OS, deadline's in about two days. If you want AB's lynch to go through, you're going to have to give more than this. I read over AB's posts, and his interactions with you in general, and I'm only catching a whiff of what you're apparently smelling. I see you taking AB's actions and attributing stronger negative connotations to them than they deserve. If you feel really strongly about this, then make a case. Why is AB the best lynch choice today? Please don't just give me this "if you trust me then trust me" crap again, because I just do not have any reason to believe that your read is sound even if you're town. And Inferno's 419 alone makes me want to glue my vote to him. And there are several people I would prefer to switch to before AB if I have to in order to make a lynch happen.
I'd really rather not, but here's the short and sweet version:
AB believes that playing a good scum relies on hiding and misdirecting; this is the opposite of my usual approach, which is generally controlling and manipulative. AB would rather patiently wait until someone else shows weakness then pounce on them, while I would rather pick a lynch target and go for it. AB would rather judo anything on him onto his accuser or someone that he believes shares similar traits, while I'm more likely to convince someone to do my bidding for me and avoid that process all together. AB's playstyle allows him to live an indefinite amount of time while my playstyle basically guarantees I'm killed in the D3/N3 phase, but I'm able to do more damage in that time than Adumb can do for most of the game... except at the very end game, which is what Adumb plays for.
With me so far?
Here's Majora's Mask mafia, where Adumb was scum, btw:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=287342&page=4
You can read that too.
Here's the long version, starting and ending with his most recent quote:
Isn't it just cute how OS tries to bully everybody into voting our playerslot on the account that we are detrimental when it's he, who does nothing else but to tunnel us based on a pathetic excuse of a reason and offers nothing else ... two days before the deadline?
But for real - who is the true detriment here? Is it our playerslot who has offered more than enough information, directions and reasons to find a good lynch or is it Overswarm who still hasn't learned the difference between "applying skill" and "applying force"? Or is it the inactives and semi-actives that stall discussion? I'm pretty sure there's nothing detrimental about us compared to almost EVERYBODY else.
Nich, what have you accomplished by voting this playerslot other than making yourself look like one of Overswarm's tools? No, you haven't pressured us into anything, you have learned nothing that you didn't know before or that we wouldn't have given you over time anyway. No, you have no idea that there could be something more to his ******** tunneling because there obviously isn't more. Quit being dumb and start playing with *your* head, thanks.
All of the scum picks adum and I have discussed together make good lynches toDay: Frozen and Ryker from adums side [Gheb agrees that both make solid lynches], Raziek and Xatres from Gheb's side [adum disagrees with neither of these lynches]. We're set to finish this Day phase in a reasonable manner - you all better get to it as well.
Notice how they nonchalantly give two lynch choices each? Why didn't they do that sooner?
Anyway, we'll get to this later. You should just read it and remember it.
Post #39:
Horatio picture said:
Standard RVS, picks me. Nothing can be gleamed from it on its own, but it did give me an easy way to get out of RVS.
I then tease him for a bit and try to get some information out of him.
Solid information so far:
AB said:
Also, that's how you get an idea of people's alignment, so I'm happy with gleaning a town read out of you.
At this point, I find him null but it's easier to just tell him I have a town read on him as well, as that makes him more likely to answer my questions.
OS said:
What do you think about those that piggy-back on other people's "reveling", rather than responding to such against them or making their own path, and remain mostly silent otherwise?
AB said:
Would prefer not to say yet, still too much to glean and not particularly interested in making people I'm on to aware of the fact if I am on to them.
The first deflection, and the first clue that AB has a possibility of being scum.
OS said:
vote: analytical Buttheads
I know how both your slots play. Answer questions asked to you. You and I both know you've given off more than enough information about the one person we're both discussing (could be more, but they are a stretch and wouldn't account for you "holding back"), and it's not enough to even make a solid read. Their future actions are irrelevant to any possible conclusions that you can reach when adjoined with that tiny piece of data; the only thing they can do is compound upon themselves which changes nothing when it comes to appropriate responses. You don't have to use names if you want, but I don't think even Ryker is foolish enough to believe that how he feels the game should be played is how other people in this game will play merely because that's what he likes to see. Regardless, that'd actually be MORE of a tell than what we're looking for.
So cut the crap. What's your answer?
This has all been Adumbrodeus so far (as has most of this game), and AB likes to make excuses. These do not help town. This evasiveness of concrete information continues for some time.
Nich said:
@AB
Do you really think your influence on this game is so great that scum will adjust their behavior only based on what you think? Additionally, you could use a gambit (pushing a non-tell or weak tell for instance) to get reactions. I just don't see why you're sitting back and going "I've got my eye on people, not going to push anything just yet."
AB said:
... duh
Scum adjusts their behavior to manipulate even weak players. Try to avoid something that I explicitly note as a tell. Hell yea.
Of course at this point, the best I can hope is scum adjusting their behavior based on what they perceive my views are, which is still something.
OS said:
You don't know me at all, nor have you ever. I humor you because it makes you easier to read; vaguely hinting at any sort of plan or "obvious knowledge" makes you feel you need to be on even ground with me, and it's easy to slip up when you've got such an irrational response to such vague and pointless stimuli.
More than one person you have an eye on, though? That I understand. But not for the reasons I posted earlier. There's only one person who fits into that category, really... and it's a very weak thing to notice to boot. Important enough to make you lean and squint your eyes and watch further down the line, but also unimportant enough to where you can forget it completely the moment something changes. I don't believe you "have your eye on" anyone, at least not in particular, and I believe even less you know the person who I'm referring to.
And again, no good scum player would adapt to so straightforward a post. That itself is a stronger tell than doing the action in the first place, meaning that in the worst possible scenario you end up exactly where you started. You're holding back because you're afraid of giving concrete stances on things you don't have fully formed, not because of the answer, and that's not a good reason to not respond.
So again, answer. You're not good enough to "withhold information" with so little on the line, especially when you're tripping over yourself trying to make it look like you know what you're doing.
AB said:
http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/7/70/Cool_story_bro.jpg
More deflections.
Then it starts to get more serious with a vote on AB by Ryker.
AB in response said:
Care to explain why?
I know OS is hung up on an academic difference of opinion, but what's your reasoning?
His second direct question of the game, this one in response to a vote on him (the first was to FF being defensive)
AButthead's first "real" post:
AB said:
Eh, RVS is gone now, nothing I can do about it anymore. Thanks folks.
Unvote, vote: Frozenflame
In answer to your question OS, being mostly passive and piggybacking off other's reveling is scummy. Silence not necessarily, which is why it's beneficial to give RVS time to develop naturally instead of ending it early.
Other people that had something of this were JTB and Ryker, both people I wanted more time to examine so I could get a good read, but what strikes me with FF is the sheer defensiveness he's had an the otherwise lack of initiative in his posts, beyond some slight initiative in the first post.
Nich is probably town, in spite of the fact that he is still doing that fake contributing habit cause somehow he picked up that saying useless things and asking useless questions to get out of RVS is pro-town. I can't fault him that much cause I used to do it though, and he's earnest with them.
Xartes and Raziek didn't have an RVS for all intents and purposes (one of the major reasons why I wanted more time).
I like inferno for town, his posts convey a newbieish understanding of mafia while attempting to put pressure and people and catch scum. Probably newbtown.
Already covered OS.
Unsure of RR and Rajam atm.
@OS: I have a question, what do you think my alignment is?
Boatchouli said:
Point to where. No one ever questioned AM on what they meant in regards to specific posts. The one or two times it was mentioned, it was quickly cleared up. No, that's a recurring theme with that hydra that will occur again.
Now you're saying there is a complete lack of content when there is obviously not. And I really am ****ing tired of these mother ****ing snakes in my mother ****ing boots.
Scum team is Nich, OS, and AB. Calling it.
Abuttheads said:
Care justify... any of that?
I get you being on me, my standoffish personality and apparently unpopular view about RVS made me the target de jour, but what the heck is your justifacation for nich and OS?
Nich is playing his standard noobtown game.
OS has pretty much ticked off all all of his towntells boxes so far, heck if anything the exchange we had dragged it out even more.
You have yet to give any legitimate reasoning as to why either of them might be scum.
Cut the crap, let's here some legit content out of you.
Abuttheads said:
Wait.... why is are there 4 votes on OS?
He's obvious town, unvote now, there are much better places to place our attention and I have no desire to see him picked as a default lynch toDay.
This rings off warning bells to me; there's no reason for him to constantly attach himself to Town's #1 town read (that's me!) at this point in the game. Repeatedly.
OS said:
Quit stalling and pay attention, people have already unvoted me. I don't need you to convince people I'm town, I could convince everyone I'm scum and still not get lynched. Start posting actual content, starting with your thoughts on Terywj and Red Ryu.
AB said:
After I'm out of class and have a chance to read things in depth.
OS said:
I would advise against posting without reading things, then.
AB said:
Also, no OS. We are not doing bioware again. You can't pull that off with this playerlist, if enough people think you're scum YOU WILL DIE or at least be forced to claim. Rather then pulling these overwrought complex plans that fall apart under their own weight, go back to basics with your game.
His 3rd deflection! After calling him out for piggybacking on my town read, he attempts to judo it and flip the discussion around to me.
OS said:
This accomplishes what, with this game? I thought you had class, or are you not that busy at the moment?
AB said:
Snatching lulls to post obviously. I type of my notes a lot faster then most professors need to explain their slides.
I've got like 10 minutes till my next one which has no internet so I'll use what time I have to read.
OS, you need an overwrought plan EVERY game. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it fails spectacularly, I'd prefer not to repeat your bioware performance.
AB said:
RR is leaning scum, two things that strike me are his willingness to stand up to ryker (even though it's not on a matter of reads, it still attracts a ton of attention), and the fact that he's very non-commital in general. I haven't seen a strong stance from him and the fact that he commented on two discussions and only gave one read out the players involved is wierd and smacks of his scumplay in HxH.
Tery seems to be trying to avoid attention at every turn, he's posted a list of reads but beyond that all that I see out of him are promises to contribute and excuses for why he didn't contribute. Scum
And I spent too long on this, late for class, toodles.
More reads from Adumb, but again... no bite. No vote, no push, no questions. Nothing but deflections and adumb saying "go look over there" so far. No cases. And this is on two players who he's calling scum because they're avoiding attention. Hardly an effective strategy, imo.
Xatres said:
@AB: What's the deal with being so eager to defend OS? You two have been battling since RVP, and he only had 4 votes last votecount. We weren't exactly in danger of a mislynch, so the only benefit I can see of you defending him is to try garner yourself some town-points.
AB said:
Because he's obvious-town and is or at least was being heavily wagoned without any good reason whatsoever.
The fact that he generally likes being a **** and loves spinning webs regardless of alignment means that being at this level makes him pretty easy to mislynch and I have no desire to let that happen.
The first clue that Xatres and AB aren't scum together. Not too important, except AB still feels the need to tell everyone I'm town.
Gheb of AB said:
The post you asked about was made by adum. I didn't actually post anything other than the pic in the beginning
But I will try to contact adum [adum should read this as "****ing get on Skype, cuntbag"] and talk about stuff. JFYI most of the contributions in this thread will likely be by adum as I need to do justice to my caveman status so if you have any meta-knowledge on him it may actually be useful to you. I will mostly provide the entertainment and 'em pics
This just proof that it's all Adumb.
Circus said:
At least one person on this wagon is being opportunistic.
Vote: Inferno
Tery can die. But that's a job for a vig, if anyone, the way I see it right now.
AB said:
AB's defended Infero and called him town in the past, so far the only person with a town read otehr than the ever-visible Nich and Myself.
Then the left turn:
AB said:
Unvote
My current reads are scum on Raziek and Xatres. The amount of fuzz they created about Rajam's case being "bad" is remarkable considering there was a lot of truth behind his points. Just because the "slip" part was an exaggeration or a misinterpretation [or both] doesn't mean that the very core of his argument doesn't hold any merit. In fact I'd even go as far as to say that Overswarm created this whole scenario on purpose to lure out reactions from different sides. That doesn't make OS any more or less townie but it certainly goes to show who is being genuine with his reads [Rajam] and who's more interested in their own benefit [Xatres and Raziek].
Out of the "veteran" players here it's Circus that troubles me the most. Even when he doesn't post a lot I can tell fairly quick when he's scum or not simply due to how much we played and interacted with each other in all our dGames career and I can't remember the last time I was wrong about him. I'm not fond of his explanation on why he voted Tery and I also don't like his last post.
Now his scum reads are Raziek and Xatres instead of RR and Tery. That's cool, I guess. A little suspicious of Circus, which is understandable; Circus is a strong player who's been pretty quiet too. That's always a reason for suspicion; you should always try to get info from quiet town players like Frozen Flame who isn't going to read this post.
But not a scum read on Circus... just "troubled", but he seems to imply with the rest of his post that Circus is scum.
AB said:
Vote Raziek
Don't play the derp-card here. Since I have no reason to believe your scum read - and I stated why that is - repeating that "you're pursuing a scum read" is meaningless and doesn't refute my point in the slightest. It's just a redundant assertion to stall the argument as you just repeat the same old. Yet you fail to point out which of Rajam's concerns with Overswarm's post are questionable and how they lead to the conclusion that Rajam is scummy. The possible benefits for you are that you either hope to gain Overswarm's trust [in case he's town] or that you nudge the sentiment that he's obvtown [in case he's scum] - both trades are in your favor if you're mafia.
This in reference to Raziek's push on Rajam for his questioning of me.
AB said:
Also, everybody is free to ignore Overswarm's request to point out their two top scumreads in the manner he proposed. Of course it's good enough to only point out one read if it's a thorough one and of course you can give explanation that goes beyond what he asks - you're not his puppets and if you don't trust him or think that it's better not to do as he asks it's perfectly fine to not follow suit.
The post that damned him
AB's response to my vote said:
AB's previous post said:
Vote Raziek
Don't play the derp-card here. Since I have no reason to believe your scum read - and I stated why that is - repeating that "you're pursuing a scum read" is meaningless and doesn't refute my point in the slightest. It's just a redundant assertion to stall the argument as you just repeat the same old. Yet you fail to point out which of Rajam's concerns with Overswarm's post are questionable and how they lead to the conclusion that Rajam is scummy. The possible benefits for you are that you either hope to gain Overswarm's trust [in case he's town] or that you nudge the sentiment that he's obvtown [in case he's scum] - both trades are in your favor if you're mafia.
Raziek said:
How is this playing the derp card?
The two scenarios you outlined are effects that could occur on the Overswarm end of things.
You didn't even ADDRESS the Rajam end of things.
I have pointed out multiple times that I believe Rajam's case is constructed largely on WIFOM, and he's been trying to bully Xatres into joining his case by means of subtle FoS and implicating him in an OS/Xatres/Boat scumteam.
Xatres said:
You are ignoring the fact that the only reason Raz has had to repeat himself so much is that Rajam has been refusing to answer any questions about this. He made a crappy argument, tried to drag what he perceived as a newbish player into it, and is now ignoring all criticism and refusing to support his position.
This includes...
1. His original argument on OS
2. Any other evidence for OS being scum
3. His reasons for making OS/you/me his scumteam
Vote: Rajam
When I've encountered this kind of behavior in the past, it's almost always been done by a scum/indy player.
@Rajam: Please explain your scum picks in detail.
@OS: Why do you think AB is the play for today?
I like Xatres.
Inferno said:
@AB - What idea do you offer instead?
AB said:
Deflection.
AB said:
EBWOP: @AB at least hold to your word and give us a scum pick.
AB said:
Deflection again.
JTB said:
Entertain me with some reasoning as to why it's a bad idea to answer Overswarms question other than a trust issue.
Adumb said:
Why should I provide reasoning for something I don't even believe myself? I never said that it's a bad idea to answer his questions - the only thing I said that you have no obligation to do it in the exact manner he proposed or to do it at all for that matter. It is not a bad idea. It is not a good idea. If you have something worthwhile answer it - if you don't it's not wrong to not answer.
Red Ryu said:
AB what is the harm of sharing scum picks?
Adumb said:
That's a stupid question and you should feel stupid for posing it.
Two more deflections.
And then...
Red Ryu said:
AB what is the harm of sharing scum picks?
Adumb said:
Except he's not ASKING for scumpicks, he's asking for lynch choices. There's a substantial difference.
He decides to revisit this for some reason... only to attempt to justify and deflect again.
OS said:
I'm asking for what two people they would lynch right now, not lynch choices. There's a substantial difference.
Adumb said:
Fair enough, point is you weren't asking for scumpicks.
Red Ryu said:
I didn't consider it a difference but oh well.
Mind sharing your scum picks either way?
Adumb said:
Both hydra heads already have.
Deflection. He's been deflecting against Red Ryu a lot now, 3 times, 2 on the same quote.
With as many times as Adumb has been doing backflips to NOT answer questions but still respond to them, he's just about cemented my read on him.
OS said:
*AB rings the scum bell*
Come on AB. Scum 101 is to not answer questions directly and instead send people on hunts through the thread. You're either scum, or playing a really ****ty town game. What town advantage is there to not going along with this stuff? You're being obstinate.
Just lynch AB today.
vote: Analytical Buttheads
AB said:
*sigh*
Stop being dumb OS, you do that regardless of alignment and so do a lot of other players, encouraging people to read your back posts isn't a scumtell. Especially considering that I have very limited access right now.
Scumbag AButtheads.
Claims to have limited access.
Has more posts than anyone but OS, most of them being him not answering questions.
Red Ryu said:
I'm on my phone that will take too long restate them.
Adumb said:
Speaking for both heads, FF, boat, xatres, raz.
Finally some reads!
Different than his other reads though.
Previous scum reads up to this point:
Red Ryu, Tery, Raziek, Xatres, and Circus. Each referenced once.
Scum reads from this post:
FF, Boat, Xatres, Raziek. FF/Boat only here, Xatres/Raziek referenced prior.
Gheb said:
Isn't it just cute how OS tries to bully everybody into voting our playerslot on the account that we are detrimental when it's he, who does nothing else but to tunnel us based on a pathetic excuse of a reason and offers nothing else ... two days before the deadline?
Scumbag AButtheads. Avoids answering questions as OS tries to get everyone in the game to clear someone as town with an obvious play, then refuses to go through with it and drags town down for the rest of the day by not answering questions or pushing any cases.
Then attempts to judo it onto OS.
But for real - who is the true detriment here? Is it our playerslot who has offered more than enough information, directions and reasons to find a good lynch or is it Overswarm who still hasn't learned the difference between "applying skill" and "applying force"? Or is it the inactives and semi-actives that stall discussion? I'm pretty sure there's nothing detrimental about us compared to almost EVERYBODY else.
I think you've made 0 cases, you've called 7 of the 13 players scum once and 2 of the 13 players scum twice, haven't questioned any of the inactives, haven't questioned any of your scum reads, and have all in all been a complete detriment to town in every way. Even if you were town and had 100% accuracy in reads, no one is going to listen to them. No one would listen to them even after your flip, because you haven't done anything about them whatsoever.
Nich, what have you accomplished by voting this playerslot other than making yourself look like one of Overswarm's tools? No, you haven't pressured us into anything, you have learned nothing that you didn't know before or that we wouldn't have given you over time anyway. No, you have no idea that there could be something more to his ******** tunneling because there obviously isn't more. Quit being dumb and start playing with *your* head, thanks.
Let's see.... Let's think for a second...
If I were AButthead and I were scum, and Nich was on my wagon.... and my wagon was started by Overswarm...
What's the BEST way to turn Nich's tendencies against himself.... hmmm....
Oh, I get it!
-_-;;
The worst thing about this post is even though it's about as subtle as a woolly mammoth in a swimming pool Nich is jumpy enough to fall for it. The irony of being worried about being tricked being what causes you to get tricked is quite delicious though.
All of the scum picks adum and I have discussed together make good lynches toDay: Frozen and Ryker from adums side [Gheb agrees that both make solid lynches], Raziek and Xatres from Gheb's side [adum disagrees with neither of these lynches]. We're set to finish this Day phase in a reasonable manner - you all better get to it as well.
Aaaaaaand the last post is finished. Gheb's aggressiveness here rings the scum bells for him too.
Frozen, Ryker, Raziek, Xatres.
Previous scum reads up to his previous switch:
Red Ryu, Tery, Raziek, Xatres, and Circus. Each referenced once.
His last list:
FF, Boat, Xatres, Raziek.
His new list:
Frozen, Ryker, Raziek, Xatres.
His last two are consistent, which is kind of a good sign.
NOW IN GRAPH FORM :D :D :D :D
AB towards FF in post 69 said:
Between this and your latest post, why so defensive brah?
AB towards Boat as referenced above said:
Care to explain why?
I know OS is hung up on an academic difference of opinion, but what's your reasoning?
(his vote on me was RVS, keep in mind)
Long story short, if I have to choose a lynch today I'd choose the guy being detached, deflective, and the largest fake contributor of the day. e.g., AButtheads.
That thing he wouldn't do by the way? I'll get to that in a moment. We would have a confirmed townie, but nope.
@mod request votecount
I probably should have proofread this post, but whatever.
