Matchup Rediscussion: Zelda vs ROB

[Kataefi]

Matchup Rediscussion: ROB
(back to the matchup directory)

Zelda vs R.O.B


- What to know about this matchup...
​

• Rob's tilts outspeed and outprioritise all of Zelda's ground options. In this sense Rob players can 'tilt' camp Zelda and fight up close at their optimal range where they will always be able to get the first hit. Zelda's Dtilt and Dsmash are fast, but not ranged enough to contend back. Rob will be trying to push Zelda out nearer to the ledge where he will gain a significant advantage. Jab is a very useful move at countering some of Rob's tilt pressure.

• Predict and powershield his tilt game. Dtilts, Dsmashes and Jabs are options to consider, but powershielding into a followup can ease the pressure immensely. Though his tilts are beyond human reaction time, you can often powershield unintentionally, or do so with good prediction.
  

• Get behind Rob with autocancelled Nair. He can't Bair OoS fast enough to counter this. Lead the Nair into further pressure - dtilt/usmash poke his shield as a potential followup. So long as you can get behind him, you can start to reverse the pressure onto him.
  

• He has a good projectile camp game. With lasers and a charge-up gyro, he can place significant harassment on Zelda from afar and conventionally projectile camp her. Lasers show an early warning sign before they are fired by a slight freeze in Rob's movements, and the gyro can be reflected back on reaction. Nayru's is not abusable and can be baited. The better option is to train yourself to powershield.
  

• Take and hold onto the gyro. Taking hold of the gyro limits his projectile camp game and gives you glide toss opportunities. You can harass back with Din's Fire as a mixup, and you can space Fsmash whilst having the gyro in your hand. Glide toss options include following up the thrown gyro with Dsmash, Dtilt or Usmash.
  

• Charging his gyro offstage is an abusable situation. Get beneath him. He can only shoot the gyro or airdodge in this situation - he has no other defence. This is a prime position to setup for a uair kill.
  

• Dsmash is one of Rob's 'panic' moves. Zelda can abuse this however. Try to bait Rob into Dsmashing your shield, in which it is a free Bair OoS or a setup into Fair OoS. As a killer and damage builder, this is a decent trick to bag.
  

• Get him into the air with whatever means necessary and keep him there. Rob particularly doesn't like the air due to a blindspot beneath him, and due to generally slow aerials as defences from below and behind him. Coupled with slower aerial movement, you can abuse this with Nairs and can bait airdodges into further Usmashes or snipe with Uair. When throwing him, use Uthrow.

• Beware of Rob's most reliable killers - Nair, Fsmash and Bair. Rob can have difficulty in killing if he has trouble landing these moves - learn the range and timing of these killers to avoid them. They are generally slow kill options that can be reacted to. His Usmash and Dair can also kill, but have more situational applications due to how narrow the hitboxes are - he'll have to be directly below or above you respectively to use these situational killers.
  

• He is a big target for LKs and can be sweetspotted from a dtilt trip. If a trip ever lands on Rob simply buffer a turnaround by tapping the opposite direction she is facing, then SH bair. His bodysize on trip allows it to connect and sweetspot. Other than, Rob can Bair'd and Fair'd OoS dependant on shield pushback.
  

• His edgecamp game is limited on Zelda. If he goes to edgecamp - space youself far enough from the edge and use Din's Fire to apply pressure. Due to the nature of his slow aerials and camp game, he will either ledgehop to airdodge or simply get up on the ledge. This is an opportunity to set up into a move such as Usmash or Utilt and punish accordingly.
  

- Useful Information...
​

• Try not to get grabbed. All of his throws place the opponent in a position to be followed up on by another attack - he will try to get you offstage where he excels with Fair pressure.

• Rob can gimp Zelda using a wall of Fairs on the startup of her recovery. The startup of Farore's give Rob ample time to harass to with Fairs and possibly stronger aerials. Fair can knock Zelda far enough out so that she is now placed in a much trickier position and can be possibly edgehogged. Try not to hang around offstage for too long.
  

_

Quotes:

*flies in at the mention of ROB vs Zelda* I know this match-up like it were my laptop desktop (it's 100% black, so it's not hard to pick apart. XP). @_@

Alright, I did a write up on this forever ago so I'm gonna read through it and edit anything that I think is false now days. Other than that, I'm gonna super lurk this thread and point out anything I see that's wrong or needs to be expanded more upon. <.<

Okay..I found my "Write Up" and it's..not as much as I remembered. XD

Was literally a link to a video of me vs Mocha and me saying "Do this." Sadly, the video isn't up any more so I can't link to it.

Basically, the big idea is, we camp you. Not conventional camping though. ROB's tilts out speed and out disjoint every ground option Zelda has (yes, I know how fast your DTilt and DSmash are, I'll cover jab a bit later), so we camp at FTilt range and if you try to do anything, we tilt you. That's our best option and if we can pressure you back against a ledge, we're at a serious advantage.

So as a Zelda, what you want to do is just stay close to ROB. Use your jab, and if you absolutely have to go aerial, auto canceled NAir landing behind ROB is an awesome idea. Your NAir and Jab are awesome in this. Your Jab is fast enough and disjointed enough to contend with ROB's titles, but if you hit us, we're either spaced wrong, timed something wrong, or we're going to trade.

Try to get ROB into the air, bait the airdodge, and keep us in the air. If you can bait a low airdodge, auto canceled NAir > USmash is great. It'll rack up damage -and- get us back in the air.

USmash is awesome for pressuring ROB in his shield, you can get in on us fast, it last forever (spotdodge eater, yay), and it will shield poke us if our shield is a bit depleted and we don't angle it. There's also enough frames between the end of the hitlag on some parts of the USmash that we can accidentally buffer a roll while tilting our shield and it'll eff us because the next hit will come out before we gain invincibility.

That's all that really comes to mind right now. If I think up more, or see something I want to comment on, you can expect me to. Lurking this thread hardcore. :o

Uhhh... Hey guys!! Long time, no see!!

Ahh this fight... My favorite of all of Zelda's high tier matchups. ROB's tricky. He really needs to camp and space very well in order to solidly win this fight. When Zelda's on the ground next to him, he'll start to swing F-tilts and Jab against her shield if she indeed does that. Best thing to do here is what Sudai mentioned before, try to get close enough to where you can powershield those attacks and either Jab, D-smash, or D-tilt. Those attacks should get him off of her back in that situation. A nicely timed F-smash is good here also, but it needs to be precise.

Back in the day I remember ROB's like to D-smash. If Zelda's shields that attack and her back is facing him, it's a free B-air out of shield. That's a free 20 damage, definitely use that towards her advantage.

If she ever gets a grab opportunity, use U-throw. ROB doesn't have very many options in the air above Zelda except for airdodging and N-air. She can either N-air or U-air through the lag on both of these. Granted Zelda doesn't want to be above ROB either because he can do just as much to her as she can to him with N-air, U-air, etc.

When he goes to the ledge for edgecamping, space yourself far away enough from the edge and use Din's Fire to force him off. Usually he'll get-up attack or just ledgehop an airdodge. You can punish with U-smash, U-tilt, or other moves accordingly.

TAKE HIS GYRO!!! IT'S SUCH A GOOD THING WORKING FOR YOU IN THIS MATCH!!! Granted he'll try to bait you with lasers and tilts to get you to use Nayru's Love.

Don't follow him off stage very often. Though if he's charging his gyro while coming back to the stage, try to get underneath him. He can only airdodge or shoot the gyro, so use U-air to get that free hit in if possible.

Try not to get grabbed in this fight. ROB's got a lot going for him with all of his throws and even his grab release. You'll most likely end up off-stage though, and his main killing move in this fight is F-smash since Zelda's a light character. She can ledgehop N-air to get back on the stage, but watch if the ROB spaces accordingly. He edgegaurds best in this match. He's also able to gimp Zelda, so being offstage for too long is definitely not a good thing in this match.

Never land in front of him. He'll either grab you, F-tilt you, D-tilt you, or F-smash you. If your end the air, try to land behind him with an auto-canceled N-air. Like Sudai said, he can't punish accordingly, not even with D-smash.

Other than that, I think that's it...

<3 Sudai

=]

Double B-airs can pshyce a person out. Keep that as a possible option.

55 : 45 ROB's favor is what I come to.

Take him to Battlefield and it's 50 : 50 imo.

40-60

Rob camps to hard and swings too fast. Seems like the only reason why Zelda players think the matchup is neutralish is because ROB is easy to kick. In fact, most Zelda players think that Zelda goes even with or beats every single fat character in the game, simply because "they're easy to kick."

Same thing with DK and Dedede. That's not 50-50 and 60-40, no way. (but that's for another time and place)

What MrEh said.

He beats Zelda close-range, beats Zelda in the air, his fair can **** her recovery so hard, he juggles Zelda fairly well, and he can camp Zelda whether you want to believe it or not. He also has a decent plank game -- and no, Din's stage spikes aren't gonna save you. The only safe position against ROB is underneath him, but ROB has no need to go in the air against Zelda when his ground game > ours.

As for the "easy to reflect" shenanigans: ROB has two projectiles, people. Naryu's is slow enough that he can fake-out laser, you NL, and he waits a split-second before he throws his Gyro so that it hits you in NL's massive cooldown lag. A smart ROB will figure this out after like.... 2 tries.

Or he can vice versa: throw a weak Gyro (so when you NL, it won't reflect all the way back to him), then laser you in your cooldown.

Or you can just go with shielding, but then you still have to approach at some point. Good luck with that.

No offense, but I get the same impression as MrEh -- on the fat character = easier thing. The only character that theory really applies for is Bowser, but he's a doodoo character. ROB is not.

I agree with 40:60.

I disagree with the first part... If you don't see a laser coming at you should not be reflecting anything. Nayru's is not so slow that you can't reflect on reaction time.

When he throws a gyro catching it is sometimes the better option to reflection. This way you can either plan something with it (glide toss etc). Or simply hold on to it so you know that if he tries to camp that it is only a laser to worry about.

In the end I don't mind anything in between 40-60 and 50-50 though. His speed and range make this tough...

Really, against a good Zelda (hell, any good player) I don't expect to get much damage from my projectiles. They're just tools to harass and edge guard. I'd recommend power shielding projectiles and just ignoring NL completely unless you're already in the air or using it as an OoS option.

​

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I don't like this match up one bit he's a marth with jectilces and he flies he can harass our recovery and safely. It's a very frustating match up another match up where din's is pretty much useless.

 

[Sudai]

*flies in at the mention of ROB vs Zelda* I know this match-up like it were my laptop desktop (it's 100% black, so it's not hard to pick apart. XP). @_@

Alright, I did a write up on this forever ago so I'm gonna read through it and edit anything that I think is false now days. Other than that, I'm gonna super lurk this thread and point out anything I see that's wrong or needs to be expanded more upon. <.<

Okay..I found my "Write Up" and it's..not as much as I remembered. XD

Was literally a link to a video of me vs Mocha and me saying "Do this." Sadly, the video isn't up any more so I can't link to it.

Basically, the big idea is, we camp you. Not conventional camping though. ROB's tilts out speed and out disjoint every ground option Zelda has (yes, I know how fast your DTilt and DSmash are, I'll cover jab a bit later), so we camp at FTilt range and if you try to do anything, we tilt you. That's our best option and if we can pressure you back against a ledge, we're at a serious advantage.

So as a Zelda, what you want to do is just stay close to ROB. Use your jab, and if you absolutely have to go aerial, auto canceled NAir landing behind ROB is an awesome idea. Your NAir and Jab are awesome in this. Your Jab is fast enough and disjointed enough to contend with ROB's titles, but if you hit us, we're either spaced wrong, timed something wrong, or we're going to trade.

Try to get ROB into the air, bait the airdodge, and keep us in the air. If you can bait a low airdodge, auto canceled NAir > USmash is great. It'll rack up damage -and- get us back in the air.

USmash is awesome for pressuring ROB in his shield, you can get in on us fast, it last forever (spotdodge eater, yay), and it will shield poke us if our shield is a bit depleted and we don't angle it. There's also enough frames between the end of the hitlag on some parts of the USmash that we can accidentally buffer a roll while tilting our shield and it'll eff us because the next hit will come out before we gain invincibility.

That's all that really comes to mind right now. If I think up more, or see something I want to comment on, you can expect me to. Lurking this thread hardcore. :o

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

So as a Zelda, what you want to do is just stay close to ROB. Use your jab, and if you absolutely have to go aerial, auto canceled NAir landing behind ROB is an awesome idea. Your NAir and Jab are awesome in this. Your Jab is fast enough and disjointed enough to contend with ROB's titles, but if you hit us, we're either spaced wrong, timed something wrong, or we're going to trade.

I don't think landing behind is a good idead normally will eat a bair.

 

[Sudai]

As said, auto cancel it. ROB's BAir isn't fast enough to punish it when auto canceled.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

As said, auto cancel it. ROB's BAir isn't fast enough to punish it when auto canceled.

That's true RoB bair is slow so is his nair but them things seem so fast. but i'll try the cross up FF nairs. I struggle with this match up the only good thing is that ROB is weakest beneath him. Uair/upsmash/utilt can be really good.

 

[sasook]

Off topic:

AL, just a request - do you mind not quoting the entire post if you just want to respond to one part of it? You can just quote that certain part, you know.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Off topic:

AL, just a request - do you mind not quoting the entire post if you just want to respond to one part of it? You can just quote that certain part, you know.

Okay i'll edit my post.

 

['V']

Uhhh... Hey guys!! Long time, no see!!

Ahh this fight... My favorite of all of Zelda's high tier matchups. ROB's tricky. He really needs to camp and space very well in order to solidly win this fight. When Zelda's on the ground next to him, he'll start to swing F-tilts and Jab against her shield if she indeed does that. Best thing to do here is what Sudai mentioned before, try to get close enough to where you can powershield those attacks and either Jab, D-smash, or D-tilt. Those attacks should get him off of her back in that situation. A nicely timed F-smash is good here also, but it needs to be precise.

Back in the day I remember ROB's like to D-smash. If Zelda's shields that attack and her back is facing him, it's a free B-air out of shield. That's a free 20 damage, definitely use that towards her advantage.

If she ever gets a grab opportunity, use U-throw. ROB doesn't have very many options in the air above Zelda except for airdodging and N-air. She can either N-air or U-air through the lag on both of these. Granted Zelda doesn't want to be above ROB either because he can do just as much to her as she can to him with N-air, U-air, etc.

When he goes to the ledge for edgecamping, space yourself far away enough from the edge and use Din's Fire to force him off. Usually he'll get-up attack or just ledgehop an airdodge. You can punish with U-smash, U-tilt, or other moves accordingly.

TAKE HIS GYRO!!! IT'S SUCH A GOOD THING WORKING FOR YOU IN THIS MATCH!!! Granted he'll try to bait you with lasers and tilts to get you to use Nayru's Love.

Don't follow him off stage very often. Though if he's charging his gyro while coming back to the stage, try to get underneath him. He can only airdodge or shoot the gyro, so use U-air to get that free hit in if possible.

Try not to get grabbed in this fight. ROB's got a lot going for him with all of his throws and even his grab release. You'll most likely end up off-stage though, and his main killing move in this fight is F-smash since Zelda's a light character. She can ledgehop N-air to get back on the stage, but watch if the ROB spaces accordingly. He edgegaurds best in this match. He's also able to gimp Zelda, so being offstage for too long is definitely not a good thing in this match.

Never land in front of him. He'll either grab you, F-tilt you, D-tilt you, or F-smash you. If your end the air, try to land behind him with an auto-canceled N-air. Like Sudai said, he can't punish accordingly, not even with D-smash.

Other than that, I think that's it...

<3 Sudai

=]

Double B-airs can pshyce a person out. Keep that as a possible option.

55 : 45 ROB's favor is what I come to.

Take him to Battlefield and it's 50 : 50 imo.

 

[Kataefi]

Wow... mocha. Please come back to these boards >.>

 

[Sudai]

Mocha is the reason I'm willing to accept and dollar amount MM vs any Zelda. We literally played this Match-up non-stop the summer after Brawl came out. There's like..no more advancing the meta-game in this match-up any more for either of us. @_@

 

['V']

Sudai and I really have just... completely maxed out the metagame for this particular fight. It's kinda depressing when you look deep down, but hey, we had fun, right buddy?

As for coming back, I guess I'm just a free spirit. I kinda just come and go as I please these days. I guess I've been gone for so long because I just wasn't having a lot of fun with this game. My main focus right now is to get everyone organized and good to go in my state so that everyone, including myself, will once again have fun with smash.

I'll pop in and out of these boards from time to time though. That is what a spectator does, right?

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Another character with frame 4 D-smash... awesome.

I hope you're ready to be Faired over and over again since that's what R.O.B. will be doing a lot whenever he gets a chance. The half a second startup of FW certainly doesn't help, so remember to carefully time your double jump to get out of this.

Uhhh... Hey guys!! Long time, no see!!

Hi!

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I don't find his slow projectiles too hard to reflect. That's always cool.

he's a massive target for aerials.

if he tries to go below the stage and hugs the bottom, din's fire's hitbox is NORMALLY big enough to stage spike him if you let the stage detonate it on the stage's surface directly above him.



Othetr than that, I think you know most of the things about this matchup that make it good or bad. IT's between 55:45 one way or another: a very even matchup, but not a particularly fun one.

 

[mountain_tiger]

I'm going to say it's 50:50 overall. Definitely not as hard as most top/high tier MUs are.

For a start, Zelda' reflector can actually be put to use here, since there's a bit of start-up lag with his lasers and gyros, though with the laser he can angle it so that it won't be reflected back in his direction. Also, if he does pull out a gyro, then grab it. Zelda has a very good glide toss, allowing her a much easier time approaching than normal.

Like with most big characters, lightning kicks are fairly easy to land here. Well, fairly easy compared to most characters... ROB also has a massive blindspot below him, making USmash and Uair very useful for juggling him, since his only real options are Dair and Nair, and those moves are hella slow.

Unfortunately, ROB's close range options in general beat ours, in terms of both range and speed. FTilt and DTilt are both fast pokes, and his DSmash is just as good a panic move as our own. The best option is to try and stay really close in, so that the range advantage is nullified.

That's about all I know. I'm calling it even.

 

[CY]

dphat

dallasphat

d phat

andy

gnes

greatness

 

[Kataefi]

Anyone got anything else to say on this matchup? Please contribute!... it's currently looking around 45:55 Rob's advantage, I'll fetch more of the Robs to get their take on it.

 

[GodAtHand]

I completely agree with 45-55 ROB... I'm so lazy... I really like throwing out what I think about the ratio but I really don't feel like saying why!

 

[MrEh]

40-60

Rob camps to hard and swings too fast. Seems like the only reason why Zelda players think the matchup is neutralish is because ROB is easy to kick. In fact, most Zelda players think that Zelda goes even with or beats every single fat character in the game, simply because "they're easy to kick."

Same thing with DK and Dedede. That's not 50-50 and 60-40, no way. (but that's for another time and place)

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

rob's projectiles are way easy to reflect. nor sure how you think he can camp so hard.

 

[KayLo!]

What MrEh said.

He beats Zelda close-range, beats Zelda in the air, his fair can **** her recovery so hard, he juggles Zelda fairly well, and he can camp Zelda whether you want to believe it or not. He also has a decent plank game -- and no, Din's stage spikes aren't gonna save you. The only safe position against ROB is underneath him, but ROB has no need to go in the air against Zelda when his ground game > ours.

As for the "easy to reflect" shenanigans: ROB has two projectiles, people. Naryu's is slow enough that he can fake-out laser, you NL, and he waits a split-second before he throws his Gyro so that it hits you in NL's massive cooldown lag. A smart ROB will figure this out after like.... 2 tries.

Or he can vice versa: throw a weak Gyro (so when you NL, it won't reflect all the way back to him), then laser you in your cooldown.

Or you can just go with shielding, but then you still have to approach at some point. Good luck with that.

No offense, but I get the same impression as MrEh -- on the fat character = easier thing. The only character that theory really applies for is Bowser, but he's a doodoo character. ROB is not.

I agree with 40:60.

 

[Sudai]

ROB camps Zelda even without his projectiles, just not in the traditional sense. We camp you from (our)FTilt range.

Really, against a good Zelda (hell, any good player) I don't expect to get much damage from my projectiles. They're just tools to harass and edge guard. I'd recommend power shielding projectiles and just ignoring NL completely unless you're already in the air or using it as an OoS option.



I'll also agree with 60:40 ROB's favor because back when me and Mocha played like, every day, we went 50/50 but he's a better player than me. :x

 

[GodAtHand]

As for the "easy to reflect" shenanigans: ROB has two projectiles, people. Naryu's is slow enough that he can fake-out laser, you NL, and he waits a split-second before he throws his Gyro so that it hits you in NL's massive cooldown lag. A smart ROB will figure this out after like.... 2 tries.

Or he can vice versa: throw a weak Gyro (so when you NL, it won't reflect all the way back to him), then laser you in your cooldown.

I disagree with the first part... If you don't see a laser coming at you should not be reflecting anything. Nayru's is not so slow that you can't reflect on reaction time.

When he throws a gyro catching it is sometimes the better option to reflection. This way you can either plan something with it (glide toss etc). Or simply hold on to it so you know that if he tries to camp that it is only a laser to worry about.

In the end I don't mind anything in between 40-60 and 50-50 though. His speed and range make this tough...

 

[KayLo!]

I disagree with the first part... If you don't see a laser coming at you should not be reflecting anything. Nayru's is not so slow that you can't reflect on reaction time.

Fake-out laser as in.... he can angle the laser so that it won't hit him on reflection. Not.... not shooting it. x.o

My point was that people who're saying his projectiles are "easy to reflect" are ignoring the fact that his second projectile still poses a threat in NL's cooldown, so reflecting is rarely a good idea. Because 9/10, even if you successfully reflect, it won't hit him, and you're a sitting duck for the incoming laser/Gyro.

When he throws a gyro catching it is sometimes the better option to reflection. This way you can either plan something with it (glide toss etc). Or simply hold on to it so you know that if he tries to camp that it is only a laser to worry about.

I wouldn't hold it for too long.... with an item in hand, Zelda's severely limited in what she can do. Her glide toss is sexy, though..... glide toss > usmash eatin shields alldai.

 

[Kataefi]

Okay so what am I putting? Sudai you seem to have great experience in this matchup... 40:60 or 45:55? It seems to hover from one to the other.

 

[KayLo!]

Sudai you seem to have great experience in this matchup... 40:60 or 45:55?

I'll also agree with 60:40 ROB's favor because back when me and Mocha played like, every day, we went 50/50 but he's a better player than me. :x

10quotesforkataefi.

 

[Kataefi]

Kaylo you'd be a sport if I were blind =p

I got confused because it mentions 60/40 and 50/50 in the same sentence. And then mocha saying 45:55 previously... two players which probably have the most experience here. This is my obsessive perfectionism at its FINEST!

But erm... yeah... *goes blind*

 

[Sudai]

Ehh, I swing back and fourth from 45/55 and 40/60 way too much when thinking about this match-up. Can we settle for 43.5/57.5? Haha. Honestly though, the difference between 40/60 and 45/55 isn't huge at all. I think going with 45/55 is probably the better idea, though, seeing as that's what Mocha put and I'm pretty sure that's what JCaesar and RedBandit would go with (I'm pretty sure that's what those two said last discussion and those two have as much, if not more experience in this match-up as me and Mocha).

So yeah. 45/55

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

ROB camps Zelda even without his projectiles, just not in the traditional sense. We camp you from (our)FTilt range.

that I will agree with.


ROB's projectiles are not sufficient to camp you, but his tilt is sufficient to poke you.

honestly though, he has a lot of problems with Zelda because of what she can do to him during an opening, the fact that our Dsmash is just as fast as his, and how hard it is for him to overcome a Zelda with momentum.


55:45 his advantage is fine though because, all things considered, he normally has an easier time killing zelda than vice versa.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

40-60

Rob camps to hard and swings too fast. Seems like the only reason why Zelda players think the matchup is neutralish is because ROB is easy to kick. In fact, most Zelda players think that Zelda goes even with or beats every single fat character in the game, simply because "they're easy to kick."

Same thing with DK and Dedede. That's not 50-50 and 60-40, no way. (but that's for another time and place)

I don't think it's because LK are easier to land for them. I think it's because they have a harder time DI'ing out of usmash. But that's just how I feel about larger characters.

 

[zeldspazz]

@AL: The point is that usually you're not going to be basing an entire matchup off of either of those things.

 

[Veggie123]

Same thing with DK. That's not 50-50, no way. (but that's for another time and place)

We should do DK soon Kat, I'm pretty well versed with that match up

The whole fat character thing is entirely coincidental for me, I actually didn't take their proportions into account while devising the ratios and only noticed the whole fat trend afterwards

I'm okay with 45-55, if it brings us to agreement faster so we can move on.

 

[MrEh]

Difference of 5 points isn't worth arguing about.

rob's projectiles are way easy to reflect.

And Naryu's is easily punishable. Anything is easy to reflect if someone shoots it at a full screen distance away.

and how hard it is for him to overcome a Zelda with momentum.

Um...no. That only works on characters that are retardedly slow, like Ivysaur or Link.

ROB can just run away and reset the situation. It's not that hard.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Um...no. That only works on characters that are retardedly slow, like Ivysaur or Link.

ROB can just run away and reset the situation. It's not that hard.

ROB can camp with his melees, but his projectiles are too **** slow. Once zelda gets any sort of lead, he can't FORCE an approach and his offense gets beaten by her defense.

furthermore, once she pops him up, she has the advantage. Rob has good air control, but he is in bad position if zelda is below him.

 

[Sudai]

ROB's offense -will- beat Zelda's defense for the same reason that we can 'camp' with FTilt. We out range Zelda. It's not by a lot, but it's enough that with proper spacing we can push her all the way to a ledge where the real fun begins. Watch any video of me vs Mocha and you'll see what I mean at least once a match, if not more.

 

[MrEh]

ROB can camp with his melees, but his projectiles are too **** slow.

ROB won't just sit around at full-screen distance and chuck projectiles at you. They can be used to punish, and provided that Zelda lags like crazy, it's not that hard.

Once zelda gets any sort of lead, he can't FORCE an approach and his offense gets beaten by her defense.

Zelda's defense is mediocre. It beats the low tiers, but that's because they suck. ROB doesn't run over Zelda like Snake and MK do, but he can still get in. Projectiles and tilts are pro. Bait ANYTHING (smash, reflector, etc) and you get smacked with a tilt. Dsmash punishes hard as well.

furthermore, once she pops him up, she has the advantage.

Furthermore, once he pops her up, he has the advantage.

but he is in bad position if zelda is below him.

but she is in a bad position if ROB is below her.


EDIT: What Sudai said.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Furthermore, once he pops her up, he has the advantage.



but she is in a bad position if ROB is below her.

considering you were talking about Zelda having momentum.... those comments have no bearing

 

[MrEh]

considering you were talking about Zelda having momentum.... those comments have no bearing

Momentum is something that every character can get.

We can say "but if Zelda has momentum then ________"

But we can also say "but if ROB has momentum then_______"


And what I said is true. Zelda gets ***** from below. Considering that this is a matchup discussion, I find that comment I made to be on topic.

 

[Kataefi]

Again same as sonic thread last post... please check and suggest things, or throw in new bits of info... etc etc etc...

 

[AzNfinesse]

ok well i kinda read some of the posts, so i'll end the arguing and add some suggestions.

but she is in a bad position if ROB is below her.

simple: stay grounded. this is with most of her matchups in general. zelda's aerial game consists of kills. her ground game and bait game is where she racks up damage, so obviously the best way to deal with this is stay grounded and keep the pressure on ROB.

read all of his projectiles. there is NO RULE in the black book of glitter that zelda MUST reflect every projectile thrown at her. it's simple to power shield the top. It's simple to air dodge or spot dodge the laser. Also notice that there is A LOT of lag when ROB does a laser. It goes unnoticed because most ROB's will do it at medium to long range. but if the situation arises that you are able to punish his laser, don't miss that opportunity.

The tilts are a pain because they outrange most of zelda's attacks. That's where power shielding comes into play. Power shield as much as possible and follow up with your tilts, jabs, and smashes. things to watch out for and follow up with are:

ftilt = jab/fsmash/ftilt
dtilt = run away (AHHHHH!!!!!!)
utilt = shouldn't be hitting you because you should never be above ROB and never be that close to ROB in fear of spotdodge>dsmash

But most importantly, PATIENCE!!! This is a tricky match because not only does ROB have the ability to camp and rack up insane damage on zelda, but his kill power is definitely up there. Keep your distance, wait for ROB to make a mistake, and punish (much like with any of zelda's matchups).

Zelda is a defensive campy character, and must be played such as. You should NEVER approach ROB head on with a 100% aggressive strategy. Play it safe and pay close attention to your spacing.