El Nino
That's not the implication. The implication is that there is room for improvement. I don't see the point in setting low standards for ourselves.
You said that the fact that people are living longer than ever before doesn't mean that we're living better. How is that not an implication that we aren't living better?
El Nino
Homicide is not the leading cause of death in the US.
Homicide is the key difference between us and countries like Japan in regards to life expectancy.
Most of the "obese" people in our country look like George Clooney. People aren't dying because they look like George Clooney.
El Nino
It's not judgment, and I never said that either culture was better or worse for it. Medical data has shown correlation between ethnic background and specific health problems. That doesn't mean that any one ethnicity is better than another. One group might do better in one category while doing poorly in another. My own ethnic group has its own set of health issues. Stuff like that is often affected by diet because, in case you didn't know, diet is often tied in to culture. Different communities are usually distinguished by what they eat.
The United States is much more culturally diverse than most countries. We have many people of different cultures living together. If obesity is a problem and it's cultural, how is it that we ended up with all the obese cultures?
El Nino
Interestingly enough, sometimes it's not the meal but the ingredients. Sometimes the same dish prepared in different places will use different ingredients, and they might not only taste different but also have a different impact on a person's health.
I don't know what that has to do with anything.
El Nino
I, for one, am not advocating that a health authority step in and regulate people's diets. But I'd rather people were educated on food and diet and how it relates to health so they can make smarter choices.
People are educated. There isn't anyone alive who hasn't heard about how "fast food is so horrible. It'll make you obese, and blah blah blah."
They are making smart choices. Their choices aren't wrong just because they aren't the ones you think they should be making. When people say "we need to educate people more", what they're really saying is "We need more anti-fast food propaganda, because people aren't submitting to our will."
GrimTuesday
I. Posted. That. Picture. To. Show. Fat. Kids. Exist.
Because you were acting as if "No one is actually fat/unhealthy, it's just that the standard hasn't been changed since back when people were skinnier".
The discussion is not whether or not fat people exist. It's whether or not obesity is a problem in the United States. It would be like me saying our country is overpopulated and then showing you a picture of one person as evidence.
GrimTuesday
As I've already said, neither of us can prove what has caused what. How do you know that while life expectancy has gone up, it wouldn't go up more if people didn't get as unhealthy?
If you admittedly can't be sure that obesity is a problem, then why are you criticizing parents for doing things that you think are causing their kids to be obese?
I don't have to prove anything. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. You're claiming that obesity is a problem, so the burden of proof is on you. Expecting me to prove that it isn't a problem would be like if I were to claim that unicorns exist, and then expect you to provide proof that they don't exist.
GrimTuesday
O I C WUT U DID THAR.
If you fed your rabbit the way you wanted, and he died of some sort of illness caused by obesity, yes you would be a bad rabbit owner.
You already used that analogy, and I already explained to you why it doesn't apply to the actual situation.
GrimTuesday
[lol]Go to Subway instead of McD's?[/lol]
Subway sells toys too. If more people are eating at McDonald's, that should tell you that toys have nothing to do with it. People just like McDonald's. Leave them alone.
GrimTuesday
People are getting too fat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_disease
"As of 2007, it is the leading cause of death in the United States,[1][2] England, Canada and Wales,[3] killing one person every 34 seconds in the United States alone".
(I'm going to ignore the fact that Wikipedia is not a reliable source and for all I know you just wrote that on Wikipedia yourself.)
Heart disease being the leading cause of death in the United States doesn't mean obesity is a problem. There are other causes of heart disease, such as smoking for example. A lot of people in the United States smoke.
Even if I were to grant you that fast food was the leading cause of heart disease, or one of the major causes, that wouldn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed to make that choice for themselves. You don't need freedom to do things that everyone thinks is a good idea. Freedom means being free to make stupid choices.
GrimTuesday
With your logic, we shouldn't have any laws. Every person should be free to do whatever they want.
There's a difference between violating the rights of another person(i.e. murder or stealing), and doing something that other people don't want you to do. You've already said that you don't think there should be a law against fast food, so I'm not even sure what your point is here.
GrimTuesday
If someone wants to raise their kid with health problems, are you saying you're okay with that because it's their choice?
By "raise their kids with health problems", I'm assuming you mean make choices for their children that can result in health problems. You still haven't established that there's a major problem with parents doing that. I tend to think that most parents care more about their own children and are more qualified to make decisions for their own children than anyone else is.
I think that religions are cults and I don't think that children should be indoctrinated into religion. Does that make it my business to tell people whether or not they should raise their children to be religious? Of course not. People are fully capable of making their own choices. When kids raised in religious families grow up they're fully capable of making their own decision as to whether or not they want to continue practicing their religion. If they choose to keep practicing it, that's none of my business.
GrimTuesday
Like El Nino said, we shouldn't control people to the point where we regulate their diet. That would just be totalitarian. But if it is causing deaths, I think it is an issue that SHOULD be controlled.
So we shouldn't control their diet but we should?
GrimTuesday
To reiterate my point so it isn't forgotten: The reason toys are being banned is parents giving into their children's requests for toys too often, which is (at least, so the health people think) leading to obesity issues. So one could say it is the parent's fault that the toys are being banned (but more directly, stupid health people).
I'm not misunderstanding your point. I don't know why you keep repeating it.
GrimTuesday
Well that is pretty much what we are debating over. Wether it is the parent's fault or not.
No, that isn't what we're debating. You have to establish that something wrong is taking place before you can start talking about who's fault it is. It would be like me saying "Who's responsible for dogs going extinct" without ever establishing that dogs are going extinct.
