Matchup Rediscussion: Zelda vs Olimar

[Half-Split Soul]

There's only one thing that's bothering me in the OP: the part about jabbing his shield. When said it's relatively safe is the fact that only some of the hitboxes in her jab might hit taken into consideration?

 

[Kataefi]

Yeah I guess that's some heavy theory there. But the frame data of both moves is definitely legit in saying that if she does jab his shield (all 3 hits, and they should all hit), and ollimar responds with a grab, she can sneak in a Dsmash. I'll edit it to mention that this is what the frame data suggests.

Oh and this should be true of all tether grabbers I believe. Jabbing their shield should be shieldsafe.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Wait a minute....

Based on frame data, jabbing Olimar's shield is somewhat safe from being grabbed. With -8 frame cooldown on Zelda's Jab, and Olimar's grab coming out frame 11, she can jab his shield somewhat safely with the worst case situation being she trades his grab with a Dsmash or something quick dependant on the distance between the two.

So jab cooldown is 8 frames. DSmash's hitbox appears on frame 4. 8+4 = 12, which is more than 11 frames. Thus, his grab will hit before your DSmash.

 

[Kataefi]

My bad mountain, the worst case situation would be he has a 1 frame window to get the grab. This is why your not meant to be right next to his shield. Jab has some range on shields, so his grab is more than likely to come out on frame 12 or onwards because it needs to travel out when the opponent isn't at the closest distance.

It can also be a tad tricky to be frame perfect - 1 frame is mad fast. Zelda can buffer a Dsmash after jab which helps a lot.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

What about shieldstun? Is that included in the 11 frames it takes for Oli to grab?

Edit: I checked, it's not, meaning jabbing his shield is that much safer (which isn't a lot, though.)

 

[Le_THieN]

How can you guys mince so many words over a match-up so one-sided?

 

[sasook]

How can you guys mince so many words over a match-up so one-sided?

We have nothing else to do. *shrug*

 

[Kataefi]

This is the 'calmdown' post-matchup Le_Thien where we all go "omg but what if this works... no wait this should be good" etc etc... The actual matchup was pretty much decided 2 pages ago.

 

[MrEh]

How can you guys mince so many words over a match-up so one-sided?

Because this is the Zelda boards.

Any matchup discussion here generally involves grasping for any little gimmick that Zelda can utilize, no matter how terrible and nonviable that thing is.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Because this is the Zelda boards.

Any matchup discussion here generally involves grasping for any little gimmick that Zelda can utilize, no matter how terrible and nonviable that thing is.

lovejump pwns your sox . . .

BUT WAIT!!!

REVERSE LOVE JUMP!!!!!

what now?

 

[Brinzy]

We play Zelda, why would we not grasp for straws?

 

[MrEh]

We play Zelda, why would we not grasp for straws?

Because that won't help you win.


What will help you win is good spacing and good application of Zelda's few good attributes.

Being a smart player will help too. I'll be frank here, you won't be winning unless you seriously outplay your opponents, and that requires good experience and the ability to read well.

 

[Brinzy]

And, naturally, not all of this can be provided on the message board. However, while someone is here, they can at least read up on small things that may just help them.

The reason why a lot of this is discussed is because we're trying to find "good application" for her "few good attributes." There's absolutely no point or sense in turning down every single possibility a player could take when they're fighting battles they likely cannot win anyway.