Matchup Discussion - Snake

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I like Orange

And okay Castle Siege is personally an underrated Snake CP but in this case its situational.

1st phase is probably what would benefit Snake the most. Its small so less room for Oli to camp at mid range. Lower than average vertical ceilng, and platforms for Snake to get stage control. I think Snake gaining momentum is more dangerous here.

In between phases- Snake should avoid Olimar. One Blue F-throw and B-throw at the wrong spot results in an easy kill.

2nd phase seems to be neutral. Its huge. With the stone statues both sides' projectiles would be blocked. Snake could just run away for this whole phase if he wanted. Cypher makes it easy. He could try to get Oli to chase him but no smart Olimar is going to fall for that. Snake also has to be careful because of the blastzones again like in the transitional part of the stage. The only way Snake is getting a kill though here is likely a F-Tilt and that involves a lot of risk.

3rd phase is probably more for Olimar but not bad for Snake. Its FD but smaller. Oli could probably camp here easier but it can go either way. This seems neutrak ish but realistically more in Olimar's favor.

I think Castle Siege is worth looking into but if its legit its not going to be ground breaking. IMO I think the only reason this MU is in Oli's favor slightly is because of stage selection and Oli being able to camp a bit better.

Pictochat seems like a bad idea when I think about it. Not worth delving into further.

Rainbow Cruise is a bad idea too lol

I'd probably do Lylat, SV or Brinstar against you guys. Frigate seems like a great idea at first but its so-so.

 

[-Vocal-]

I like Orange

And okay Castle Siege is personally an underrated Snake CP but in this case its situational.

1st phase is probably what would benefit Snake the most. Its small so less room for Oli to camp at mid range. Lower than average vertical ceilng, and platforms for Snake to get stage control. I think Snake gaining momentum is more dangerous here.

In between phases- Snake should avoid Olimar. One Blue F-throw and B-throw at the wrong spot results in an easy kill.

2nd phase seems to be neutral. Its huge. With the stone statues both sides' projectiles would be blocked. Snake could just run away for this whole phase if he wanted. Cypher makes it easy. He could try to get Oli to chase him but no smart Olimar is going to fall for that. Snake also has to be careful because of the blastzones again like in the transitional part of the stage. The only way Snake is getting a kill though here is likely a F-Tilt and that involves a lot of risk.

3rd phase is probably more for Olimar but not bad for Snake. Its FD but smaller. Oli could probably camp here easier but it can go either way. This seems neutrak ish but realistically more in Olimar's favor.

I think Castle Siege is worth looking into but if its legit its not going to be ground breaking. IMO I think the only reason this MU is in Oli's favor slightly is because of stage selection and Oli being able to camp a bit better.

Pictochat seems like a bad idea when I think about it. Not worth delving into further.

Rainbow Cruise is a bad idea too lol

I'd probably do Lylat, SV or Brinstar against you guys. Frigate seems like a great idea at first but its so-so.

Just a note: the statue's will only stop Olimar's purple pikmin, all others will continue to fly and latch on as usual. Also, purposefully putting yourself above Olimar generally isn't a good idea unless you have a REALLY good reason to; we love a chance to use our uair and tether And speaking of tether, not only can it make it dangerous to stay up high, it could actually lead to your death; depending on what pikmin is next in line and how close you are to the blastzone, it can definitely have enough knockback to take a stock.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Well, I see the tether as telegraped and you only really only get one shot at it when Snake's in the air but you're right. Of course I've learned to always watch what Pikmin you guys have in front and behind that one. Obviously I won't put myself in the air unless I HAVE to. Snakes are land animals lol I might try Castle Siege soon but I think we have safer options against you guys personally.

God I hate fighting Olimars sometimes I think about secondarying him because he's so annoying to fight and we have 10,000 Snakes in Michigan.

EDIT: The statues don't stop the other ones? Dammit lol I fear purples but the fact we can't get Grenades past Statues is a hindrance. Okay this is more in Oli's favor then.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

No, purples aren't stopped by the statues either, none of the pikmin are.

Also, Brinstar isn't as good of a choice as you'd think, but not enough Olimars know how to take advantage of the stage enough for it to.. not be a good CP for you, lol.

Edit: WHAT? What Snakes do you all have in Michigan?! XD We have Renegade, Infern, Nope, and like twenty other snakes over here, I didn't think Michigan had any at all lmao

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

LOL Hilt if only you knew. There's way too many here. Like 15 or so. Only 3 or 4 are worth mentioning lol

*sighs* Oli just seems to have a significant edge on the stages here. L_Cancel knows the match so well too it doesn't seem feasible to win to go Snake vs Oli in my state -_-

 

[-Vocal-]

My bad, Hilt's right lol, purples do go into hitstun but they continue flying afterwards

 

[Jane]

purples dont give a **** about statues

 

[Infern Angelis]

LOL Hilt if only you knew. There's way too many here. Like 15 or so. Only 3 or 4 are worth mentioning lol

*sighs* Oli just seems to have a significant edge on the stages here. L_Cancel knows the match so well too it doesn't seem feasible to win to go Snake vs Oli in my state -_-

Unless he fights me! Cause his Olimar goes downnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <3 L Cancel

 

[L_Cancel]

Oh snap namesearch. It's true though. Infern is the only snake in the MW I lose to. :<

Infern too good.

 

[Greward]

castle siege give us an advantage on second stage. u cant camp because of the statues and if u dacus statues will give us time to react for it, the other 2 are advantage for snake, i cant say too much more because i hate this stage. i usually strike SV and FD/yoshis against snake, they suck. BF and PS1 are probably our better stages, at least they are the ones i like most.

snake usually wait for us to jump, then he approaches with dacus when were landing. our aerials usually dont stop snake's dash attack (maybe yellow fair.. dunno) so its a pretty much safe approach, and we gotta jump to camp him well. because of this i want to go agressive, i usually wait to latch a white pikmin on him and then i aproach, because he will have to kill that pikmin and then it will be easier. running to him and doing a shielgrab cancel sometime works, but the most safe is to have a white and a purple, u throw the white at him, he lacks it off, then u throw a purple, he shields, u grab him with the next pikmin. fair on his shield with a yellow pikmin is safe, if he tries to punish it with ftilt u can shieldgrab him.
C4s completely mess my metagame and ur stage control, i hate them so much =/ if he gets a grab and dthrow u, hope hes stupid enough to just ftilt u and get like 40%, but at least u can get out of there.
dtilt and fsmash beats snake's dash attack. dthrow to dair has worked to me at low %, in the edge its an easy kill if u get the second dair when he is using the cypher, im not sure about this though.
this matchup is horrible, u get an awesome combo and he comebacks with 3 attacks, in addition hes unkillable and ur dying at only 100% every time. getting back to the stage against snake is horrible so platforms are a must for me, if not he will be pivot grabbing u every time u are landing and then dthrow to some weird stuff. being in the ledge is also horrible against snake.

if the snake knows the matchup he has the advantage imo

 

[wwwilliam0024]

IMPORTANT TIPS!!

From my personal experience here, as the best olimar player from D.R. i suggest you to follow:

1- Use your pikmin wisely and always know which pikmin youre going to use next, this is key to follow your strategy. Throw your white pikmin to gain easy damage, USE the white pikmin best when hes throwing and taking out grenades, he will get at least 16 - 24 % since he has to finish the move in order to take the pikmin off.

Purple pikmins always seem to go threw, for an unexpected approach, use your purple pikmin, it hits decent enough to make him vulnerable, both getting up from the ground and returning to the stage if hit in the air.

Other pikmin can be thrown as well, but i mainly use them for distraction or grenade stopping.

2- DO NOT perform a Running grab towards him unless its a punishment for a failed move, he can easily Break your grab with his Ftilt (knee).

- Mortar sliding is predictable, shield to a grab or If far, pivot grab.

- Shield all his Ftilts and you can get a free grab everytime. (but dont fall into Tilt mind games.)

- If you ever see him pulling out a grenade, if youre in distance, approach for grab! But pummeling is not recommended since you could explode his grenade, so just quickly throw him, and dodge/use his fallen grenade.

3- Air game is very simple, when you get the first Grab you can easily combo him to 50%, (Dthrow + Usmash + Uair + Uair + Up b) Be on the look out for his fall, If he dodges, take advantage and punish him, Watch out if he tries to attack, simply shield the attack and punish with grab or Up smash to start the air game once more.

- Mind games are most useful here, for example, If snake is above you and you jump, he will probably think your going to attack, so he will dodge, but since you didnt throw any attack you are free to punish this unnecessary air dodge. (Note: its not like the will always dodge, figure out what his move will be before anything.)

4- Approach him with patience and dont think you can easily run and grab him, this wont work!! Simply destroy his grenade game with your pikmin and force him to approach you, dont think that your long ranged attack will always win against his Tilts... it wont..

5- Edge game is something very important, when not getting edge hogged and successfully returning to grab the edge, most snakes stay close at decent distance spamming their tilts, grenade/bomb games or pressing down the A button, in these cases, make sure you have a yellow pikmin behind you, you can easily drop and double jump to Uair under the stage and it will hit him and gain enough time for you to get back up. The Uair can go through: Battle field, Final destination, and even SMASH VILLE!!

Note:
- Do not over use this, if the snake player gets your timing he can easily shield/dodge this into an edge hog.

- Also if you succeed doing the Uair under the stage, dont do your UpB right away for there are chances your UpB will fail, so try to move back below the edge before using you UpB.

Well thats pretty much what i have now, this is basic, any other question and ill gladly reply it!!

THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT I DIDNT MENTION. but its to much to actually finish it, maybe ill make a thread about this if no one minds ^ ^ :3

- William

 

[Dnyce]

THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT I DIDNT MENTION. but its to much to actually finish it, maybe ill make a thread about this if no one minds ^ ^ :3

Just post in here if you have any more information. There is no need to make a new thread. Good stuff though

 

[DtJ Hilt]

..Wow! Welcome to the family, William Liked the post

One thing I want to note about what you posted, is that Uairing through the stage against Snake isn't a good idea. If he pulls out a grenade, it's an instant stage spike >__<

 

[Noa.]

Even though I didn't read EVERYTHING, I read enough to know you're competent and you said nothing wrong.

 

[Dnyce]

..Wow! Welcome to the family, William Liked the post

One thing I want to note about what you posted, is that Uairing through the stage against Snake isn't a good idea. If he pulls out a grenade, it's an instant stage spike >__<

Yeah, but I mean all it takes is a bit of common sense. If he pulls a nade and rolls away don't uair through the stage, lol. Normal get up and grab the nade ;o

 

[Jane]

Wow we have a lot of REALLY good info in this thread. Has a summary been made yet?

 

[wwwilliam0024]

..Wow! Welcome to the family, William Liked the post

One thing I want to note about what you posted, is that Uairing through the stage against Snake isn't a good idea. If he pulls out a grenade, it's an instant stage spike >__<

First of all, i assume you will be able to see his animations before doing an action, if you see him pulling out a grenade, dont go for the Uairing.

Second of all, the grenade range does not reach olimar under battle filed or Smash ville, im saying LITERALLY under battle field.

Stage spiking has only happened to me once and it was in Final. But never again.

 

[wwwilliam0024]

PIKMIN GUIDE

I decided to show a little specialty of mine when it comes to pikmin quantity and color.
Depending on the pikmin on the front of the line you are able to start various combos, and depending on the pikmin behind you will be able to modify it as you wish, this is why i personally love olimar, and its also why im considered the best here (no cocky-ness intended.) I take advantage of every pikmin color and position to do what i must do to turn the match to my side.

Start-up combo, are like most of you know, olimars easiest and most guaranteed way to get your opponent a lot of damage in a matter of seconds. I will be showing you guys a few combos and techniques that you guys should have in mind when you have x number of pikmins and colors.

First of all, you must always have these in mind:

- Make sure you know the order of your pikmins ( i NEVER attack without knowing which pikmin is going to do the attack, and knowing the order of the following pikmins will help me create instant combos) This is key when it comes to olimar players, know your pikmin!

- Constantly blow your Whistle to change the position of your pikmin and order them as you wish, depending on the desired combo. (whistle is also a good way to Pivot out of trouble, but ill explain later.)

-In very RARE occasions you might pluck a bunch of same colored pikmin, dont think that just because its all monotone and they all have the same effects, they wont be useful at all..

START UPS

Well any pikmin can do the start up combo, which is grabbing your opponent and slamming them down, from there depending on the pikmin you will be able to do different combos.

Here is what i normally perform depending on the pikmin:

NOTE: The following combos all start from the Down throw!


RED PIKMIN: Normal hit stun, normally follwed by Fair or Upsmash to continue combo.

YELLOW PIKMIN: A favorite of mine due to its priority and big hit box! When thrown down you can easily connect almost any attack, but forward air and Upsmash is still recommended.

WILL FACT: Due to the hit stun of the yellow pikmin, if you ever grab a snake next to the edge after you down throw him you can immediately SPIKE HIM DOWN! its not going to kill him but Snake in the air = Sandbag, and hes right below you, or he will blow him self up trying to evade another spike or simply try to fight you, but in those circumstances, fighting is useless for snake so iff you manage to "involucrar" (involucrar is a Dominican word used like PWN or OWN) that snake while hes below you, youll get a very easy stock!

BLUE PIKMIN: best knock back on all pikmins, Fair combos and Usmash combos can be done! But if you take advantage of the range (blue pikmin is the longest grab in the game after all) you can go for some easy follow ups for example:

Forward throw -> F throw -> F throw (until reach the edge)

F Throw -> D throw -> F throw -> Upsmash

It all depends on your ability to follow up!

PURPLE PIKMIN: Not really the best Starter... But he can at least do the normal starter. (D throw - Fair)

NOTE: when you D throw with the purple pikmin and you try to connect a U smash after, its not always going to hit for your opponent can SDi far away to evade the hit, so i recommend to just do the normal D throw -> Fair combo.

WHITE PIKMIN: They have the weakest knockback, but its not all bad, you can take advantage of this very easily, since the pikmin doesnt really hit that hard, your opponent will not fly far, leading to any attack or even grabbing him once more to start the combo with a different pikmin!

WILL FACT: Did you know that when you Grab pummel with the White pikmin each hit makes 6% to 5% to 4%... its a VERY decent amount of damage for a pummel, so you can easily before starting a combo you can Pummel the opponent several times so you can rank up much more damage!

COMBOS and TECHNIQUES:

I will now show a few combos and techniques on certain cases, from my own experience.


1- One time i plucked 4 yellow pikmins, huge priority + large hitbox = WIN.

UP smash > Uair > Uair > Uair > Uair

Yes i managed to connect 4 UAIRS with a little platform help, and gained an easy 60% combo..


2- When ever you have the cute PURPLE PIKMIN in SECOND on your row, heres something you should try:

Dthrow > Throw purple pikmin > any desired attack

Of course the more damage the person has the more difficult it is to perform.


3- If you ever get to have more than 3 blue pikmins on your line, i suggest to change your game play and act a little more aggressive BUT with caution, since you have the longest grab in the game behind you, youll be able to make ridiculous grabs at a decent distance! Take advantage of your luck!


4- Massive purple pikmin Swarm! Indeed once i had 5 purple pikmins on top of me, i though it was very good, but i made a mistake and kept playing like if they were normal pikmins..

When you ever have Huge amounts of Purples, you need to change your style to Projectile mode!
Believe me theres nothing more annoying than havin 4 pikmin tossed on you and all of them making you flinch! you can do things such as:

- Throw purple pikmin and then Fair
- Throw huge amounts of purple pikmin in a row, your opponent will eventually get out of shield and get hit, and if hes close to the edge he will get pushed making him to force gran to the edge, take advantage!!

5- Massive White pikmin army!! When ever having a lot of white pikmins these are the best ways to use them:

- If youre on a bad situation where you need to run more than anything, Get away and throw ur white pikmins to your opponent!

NOTE:

-Do not throw them all at the same time, throw one, wait for the opponent to get rid o the pikmin and while hes at it you should use the opportunity to throw more or grab ( if you throw them all he will just kill them, even the ones that still havent reached him)

- Grab pummeling and combo! If your strong is Grabs and mind games, use the white pikmin Pummel as much as you can and take advantage of their weak hits to start combos!

- Combine these two game styles for a massive damage party!!

- Remember white pikmin are also the Weakest! If you loose one, quickly pluck another one, there are chances that u loose all ur whites with a single opponent attack :S


Wow.. Im terribly sorry for giving this boring and terribly LONG information, i hope this helps anyone out there.. and sorry for taking your time.

I wont continue with this post since its almost 5:00am here, and if i made it any longer, people wont read it.. :S

Enjoy :3

- William

 

[wwwilliam0024]

Can anyone get me The code for making the game Frame by frame???

 

[Jane]

William, i thought that was an amazingly informative post. I would have gladly kept reading if you made it longer lol. I did know and think about some of the stuff you posted, but you organized everything really well.

 

[Sky Pirate]

This may seem like something that everyone already knows, but turn the volume up when you fight Snake. ^^;

 

[Noa.]

William I read most of it. And again morning I found was wrong. Albeit the first couple paragraphs had very basic information for beginners.

 

[Dnyce]

He posts like me back in 08... *sigh* lol. Tis a good thing I guess ^^;

 

[wwwilliam0024]

DOWN-B info / OLIMAR B-PIVOT / SUPER ARMOR

PIVOT

Well most of you have seen that a good snake player, after being juggled in the air, they intend to use B pivots to trick us into falling back on the stage (its quite annoying when they turn around in the air that fast)
and most of the times if you are not expecting it, they will succeed and return to the stage.

What if i told you Olimar can also do these kinds of trick in the air?? Well most of you i think already know it, but sadly his only move that can successfully be pivoted is the Down-b (ive never done it with Side b and neutral B is useless.)

The same way snake does the pivot to trick us, we can do it right back, EXAMPLE:

Lets say he got to Utilt you in the air its kind of annoying going back to the ground, specially in small stages, because olimar tends to have very predictable dodges, and most of his Air moves dont really show defense if the opponent is Below you.

So where ever you see the snake coming after you, you continue your movement and all of a sudden DOWN-B pivot, it should move you decent enough to get away or at least fall into a platform fast.

These are things i do/have done with the pivot:

- Move away from the opponent
- If sent flying to a direction, i have successfully Pivoted to the edge. (it was so awesome and unbelievable)
- Pivot Super armor
- Pivot mind games / approaches

Also if you ever find your self falling into a direct hit, you can do the Pivot in time with the super armor, so you wont get hit. (but i DONT RECOMMEND IT)

You may ask: But cant we just do a normal super armor instead of going through the trouble of pivoting?

Well you see this is a personal note about olimars super armor:


SUPER ARMOR

" Olimars super armor acts kinda like an invincibility frame, but instead of making u invincible, it makes you receive hits without getting knocked back, for example it can stand marths Final smash at any percent, you will receive damage but just wont get knocked"

IMPORTANT!!

WILL NOTE: Some people think that just because they have the timing to do the super armor they can use it when ever they desire, i suggest you DONT USE IT, the Super armor is not an effective defense! it is only a move used as a last resource, If you have very high damage and you are certain that there is nothing you can do, then you may use it, But using the Super armor in battle will only get you killed, lets say you super armor snakes Utilt, but right away you will get punished With a Ftilt or maybe another Utilt, also when people juggle you people intend to Super armor out of the way, But if the person juggling you is a marth, MK or any other character you will fail to escape and succeed to getting punished, Down-b was made to be used as a pikmin modifier to arrange your combos and strategies, dont think that the Little super armor will save you all the time!
Opponents who are AWARE of the super armor will trick you into using it, putting you in terrible situations and forcing you to do it making you think they will attack, but he instead wont attack and wait for the moment to strike you, this can lead to deaths and Gimps at low %.

Remember that in a life struggling situation, like all the wonderful pikmin games, you must count on your pikmin to survive! Super armor may be useful as a LAST RESOURCE, but nothing more.

I hope you changed your way of seeing the Super armor now.

- William

 

[Dnyce]

Super armor is good because it gives you massive frame advantage, as opposed to aerial dodging. Since hitstun is still calculated from the attack used along with cooldown, you are usually free to nair or fair. So if you're fine with trading hits for extra safety or gaining an advantageous position, I would go for it.

 

[wwwilliam0024]

Super armor is good because it gives you massive frame advantage, as opposed to aerial dodging. Since hitstun is still calculated from the attack used along with cooldown, you are usually free to nair or fair. So if you're fine with trading hits for extra safety or gaining an advantageous position, I would go for it.

It all depends on the player, i really dont like using it that much, but against snake its more effective since his attacks are slow. But of course you can always go for risks... i suppose..

 

[Greward]

trading hits against snake shouldnt be a good idea.

dont land with whistle, snake will always be going for the grab when we land. and snake's pivot grab is disjointed enough to grab us 90% of the times.

 

[Dnyce]

trading hits against snake shouldnt be a good idea.

dont land with whistle, snake will always be going for the grab when we land. and snake's pivot grab is disjointed enough to grab us 90% of the times.

Yeah, I was saying in general, there are a lot of solid set-ups from whistle. It's always a game of prediction. There's always circumstances and situations in which one option is favorable over another. If I'm in kill percent with a stock lead on snake, I'll trade whatever I can if it means racking damage on his stock before I die - cause anything snake hits you with will kill haha.

 

[-Vocal-]

Second post sounds like whistle bouncing. Both pretty good posts; not especially new, but still a good summary of information

 

[BOB SAGET!]

I disagree with the last post as well. For example if you're caught in the air against an MK whistle is always the better option compared to airdodge. He'll punish you're airdodges easily.

 

[wwwilliam0024]

I disagree with the last post as well. For example if you're caught in the air against an MK whistle is always the better option compared to airdodge. He'll punish you're airdodges easily.

No.

Due to metaknights incredible gayness, he will always punish you...

Look at it this way:

-MK is uair stringing you, you dodge, he will Dair right away and punish.

-MK is uair stringing you, you whistle, take the damamge of the Uair, and he will Dair either way.

OF course whistling sometimes is better than dodging, but its just a matter of situation.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

One thing you have wrong is that Purples cannot start a legit dthrow combo. It's not because of their knockback, but because of their hitstun. I can go into a more indepth explanation for how hitstun changes with percentages, but basically, purple dthrow has just as much hitstun as we do lag, and we're not able to even start our fair before our opponent is able to air dodge.

If I can get the code for frame data together, I'll send it to you. I'll try to do that later tonight.

 

[wwwilliam0024]

One thing you have wrong is that Purples cannot start a legit dthrow combo. It's not because of their knockback, but because of their hitstun. I can go into a more indepth explanation for how hitstun changes with percentages, but basically, purple dthrow has just as much hitstun as we do lag, and we're not able to even start our fair before our opponent is able to air dodge.

If I can get the code for frame data together, I'll send it to you. I'll try to do that later tonight.

Yes you can, you can start the Dthrow combo with any pikmin from 0%, you should try it, but you must be very precise!

 

[Dnyce]

purple uthrow to fair is more guaranteed at zero iirc, could be wrong though

 

[wwwilliam0024]

Im almost 100% sure.

Down throw to Nair is possible with every pikmin on 0%

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I have tried it, and I have tested the frame data on it personally. Dthrow to fair or usmash is not a legit combo from a purple pikmin. They can air dodge it. You may be able to nair because it'll eat their air dodge, but there is so little hitstun on a purple dthrow at any percent that you are not able to act in time to hit them. I promise.

Frame 1: Input for Dthrow starts
Frame 15: Hitbox 1 makes contact with opponent
Frame 16: First frame of hitlag begins
Frame 19: Last frame of hitlag
Frame 35: Last frame of lag on Olimar
Frame 36: Last frame of Hitstun on Opponent
Frame 36: Olimar is able to jump
Frame 37: Opponent is able to air dodge
Frame 41: Olimar is able to perform an aerial after jumping.

 

[-Vocal-]

Guess that settles that, nice work Hilt. Are you going to be posting a thread with all of this hitstun info any time soon?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I'm going to do some more work on it tonight. The initial release of the thread is basically just me getting things started and giving me the drive to get all of it done, and see who all is willing to help me out (it would really help if I could get some sort of team going, haha). I don't have all of Olimar's hitstun data collected, just dthrow, usmash, and if I can find it, fair. But I may have lost the text document, in which case I'll be mad...

I did dair but I'll have to redo it. I'll get working on it tonight. Getting more people to help would be great, considering Olimar has, literally, five times as much hitstun, hitlag, and shield stun data to collect than just about any other character.

 

[-Vocal-]

I'm going to do some more work on it tonight. The initial release of the thread is basically just me getting things started and giving me the drive to get all of it done, and see who all is willing to help me out (it would really help if I could get some sort of team going, haha). I don't have all of Olimar's hitstun data collected, just dthrow, usmash, and if I can find it, fair. But I may have lost the text document, in which case I'll be mad...

I did dair but I'll have to redo it. I'll get working on it tonight. Getting more people to help would be great, considering Olimar has, literally, 5 times as much hitstun, hitlag, and shield stun data to collect than any other character.

Sweet ICs can be put on hold for the time being; I think this stuff is just a little bit more important since it's universal

 

[wwwilliam0024]

Way to go hilt, i tried using the code, but it only disabled my START/PAUSE button D:

any help?