Megaman X: Day of Death. ~ EVERYBODY DIED. SCUM WINS. GAME OVER.

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Annoyed I had to do this as well. :/

 

[Gova]

1. Inferno3044 (1) Circus
2. JTB ()
3. Overswarm (2) Rajam, Boat
4. Red Ryu ()
5. Circus ()
6. Analytical Buttheads ()
7. Rajam (1) Raziek
8. Nicholas1024
9. Xatres ()
10. Terywj (3) FF, Nich, OS
11. Raziek ()
12. Boatchouli (2) AB, Inferno
13. Frozenflame751 (1) RR

Not voting - JTB, Tery, Xatres

With 13 playing, it takes 7 to lynch!

Deadline is September 20th at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).

Red Ruy decides to not replace out.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I jumped the gun.

I took a joke someone had about this set-up and thought it was spoiling me on it.

Had a talk with the Co-mod I don't need to replace out.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I think Xatres v Rajam is either T (Xatres) v S (Rajam), or TvT. Don't think it's SvS.

'Kay. Why for each case? Are you leaning toward either one (TvT or TvS)?

Will do. Lata though probs.

I don't really know what this means. Are you saying that I shouldn't be giving OS a town-read when he appears to be pro-town because he's good at the game and knows how to look town?

I can understand the need for caution, but that's a pretty WIFOM argument.

I'm really not a fan of targeting good players just because they're good. I'd rather target someone against whom I can make a legitimate case. If I thought OS was using his skill to make a convincing (but ill-founded) case against someone, I'd say so. So far, I haven't seen any of that, so I'm reading him as town for now.

Yep, that's exactly what I ****ing mean.

You're clearing him off of absolute **** criteria. That's the kind of stupid **** that lets good players pull the wool over your eyes and tell you "everything is gonna be ok, just follow me" for day after day until SURPRISE you've ****ing lost already.

I'm not saying you should always view OS through a presumptuous scum lens. What I AM saying is you should be holding him to a higher standard of clearing himself than most players, and for good ****ing reason.

If you really think he's such a good mafia player then make him ****ing prove it. Don't give him a free pass just because "oh he hasn't been blatantly anti-town yet". That's just dumb, and you're putting yourself in the position to doubt yourself about thinking he is scummy later because you are already trusting him early on, when you may need to seriously reconsider your read on him. You're just cornering yourself by convincing yourself you have a good town read on him for no good reason.

I'm not advocating the attack of "stronger" players right off the bat or over centralizing focus on "key" players as a principle. All I'm saying is don't jump the gun. W/e though, I can't really control how people develop their reads. =/

@ OS: thanks for dooming my question to people voting tery to oblivion by asking a broader version of it. U so commanding y? =P

 

[Circus]

FoS: Raziek

You say you'd lynch me as one of your options right now, when you're not even sure of your read on me. Just gonna quote the following for reference.

Nice FoS you've got there. You were dangerously close to OMGUS-ing him for no reason, which would have looked pretty bad for your already tarnishing image. Luckily, you subverted it with a finger of suspicion, which totally does not make you look like scum unwilling to throw the full weight of their vote around. Nice job.

I stand corrected, but it doesn't change that I think his argument is terrible. You are a good player. You're not going to scum slip D1 let alone on page 1.

What is with everyone burying their noses in Overswarm's undies this game?

Rajam's point against OS is bad, but not for this reason. Is Rajam your new most desired lynch or are you still on Boat?

Calm your ****, I'm here. Had this game on the backburner while I was catching up on Nabes game after replacing in.

reading and such

So was your "reading and such" going to lead to some contribution or are you just not going to join this game until more people start looking at you?

I'll address other issues later. I need to see first how's my scum team (Xatres/OS/Ryker) doing :B

And you're going to do that by what? Sitting around and watching (one or two of) them post? For someone who thinks he's got the scumteam locked up, you don't seem interested in pressuring any of them.

 

[JTB]

Frozenflame, why are you fine with RR dying despite him being a null read? You also have your vote on Tery, but I have yet to see you actually question him at all. In fact, the most amount of content you have provided since hopping on his wagon is why Xatres shouldn't give OS a town read so easily. If we were to lynch Tery, what information would you get off a flip for both alignments?

I wanted to say that my vote on Frozen wasn't serious and that I don't think he is scum atm.

Unvote Vote Boatchouli

Odd vote on Boat. Prior to this, all I gathered from your posts is that you wanted Ryker to start contributing. You had plenty of time to vote and push him, but you waited until Tery voted him instead. Further posts from you show a distaste for people not contributing. So I ask you, what was the reasoning behind your vote? And why did it come at that time?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Last time I checked I never said I had a null read on RR. I just said the fact that he was OMGUSing me was null. Doesn't mean my whole read on him is null.

Why do I have to question someone to be voting them?

Maybe if you actually read my #328 in its entirety and weren't a ****ing skimming scumbag you'd know I've provided more content than just harping on Xatres.

It's funny that you think I'll tell you my alignment predictions for people based on what Tery is. Seriously the fact you really believed that when you typed it is hilarious to me.

But yeah, I'll talk about stuff like that later in the day, when ya know, people can't change their approach in order to better distance or buddy Tery for those who know what he will flip aka the scum.

 

[JTB]

Right, so you can ride Tery's wagon without actually doing anything, despite him being your first pick to die? What about his 346, is there anything in there that seems questionable?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Adum said he'd be a but busy with school stuff so I'll read up on stuff an comment now [on my hydra account ofc just posting this as a placeholder to remind myself].

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

Unvote

My current reads are scum on Raziek and Xatres. The amount of fuzz they created about Rajam's case being "bad" is remarkable considering there was a lot of truth behind his points. Just because the "slip" part was an exaggeration or a misinterpretation [or both] doesn't mean that the very core of his argument doesn't hold any merit. In fact I'd even go as far as to say that Overswarm created this whole scenario on purpose to lure out reactions from different sides. That doesn't make OS any more or less townie but it certainly goes to show who is being genuine with his reads [Rajam] and who's more interested in their own benefit [Xatres and Raziek].

Out of the "veteran" players here it's Circus that troubles me the most. Even when he doesn't post a lot I can tell fairly quick when he's scum or not simply due to how much we played and interacted with each other in all our dGames career and I can't remember the last time I was wrong about him. I'm not fond of his explanation on why he voted Tery and I also don't like his last post.

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

AB and RR, do you agree that noob-scum will probably be quite inactive, given the roster of this game?

It's a fruitless line of thought in my opinion that I'm not going to entertain.

 

[Overswarm]

@ OS: thanks for dooming my question to people voting tery to oblivion by asking a broader version of it. U so commanding y? =P

Because it gets things done.

People seem to not be posting the two people they would lynch right at this moment if they had to. Get on the ball guys, play along.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Tery, I only listed you because I'm not really sold on anyone else right now, and I think Boat's more likely to be valuable to Town than you are, were I to keep him around.

No offense, and don't be butthurt just because I listed you as a possible lynch.

Can aI have a reason for Boat over Tery by chance?

Last time I checked I never said I had a null read on RR. I just said the fact that he was OMGUSing me was null. Doesn't mean my whole read on him is null.

Why do I have to question someone to be voting them?

Maybe if you actually read my #328 in its entirety and weren't a ****ing skimming scumbag you'd know I've provided more content than just harping on Xatres.

It's funny that you think I'll tell you my alignment predictions for people based on what Tery is. Seriously the fact you really believed that when you typed it is hilarious to me.

But yeah, I'll talk about stuff like that later in the day, when ya know, people can't change their approach in order to better distance or buddy Tery for those who know what he will flip aka the scum.

Point out the OMGUS please and thank you.

 

[Raziek]

'Kay. Why for each case? Are you leaning toward either one (TvT or TvS)?

Since I'm currently still fairly confident in my read on Rajam, I think TvS is the more likely. Like I already said, I think Rajam was trying to buy Xatres into is case through partial intimidation tactics.

Otherwise, it's TvT largely by PoE, since I don't think it's SvS.

Unvote

My current reads are scum on Raziek and Xatres. The amount of fuzz they created about Rajam's case being "bad" is remarkable considering there was a lot of truth behind his points. Just because the "slip" part was an exaggeration or a misinterpretation [or both] doesn't mean that the very core of his argument doesn't hold any merit. In fact I'd even go as far as to say that Overswarm created this whole scenario on purpose to lure out reactions from different sides. That doesn't make OS any more or less townie but it certainly goes to show who is being genuine with his reads [Rajam] and who's more interested in their own benefit [Xatres and Raziek].

How exactly am I interested in my own benefit, for pursuing a scum read?

 

[Inferno3044]

@circus- OS said to give no order or reasoning so im going to respect his orders. If its ok with him I'll answer.

@rajam- can you explain your case on OS? Or link the post if there's a good one?

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

Vote Raziek

Don't play the derp-card here. Since I have no reason to believe your scum read - and I stated why that is - repeating that "you're pursuing a scum read" is meaningless and doesn't refute my point in the slightest. It's just a redundant assertion to stall the argument as you just repeat the same old. Yet you fail to point out which of Rajam's concerns with Overswarm's post are questionable and how they lead to the conclusion that Rajam is scummy. The possible benefits for you are that you either hope to gain Overswarm's trust [in case he's town] or that you nudge the sentiment that he's obvtown [in case he's scum] - both trades are in your favor if you're mafia.

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

Also, everybody is free to ignore Overswarm's request to point out their two top scumreads in the manner he proposed. Of course it's good enough to only point out one read if it's a thorough one and of course you can give explanation that goes beyond what he asks - you're not his puppets and if you don't trust him or think that it's better not to do as he asks it's perfectly fine to not follow suit.

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

Also, everybody is free to ignore Overswarm's request to point out their two top scumreads in the manner he proposed. Of course it's good enough to only point out one read if it's a thorough one and of course you can give explanation that goes beyond what he asks - you're not his puppets and if you don't trust him or think that it's better not to do as he asks it's perfectly fine to not follow suit.

~ "Don't follow leaders, watch the parking meters."

 

[Overswarm]

Also, everybody is free to ignore Overswarm's request to point out their two top scumreads in the manner he proposed. Of course it's good enough to only point out one read if it's a thorough one and of course you can give explanation that goes beyond what he asks - you're not his puppets and if you don't trust him or think that it's better not to do as he asks it's perfectly fine to not follow suit.

Vote Analytical Buttheads

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

Vote Analytical Buttheads

Point remains, though.

 

[Overswarm]

You're the play for today, AB.

 

[Raziek]

Vote Raziek

Don't play the derp-card here. Since I have no reason to believe your scum read - and I stated why that is - repeating that "you're pursuing a scum read" is meaningless and doesn't refute my point in the slightest. It's just a redundant assertion to stall the argument as you just repeat the same old. Yet you fail to point out which of Rajam's concerns with Overswarm's post are questionable and how they lead to the conclusion that Rajam is scummy. The possible benefits for you are that you either hope to gain Overswarm's trust [in case he's town] or that you nudge the sentiment that he's obvtown [in case he's scum] - both trades are in your favor if you're mafia.

How is this playing the derp card?

The two scenarios you outlined are effects that could occur on the Overswarm end of things.

You didn't even ADDRESS the Rajam end of things.

I have pointed out multiple times that I believe Rajam's case is constructed largely on WIFOM, and he's been trying to bully Xatres into joining his case by means of subtle FoS and implicating him in an OS/Xatres/Boat scumteam.

 

[Xatres]

Yep, that's exactly what I ****ing mean.

You're clearing him off of absolute **** criteria. That's the kind of stupid **** that lets good players pull the wool over your eyes and tell you "everything is gonna be ok, just follow me" for day after day until SURPRISE you've ****ing lost already.

I'm not saying you should always view OS through a presumptuous scum lens. What I AM saying is you should be holding him to a higher standard of clearing himself than most players, and for good ****ing reason.

If you really think he's such a good mafia player then make him ****ing prove it. Don't give him a free pass just because "oh he hasn't been blatantly anti-town yet". That's just dumb, and you're putting yourself in the position to doubt yourself about thinking he is scummy later because you are already trusting him early on, when you may need to seriously reconsider your read on him. You're just cornering yourself by convincing yourself you have a good town read on him for no good reason.

I'm not advocating the attack of "stronger" players right off the bat or over centralizing focus on "key" players as a principle. All I'm saying is don't jump the gun. W/e though, I can't really control how people develop their reads. =/

You are are assuming that I am an idiot who cannot correctly find and interpret evidence. This is simply not true. In Oddworld Mafia, Cello basically lead the whole game as town, and was a strong, aggressive player throughout. That didn't stoop my hydra from strongly opposing him on a bad call to kill J two days in a row. It turned out J was our cop. This stance garnered Dastrn and I the MvP.

I'm not a sheep who just follows strong players around. I know how to think for myself.

Vote Raziek

Don't play the derp-card here. Since I have no reason to believe your scum read - and I stated why that is - repeating that "you're pursuing a scum read" is meaningless and doesn't refute my point in the slightest. It's just a redundant assertion to stall the argument as you just repeat the same old. Yet you fail to point out which of Rajam's concerns with Overswarm's post are questionable and how they lead to the conclusion that Rajam is scummy. The possible benefits for you are that you either hope to gain Overswarm's trust [in case he's town] or that you nudge the sentiment that he's obvtown [in case he's scum] - both trades are in your favor if you're mafia.

You are ignoring the fact that the only reason Raz has had to repeat himself so much is that Rajam has been refusing to answer any questions about this. He made a crappy argument, tried to drag what he perceived as a newbish player into it, and is now ignoring all criticism and refusing to support his position.

This includes...
1. His original argument on OS
2. Any other evidence for OS being scum
3. His reasons for making OS/you/me his scumteam

Vote: Rajam

When I've encountered this kind of behavior in the past, it's almost always been done by a scum/indy player.

@Rajam: Please explain your scum picks in detail.

@OS: Why do you think AB is the play for today?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

@Tery
I'd expect you to at least acknowledge the argument, or argue your side of things. To just not respond like you're hoping it drops entirely is pretty odd, to say the least.

If someone makes a valid statement, no one in their right mind could possibly think everyone else will forget about it. I was completely void of those intentions in my shenanigans with Ryker, but if you're gonna point those out I can't defend myself from something I don't think I did.

Tery, I only listed you because I'm not really sold on anyone else right now, and I think Boat's more likely to be valuable to Town than you are, were I to keep him around.

No offense, and don't be butthurt just because I listed you as a possible lynch.

You seem to be confusing the terms "butthurt" with "suspicious"? I can't possibly see how those two are related. There's the "FoS" that you may or may not have skipped.

Nice FoS you've got there. You were dangerously close to OMGUS-ing him for no reason, which would have looked pretty bad for your already tarnishing image. Luckily, you subverted it with a finger of suspicion, which totally does not make you look like scum unwilling to throw the full weight of their vote around. Nice job.

I can't even tell if this is half serious or sarcastic, but I don't think I like it either way.

Vote Analytical Buttheads

You're the play for today, AB.

How come? Just because of his unwillingness to coorporate?

Where's Boat at?

Also, possible warning of V/LA at literally random time intervals. My campus internet went down at 8:30 and by 12:00 it still wasn't up. I just woke up 30 minutes ago and it was fine, but as you can see this is fairly unpredictable.

 

[Overswarm]

@OS: Why do you think AB is the play for today?

How come? Just because of his unwillingness to coorporate?

He didn't follow along. He's my vote for the rest of the game until he's dead or until he cooperates. I could make a case on him being obstinate all game and doing his best to be a drag, his desire to keep RVS going and then disappearing completely after it ended save for popping up to say "let's not give out information", but I don't think I will.

Just vote him AB, end the day.

Everyone else, post your two lynch choices if you haven't already.

 

[Raziek]

Again, Rajam, I want ALL of these answered.

For Rajam:

Why are you so fixated on Overswarm's interactions with AB during RVS?

Do you believe the WIFOM your case seems to be based on actually makes OS scum?

Does this outweigh his otherwise Townie (in my opinion) play?

Additionally, why the focus on Xatres? You seem to be trying to passively bully him into joining your wagon on OS.

For reference, my 268.

 

[Xatres]

On a similar note, I'll be working over the course of the next three days (Fri-Sun), so my posting will be spotty at best. I'll try to keep up, but expect my activity to spike again on Monday.

 

[Inferno3044]

He didn't follow along. He's my vote for the rest of the game until he's dead or until he cooperates. I could make a case on him being obstinate all game and doing his best to be a drag, his desire to keep RVS going and then disappearing completely after it ended save for popping up to say "let's not give out information", but I don't think I will.

Just vote him AB, end the day.

Everyone else, post your two lynch choices if you haven't already.

Don't jump the gun so soon. Tell us why you want us to give our top 2 lynch votes.

@AB - What idea do you offer instead?

 

[Overswarm]

For someone who was doing things just because I told them to a few posts ago, you seem to be changing your mind a lot.

I said it before we started, the person who doesn't go along is the play for today. That's AB.

 

[Inferno3044]

I understand your vote and I am willing to cooperate. I thought you posted a reason as to why you wanted them but when I reread your post I didn't see one. Also I think stating a reason will have AB cooperate with you.

 

[Inferno3044]

EBWOP: @AB at least hold to your word and give us a scum pick.

@OS - I reread your post one more time. Is the reason to see who the possible lynch candidates are for today?

@Tery - I find your FoS very suspicious. The only reason I see for it is because Raziek would want to lynch you. That's a terrible reason

@Boat - Where are you?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

@Tery - I find your FoS very suspicious. The only reason I see for it is because Raziek would want to lynch you. That's a terrible reason

I would not have FoS'd without reason. The fact that he was null on me earlier--split between the two arguments--is something I can't just ignore. The same goes for anything hypocritical. Ugh.

 

[JTB]

Inferno, look at my 366 and answer it.

 

[Inferno3044]

I would not have FoS'd without reason. The fact that he was null on me earlier--split between the two arguments--is something I can't just ignore. The same goes for anything hypocritical. Ugh.

FoS: Raziek

You say you'd lynch me as one of your options right now, when you're not even sure of your read on me. Just gonna quote the following for reference.

This sounds like an OMGUS without the power of a vote behind it. Also he never said you were null. If he thought of boarding your wagon, that means he had some suspicion about you.

 

[JTB]

Also, everybody is free to ignore Overswarm's request to point out their two top scumreads in the manner he proposed. Of course it's good enough to only point out one read if it's a thorough one and of course you can give explanation that goes beyond what he asks - you're not his puppets and if you don't trust him or think that it's better not to do as he asks it's perfectly fine to not follow suit.

Entertain me with some reasoning as to why it's a bad idea to answer Overswarms question other than a trust issue.

 

[JTB]

EBWOP: not so much bad idea, but why its pointless to answer it

 

[Inferno3044]

Odd vote on Boat. Prior to this, all I gathered from your posts is that you wanted Ryker to start contributing. You had plenty of time to vote and push him, but you waited until Tery voted him instead. Further posts from you show a distaste for people not contributing. So I ask you, what was the reasoning behind your vote? And why did it come at that time?

Didn't see this. The reasoning behind the vote is because I was asked why my vote was on Frozen. I said that my vote on him was RVS and decided to move to a serious vote at that time. I tried asking him about AB and OS's early argument and he posted another eye-rolling pic and continued to post them. He has contributed nothing to the town and is at least anti-town at this point. Everyone else has posted something worth contributing.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

AB what is the harm of sharing scum picks?

Can someone give me a sensable case on Tery? Because his wagon looks stupid.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

This sounds like an OMGUS without the power of a vote behind it. Also he never said you were null. If he thought of boarding your wagon, that means he had some suspicion about you.

I don't see how the following is essentially a null? Or am I misinterpreting?

See, I don't know if I'm entirely on board the Tery wagon, because I agree with half of your case, but disagree with the other half.

 

[Overswarm]

@OS - I reread your post one more time. Is the reason to see who the possible lynch candidates are for today?

Yes .