but RAISE the possibility of no lynch.

3)You claim "Frozen's vote on AB was opportunistic". If anyone calls ANY vote on the Frozen wagon (aside from the first two) anything but opportunistic, they're borderline insane.

@Frozen, Xastres
Look, right now I trust you two (Frozen because of the bad wagon on him, Xastres because newbscum trying to lynch OVERSWARM in this game D1 is utterly ridiculous), give me a hand in giving this wagon liftoff. (Yeah, this is more or less an invite to a townie voting block until further notice.)

Unvote, Vote: Circus

@No-lynch stuff
If I can't push this wagon through (or Circus gives a really, REALLY good explanation for all this), I will switch to Boat or Tery (in that order) to prevent NL, but I'll push this wagon until I'm satisfied Circus isn't the play for today.

 

[Nicholas1024]

By the way, if you guys are succumbing to TLDR (which REALLY shouldn't happen considering the circumstances), the most important part of the case is the bolded quote and the stuff under it.

 

[Inferno3044]

@Nich - My vote was based on him not doing much until 12 hours before the lynch and his very opportunistic vote on AB. The people on the wagon don't look too scummy either. Especially with a confirmed town on it.

The vote has come down to Boat and Tery. There are 10 people in here atm. All of you should vote.

 

[Raziek]

I really don't agree with Red Ryu and Inferno saying "Boat or Tery".

Yeah, Boat is fine, but why exactly is Tery a guaranteed lynch choice over someone like Circus or OS? If anything I'd say stronger cases have been made against those two players than against Tery.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Inferno
So, should we just randomly follow the #1 scum pick of every dead townie? After all, they're confirmed town as well.

Confirmed town =/= Confirmed Right

@Frozenflame/Xastres
Do you think AB is clear because of the whole color thing? I'm not so sure. For crying out loud, it might have been the color of his safe claim. (I once got modkilled for "quoting" a fake role PM I made up on the spot. Circus was the mod in that game, actually...)

 

[Nicholas1024]

Raziek, join the Circus wagon and tell me why you were on Frozenflame ASAP.

 

[Xatres]

If he's scum and Soupa let him live, then Soupa needs to be lynched (for reals).

 

[Raziek]

I was on the Frozenflame wagon because I believed the color thing sufficiently cleared AB, and I didn't want to see a NL. Yeah, there's the possibility it was a given safeclaim, but we're not even really supposed to discuss it anymore.

I'll admit I'm kinda just hopping my vote around here, but we need to get SOMETHING together.

Nich, given that Boat has yet to post anything of substance, and it's entirely possible that we may not get a claim out of either player, do you still feel better lynching Circus than Boat?

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Soup

Would the same punishment apply to posting mod info regarding a safe claim or faked role PM as to a real one?

@Raziek
Boat I feel much better about as a vigilante choice due to connections. We push a lynch on Boat, there's more or less no connections from the wagon, simply because there's no big argument in favor of him being townie. We push a lynch on Circus, there's PLENTY of connections from the wagon (Me/Frozen for starters). I wouldn't complain if Boat was the play today, but he's a reserve lynch, not an ideal one.

 

[Inferno3044]

I really don't agree with Red Ryu and Inferno saying "Boat or Tery".

Yeah, Boat is fine, but why exactly is Tery a guaranteed lynch choice over someone like Circus or OS? If anything I'd say stronger cases have been made against those two players than against Tery.

Tery seems popular for some reason. I personally don't think that he is a good lynch choice but other people do.

@Inferno
So, should we just randomly follow the #1 scum pick of every dead townie? After all, they're confirmed town as well.

Confirmed town =/= Confirmed Right

Frozen said this as well and I have taken this into consideration.

 

[Raziek]

The vote has come down to Boat and Tery. There are 10 people in here atm. All of you should vote.

Tery seems popular for some reason. I personally don't think that he is a good lynch choice but other people do.

????

Alright Nich, I'll buy that.

unvote; vote: Circus

 

[Inferno3044]

????

Alright Nich, I'll buy that.

unvote; vote: Circus

What I meant was the two most popular lynch choices atm are Boat and Tery (and Circus is popping up). I am personally for the Boat lynch, but not the Tery lynch. Hope this is more clear.

@mod- Request vote count

 

[Nicholas1024]

Inferno, opinion on Circus, NOW.

 

[Gova]

1. Inferno3044 ()
2. JTB ()
3. Overswarm (3) Rajam, Boat, Xatres
4. Red Ryu ()
5. Circus (2) Nich, Raziek
6. Analytical Buttheads ()
7. Rajam ()
8. Nicholas1024
9. Xatres ()
10. Terywj (2) Circus, FF
11. Raziek ()
12. Boatchouli (1) RR, Inferno
13. Frozenflame751 (1) OS,


Not voting - JTB, AB, Tery

With 13 playing, it takes 7 to lynch!

Deadline is September 20th at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).