MBR Meta Knight Summary/Discussion

[Shaya]

Meta Knight

Here's a crapton of information.
Hope you enjoy reading it, critiquing it, perhaps even providing more information where you feel it is needed.
Roar potential activity.

Index:
1. Overview/Normal Play:
- Summaries
- MK's Style(s) of Play
- Marth's Style(s) of Play
- Positioning/Zoning
2. Killing Methods
; Needs a lot more information
- Marth's Killing
- MK's Killing
3. Recovery/Edge or Ledge Game
- Recovering as Marth
- Against MK's recovery
4. Moves
; Moves that may be seen as important in the match. Needs a lot more information.
- Counter (Marth)
- Shuttle Loop (MK)
5. Stages
; Very happy to have a lot more information come here
- Neutrals
- Others
- Brinstar

MBR Vote:
Order of Difficulty of all Matchups: 1st (+/- 0)
Similar difficulty: None (3/7) Dedede (3/7), Ice Climbers (2/7), Snake (1/7)
Ratio: 65:35 – 60:40 ?

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General Information

Summaries:

Alright, well, before I start I just want to say I really HATE this matchup, and Im sure most Marth's do as well so, its obviously not just me. This is one of the few matchups that I feel no matter how much a Marth main tries to learn, is going to have a difficult time with. The matchup ratio is roughly around 40:60, simply because its indeed winnable, but its no-where near even. It may even be 35:65.
Since your at a disadvantage from the start you naturally need to put more effort into winning. I learned the hard way that if you dont try fully against all Metaknights, dumb stuff happens, causing you to lose a stock, and be forced to face a campy MK for the rest of the game.
~ZMT

A lot of the MKs have been catching up in the vs. Marth metagame. I have yet to try camping a MK, and I usually just attack. The way I look at Marth, is that if you attack, you either guess right, or you don't. No character (except a set-up Diddy) has an option that beats all of your approaches.

TL;DR, Shuttle Loop is mad gay. Dashing up and shielding is mad good, but don't get grabbed, and don't spot dodge because ftilt ***** it. If you feel threatened roll away, and learn to juggle and edgeguard. Always be ready for tornado to counter it, even and especially when going for a follow-up.
~Pierce

and people make fun of me for getting super campy defensive against character like mk... read what pierce just wrote, its how i've been doing mk for months.
~Xisin

Meta Knight “Style”:

Anyways, hes [Seibrik] really campy and patient, how Marth vs MK should be.
Early on in Brawl I used to discuss MK vs Marth as a chasing game, MK would run away, camp, throw some tilts your way, retreat, and repeat.
In my experience vs Seibrik, he would camp from the start, and sit in hit shield mixing up tilts and up b oos. Most of the match is just characters poking at eachother until one hits, and decides to follow up.
~ZMT

MK can use forward roll to mess with us (Dojo pro). And us crossing over can be dangerous.
MK's use of tornado really can be extremely difficult for Marth to get around reliably at all; the risk/reward for most situations is stupid.
~Shaya

Unfortuanately, MKs have started using UpB in abundance, so I need to see how good SHADing works on them. And probably, camp more.
~Pierce

Marth “Style”

Walking is extremely effective obviously, and very annoying. Its about getting a lead early, and keeping a lead so the campyness of MK doesnt even come into play. If MK decides to camp you, and you are up a stock or 40-50%, just stand there and wait, you can pivot grab when he decides to approach.
Try to stay grounded as much as you can, pivot grab if he does approach, and watch carefully for kill opportunities.
~ZMT

Beating a turtling MK (ignoring Tornado) is Shield, Grab, DB and foxtrots. Hell this is a reliable way of beating aggressive ones too, but aggressive ones form holes Marth can often easily beat with aerials/db.
Dancing Blade from a non-run/dash outranges MK's dtilt/ftilt by a noticable margin (i.e. the big step forward).
MK's Ftilt will generally beat out fair, and any spot dodge. However fair is still very usable if you can space/time the jump or ff fair before the 3rd hit can come in.
Marth's dash to shield is 17 frames, and it's in our best interests to know that distance EXTREMELY well, the time to allow you a second foxtrot/pivot stuff is 14 frames IIRC. MK is generally forced to keep still during Marth's foxtrots, if he dashes he can't beat our range (MKs options being dash attack, dash grab, and sometimes you get some sh aerials, if he jumps and we're out of his range he is in a noticable disadvantage due to his aerial mobility and our ground moves outranging his aerials). With Fsmash, upsmash, utilt, uair having respectable horizontal/vertical range and reasonable speed, it can cover these whiffs fast and effectively whilst abusing the 'walk' for spacing. We can beat out any of MK's whiffs with fsmash, which is very risky for both of us.
Shield tactics with Marths 'slide' will beat out dtilt/ftilt, but if we mispace or get predicted they'll just grab us. We have grabbing him for 13%ish percent, and dolphin slash... Covering all of his immediate options, just varying amounts of risk.
~Shaya

The trick is to get him off the stage it can literalyl spell 50%+ damage to the mk with the proper use of defensive options, including... counter... if you watch any of my vids and stuff you see that I actually use counter much more than most marths, i like the move i guess.. and am generally good at connecting with it.
~Xisin

Positioning/Zoning:

There is the beginning of the match. Both players are at 0%, and MK is at an advantage slightly because he naturally has more options. This may force you to make the first move, whether it be dashing to a shield, a sh fair, or simply walking towards him, and pivotgrabbing back, just to see how he reacts to it.
~ZMT

IMO it's a very even "fight" at the max range of both characters; it's just all of MK options are less susceptible to punishment than Marths, but the rewards can very often far outweigh Meta Knights; especially towards centre stage, where the gimping factor is nearly nullified.
It's the fact that Marth has the power to move himself whilst MK can really only stay still (he can 'walk' to space himself better to get max range of dtilt/ftilt, but this is generally the OPTIMAL time for us to get him with fair) during this 'neutral' interaction that gives the match up hope.
~Shaya

When MK is in the air, he gets *****. He really cannot do anything. Basically, the whole match is, space and zone. Then once you hit MK, just hit him over and over ALWAYS ready to hit counter or Dolphin Slash if he Tornados. Randomly use shieldbreaker, as it still outranges his aerials, can be used to follow an airdodge if you charge it, and goes through tornado. Also, it's good for actually getting MK offstage because it's less stale than Fair and since it never has any of that stupid hitlag, it can't be DIed nearly as much.
~Pierce

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Killing

To Kill MK:

MK's dsmash is punishable oos with a down smash of your own (if your fast enough), dancing blade, or an up b oos. You can punish MK's tornado lag with a down smash, db, or a grab, which leads to a tipped fair, or dolphin slash. MK's up b is punishable with a usmash from below. I used to dolphin slash his glide attack (a while back) but I stopped due to how risky it is
~ZMT

Grab Release to sweet spot tippered dolphin slash at the ledge should be killing MK around the early 100s.
Utilt/dsmash/uair will be killing at around these percents too.
~Shaya


Getting Killed by MK:

MK's fsmash is the problem here, as its ridiculously lagless and has great knockback. When your at kill percent in danger of losing a stock, MK can zone on the ground with his fsmash, which is very effective. If you run in and shield, it pushes you away from him, and by the time you realize what happened, hes out of any lag. Its dumb.
~ZMT

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Getting back on stage/Recovering:

For Marth:

i want to say that the best way to recover when fighting an mk that's trying to gimp you is save your jump go really really low almost to the point of no return use your jump then the first part of DB to stall then DS to reach the ledge, i've notice that a chasing mk has a hard time punishing marth when he does that, and of course if he is drill rushing too the ledge and you're on it release the ledge to DS to push him further off then expect tornado if he's out of jumps
~HRNUT

if we're on the ledge and they're tornadoing above us... we really don't have anything...MK can just tornado above the ledge, sweeping us if we remain on the ledge past our invicibility frames, and being able to hit us through all our get up options (before we can even DO ANYTHING). It's stupid, but if we're on the ledge, MK gets free damage.

Recovering against MK is, as HRNUT says, avoiding the use of your second jump unless vital... Marth has a lot of vertical height on his recovery, but if you're too far down, you're out of your invincibility frames, and MK can use about 8 frames of invincibility to nair/dair you through the recovery. It's always best to DS just as you see the ledge drop, if you DS as they ledge drop you'll most likely get gimped.
MK's get up attack over 100% hits far behind him, and also sends us backwards, meaning he can abuse those invicibility frames and our linear recovery to keep us away from the ledge and then we're at a terrible position. M2K LOVES THIS.

Getting back onstage after dolphin slashing when the Meta Knight is spacing an fsmash is really complicated. Mixing up db1s and shieldbreakers is possible, but the timing required to avoid the fsmash which completely outdisjoints all of Marth's moves is painful.
~Shaya

For Meta Knight:

MK's will mostly likely recover with Tornado.
Like Shuttle Loop, Drill Rush, and even dimension cape can be nair'd/fair'd/invicibility frame bair'd or even dolphin slash'd through. But Tornado has too much versatility to move up/down/left/right and the only move we can reliably use to get through it is counter/dolphin slash. Whilst Marth attempting to edge guard an MK can be successful, their ability to just recover up above the stage (and) is quite troublesome.

Marth's fsmash in stopping MK getting back on stage can be -really- effective.
If you position yourself correctly (on battlefield, it's Marth's body on the 'circle' parts of the stage), an MK ledge jump is spaced perfectly for a tipper fsmash. His only options are air dodge/jump again from a ledge jump. I believe this is only above 100% damage though.. maybe it isn't.
~Shaya

MK cannot reliably recover against Marth until Marth makes a mistake. Now, granted, since MK has so many options, you will make a mistake, but I generally get tons of damage off edgeguarding. Typically, I find most MKs will first glide to the stage. If you jump at them, they WILL glide attack you, so counter. Or, if you're already at the ledge, try dropping low and Bairing. If they dive low early, footstool them.

After this, they will usually try to drill rush you off the edge, so counter this from the edge. Also, if you have good tech skill, you can do a turn around VERTICAL-[Dolphin Slash] to hit them and land back on the stage. This may net an early K.O. if the MK is around 90 and Dolphin Slash is fresh, because it's trick to DI if you're aiming drill rush. Most times, just counter though.

From there, MK is most likely to try Shuttle Looping or Tornadoing. Here's where it gets tricky. You want to hit the MK before the SH to force him to waste his jumps, because it makes SL much less versitile, but they might Tornado. It's easy to tell which they are going to do. Tornado if high, SL if low. If they are flying high and horizontal with the stage, they are going attempt to bypass you with Tornado. I keep forgetting to check if an edgehop Bair will beat it if you're still invincible, but I just ledge-jump (not hop) and wait. If they tornado and try and go through you, just counter. Obviously, the MK COULD just go for the edge, but after you've defended from the edge twice, TRUST ME, they are going to try for the stage.

From here, still has endless options, but it gets harder to predict what they'll do less. For some reason, MKs are more predictable when they have an abundance of recovery resources than when they have less.

From the stage, just wait at about roll range. Hit anything he does, and counter stuff you can't hit. Fsmash is unreliably slow, so just counter. Shieldbreaker is good to just through out before MK does anything, in case you think he's about to do anything.
~Pierce

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Moves:

Counter:
As said in other sections, counter is exceptional in covering things that Marth's moveset otherwise is not capable of doing. Such as beating Tornado or drill rush reliably. “I think we really need to explore the uses of counter in this MU more. When coupled with pivot grab, it's hard for us to get grabbed or get hit. Wobuffet syndrome ”-Pierce

Shuttle Loop:
MK's with knowledge of the match up have started to rely heavily on shield 'camping' and baiting resulting in an over use of Shuttle Loop punishing many of our attempts to pressure and zone.

SHAD a SL happy mk will work... but only limited amount of times, as its only a matter of time til they call it and answer you with f tilt or dsmash... or worse a stutter back step fsmash which hurts.
~Xisin

Using fast fall near to/tipper nair/fair on MK's shield into a dtilt (jab prob better) can cover mk's dtilt/ftilt/dsmash option.
But it loses directly to shuttle loop.
The mix up of this + fast fall into dolphin slash is risky, but -works- as a mix up, or at least where there is a platform above you.

I find that if I'm fast falling aerials properly, I generally always get the perfect shield; UNLESS they did the up b before I hit their shield - which can be mighty risky as their invicibility only starts from 5 (i've scored tipper nair kills because of this 'bait trick'). Shuttle Loop hits on frame 8, Marth's landing lag on aerials is 8. If he tippers the hit its -break even-, if he doesnt tipper he'll always be able to shield before a Shuttle Loop comes out. Unless they perfect shield or you weren't fast falling.
~Shaya

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Stages:

Neutrals:

I just take MKs to Lylat, FD, or Battlefield. Smashville is mad gay. Yoshi's is meh. I always strike those two, and then use the one that my opponent didn't ban as my CP.
~Pierce

Others:
my favorite place vs mk is actually castle siege, as I've been planked one too many times in this MU and CS is plank proof. (ledge camping planking.) as the stage transforms and forces no ledge areas for set periods of time. i.e in between transforms and on the 2nd part.... hell the 2nd part nets an easy grab release ko if played correctly.
~Xisin

About Brinstar:
The main things are
1. 'Many bubble part of the stage' allows you to dolphin slash through just about every multi hit move, due to the extended hitlag for the opponent (fair, ftilt, multiple dtilt spam is lols)
2. Fsmash hits everywhere and forever (on the 'block parts of the stage, tippers will make the fsmash last well over half a second)
3. Slanted parts for fast fall 'slides'/pseudo-wavedashes into dbs, dtilts, etc
4. Platforms hanging above ledges allow Marth to drop and dolphin slash for ****-esque shuttle loop-style "DOLPHIN LOOPING" (similar to Delfino Plaza) through recoveries.
5. Good spacing of tippers on 'hittable' parts of the stage give humongously long hitboxes times, overcoming any/all spotdodges and rolls when used effectively (fsmash on the middle part can last up to like... a second and a half)
~Shaya

A) Almost any character can platform camp there. Hell, even Ganon. Options to go Up, Forward and DOWN make it really great.

B) Acid is supremely neutralizing. If your opponent gets hit by acid, please FOOTSTOOL them on the way up (practice makes perfect). This can be done multiple times in a row by all characters, and deals massive damage, but is useful for Marth because he has good mobility and can control the stage well.

Tilts are super useful here. They cover interesting areas.
~Pierce

Can Marth reliably win here?

I doubt that he can, that stage is built for both characters, since mk is basically a rip off of marth with better, faster, safer, more range and priority moves, i don't believe it gives marth any type of advantage there, instead i'd say that its flat based on the players and the level of play from there, which comes down to me saying that the match up ratio isn't shifted in closer to even there

so...basically i think it doesn't hurt marth its just that mk is still mk, i personally think fd or bf is a better stage vs him, but i'm hating bf more and more cuz its hard to punish somethings cuz of platforms which marth usually uses to his advantage
~HRNUT

One thing I like about Brinstar vs MK is that the lava can help Marth not get gimped as easily. MK isnt really helped much by this as his recovery is amazing.
~ZMT

I ponder whether Marth can reliably go under the stage with Dolphin Slash to beat out MK hitlag whilst using tornado above the ledge.
~Shaya

MK's take me to Brinstar, but they just camp, which doesn't work against Marth on that stage, because you can't use SL the same way and Marth ***** Dair with Uair. MK probably has a distinct advantage when he breaks the stage though, which he could probably do safely with a well placed tornado. Understage pokes and tornado retreats are probably mad gay, but I dunno. I practice that stage from time to time, but only the really campy MKs take me there, and I **** camping.
~Pierce

 

[feardragon64]

Holy crap, you guys are doing something

 

[Palpi]

I rarely fight on Castle Siege's second part. I just air-plank (as MK) Castle Siege is my ban

 

[hippiedude92]

Your amazing Shaya.

10amazings.

 

[Lord Chair]

(fsmash on the middle part can last up to like... a second and a half)

Oh really.

Honestly, a second and a half is kinda too much.

Brinstar vs a good MK is meh, you can give extended hit duration as a reason to pick it but it's really not that good. On a side note about extended hurtboxes, if you space it well on the right side of the stage you can tipper both the hit in front and the hit on the back of Marth's dsmash. Just saying

 

[∫unk]

Mk can safely recover vs marth every time... Unless you're counting the ledge trap too

just like recoveing low with marth is overall your safest recovery (while you have your jump), I have yet to be punished for gliding low, doing rising u airs to the ledge with the option to shuttle loop any time (in terms of hitbox coverage... There's other things like dimensional cape)

even if you make a beast prediction and grab the ledge right before I shuttle loop if I'm not a noob I'm just going to glide to the other side

marths ledge trap vs mk isn't even that great imo cause of tornado and his multiple jumps

being grounded and db can not be stressed enough... It's so important in this matchup

brinstar is horrible you're off the stage or in the air more where you lose... Marth has tricks and can get lucky but so can mk on that stage

castle siege is a much smarter pick or a neutral

 

[P. O. F.]

Good read.

I liked.

 

[Albert.]

how much easier would this match-up be if MK had a crappy dash-grab?

xD


good stuff though, I guess. <3 Marth

 

[Shaya]

I've outright dair'd MK's trying to come up from below with uairs/wasting jumps.
If I've got invincibility frames and they're doing that, you can just drop down using your invincibility and footstool them, wasting even more of their jumps.

Still, MK recovering is boss.
Why did you never actually discuss this in the MBR Junk?

 

[∫unk]

To be honest I just completely forgot about the MBR since I only use the User Control Panel here... my bad.

I'll start checking it.

Yeah the odds of you getting gimped vs the odds of d-air happening at that position is not good for Marth. That one time when I db1'd b-air'd pivot shieldbreaker'd then tech'd the shuttle loop so I could recover was tight but it's not something worth mentioning.

(that actually didn't happen)

 

[P. O. F.]

Dancing Blade, counter, and upB are my savior in this match up.

 

[Shaya]

Lets bump this thing.
Hopefully people will bring up what information is still relevant or not.

Its coming close to it being 6 months old. Oh and Im wary that many people did not even get to see this.

This somewhat shows what I hope the scout/scribe situation works out. Someones out there finding good information and categorising it for a central post/topic.

 

[Blacknight99923]

This match up i feel 6-4 or 55-45 MK
I find due to range similarites we often find our tips a lot more here and end up racking damage faster.
Marths stall helps with recovery although thats where we have issues

I find a sparing counter also usful here

If you Feel you won't get punished F smash will likely tip here which kills MK early as well.

As much as i have to strugle i this MU its one of my favs

we need Mike to post in here

 

[Megavitamins]

Marth and MK don't have similar ranges, marth wins in that respect

 

[Player-3]

marth beats mk on rainbow cruise as long as you camp him from the boat crash until after the pendulum

 

[Blacknight99923]

edit Marth beats Mks range but its close

 

[Saki-]

This match up i feel 6-4 or 55-45 MK
I find due to range similarites we often find our tips a lot more here and end up racking damage faster.
Marths stall helps with recovery although thats where we have issues

I find a sparing counter also usful here

If you Feel you won't get punished F smash will likely tip here which kills MK early as well.

As much as i have to strugle i this MU its one of my favs

we need Mike to post in here

Just lacking a tad of information

I'm going to disagree with your stalling statement. This is one of the easiest way to get me killed when playing against my brother's Meta. One stalled dancing blade means, fast fall dair. Having that I usually have a jump available the odds of me getting back on the edge is still possible, but not very favorable.

So like stated, if you're going to recover don't do it low, avoid stalls, just get on the ledge as quickly and as efficiently as you can.

 

[Blacknight99923]

Just lacking a tad of information

I'm going to disagree with your stalling statement. This is one of the easiest way to get me killed when playing against my brother's Meta. One stalled dancing blade means, fast fall dair. Having that I usually have a jump available the odds of me getting back on the edge is still possible, but not very favorable.

So like stated, if you're going to recover don't do it low, avoid stalls, just get on the ledge as quickly and as efficiently as you can.

I only stall when he can't otherwise punish me and i know he is trying to ledgehog

As much as your point is valid there are times where if you don't stall you will Die and its best to consider all options.

Yes If they are already on the ledge don't stall since you will eat a dair however if you believe they are going to the ledge then i believe stalling is a good option


I mean it DID save me a few stocks when I was playing tyrant in friendlies when he tried to edge hog me

 

[∫unk]

I mean it DID save me a few stocks when I was playing tyrant in friendlies when he tried to edge hog me

Where'd you play Tyrant? Is blacknight your real tag?

 

[Remzi]

he usually goes by FESoren

 

[Blacknight99923]

^

FeSoren actually is my tag, this account name is essentially my email

AKTSU is my name during a match although somtimes i go Soren

I played friendlies with tyrant at BR program act 1

 

[Yunior597]

What about counter picks? i need to know the ***** to **** marth...

 

[Honor]

i like to take MK to Castle Seige and i like the second of the 3 phases

 

[iamjason8]

@ Honor
No, you do it because its a Fire Emblem stage. Home territory..

Anyway good stuff Shaya. Fantastic and helpful read!

I'm always hoping that one day, the ration becomes 45:55 one day making Marth a viable MK counter lol. He does have some adequate tools making experienced Marths almost always, if not always beat non-uber Meta Knights.

Ah well, can't win everything.

 

[B.A.M.]

This matchup is possible for Marth. The other day at a little smashfest we had with Tyrant, DSF, and M2K, I saw Tyrants marth trash M2k's MK. DSF actually was owning with his marth too for a bit till he SD'ed like twice at like 20%. This matchup is one of execution. Counter is great; edgeguarding MK is something EVERY MARTH should be doing, for as Pierce said ultimately Marth has answers to all his options. So seriously spar with a MK and learn this please, this is so beneficial in this match up.

Grab-releases: Perfect them. Seriously. Whenever I see Mike play or Tyrant play an MK it always comes down to them having those down. Especially the Grab-release< Dair. On stage it gives a tech chase, and obviously if you get them with it offstage over 50% its GG. The thing is that getting that chance to GR< Dair comes up alot more than people would think and i think Marths not perfecting such things is seriously detrimental to their game. Ive also have seen Mike and Tyrant ( heck even i do it at times) do GR< Nair which owns quite a bit to and sets up for follow ups. Know ur stupid stuff like GR< Dash Dance Pivot Fsmash which beats every option a meta could use to get outta GR sans AD.Or utilizing SHADing in response to Shuttle Loop OoS. Shaya's got it with properly spaced ff aerial being safe enough on block vs Shuttle Loop OoS. Pierce is correct again in stating that everyone should be ready to punish Nado while going for a follow up. If you arent close enough to where your follow up will beat Nado's 10 frame start up then you should be ready prepared for punishing a possible Nado. This goes for every character in the game.

of course as they said basically any cool down can be punished with an assortment of Marths moves, so playing reactively can get you some nice punishments via DB, Dsmash, etc.

Again counter is freakin great in this match up, as well as Dash shield and of course DB (especially due to its quickness/range). But seriously you should be able to do all the Grab Release consistently. They get MK offstage, they can kill MK after 50%. They set up more follow ups, and make up some of your safest kills in the match up

 

[jbandrew]

These are all tips I made for myself based on a reactionary marth. Please let me know if there are any corrections to be made or if I'm completely wrong in any of these tips.

Marth vs MK

* In this matchup spacing (staying just outside your opponents range/keeping them away from Marth himself) is key. There should always be a sword between you and your opponent.

* All of this information is assuming that you react RIGHT when the MK chooses an option. i.e: as SOON as you see MK run up roll behind you, you instantly punish with Dancing blade on reaction; not a second later, not a second sooner.

Marth's options when just outside MK's range: (this is where every marth should be)

-If MK runs up to try to grab you, you can react and grab him first.

-If MK approaches you with nado, you have enough time to either Counter, UpB, or just sheild it.

-If MK tries to run up Fair, you can sheild it and punish with Dancing Blade.

-If MK walks up a bit and tries to bait you, you can stay in the same spot and Dtilt to pressure him/force him to react.

-If MK runs up and rolls behind you, you can Dancing Blade on reaction. (Try to train yourself to punish rolling MK's, alot of them use it as a desperate attempt to get in or as a mixup)

Marth's options when MK is in the air;

-If MK is in the air (i.e dair camping), try to follow him by walking and keep the positional advantage (right outside his longest aerial move). Eventually he'll have to land and his options are either to airdodge back to the ground, land with an attack, or nado on landing. All of these options are covered by sheilding.

-If MK airdodges back to the ground, you should be able to run up sheild grab him.



Notes:

-If your sheild is low for whatever reason and MK charges at you with a nado, its best to just attempt to counter it, Up B it, or just evade it since it has a high chance of sheild poking.

-If a MK Dtilt's your sheild, try a pivot grab after the first hit. Most MK's will try more Dtilt's or a grab and pivot grab beats those options.

-UpB/Counter/Dancing Blade/Fsmash can all beat nado if timed correctly.

 

[Pierce7d]

If your shield is getting pressured, you'd rather eat a Dtilt, or SDI an Ftilt instead of getting grabbed, so if you don't know what to do, attempt a jump back Fair

Retreating Usmash is oddly effective against Nado.

Using Shieldbreaker as a follow-up is effective if you think MK will try and stuff your follow-up with Nado.