Matchup Rediscussion: ROB
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Quotes:
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_Zelda vs R.O.B
- What to know about this matchup...
- Rob's tilts outspeed and outprioritise all of Zelda's ground options. In this sense Rob players can 'tilt' camp Zelda and fight up close at their optimal range where they will always be able to get the first hit. Zelda's Dtilt and Dsmash are fast, but not ranged enough to contend back. Rob will be trying to push Zelda out nearer to the ledge where he will gain a significant advantage. Jab is a very useful move at countering some of Rob's tilt pressure.
- Predict and powershield his tilt game. Dtilts, Dsmashes and Jabs are options to consider, but powershielding into a followup can ease the pressure immensely. Though his tilts are beyond human reaction time, you can often powershield unintentionally, or do so with good prediction.
- Get behind Rob with autocancelled Nair. He can't Bair OoS fast enough to counter this. Lead the Nair into further pressure - dtilt/usmash poke his shield as a potential followup. So long as you can get behind him, you can start to reverse the pressure onto him.
- He has a good projectile camp game. With lasers and a charge-up gyro, he can place significant harassment on Zelda from afar and conventionally projectile camp her. Lasers show an early warning sign before they are fired by a slight freeze in Rob's movements, and the gyro can be reflected back on reaction. Nayru's is not abusable and can be baited. The better option is to train yourself to powershield.
- Take and hold onto the gyro. Taking hold of the gyro limits his projectile camp game and gives you glide toss opportunities. You can harass back with Din's Fire as a mixup, and you can space Fsmash whilst having the gyro in your hand. Glide toss options include following up the thrown gyro with Dsmash, Dtilt or Usmash.
- Charging his gyro offstage is an abusable situation. Get beneath him. He can only shoot the gyro or airdodge in this situation - he has no other defence. This is a prime position to setup for a uair kill.
- Dsmash is one of Rob's 'panic' moves. Zelda can abuse this however. Try to bait Rob into Dsmashing your shield, in which it is a free Bair OoS or a setup into Fair OoS. As a killer and damage builder, this is a decent trick to bag.
- Get him into the air with whatever means necessary and keep him there. Rob particularly doesn't like the air due to a blindspot beneath him, and due to generally slow aerials as defences from below and behind him. Coupled with slower aerial movement, you can abuse this with Nairs and can bait airdodges into further Usmashes or snipe with Uair. When throwing him, use Uthrow.
- Beware of Rob's most reliable killers - Nair, Fsmash and Bair. Rob can have difficulty in killing if he has trouble landing these moves - learn the range and timing of these killers to avoid them. They are generally slow kill options that can be reacted to. His Usmash and Dair can also kill, but have more situational applications due to how narrow the hitboxes are - he'll have to be directly below or above you respectively to use these situational killers.
- He is a big target for LKs and can be sweetspotted from a dtilt trip. If a trip ever lands on Rob simply buffer a turnaround by tapping the opposite direction she is facing, then SH bair. His bodysize on trip allows it to connect and sweetspot. Other than, Rob can Bair'd and Fair'd OoS dependant on shield pushback.
- His edgecamp game is limited on Zelda. If he goes to edgecamp - space youself far enough from the edge and use Din's Fire to apply pressure. Due to the nature of his slow aerials and camp game, he will either ledgehop to airdodge or simply get up on the ledge. This is an opportunity to set up into a move such as Usmash or Utilt and punish accordingly.
- Useful Information...
- Try not to get grabbed. All of his throws place the opponent in a position to be followed up on by another attack - he will try to get you offstage where he excels with Fair pressure.
- Rob can gimp Zelda using a wall of Fairs on the startup of her recovery. The startup of Farore's give Rob ample time to harass to with Fairs and possibly stronger aerials. Fair can knock Zelda far enough out so that she is now placed in a much trickier position and can be possibly edgehogged. Try not to hang around offstage for too long.
Quotes:
*flies in at the mention of ROB vs Zelda* I know this match-up like it were my laptop desktop (it's 100% black, so it's not hard to pick apart. XP). @_@
Alright, I did a write up on this forever ago so I'm gonna read through it and edit anything that I think is false now days. Other than that, I'm gonna super lurk this thread and point out anything I see that's wrong or needs to be expanded more upon. <.<
Okay..I found my "Write Up" and it's..not as much as I remembered. XD
Was literally a link to a video of me vs Mocha and me saying "Do this." Sadly, the video isn't up any more so I can't link to it.
Basically, the big idea is, we camp you. Not conventional camping though. ROB's tilts out speed and out disjoint every ground option Zelda has (yes, I know how fast your DTilt and DSmash are, I'll cover jab a bit later), so we camp at FTilt range and if you try to do anything, we tilt you. That's our best option and if we can pressure you back against a ledge, we're at a serious advantage.
So as a Zelda, what you want to do is just stay close to ROB. Use your jab, and if you absolutely have to go aerial, auto canceled NAir landing behind ROB is an awesome idea. Your NAir and Jab are awesome in this. Your Jab is fast enough and disjointed enough to contend with ROB's titles, but if you hit us, we're either spaced wrong, timed something wrong, or we're going to trade.
Try to get ROB into the air, bait the airdodge, and keep us in the air. If you can bait a low airdodge, auto canceled NAir > USmash is great. It'll rack up damage -and- get us back in the air.
USmash is awesome for pressuring ROB in his shield, you can get in on us fast, it last forever (spotdodge eater, yay), and it will shield poke us if our shield is a bit depleted and we don't angle it. There's also enough frames between the end of the hitlag on some parts of the USmash that we can accidentally buffer a roll while tilting our shield and it'll eff us because the next hit will come out before we gain invincibility.
That's all that really comes to mind right now. If I think up more, or see something I want to comment on, you can expect me to. Lurking this thread hardcore. :o
Uhhh... Hey guys!! Long time, no see!!
Ahh this fight... My favorite of all of Zelda's high tier matchups. ROB's tricky. He really needs to camp and space very well in order to solidly win this fight. When Zelda's on the ground next to him, he'll start to swing F-tilts and Jab against her shield if she indeed does that. Best thing to do here is what Sudai mentioned before, try to get close enough to where you can powershield those attacks and either Jab, D-smash, or D-tilt. Those attacks should get him off of her back in that situation. A nicely timed F-smash is good here also, but it needs to be precise.
Back in the day I remember ROB's like to D-smash. If Zelda's shields that attack and her back is facing him, it's a free B-air out of shield. That's a free 20 damage, definitely use that towards her advantage.
If she ever gets a grab opportunity, use U-throw. ROB doesn't have very many options in the air above Zelda except for airdodging and N-air. She can either N-air or U-air through the lag on both of these. Granted Zelda doesn't want to be above ROB either because he can do just as much to her as she can to him with N-air, U-air, etc.
When he goes to the ledge for edgecamping, space yourself far away enough from the edge and use Din's Fire to force him off. Usually he'll get-up attack or just ledgehop an airdodge. You can punish with U-smash, U-tilt, or other moves accordingly.
TAKE HIS GYRO!!! IT'S SUCH A GOOD THING WORKING FOR YOU IN THIS MATCH!!! Granted he'll try to bait you with lasers and tilts to get you to use Nayru's Love.
Don't follow him off stage very often. Though if he's charging his gyro while coming back to the stage, try to get underneath him. He can only airdodge or shoot the gyro, so use U-air to get that free hit in if possible.
Try not to get grabbed in this fight. ROB's got a lot going for him with all of his throws and even his grab release. You'll most likely end up off-stage though, and his main killing move in this fight is F-smash since Zelda's a light character. She can ledgehop N-air to get back on the stage, but watch if the ROB spaces accordingly. He edgegaurds best in this match. He's also able to gimp Zelda, so being offstage for too long is definitely not a good thing in this match.
Never land in front of him. He'll either grab you, F-tilt you, D-tilt you, or F-smash you. If your end the air, try to land behind him with an auto-canceled N-air. Like Sudai said, he can't punish accordingly, not even with D-smash.
Other than that, I think that's it...
<3 Sudai
=]
Double B-airs can pshyce a person out. Keep that as a possible option.
55 : 45 ROB's favor is what I come to.
Take him to Battlefield and it's 50 : 50 imo.
40-60
Rob camps to hard and swings too fast. Seems like the only reason why Zelda players think the matchup is neutralish is because ROB is easy to kick. In fact, most Zelda players think that Zelda goes even with or beats every single fat character in the game, simply because "they're easy to kick."
Same thing with DK and Dedede. That's not 50-50 and 60-40, no way. (but that's for another time and place)
I disagree with the first part... If you don't see a laser coming at you should not be reflecting anything. Nayru's is not so slow that you can't reflect on reaction time.What MrEh said.
He beats Zelda close-range, beats Zelda in the air, his fair can **** her recovery so hard, he juggles Zelda fairly well, and he can camp Zelda whether you want to believe it or not. He also has a decent plank game -- and no, Din's stage spikes aren't gonna save you. The only safe position against ROB is underneath him, but ROB has no need to go in the air against Zelda when his ground game > ours.
As for the "easy to reflect" shenanigans: ROB has two projectiles, people. Naryu's is slow enough that he can fake-out laser, you NL, and he waits a split-second before he throws his Gyro so that it hits you in NL's massive cooldown lag. A smart ROB will figure this out after like.... 2 tries.
Or he can vice versa: throw a weak Gyro (so when you NL, it won't reflect all the way back to him), then laser you in your cooldown.
Or you can just go with shielding, but then you still have to approach at some point. Good luck with that.
No offense, but I get the same impression as MrEh -- on the fat character = easier thing. The only character that theory really applies for is Bowser, but he's a doodoo character. ROB is not.
I agree with 40:60.
When he throws a gyro catching it is sometimes the better option to reflection. This way you can either plan something with it (glide toss etc). Or simply hold on to it so you know that if he tries to camp that it is only a laser to worry about.
In the end I don't mind anything in between 40-60 and 50-50 though. His speed and range make this tough...
Really, against a good Zelda (hell, any good player) I don't expect to get much damage from my projectiles. They're just tools to harass and edge guard. I'd recommend power shielding projectiles and just ignoring NL completely unless you're already in the air or using it as an OoS option.