Megaman Unlimited Mafia - Day 6 begins! No one killed!

[Rake the Lawndry]

ebwop: nvm, wow, the game really slowed down after this. what the hell?

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

Though looking back now he didn't vote Kantrip despite strong agreement at the time...

I want to hear what Yolo's reasons are or if he's just suspicious of the guff the slot has been giving him lately.

j/s that's a thing circus does, don't really throw that much into your reads, i've seen him do it as either alignment.

 

[Rajam]

Prod-dodge

Can't play/read much right now but I'll be full commited to this from tomorrow.

 

[Kantrip]

Did Raziek refuse to out why he thought I had private information of his alignment? He shouldn't get a pass on that one, I'm curious too

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Did Raziek refuse to out why he thought I had private information of his alignment? He shouldn't get a pass on that one, I'm curious too

Aren't you the one who said we should be townreading him for that?

 

[Kantrip]

Aren't you the one who said we should be townreading him for that?

I never said anyone else should townread anyone for anything. I was just sharing my own read.

But yes. It's something I don't think scum thinking of. Doesn't mean I don't want to know why he thought it.

 

[Kantrip]

Aren't you the one who said we should be townreading him for that?

Also ugh you're so passive aggressive still even when I'm talking about people other than you

If you're not scum go to some counselling

 

[Circus]

oh cool easy catchup

@ Circus

lets be real jerkus. you love me. youre like that girl who pushes away their crush in high school but turns around immediately heart fluttering and eyes glistening after i walk by

I mean, I never denied that.

 

[Circus]

I guess that's true, but he gets in Raz's grill for fence sitting, when he's kind of doing that himself. He never put down a vote, he's just hanging back. It seems like he's playing safe, like he could change his mind at any moment.

Raziek's current stance on Kanty/you (which is basically the only thing he has even briefly talked about all game):

Honestly, after watching all this bickering and reading people's thought on the matter....

I'm kinda starting to feel like this might be TvT.

I still don't want to lynch Kantrip, though.

I'm in the process of packing, so I'll probably only have time for a quick post series tomorrow morning, and then it's off to the airport.

My current stance on Kanty/you:

...Kanty just put Jdietz above PJB in terms of scumminess for going against him, and then [dropped] the classic "go ahead and lynch me then" scumtell....

Very tempted to vote Kantrip right now but I know he's close to hammer and we don't need that happening just yet. Want more from Kanty supporters regarding how his recent spat with PJB ended. If I was hesitant before, I'm pretty much ready to roll on it now.

Don't know what about that is remotely similar to you. If you just don't like that I haven't voted yet, sorry not sorry. I typically don't lay 'er down unless I'm actually ready to lynch. But it shouldn't be difficult to tell what I'm thinking because I've been laying it all out pretty neatly.

 

[Circus]

I never said anyone else should townread anyone for anything. I was just sharing my own read.

"Yeah, I thought it was townie, but that doesn't mean that I think you should think it's townie even though literally the point of the game is for us to convince each other that our reads are right."

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Prod-dodge

Can't play/read much ever but I'll be catching up to this from tomorrow until the end of time.

Fix'd.

So I read some back and I'm really not digging Rake the Lawndry, especially on a townKantrip flip. Sure, the whole idiocy of the Kantrip case is just something that Rake just does (read: the rake effect), but Laundry's approach to reading Kantrip v PJB was bizarre.

Just notes for myself:

P.8:
-Kantrip's pushing Joker. /Why/ is Kantrip pushing Joker? I still think Raz's stated reasons to believe Kantrip is town are bull**** and I think Joker's response was nothing in particular to say it was scum. What's the justification here because this seems like a reach.

-Can I mention that at this point, my only sight of Circus is his commenting on people's roles and not anything that was going on during the game. Can I mention that that's the type of Circus I expect to see as scum? We'll see if his later posts redeem my sight of him but that ****'s like a ****ing magnet for scumCircus.

-So Kanty spells it out. It's better than I imagined by the point about him trying to convince Raz that "raz" is scum kinda weakens it for me. He was trying to convince Raz that Potato is scum. To say he missed the point seems like an accurate summary. I don't think Joker was trying to insinuate Raz was scum.

-why did a joker wagon form from this ****


"you were a **** so i still want you dead"


we get the basis of it

"you were a **** to me and so i think you're scum"

actually that's strawmanning the hell out of it but he wasn't completely off-base when he was saying you were manufacturing intent, you simply had it wrong (the argument of whether or not it was intentional is another case). calling him hyper defensive when you were literally saying he was scum for the wrong reasons doesn't seem right.

joker did come off as a bit defensive but i actually dislike kantrip more based on this.

-joker's #314 is ****ing gross though

bbl got class in half an hour and i need a shower

It seems like, since the slot already had the read on Kantrip, they kept the goggles on and kept their opinion of it anti Kantrip. In fact, that's exactly what their whole play regarding Kantrip has been. They've strapped their tunnel goggles on tight and they ain't lettin go.

Their first point basically highlights their lack of empathy for the slot at all (on page god damn 8, mind you), and their conviction of the slot being scum no matter what seems evident. That's not how town thinks. Laundry, at this point in time, only really had Rake's DAMNING case against Kantrip to fall back on for his read, which had about a page or two worth of content on Kantrip at the time.

His second point, especially looking at it with the knowledge that they're now seeing the light in Circus' play, looks bussy. Circus had five posts up to this point. He mentions that Circus' focusing on roles (which to Circus' credit was just about the only thing going on while he was posting at that time) being a Circus scum tell, but that hey maybe Circus cleaned up his act. And wouldn't you know it he did! I don't think it works the opposite way but I'd certainly look at Rake the Lawndry on a scumCircus flip.

Oh and no this isn't the only point I have but ya know toast.

Rake the Lawndry's play feels just as preconceived as PJB's, but PJB is caught in the rake effect, regardless of alignment. I'd be cool with PJB going toDay to see what he flips and to go off of that, but where I think PJB looks scummy because of circumstances, Rake the Lawndry looks scummy in spite of circumstances.

Vote: Rake the Lawndry[/i]

I'm gonna play the Omni card and say that Rajam is useless to us and I'd love to lynch him too.

 

[Circus]

...What?

WashRake is not the play for reasons that I already outlined and you agreed with (I think).

Also, how are you still pro-Kantrip after his recent posts? It's like you're trying so hard not to see the scum right in front of you.

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

gorf i can't even begin to crack at that because it's 100% opinion and nothing i can argue. i can say it wasn't preconceived until i'm blue in the face but i (nor you) can prove a damn thing about your points at this point. you're simply looking at my play and spinning it into a negative light to fit your needs.

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

I mean, ****, I reread specifically with the intentions of focusing on PJB and Kantrip. I didn't walk into that with some idea already of what was going on. I had heard from my other head that that had become a highlight but I hadn't actually seen anything along those lines. If you want to say anything was preconceived, that's it--I simply went back looking at that conversation in specific because my other head told me to do so. That's it.

and where the **** did i mention circus looking bussy, i simply mentioned that i didn't like how circus chose to look specifically at the roleclaims going on and nothing else in the game. scumcircus has a habit of avoiding interactions with players and instead either occupying the armchair or talking about mechanics or something of that like. lo and behold, he starts this game talking about the roles. i didn't like him initially but on reread, the rest of his play made me feel a lot better about that slot, particularly that he was one of the firsts to realize you guys were being giant idiots about potato's play.

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

and i mean **** gorf if you think i'm just gonna take rake's read on a whim instead of coming to my own conclusions based on kantrip's ****ty push and absolutely horrible play, you really don't think highly of me as a mafia player

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

hit me up when you're ready to drop the rest of these points however, i'd love to see what other **** you've got that isn't just **** spun to fit your opinion

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

...What?

WashRake is not the play for reasons that I already outlined and you agreed with (I think).

Also, how are you still pro-Kantrip after his recent posts? It's like you're trying so hard not to see the scum right in front of you.

See: the rake effect.

I said that the way you presented Circus in that post looked bussy. He had a total of five posts and you felt it was worth mentioning that it certainly looked like a scumCircus thing to. I dunno that point is more of a stretch than anything else I'll admit but that's just mah taste.

gorf i can't even begin to crack at that because it's 100% opinion and nothing i can argue. i can say it wasn't preconceived until i'm blue in the face but i (nor you) can prove a damn thing about your points at this point. you're simply looking at my play and spinning it into a negative light to fit your needs.

No I'm not. I calls it as I sees it. In fact, lemme ask, who are your scum reads at this point? Cuz I haven't seen any form of a push or substantiation from you outside of Kantrip being scum that I can recall, but you've certainly had a lot of bark in you.

and i mean **** gorf if you think i'm just gonna take rake's read on a whim instead of coming to my own conclusions based on kantrip's ****ty push and absolutely horrible play, you really don't think highly of me as a mafia player

You don't have **** on Kantrip from before he came back and called out PJB. In fact, I think you even said so yourself, that you were letting Rake go on his own whim and that you can "understand where he's coming from." That's mad weak yo. I do definitely think that that post I quoted of yours was your insight, but I think it's scummy.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

...What?

WashRake is not the play for reasons that I already outlined and you agreed with (I think).

Also, how are you still pro-Kantrip after his recent posts? It's like you're trying so hard not to see the scum right in front of you.

When, during the whole claim schpeal thing?

The whole claim just makes the slot very problematic to deal with. Nevermind the fact that I just kind of hate that he dropped it out of nowhere under the guise of "I'm kind of like a miller so whatever" (which isn't even really true), because there's no actual town intent from that that I can detect. Beyond that, we just can't have a bomb hanging around if he's actually telling the truth. If he's town, scum won't hammer him because 1-for-1 trade is not a ratio scum would be willing to suffer, and now that they know about WashRake, they can't even do it accidentally. If WashRake is scum, then we're never going to get him lynched because none of the PRs in this game (so everyone, probably) are going to be willing to throw themselves onto what is potentially a live grenade. So we either cross our fingers, hope he's town, and let the slot ride to endgame, or we nip it in the bud with a bullet.

I said I agreed with you on this point and that I wanted to get a read on em, and actually (TIME TO TWIST THINGS TO FIT MY READ LAUNDRY BETTER CALL ME ON THIS!) I can see a scumLaundrake using this claim to his advantage and honestly CAN'T see the town intent behind this claim so early. If I were him with this restriction the first thing I'd think is "draw the NK, and this accomplishes the complete opposite. Scum would keep a town bomb around, which justifies him staying alive, and town won't want em lynched because well ****.

Btw before you say that my case is a reach cmon bro. This is D1. EVERYTHING in the history of mafia ever is a reach on D1. It's all about reaching for the right shiz

 

[Nicholas1024]

Votecount:

Potassium (4) - Rajam, PJB, YOLOSWAG, YOLOSWAG,
PJB (4) - Potassium, Gorf, JDietz43, Red Ryu,

Not voting: Raziek, Xatres, Nicholas1024, Circus, BadWolf, RakeTheLawndry

Votes required to lynch: 7/13

Alright, time for that analysis. The above quote is a pretty good reference as far as who's originally been on whose wagon. PJB/Kantrip I've already gone over before, I'm pretty confident in PJB town, and I still think Kantrip's town. Granted, he's being extremely illogical at the moment, but I think if he was scum, his scum mates would be telling him to shut up and back off by now. (I suppose in the case of scum-kant it's also possible for his mates to be bussing him, but I'll worry about that possibility if he does actually flip scum.) Furthermore, Jdietz has since posted that his vote was on PJB only due to his restriction (that he needs to be voting someone at the end of the day or die), and his thoughts on their interactions has mirrored my own, so I'm going to skip him. On to the rest.

I'm going to go ahead and order these from "Least important" to "Most important", so if you're short on time, go ahead and skip past this first bit.

Spoiler: Rajam

VOTE: POTATIUM

This one's the easiest, yet least fruitful to analyze. Basically, Rajam has been way behind all game, and his vote has been on Kant since what's basically an RVS wagon. His only post since Tuesday was a prod dodge, and I don't think there's ever been a time when he was actually caught up.

Conclusion: Vigbait until proven otherwise.

Spoiler: YOLO

@ Rake the Lawndry

youre asserting that rakes early game approach helped him gained reads. what reads did he get? im askin this in a genuinely curious and not in a smartass way

this pb+j wagon is TRASH

potato needs to get ****ed up. pb+j is scummy for "jumping on raz with words"...what the ****? im pretty sure the dudes allowed to test the waters of other slots. him staying on pb+j for a bunch of whackass reasons is far too trash to be tolerated

potato needs to be ****ed outta hear

vote potassium

i dont find potatos observations regarding pb+js use of language compelling. i can understand cuz i used to think use of adverbs and qualifiers was scummy but it really depends on the person. some *****s just talk like that

ima be pissed as **** if pb+j gets lynched over potato and i hav to waste my ****ing time d2 righting what shouldve been done. potatos push against him was dumb and pb+j said as much. why is that problematic? ifi hav a loud vocal playing comin at me for reasons i believe are ******** no **** am i gonna get mad and prolly start talkin ****. i dont get why *****s callin other *****s trash is seen as scummy

Yolo's case on Potassium is pretty much "He's a ******, therefore he deserves to be lynched", and he was also one of the people defending PJB "before it was cool", so to speak. This is pretty much exactly what I'd expect from Marshy regardless of alignment. I don't think that lynching stupid people is a great way to catch scum, but it is something that this slot would push for, especially D1.


Conclusion: Mostly null. Will upgrade to town lean if Kantrip is scum.

Important reads section:

Spoiler: Red Ryu

Now it starts getting interesting. After roughly 10 pages of pictures, Circus finally gets Red Ryu to post words, and here's a list of his related posts since then.

Gorf at the very least knows some of my reads.

Badwolf town
Gorf town.
Rake/laundry more likely town.
Kantrip town lean

You [PJB] scum.

Circus and Raz are mixed bags though.

There's one thing I want to note about Red Ryu's posts, and that's that the content involved is often minimal. For instance, the above might be a reads list, but how does it help town? What discussion does it provoke? How does it help anyone else get reads or lynch scum?

Furthermore, the vast majority of his posts from here on out are all about lynching PJB. Observe.

I like Kantrip a bit, PJB not so much.

Do you not think his [PJB's] reaction was like in Elements and Attributes?

Because his reaction looks really bad.

Side note here, everything after this point took place after my first wall giving my view on PJB vs Kantrip.

I think PJB is scum because his reaction was bad in a scummy way, but I am delving on both yours and Laundry's posts.

Joker even without meta I think what you did was scummy.

Meta is icing on the cake.

Kantrip being right or wrong isn't as much the issue as to how you responded later. Even if we consider him as wrong you took a very offensive and antagonistic way to respond to him. That looks gross when you were under pressure by him.

Your reads list does have back doors but still, I'm not as bothered by that. Your reaction to Kantrip is worse.

So I've actually been reading the whole time, but i'm also still watching AGDQ bonus stream, and you guys are posting NON STOP. Also, I was waiting for kantrip to fully catch up before refuting him, because I was sure he would realize he was completely wrong about me. Then he caught up, and still thinks I'm scum, and I remembered that he's bad at this game.

Kantrip, why is that post even gross? Nobody but you sees it, fill me in.

This isn't calling him Kantplay this is you making an overly aggressive and defensive action back at him over pressure.

This is no joke, you're dead serious in the wording here bu saying "I remembered that he's bad at this game."

This is scummy.

That was one of the if not the first post back to Kantrip.

It wasn't even loud at that point with people gunning for him, that was at the start of it and it gets worse from there.

He called it off with barely any pressure and keeps getting worse from there. It's not just him calling him trash, it's how he approached it back to Kantrip putting pressure on.

So here's his push against PJB. The thing is, none of this is actually original. If you go through the quotes above, it amounts to "I don't like PJB calling Kantrip bad.", with a side order of meta. To be blunt, that's not a scum-tell if it's actually warranted. (Ryker/Marshy call people morons all the time.) Furthermore, this push came after my long reply about why this exact point is complete and utter trash, and there's no response to it.

However, if we look ahead to his next two posts, we get these gems.

I'm gonna reread.

Unvote

I think I'm wrong here.

And that's it. Nothing on what changed his mind, no "Let's look here next", just… "My bad, guys." So what happened? Well, here's some posts by other people in roughly the same timeframe.

First (and more obviously), this whole exchange does not reflect badly on PJB in any way, and I officially retract my past FOS on him. He's null-leaning town for me right now.

ima be pissed as **** if pb+j gets lynched over potato and i hav to waste my ****ing time d2 righting what shouldve been done. potatos push against him was dumb and pb+j said as much. why is that problematic? ifi hav a loud vocal playing comin at me for reasons i believe are ******** no **** am i gonna get mad and prolly start talkin ****. i dont get why *****s callin other *****s trash is seen as scummy

Honestly, after watching all this bickering and reading people's thought on the matter....

I'm kinda starting to feel like this might be TvT.

Similarly, Jditz and Circus expressed their own dislike for the PJB wagon. In short, PJB quit being a legitimate lynch option.

So, to summarize.

1.Red Ryu's contributions are almost completely limited to the PJB case.
2.Red Ryu 's contributions to the PJB case are pretty much rehashes of what Kant or Gorf said beforehand.
3.After a bunch of people expressed their dislike for the PJB wagon, Red Ryu unvoted without reasoning.

My conclusion is that he's faking contribution, and hard. In fact, let me ask this to the game at large. Can anyone name a Red Ryu read aside from Kantrip/PJB with reasoning behind it?

Conclusion: He'd make a pretty good lynch.

FOS: Red Ryu

Spoiler: Gorf

Aside from Kantrip, Gorf has easily been the person pushing PJB the hardest. He's also been one of the few defenders of Kantrip town.

So @ #HBC | Joker what you're saying is that Kantrip is scum cuz reasons and everybody else is town.

Btw @ Circus that second to last paragraph of the PJB's 499 is a pretty good example of parroting just sayin.

@YOLOSWAG does that mean you think PJB's play is cool?

That's actually a good point. The only solid stance he's willing to make is Kantrip scum.

You know who loves doing this type of shiz?

Noob scum

I said cuz reasons as a stand in for the reason that I didn't feel like reiterating. Albeit I HAVE seen your reasoning and, just like Rake's WONDERFUL case at the beginning of the game, I think it's garbage.

I said one solid stance. In that post you do the following:

Make your stance on kantrip clear.
Mention something to dietz, allude to having a town read on em but don't give an impression either way.

Those two I don't see as scummy. But then you go on.

@@Circus You're cool.

@@YOLOSWAG this guy knows what's up

I think Gorf is probably town.

Raz is still pretty null to me, for those who have asked.

Badwolf is probably town, [...]

RTL might be town.

This is the grime central. There's a back door for every single one of these slots in case you wanna change em in the future. It's super shady.

You're allowed to not have stances. That's a thing. I feel like you're faking content. Hard.

-.-

First post was in response to kantrip saying you have so many qualifiers when you post. That is a good point, and something noob scum loves to pull. You have multiple stances, but they're almost all wishy washy. That's the content I feel like you're faking. I'm not going to give you a run down on how to not be scummy but you're allowed to have reads and you're allowed to not have reads. The way you're presenting yourself in thread is that of a very scummy manner, and therefore I feel you deserve the noose.

Anything else you wanna misinterpret?

Up to this point, nothing stands out all that much. Unlike Ryu, he is producing content, and although I feel he's pretty much completely wrong, that on its own is not a scum tell. However, let's take a look at his next few posts.

@YOLOSWAG will do. Oh and yea potato's are better than pb+j that's why pb+j should get ****ed outta here.

I will also take this time to call upon @yoloswag420blazeit because by god what a name.

Wait a minute @Red Ryu so lemme get this straight you don't like PJB's play and your vote is on Kantrip. How do you feel about them being potential mates?

Oh and @Raziek mind throwing your vote on PJB? I just hate looking at the votecount and seeing that PJB has 3 votes whereas Kantrip has 5.

Don't forget Dietz Nich and I think raz, all six of us are reaching to unknown ends for this ****ty pjb case if you don't recall.

>how much are you guys gonna reach for joker
>joker is still dicey

wut

He's extremely vehement about getting Joker lynched, and when asked about why he has Kant as town, all he can offer is:

I dunno cuz I read his posts and think damn that's very townie thing to think in this situation more often than not

And eventually he unvotes.

As a matter of fact I do. I DO think PJB is scummy but I'm willing to consider that him and Kantrip were caught in the rake effect (the rake effect - the act of one (often rake) or more players being so eager to find somebody scummy early on that they tweak their brain to find somebody scummy who is just in the thread early), so I'm gonna go ahead and do this.

Unvote

However, despite Kantrip flailing around since then, Gorf has continued to maintain that Kant's town, for reasons I can't even comprehend. And finally, there's his super-recent case on Rake, which I'm not going to quote here, but I feel is pretty bad, and reinforces my view that he's trying to drag the lynch away from Kantrip.

So what's the fallout? I see three possibilities.

1. Gorf is town and his stances are legitimate. Personally, I think this is the least likely.
2. Gorf is scum and trying to get brownie points for defending Kantrip-town up until he gets lynched.
3. Gorf is scum and doing everything possible to get Kantrip-scum off the hook.

To be blunt, although I could buy Gorf legitimately thinking PJB is scum, his defense of Kant looks incredibly bad, to the point where my own read on Kantrip has gone down to null.

Conclusion: Also a good lynch. If Kant ever flips scum, he needs to die, fast.

FOS: Gorf

Summary:
I'm fully willing to support a Red Ryu lynch (For faking contribution) or a Gorf lynch (For scummy interactions with Kantrip). I will vote Kantrip to avoid a no-lynch, but I don't feel he's the best play right now.

@Red Ryu
Convince me that you've provided legitimate content of your own; that you have your own scum reads and that you're willing to push them.

@ #HBC | Gorf
Convince me that your defense of Kantrip is reasonable.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I mean haven't I outlined why I thought he was town while the thread was going on? That's why I said what I said about my reasoning for reading Kantrip as town when whoever it was asked me. I mean I'll look back n see if I did but like my main reasons for defending him as hard as I am is cuz people are on his grill, I don't wanna waste an ML on him (cuz I'm town reading him), he's here a lot and I'm here a lot. But I'll look back for ya chum.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

What is it?

Oh hey cool YOLOSWAG's a double voter. One step closer to a one-man HBC

Vote: RAZIEK

We may be yet. I just want to do some trust building exercises.

Rake the Lawndry, I actually wanna know what your opening post was about.

I'm going to lean back and you're going to catch me before I hit the ground.

Then we'll switch and I'll catch you.

Finally, you'll play in a way that shows me the towniness I know your role PM contains and find some scum.

YOLOSWAG having a doublevoter role and revealing it immediately, what do you make of it?

Good. Please don't be the Rake that has been in recent games. If you aren't doing your best to get reads and stay relevant in the game, I will campaign to have you lynched. In exchange I promise to be town this game. Deal?

Rake, not Laundry, I wanna know what in these posts drove you to feel Kantrip was worthy enough of being lynched. Break it down for me, because all I see is silly RVS and talking about YOLO's dv. You claimed later on that, with the evidence provided, you felt Kantrip deserved the noose. Granted, there may have been more Kantrip posts after this but this was where you voted. This is where you got your scum read. And I want more than bullet points.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Damn Nich I like how you skipped me voting Kantrip in pg 3 to get dem reads on em and others. Or did I just not decide to defend my scum buddy at that moment in time?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I think you should spell it out. RTL spelled out their thoughts on Kantrip, and they were actually similar to mine.

Your town read, on the other hand, I don't get. Hence why I asked you to elaborate.

This was where I first started disliking PJB. Unless I missed it PJB didn't give a single hint of dislike to Kantrip before this, and as we will see as soon as Rake responds to me the reasons that Rake mentioned are terrible, which led me to think that PJB is either really easily swayed or is using that to take a stance. Nothing to call scum over per se but something to keep an eye on.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Actually yea Rake was sold on Kantrip being scum with just those above quotes I wasn't wrong.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Damn Nich I like how you skipped me voting Kantrip in pg 3 to get dem reads on em and others. Or did I just not decide to defend my scum buddy at that moment in time?

Are you seriously claiming you're not scum because you joined an RVS wagon 5 hours after the game started?

 

[Nicholas1024]

EBWOP:

Technically the wagon was an attempt to get out of RVS as opposed to being random silliness, but </details>

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

So it's completely unthinkable that the role he has that allows him to know that you're town, is a role that says "scum" in it, and doesn't have you listed as one of his teammates? You are making a lot of assumptions, based on very little.

This is another post that rubbed me the wrong way before Kantrip v Joker erupted. The whole point is that Raz didn't consider that maybe Kantrip is scum, but WHY WOULD HE EVEN THINK THAT WITH THAT LOGIC? Scum would be going full ****** to do be doing that, and this post feels like a really shallow excuse to call Kantrip scum.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Are you seriously claiming you're not scum because you joined an RVS wagon 5 hours after the game started?

EBWOP:

Technically the wagon was an attempt to get out of RVS as opposed to being random silliness, but </details>

Nah dude I'm just yankin ya.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Didn't intend for it to come off that way, I was just making a little joke to accompany my vote on him. His response made me feel like I had to come up with some witty. Totally spur of the moment.

The first and third points are interpretation-based so I can't really talk you out of it. Will just say that you gave me a good chance to use the Heisenberg gif so I took it.
I don't find Raz town at all at your second point though. See my above quote and response to get what happened there. Still totally null on him but his response to my joke spurred something witty out of me.

This is a reasonable hop. Gorf, upon realizing there are points to push against me, wants to add pressure to it to get me to react.

The push from Rake is null, but I do know that Laundry has a fair grasp on my meta and him agreeing with the push is a little telling to me in the townie direction too.

This was my first tell for townKantrip. Obv he hadn't read up to where I came clean about not having a read on em cuz the rest of his posts were in succession, and he was able to understand my line of thought perfectly. I feel like, as scum, seeing that pressure at all from... I think it was like three people?... would deter you from empathizing with somebody from a townie's POV, and that it'd be all about dat defense. Rather, he's reading people. He took this wagon as an opportunity to read people immediately.

Oh, strange.

I didn't meant to imply this at all sorry for making the joke not-obvious and misleading you like this.

Feel better about Raziek. Him thinking I had information that says I know he is town is a conclusion a townie comes to naturally, not something scum thinks of through an interaction like the one we had.

This is another conclusion that just feels really townie to make. At first he was scum reading Raz for derailing the wagon, but then realizes that the conclusion he came to isn't one that a scummy would make. As scum at this point in reading I don't think it'd be possible to follow the mindset of "Raziek legitimately thinks I have info that he's town as town, lemme give him the slip." Idk, that just feels so townie to me.

His PJB read on the top of pg 8 is reachy at worst, but not illogical, ESPECIALLY if you consider Rake's pg 3 case on Kantrip to be logical.

And then they get into the rake effect. From there is where most find their scum read on Kantrip I believe, but honestly when you're thrown into a battle of words with somebody, you're gonna say dumb, and emotion driven shiz. That's what's been the worst of Kantrip's play in my eyes.

 

[Jdietz43]

See: the rake effect.

When, during the whole claim schpeal thing?



I said I agreed with you on this point and that I wanted to get a read on em, and actually (TIME TO TWIST THINGS TO FIT MY READ LAUNDRY BETTER CALL ME ON THIS!) I can see a scumLaundrake using this claim to his advantage and honestly CAN'T see the town intent behind this claim so early. If I were him with this restriction the first thing I'd think is "draw the NK, and this accomplishes the complete opposite. Scum would keep a town bomb around, which justifies him staying alive, and town won't want em lynched because well ****.

Btw before you say that my case is a reach cmon bro. This is D1. EVERYTHING in the history of mafia ever is a reach on D1. It's all about reaching for the right shiz

@Bold: I was under the impression Rake the Lawndry's claim was a lynch only bomb, how does this affect your opinion of it

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

It doesn't. He absolutely claimed a lynch only bomb. You still wanna draw the NK if you're town cuz having that role makes you a liability to town, seeing how the only way it helps town is by hoping that scum hammers you, which if Laundrake (that's your new name from now on) is town, they wouldn't rely on. Claiming that role scares town from wanting to lynch them, and creates a reason for them not to be NK'd by mafia.

 

[Jdietz43]

This is another post that rubbed me the wrong way before Kantrip v Joker erupted. The whole point is that Raz didn't consider that maybe Kantrip is scum, but WHY WOULD HE EVEN THINK THAT WITH THAT LOGIC? Scum would be going full ****** to do be doing that, and this post feels like a really shallow excuse to call Kantrip scum.

@All Caps: Explain. Explain hard.

 

[Jdietz43]

It doesn't. He absolutely claimed a lynch only bomb. You still wanna draw the NK if you're town cuz having that role makes you a liability to town, seeing how the only way it helps town is by hoping that scum hammers you, which if Laundrake (that's your new name from now on) is town, they wouldn't rely on. Claiming that role scares town from wanting to lynch them, and creates a reason for them not to be NK'd by mafia.

OH, I get it. Yeah that's a reasonable point for wanting to be NK'd over claiming. How likely do you think it is that Laundry in particular would think it safer to claim the role over keeping it secret?

 

[Jdietz43]

(And what do you think of their theory we can force a scummy slot to vote them last which I think they brought up at one point iirc.)

 

[Jdietz43]

(Actually scratch that last question, a townie would be just as reluctant to hammer them under those circumstances most likely...)

I'm going to go and have to try and see which head claimed it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Umm okay Joker's whole point was that Raz may have just been unaware that Kantrip is scum and just knows that Raz is town.

Raz' impression of Kantrip at the very beginning of the game, regardless of alignment, is that Kantrip had information that told em Raz was town and that he was dropping slight hints of it.

Raz has two choices: either Kantrip is scum and... wait why does that make sense. (<-- That's the explanation for the all caps.)

Or that Kantrip is town and is subtly trying to connect with Raziek, a player Kantrip knows to be town (from Raz' POV).

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

OH, I get it. Yeah that's a reasonable point for wanting to be NK'd over claiming. How likely do you think it is that Laundry in particular would think it safer to claim the role over keeping it secret?

I'd honestly think Laundry would wanna draw the NK as town. I've known him for as long as he's played mafia here as a guy who has absolutely no problem playing the support role for town if that's what it calls for, and when your role is anti town as a townie, that's just what you do. The problem is that it was, indeed, Laundry who jumped to claim it.

 

[Jdietz43]

Umm okay Joker's whole point was that Raz may have just been unaware that Kantrip is scum and just knows that Raz is town.

Raz' impression of Kantrip at the very beginning of the game, regardless of alignment, is that Kantrip had information that told em Raz was town and that he was dropping slight hints of it.

Raz has two choices: either Kantrip is scum and... wait why does that make sense. (<-- That's the explanation for the all caps.)

Or that Kantrip is town and is subtly trying to connect with Raziek, a player Kantrip knows to be town (from Raz' POV).

I fail to see in any way how that's unreasonable tbh. Joker doesn't have to know anything about either of their alignments to give Raziek the "don't be dumb" warning. Information doesn't mean town information and I have no idea why you seem to not think so.

(if this is some kind of ploy to get me to white knight PJB on reasonable logic, I guess it's working)

 

[Jdietz43]

I'd honestly think Laundry would wanna draw the NK as town. I've known him for as long as he's played mafia here as a guy who has absolutely no problem playing the support role for town if that's what it calls for, and when your role is anti town as a townie, that's just what you do. The problem is that it was, indeed, Laundry who jumped to claim it.

I see. I'll have to consider that then.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Are you just misreading what I said in my original quote?

"WHY WOULD HE EVEN THINK THAT WITH THAT LOGIC"

He = Raz

It's not inherently unreasonable to think that somebody thought of Kantrip being scum and Raz not realizing, but PJB is wondering how RAZ didn't think of that, and my point is that it makes so much sense why Raz didn't think of that, and that PJB said that without even considering why Raz wasn't thinking scumKantrip with his logic.

Damn I can see how it may be hard to follow what with all these pronouns.