Matchup Q&A: Ask Specific Character Matchup Questions Here

[B0NK]

Side-B or any aerial of your choice (preferably not d-air)

DK's down-B is supposed to punish you for committing to a grounded option or landing near him from a fair distance. Just understand how much range it has and you can easily bait it with dash up into or just outside of it's range > Jump > Side-B/Aerial of choice.

 

[| Big D |]

I usually squall into them from the air.

Blizzard can challenge it's range in the air before you land.

 

[-LzR-]

If I am in the ground and cannot do any of that should I just shield the thing and retreat?

 

[DeLux]

Put an IB down with Nana and then SH with Popo and blizzard. By the time he gets out of blizzard, Nana will be in range to cover you with multiple options including an aerial or a grab.

 

[B0NK]

Also make sure if you go the shield and retreat route to be mindful of your low shield so it doesn't get broken by random shi- or abused.

Easy to avoid though =P

 

[-LzR-]

All right thanks.

 

[Twigz]

hi guys, i was wondering how would u play vs diddy as IC? I read the Op, but ugh IDK. HE spams bananas! should i focus on defensive or aggresive play. And what general advice can u give to a fellow IC player to improve? Lastly, how do you train solo and/or what is your training regime?

 

[Twigz]

1 last thing, Is FD a bad stage for IC's to play Diddy?

 

[Ruinn]

i need to get the lingo down

what is ib? lol i know it suonds bad but oh well

also, down b is dk's prime move against ic's, but squall in the air pretty much beats it

 

[dettadeus]

ib = ice block

@Twigz I'd take diddy to Lylat Cruise just because Lux convinced me of how amazing it is, and FD against Diddy would be stupid.

 

[TheSaintKai]

ib = ice block

@Twigz I'd take diddy to Lylat Cruise just because Lux convinced me of how amazing it is, and FD against Diddy would be stupid.

Your FD comment is incorrect, but your Lylat comment is good.

I would never take Diddy to Smashville.

Edit: I realized this came off as kinda d-baggy without explanation so here's a small one that I'll continue on if you don't understand it.

On Smashville, the ability to platform cancel does NOT give us a more significant advantage than Diddy gains from a platform to camp on and do stupid platform things with as well as a small stage that he can control 90% of with his bananas.

On FD he controls the same amount of distance, but that's a much smaller portion of the stage due to FD being really really long. He has no platform to escape to as well.

 

[dettadeus]

Do we have any air grab release stuff on Wario?

 

[B0NK]

^^^Doesn't really matter since the Wario should never ground release on SoPo if he's mashing correctly. ICs are too short lol.

Unless our pivot grab can force air release or something and I forgot.

And if you have Nana, you should be CGing him to death anyways.

But f-smash and/or u-smash should work otherwise?

 

[n1n10do]

I need help doing the infinite Chaingrab with the Ice Climbers, i can only get up to like 80% can someone help me out ?

 

[dettadeus]

If you can get it all the way up to 80%, you're doing it right and just getting nervous towards the end. Don't look at your opponent's percentage and just focus on the timing/spacing.

 

[-LzR-]

Maybe you are using a Dthrow cg. Dthrow gets a lot harder at higher % while being easier at low %.

 

[| Big D |]

How do we wreck Mr. Game and Watch.

I'm just not seeing it.

 

[TheSaintKai]

How do we wreck Mr. Game and Watch.

I'm just not seeing it.

One of his only safe moves is b-air, and it's really not very safe unless spaced perfectly. Fair isn't safe on PS, he only really gets difficult when he camps a platform.

If he bairs you, after 5 hits (in the air, but before he hits the ground) he is vulnerable. the 6th hit comes out once he lands. if he misspaces it, you can grab him there. With less than optimal spacing, you can ISSDI the 5th hit and grab him. If he spaces perfectly you cannot grab bair, I'm fairly certain.
On the ground he loses. Pretty self explanatory.
He has no direct answer to blizzard if you mix up correctly and use it sparingly.
He dies at like 95% in CG.

Don't try and punish nair.

Um.

I don't use squall very much in this matchup.

Um.

Anyone else have opinions? And does our Uair beat his dair?
Also, NEVER **** WITH HIM OFFSTAGE EVER EVER EVER

 

[-LzR-]

Yes, uair will beat dair when you are directly below him. Trying to do so from the sides is harder.

 

[Rubberbandman]

How do we wreck Mr. Game and Watch.

I'm just not seeing it.

G&W's only tools in the matchup are Bair (powershield-able, SDI-able and unsafe 90% of the time)
Up-B (to punish Icies if they are ******** and attack his shield with an aerial by tossing them in the air to juggle them)
And Up-Air(same as Up-B, but more risky and situational)
GW's Dair loses to UpAir, can be easily pivotgrabbed if you know its coming.

GnW has to stay on platforms to win and bait out Icies aerials. He can never grab, not even as a mixup. Not even with respawn invincibility is he able to come in and safely throw. Ice Blocks and blizzard ruin his day. Blizzard can be bucketed but it doesn't do much.

The knowledge rate for the MU is like 3:1; As in, the matchup grows in Ice Climber's favor 3:1 with experience. Which is probably why you don't see why we wreck GnW.

 

[-LzR-]

This is the kind of MU that appears to be in G&W favor until you learn to how to beat his stuff and then he is absolutely free.

 

[DeLux]

I have issues with Game and Watch lol. If they know the secret, it's probably only -1 or -2

 

[-LzR-]

The one, the only, the incredible Vinnie disagrees. Where is his input? I expect he knows more than any of us here about the MU...

 

[dettadeus]

Can someone give me some help with the D3 matchup? Like what sorts of things beat what (blizzard/IBs beating which D3 options), whether to stay synced more often than not, how to deal with inhale, etc.
Also which stages a D3 would probably counterpick me to would be helpful, assuming I ban RC.

 

[| Big D |]

Sorry dude, DDD is invincible. Never really fought a Dedede, they always switch to like Marth or something vs me.

Also the GW I play bairs all day and Up Bs whenever he's uncomfortable, real smart about it too.
I actually go Snake in this MU against him.

 

[DeLux]

I play the DDD matchup like he is an Olimar with a billion jumps to some moderate success.

Which GnW is it?

 

[| Big D |]

Blue Yoshi, guy scares me tbh, doesn't take our locals seriously and does dumb stuff but when he tries he can beat anyone in our region.

Really smart with infinite patience...

ICs are his favorite MU... and I don't know what makes the MU so good for us, I probably need to play more patient/synced, but I get the job done with Snake, at the same time I want to do it with ICs, and I need to use less commas.

 

[DeLux]

Instead of just blindly running at him, try to use a dash dance where you dash away and then cancel it into a dash towards him on approach. This will augment your spacing making it more likely you PS meaning more likely you maintain momentum going into GnW's Bair. You sacrifice 2-7 frames on startup of your dash, but that doesn't matter since he's walling with Bair anyways.

If you throw out a desync Ice Shot with Nana and then do this with Popo, you might trap his landings since he'll spend a long time trapped on your shield and then the hitstun of Ice Shot might be enough to get the grab in. You can also attempt it with blizzard.

Worst case scenario he has time to Fire away and you can RPS hitting him out of Fire or grabbing him out of landings. Based on what you said, it doesn't sound like he knows the secret of beating ICs. And if he doesn't know it I'm not going to just tell you in case he reads this :D

Don't be afraid to just hit the crap out of him though since that's what using Fire as an out option leads to.

 

[| Big D |]

Sweet thanks for the help

If this can legit beat out his bairs, it will make the MU much less tedious.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Can someone give me some help with the D3 matchup? Like what sorts of things beat what (blizzard/IBs beating which D3 options), whether to stay synced more often than not, how to deal with inhale, etc.
Also which stages a D3 would probably counterpick me to would be helpful, assuming I ban RC.

I play the DDD matchup like he is an Olimar with a billion jumps to some moderate success.

This is the basis of the mu. Sit outside of Ftilt range and poke at him with Ice Shot and Blizzard. If you bait Ftilts at bad ranges for D3, you can Powershield and grab him for it. D3 Dair beats UAir and loses to Belay, just don't belay at low/mid percents; throw it out there to make him respect it and stop Dairing you. Its risky and unsafe to throw it out randomly, though. The only things saving him is his number of jumps and praying that you don't throw out a hitbox.

Based on what you said, it doesn't sound like he knows the secret of beating ICs. And if he doesn't know it I'm not going to just tell you in case he reads this :D.

I think I know what you're talking about, and almost no one will use it against us for a good 2-3 years. By that time, the game will be dead.

 

[theunabletable]

What the **** do ICs do against Snake lol? Any videos of Vinnie or 9B vs a good Snake player? I know that top ICs do well at the matchup, but I have no idea how, and I really want to learn it.

 

[Twigz]

And what do you do against Falco? How do you fight/approach him?

 

[Jrugs]

Soooooooooooo.....who wants to go to New York?
Opening up a carpool for Impact in New York Tell your friends

(disclaimer one way trip)

 

[-LzR-]

How do you deal with MK? I've almost given up on that MU by now. Almost everything he does seems entirely safe against Icies and a single hit can mean a stock. How is this MU not at least -3? What have you guys learned to make it decent? I get owned by every MK in existence with Icies but I do kinda well with other crappier characters for some reason. The usual MK will jump and dair a lot and that's it. You need to get exactly below him to be able to uair him and uair won't help much since he will kill you at any % anyways and uair sucks at killing. When they are low on jumps then usually nado which pokes my shield every single time and if I can avoid it, they dsmash or GSL immediately upon landing.
Surely there is something that gives Icies some hope?

 

[DeLux]

In KC we ban him

 

[dettadeus]

Learn to be Vinnie.

 

[-LzR-]

Seriously though I've watched a lot of videos of the match up and tried to see what's going on, but I can barely see why do the MK players get grabbed so much? It's like very easy to not get grabbed so why can Vinnie just go there and grab them? Why aren't the MKs spacing well enough or why are they shielding in the platform above ICies and so on... /rantfromlosingallhope

 

[Ruinn]

The average mk strat against ics is to dair like 5 times, and then nado. my guess is that they hope you hold your shield up the entire time because of the dairs, and because of your shield being low, thats when they nado. what i see vinnie/others do a lot is uair oos when they dair you. it can throw the mk off especially if they think you're just going to keep shielding. also, sh fair from mk isn't safe on shield, you can dash grab it if your reaction time is good. also, dont always run from nado. remember, blizzard beats it and you can even pivot grab nado. thats pretty much all i gathered from my experience playing mks/watching people play, best of luck and hope you can beat that mu!

 

[-LzR-]

Well yeah that's how it usually goes. Dair cannot really be uaired oos unless you manage to go directly below him as uair has sad horizontal range. The tornado always catches me even though I can see it coming. Every single MK I have ever played uses the same strategy.
And then there is dsmash, whenever I am dangerously close to MK and he feels threatened, he will eaither GSL or dsmash. GSL gets me a free uair if I play well, but dsmash I can't do anything about.
This MU feels like something that isn't truly winnable until higher levels of play as there is almost no room for error for ICs, even less than usual.

 

[TheSaintKai]

Well yeah that's how it usually goes. Dair cannot really be uaired oos unless you manage to go directly below him as uair has sad horizontal range. The tornado always catches me even though I can see it coming. Every single MK I have ever played uses the same strategy.
And then there is dsmash, whenever I am dangerously close to MK and he feels threatened, he will eaither GSL or dsmash. GSL gets me a free uair if I play well, but dsmash I can't do anything about.
This MU feels like something that isn't truly winnable until higher levels of play as there is almost no room for error for ICs, even less than usual.

I hate to sound like a douchebag,

but if it's something you need to be at a "higher level of play" to beat, why don't you just get better?

Also, if he's not expecting it (use it for kills) you can OOS full hop f-air him or DJ b-air him after you perfect shield one of his d-airs.
If you are able to shield GSL, that means you're shielding there.
If you shield the first hit of his d-smash, you have two options for a punish.
A) You power shielded. Dash grab WILL work as long as it's the FIRST hit of d-smash.
B) You didn't power shield. LD2 OOS and drop an IB with nana. If he doesn't jump, you get a grab.