McDonald's warned: Drop the toys or get sued

[GoldShadow]

Freeman, a) portion sizes are bigger in the US. This is a cultural difference, and b) I think you're really misunderstanding economics and you're trying to apply a few basic principles you've probably learned in a microecon course to something much more complex than that. Do you understand how agriculture works? What about gas prices?

The fact that portion sizes in America are huge is common knowledge.

 

[Deleted member]

If things are cheaper in poorer countries, then it's because you aren't getting as high quality of a product. You're not going to buy a Nintendo DS for less in a country that has fewer Nintendo DSs. That doesn't make any sense.

And, yes, price is 100% determined by supply and demand. There aren't any other factors at all. If it's not determined by supply and demand, then what determines it? Magic?

market competition? the amount of advertising? the profit margins a company uses? the amount of money going into R&D?

the are a LOT more factors than just the supply and demand numbers.

 

[freeman123]

way to counter my argument with actual points there.

maybe, just maybe our farmers actually get a half decent pay check for what they are doing, maybe they have (by law) right to at least a certain amount of money.

yes this might make our food a bit more expensive, but instead of making huge portions like in the US with a European price tag reflecting that, we make normal portions that have roughly the same price as an US portion.

that's the cultural difference.

and this doesn't make food any less available in Europe, what was your original point, just read back a bit. no, it just makes it relatively more expensive, but we can afford that.

Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Why would farmers continue to meet demand if they didn't feel they were getting a fair amount? Competition would ensure that they'd be paid the best. If one market is offering X amount for their product, a competing company would offer more.

 

[Deleted member]

you then also forget the competition between the farmers themselves.

farmer A could be fine with price X, while farmer B would be fine with a lower price of Y.

 

[freeman123]

Freeman, a) portion sizes are bigger in the US. This is a cultural difference, and b) I think you're really misunderstanding economics and you're trying to apply a few basic principles you've probably learned in a microecon course to something much more complex than that. Do you understand how agriculture works? What about gas prices?

The fact that portion sizes in America are huge is common knowledge.

If portions are larger then food must be cheaper in the US. If food is cheaper, then it's because we're doing a better job of meeting demand. Agriculture and gas work exactly the same way.

market competition? the amount of advertising? the profit margins a company uses? the amount of money going into R&D?

the are a LOT more factors than just the supply and demand numbers.

THOSE ARE ALL SUB-CATEGORIES OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND!!!

you then also forget the competition between the farmers themselves.

farmer A could be fine with price X, while farmer B would be fine with a lower price of Y.

Well then farmer A would have to either come down to farmer B's price or offer a better product than farmer B. That sort of competition is what makes food cheaper and better. Farmer A sells product M for X amount. Farmer B comes along and offers product M for the lower price of Y amount. Now Farmer A starts offering the superior product N so that he can still make X amount, but Farmer B starts offering product N also, but for Y amount. So now instead of having product M for X amount, we have the superior product N for the lower price of Y amount. Competition has created a superior product for a lower price.

Now that people can get product N for even less than what they used to get M for, demand for M has gone down. So M is even cheaper than Y amount. As competition creates newer and better products, prices of all products go down. All food becomes cheaper and better for everyone. This is how my country is able to do such a great job of meeting demand.

If it's true that farmers make more in your country(Not sure if they do, I'm just going by what you said), then it's likely because of lack of competition. Without competition there's no reason to lower prices. That's why America does a better job of meeting demand than the Netherlands, and that's why food is cheaper here.

 

[Deleted member]

they are not sub-categories of supply and demand, how is a companies decision to spend X on marketing instead of Y have anything to do with supply and demand?

farmers don't sell for amounts, they sell a certain amount for a certain price.
you also made typos with A's and B's in your "example".

both the US and the Netherlands meet their demands, and the dutch farmers, companies, or where ever the extra money goes, get more than their US counterparts.
if anything the Dutch are doing a better jobs because they manage to get more money for their stuff.

The fact that the customers here are willing to pay more is the cultural difference we've been talking about all the time.

 

[freeman123]

The Paprika Killer
they are not sub-categories of supply and demand, how is a companies decision to spend X on marketing instead of Y have anything to do with supply and demand?

Marketing creates demand. The more demand for your product, the more you're able to charge for it.

The Paprika Killer
farmers don't sell for amounts, they sell a certain amount for a certain price.
you also made typos with A's and B's in your "example".

both the US and the Netherlands meet their demands, and the dutch farmers, companies, or where ever the extra money goes, get more than their US counterparts.
if anything the Dutch are doing a better jobs because they manage to get more money for their stuff.

The fact that the customers here are willing to pay more is the cultural difference we've been talking about all the time.

I'm not going to bother explaining this to you again. You don't understand what you're talking about. I'm not saying that to sound condescending or rude. I'm saying it because I honestly don't know what else to say. I've tried to explain it to you and you don't seem to get it, so I give up.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Fun fact;
Everything is more expensive in Western Europe than in America

Fun fact;
We also make more on average than Americans. This makes sense. This is why you have more food for the same price. Also because America likes to eat, so the portions are bigger.

 

[Deleted member]

Marketing creates demand. The more demand for your product, the more you're able to charge for it.


I'm not going to bother explaining this to you again. You don't understand what you're talking about. I'm not saying that to sound condescending or rude. I'm saying it because I honestly don't know what else to say. I've tried to explain it to you and you don't seem to get it, so I give up.

Ehm no, marketing doesn't have to create more demand.
without competition there would be no marketing.

And then tell me what is actually wrong about what I said mister Economics PhD.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Well then farmer A would have to either come down to farmer B's price or offer a better product then farmer B. That sort of competition is what makes food cheaper and better.

Oh my god, most flawed logic I've seen so far.

When you try to make something for a lower price but still want the same profit, what do you do?
That's right, you spend less to make the product. What happens next? Quality goes down.

Herp.

 

[Luigitoilet]

guys, freeman is an idiot stop indulging him!

 

[freeman123]

Oh my god, most flawed logic I've seen so far.

When you try to make something for a lower price but still want the same profit, what do you do?
That's right, you spend less to make the product. What happens next? Quality goes down.

Herp.

No, that's not what happens. If I start a garbage company and I know I'm the only garbage company in town, then I can charge $30 a month for garbage pick up. It's not that I have to make that much, it's just that I know that I can because people have no other choices for garbage service. If a competing company comes in and starts offering to do it for $25 a month, I have to come down to around the same price or I'll go out of business. The only way I could possibly stay at $30 a month is if I'm offering a better service. If they're offering the exact same service as me, I'll have to lower my price. The quality of my service isn't going to go down, if anything it'll get better since I'll now have more incentive to keep my customers happy so they don't switch to my competitor.

 

[Deleted member]

freeman, you assume the garbage man is making more profit than he has to.

what if he already is at his bottom price? then he needs to drop something, eg quality, in order to compete with someone's lower price

 

[Deleted member]

This is stupid.
Parents try to blame everything on everything but themselves. Well, that's human nature for you.

McDonald's will win the lawsuit. Especially since they are suing McDonalds for what every fast-food chains do: toys in kid's meals.

Unless the toys are hazardous (see Burger King's Pokemon toy issue), then there isn't a problem.

 

[Jim Morrison]

No, that's not what happens. If I start a garbage company and I know I'm the only garbage company in town, then I can charge $30 a month for garbage pick up. It's not that I have to make that much, it's just that I know that I can because people have no other choices for garbage service. If a competing company comes in and starts offering to do it for $25 a month, I have to come down to around the same price or I'll go out of business. The only way I could possibly stay at $30 a month is if I'm offering a better service. If they're offering the exact same service as me, I'll have to lower my price. The quality of my service isn't going to go down, if anything it'll get better since I'll now have more incentive to keep my customers happy so they don't switch to my competitor.

Good thing service is nothing like goods, where you actually pay to produce a tangible product.

God you're an amazing troll, props to you

 

[freeman123]

freeman, you assume the garbage man is making more profit than he has to.

what if he already is at his bottom price? then he needs to drop something, eg quality, in order to compete with someone's lower price

If the garbage man is already providing the service for the lowest possible amount that it can be provided for, then how could a competing company offer the exact same service for a lower amount?

This/That guy
Good thing service is nothing like goods, where you actually pay to produce a tangible product.

Okay, fine... Pretend that instead of garbage service, I'm a painter who sells paintings. I charge $30 a painting. Another painter comes in and offers paintings that are just as good for $25. Now I either have to sell my paintings for $25 as well, or I have to make even better paintings so that I can still get $30. Either way, I'm not going to start making worse paintings, because now I have competition and so that would be completely stupid.

This/That guy
God you're an amazing troll, props to you

I'd love to know your definition of a troll, because half of your posts are just you giving little smart allic one liners that contribute absolutely nothing to the discussion, and yet I'm the troll?

 

[Deleted member]

how could a competing company offer the exact same service for a lower amount?

They either provide a worse service (only pickup one every two weeks instead of once a week), or they actually innovate, for example, use bigger trucks so each garbage man can service bigger areas.

 

[freeman123]

They either provide a worse service (only pickup one every two weeks instead of once a week), or they actually innovate, for example, use bigger trucks so each garbage man can service bigger areas.

Well, there you go... You just answered your own question. If they're providing a worse service, the other company doesn't have to lower its prices to compete with them. If they're providing an equal service for a lower price due to innovation, then the other company can innovate(or just copy them) to compete with them. It's not that difficult...

 

[Mr.Freeman]

Where the hell does discussion of Western European food portions and their prices come in on all of this?

This is about ****ing toys, people. Go debate in the Debate Hall.

 

[Deleted member]

except that garbage pickup is an extremely oversimplified service.

with actual technology, such as flat screen TV's you can't just copy what the other company does (even if you could you would get sued for doing so), not does anyone have to know that you are using cheaper components that come form china instead of A-brand.

 

[Today]

Just adding my 2 cents, but
I'm American here in America and our portion sizes are way too big. And yeah, that is a cultural difference.
American's Mcdonalds

Japan's.

Japan's burgers compared to America's are really small.
and America just loves to super-size everything.

America also believed in, "Finish eating everything off your plate." Which also is an issue.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Okay, fine... Pretend that instead of garbage service, I'm a painter who sells paintings. I charge $30 a painting. Another painter comes in and offers paintings that are just as good for $25. Now I either have to sell my paintings for $25 as well, or I have to make even better paintings so that I can still get $30. Either way, I'm not going to start making worse paintings, because now I have competition and so that would be completely stupid.


I'd love to know your definition of a troll, because half of your posts are just you giving little smart allic one liners that contribute absolutely nothing to the discussion, and yet I'm the troll?

Example is as bad as garbage man, because you buy art for being exclusive and expensive.

Also, you're troll for making us debate against terribly flawed logic and claims, while still making it believable.

 

[GreenFox]

This is so dumb, you have parents for a reason.

 

[Deleted member]

Today, your "japan" picture isn't loading.
but yeah that was the original point I was making when I entered this topic.

 

[freeman123]

Mr.Freeman
Where the hell does discussion of Western European food portions and their prices come in on all of this?

Paprika Killer brought it up as part of his bigoted argument against American culture.

The Paprika Killer
with actual technology, such as flat screen TV's you can't just copy what the other company does (even if you could you would get sued for doing so), not does anyone have to know that you are using cheaper components that come form china instead of A-brand.

IF THE TV IS JUST AS GOOD, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW IT WAS MADE. IF IT'S NOT JUST AS GOOD, PEOPLE WILL FIGURE IT OUT AND THE PRODUCT WILL FAIL.

Look, you don't know anything about economics. It's pointless to even try to explain this to you because you don't understand.

Toady
Just adding my 2 cents, but
I'm American here in America and our portion sizes are way too big. And yeah, that is a cultural difference.
American's Mcdonalds

Please explain to me how America is able to sell more food for the same price if America doesn't do a better job of meeting demand for food.

This/That guy
Example is as bad as garbage man, because you buy art for being exclusive and expensive.

It doesn't matter if I'm talking about paintings, or hats, or blowjobs... INSERT WHATEVER ARBITRARY EXAMPLE YOU WANT AND THE ANALOGY STILL WORKS!!!

This/That guy
Also, you're troll for making us debate against terribly flawed logic and claims, while still making it believable.

I'm not making you do anything, and my logic isn't flawed just because you aren't capable of comprehending it.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Okay, fine... Pretend that instead of garbage service, I'm a farmer who sells onions. I charge $30 an onion. Another farmer comes in and offers onions that are just as good for $25. Now I either have to sell my onions for $25 as well, or I have to make even better oinions so that I can still get $30. Either way, I'm not going to start making worse onions, because now I have competition and so that would be completely stupid.

No, that doesn't really work, how do you suggest you improve your onions?

 

[freeman123]

No, that doesn't really work, how do you suggest you improve your onions?

Maybe there isn't a way to make better onions. In that case I'd have to lower my prices.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Competition is a *****, it'll drive prices lower like that, because farmer Z will go below your price.

Eventually you reach a point where you can't lose anymore money and you spend less money on making quality products so you can still make the same profit.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Yeah, normally I wouldn't close topics because of a debate, but...

Not feeding idiots is almost as important as not feeding trolls, guys.

 

[Crimson King]

McD is totally fine offering toys. Is it aimed at kids? Yes, because kids eat. It's smart business, but the consumer has the right to not eat.