Matchup Discussion: Pikachu

[[FBC] ESAM]

Lol I was the only one on my **** sir.

**** Diddy Kong but hopefully I'll play better than at Dallas where I SUICIDED WHEN I WAS WINNING against Gnes.

 

[Omari]

@Leaf : You alright okay man (you said you hate posting in MU threads) because you're contradicting yourself (you're posting in MU threads anyway which makes me think you love doing it) in two areas. You'd like people to talk about the MU but yet you're hyping Pound V up as well (we all are & want to). I'm not acting like my **** don't stink because it does

Spoiler

(if not as much (bad), probably worse)

bro. Loosen up a little rather than keep tight (IMO), we're all here to chill & have fun. BTW: My fault for not giving credit to you (great reads).

@ESAM : I welcome you (& all members) to discuss several important topics at the Mario boards (especially if they can support what they spit).

@Inferno : Thanks for your input as well, really appreciate it. I thought we were more concern with increasing the Mario rep+ at tournaments? I know I care,

Spoiler

(I'm doing my part influencing fellow smashers to increasingly use the pudgy plumber)

but how about you?


Now let's get this **** hype!!! IMO, needs more ...

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You underline and bold so often O.o

 

[Inferno3044]

I have punished mario Bair with running u-smash OOS.

Find me and I'll play :D

Was it a well spaced bair? Retreated bair?

Lol I was the only one on my **** sir.

**** Diddy Kong but hopefully I'll play better than at Dallas where I SUICIDED WHEN I WAS WINNING against Gnes.

Diddy Kong is so gay.

@Leaf : You alright okay man (you said you hate posting in MU threads) because you're contradicting yourself (you're posting in MU threads anyway which makes me think you love doing it) in two areas. You'd like people to talk about the MU but yet you're hyping Pound V up as well (we all are & want to). I'm not acting like my **** don't stink because it does

Spoiler

(if not as much (bad), probably worse)

bro. Loosen up a little rather than keep tight (IMO), we're all here to chill & have fun. BTW: My fault for not giving credit to you (great reads).

@ESAM : I welcome you (& all members) to discuss several important topics at the Mario boards (especially if they can support what they spit).

@Inferno : Thanks for your input as well, really appreciate it. I thought we were more concern with increasing the Mario rep+ at tournaments? I know I care,

Spoiler

(I'm doing my part influencing fellow smashers to increasingly use the pudgy plumber)

but how about you?


Now let's get this **** hype!!! IMO, needs more ...

The number of Mario players doesn't matter to me. It's the skill. I would much rather see 2 nationally skilled Mario's than 2000 scrubs.

Anyways about the MU: I think it's even. Nothing really seems like crucial advantages. Mario can beat Pikachu's campiness and doesn't get CG'd, but he is a low tier character and Pikachu can win without camping or CGs.

Anyone wanna give stage advice? I'm thinking Pikachu would do better on FD but honestly I'm guessing.

 

[Omari]

@ESAM: Helps me review, revise & understand what I'm talking about. BTW: You forgot italicize o.O?

@Inferno: That's why you help your fellow Mario mains out (teach, like myself). Granted, I'm concern about my Mario's skill but that would be selfish of me meaning that I wouldn't improve in the long run (mainly because people think differently; There may be something that another smasher uses to his/her advantage that I (you) don't). Even though I'm stubborn, I do work on being open & negotiable.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I'll do pros and cons for Pikachu, and you can just reverse them to make it pros/cons for Mario

+Pikachu outspeeds mario
+Pikachu, for the most part, outspaces mario (Our spacing move beats your spacing moves [not counting either of our F-smashes, but I think Pika's has more range])
+Pikachu kills way easier
+Pikachu has more consistent, better combos.
+Yellow > Red
+Our recovery is vastly superior
+Our edgeguarding is better

-Cape can be effective on Pikachu if the Mario predicts correctly
-Our camp game is shut down due to cape, although this is only a minor hindrance

Um....I think that is it.

 

[Omari]

+Yellow > Red

Wow, that was a good laugh but did you know Mario wears blue & yellow? ?

If we're going to use ESAM's color logic then why not have fun with it? So in that case, Blue > Yellow > Red. GGs.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Well Bandanas > Hats so

 

[Omari]

Well Bandanas > Hats so

That would make sense if Pikachu didn't wear Ash's hat (Red costume?). This is fun...

 

[JuxtaposeX]

We don't get shut down by our master's balls.

 

[Chuee]

Well Bandanas > Hats so

Overalls > Naked rat

 

[Omari]

vs Pros & Cons (Mario):

Pros:
+Better camp-game
+Front Throw>Shutter Step Front Smash (angled straight) ensures us free 26% damage from 0%
+Better Front Smash
+Neutral Air (n-air)>Pikachu's QA (& your safe option IMO)
+Cape>Electric Shenanigans
+Spaced Back Airs (b-airs) can wall effectively
+F.L.U.D.D.>Pikachu's front special
+Pikachu dies earlier (due to it's (

Spoiler

IDKWTF it is...

) weight)
+Fire ball manipulation ( has the power control the yellow rat)

Cons:
-Slower speed
-Worse ground-game (fixed)
-HORRIBLE DOWN TILTS!!! <--iSalt.
-Slightly bad air-game
-Decent recovery for a "Jump-man"...Pikachu has better recovery (much) than Mario...


Revising Cons ATM (will edit soon).

 

[Inferno3044]

I wanna get experience in the MU. Experience tends to really help me out about how I wanna play

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Lol you do not have a better ground game, no way in hell.

Pikachu's tilts are ridiculouussssss

F-tilt is good and comes out in 5 frames, d-tilt is amazing and comes out in 8, D-smash the same as D-tilt, and jab, which is stupid good, comes out in 2.

 

[Inferno3044]

Lol you do not have a better ground game, no way in hell.

Pikachu's tilts are ridiculouussssss

F-tilt is good and comes out in 5 frames, d-tilt is amazing and comes out in 8, D-smash the same as D-tilt, and jab, which is stupid good, comes out in 2.

This. Maybe Mario has a better air game. MAYBE (probably around even). No way Mario has a better ground game

 

[Omari]

Lol you do not have a better ground game, no way in hell.

Pikachu's tilts are ridiculouussssss

F-tilt is good and comes out in 5 frames, d-tilt is amazing and comes out in 8, D-smash the same as D-tilt, and jab, which is stupid good, comes out in 2.

Well I figured it'd be better if Mario stays grounded rather than challenge Pikachu airborne.

BTW: Mario's Up Tilt (u-tilt) comes out frame 5 (fixed), Front Tilt (f-tilt) can be used to keep Pikachu at bay (frame 5 as well) & our jab comes out frame 2 as well (not to forget that we have the auto-jab feature). Our Neutral Air (n-air) hits on frame 3 as an effective OoS option (although we can't gimp Pikachu as simple as the rest of the roster). Regarding our Down Smash (d-smash) which hits on frame 5 (same as Meta Knight), I'd think that's be better since you can't DI out of it while hit (that's just my opinion).

My fault for the mistake so I'll eat that but do you think we should challenge in the air or on the ground?

 

[Matt07]

It's all about Goggled-Evolved-Pichu.

 

[Leaf.]

@Leaf : You alright okay man (you said you hate posting in MU threads) because you're contradicting yourself (you're posting in MU threads anyway which makes me think you love doing it) in two areas. You'd like people to talk about the MU but yet you're hyping Pound V up as well (we all are & want to). I'm not acting like my **** don't stink because it does

Spoiler

(if not as much (bad), probably worse)

bro. Loosen up a little rather than keep tight (IMO), we're all here to chill & have fun. BTW: My fault for not giving credit to you (great reads).

Hate doing it and not doing it are two things, but I won't lie. I don't hate posting in MU threads, I just hate ESAM.
ALL the pikas secretly do, so don't tell him.

...I don't have great reads. Just average common knowledge.
You can ignore me.

Well Bandanas > Hats so

Goggles > Bandanas so

+Front Throw>Shutter Step Front Smash (angled straight) ensures us free 26% damage from 0%

We basically have almost the same thing with an Fthrow>Usmash or Dthrow>Nair, except ours works past 0%. It won't go as long as normal because the fast N-air mario has, but I'm pretty sure it works.

It's all about Goggled-Evolved-Pichu.

Best friend.

Still didn't think about stages, how good is Mario with platforms? I may perfer a flatter stage in this but I don't really know.

 

[fromundaman]

Can't think of much for the MU that hasn't already been said. However...

2. Pikachu is in fact better at surviving than Mario but I'm working on Mario's survivability during my spare time. Mainly to increase his overall status.

A little late, but no way in hell. Honestly, Mario survives more than most other characters if you can DI well and don't get gimped.



As for stages, Mario does quite well with platforms IMO, though I think Pika does too? I've only done this MU in friendlies with a ex-Pika secondary, but in my experience SV and Lylat were some of the better neutrals to take him to.

 

[Inferno3044]

Hate doing it and not doing it are two things, but I won't lie. I don't hate posting in MU threads, I just hate ESAM.
ALL the pikas secretly do, so don't tell him.

Is it because he's the only one that's been successful recently?

 

[JuxtaposeX]

I think its because ESAM is giving away all of Pika's secrets lol

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Is there any recent Mario vs Pika footage? Matador might be coming over today so I can record a few matches and have them up soon.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Hi Luckay!

 

[Luigisama]

Stages
good for mario:
Battle field: his fireballs can be used in a variety of different ways on the platforms.
smashville: He has a lot of room to camp.
Delfino plaza: since most of Mario's smashes send a char horizontal this stage can help him get kills on pika and well timed up b near the side of the stage can score a kill for mario.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

O hai juxtapose! I don't even know you but I like your style.

 

[Juushichi]

I've been gayed by one of Roller's tjolts for a gimp but that's the only time I can remember getting gimped by a Pika before. It's kind of likewise vs a good pika though. I've never gimped a good one either.

Everything considered, it's a fun and even MU, IMO. By the way, Leaf and Esam. What are typical Pika CP's? What do you think you would ban vs Mario?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Fludding QA looks funny, lol.

Pikachu has a small but noticable advantage in this MU.

Without much experience mario can do some pretty heavy damage in this MU. But in the end mario suffers from similar issues to luigi; he gets outspaced and can't camp well enough to get around pikas mobility. I do not recommend trying to play overly campy and never approaching. While it might be better then approaching too much, it doesnt completely wall out pika and one good read can lead to a fair amount of damage. Mixing it up and not being too predictable is really important for mario in this MU, and I feel like his camping alone isnt capable of doing that. That being said dont be reckless with approaches.

Try to edgeguard pika, but dont let it ruin your day if you dont get much. Hes pretty much capable of getting to the ledge against any character without taking damage when a recovery plan is carefully thought out, but that shouldnt mean you dont challange it and watch out for cape/flood/punishment opportunities if the pika becomes careless or predictable.

Last be careful about caping thunder. I believe out of hitstun airdodge is the quickest move, but you should time it right. If you can cape go for it, but dont die over it, lol.

It's you! The Truth! <3

This guy knows what he's talking about. I know from playing him in person that his Pikachu is legit.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I would ban Brinstar just because Brinstar is terrible for Pikachu

We like CPing flat stages and dynamic stages. My common CPs are FD, Pictochat, SV, RC, Frigate, and PS1.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Why is Brinstar terrible for Pikachu? Sure it's one of Mario's best stages and worth banning against Mario if you're not Metaknight, but I don't see why it's outright terrible for Pikachu...a character that would definitely call Brinstar terrible would be someone like Falco or Ganon lol (yes, Brinstar is terrible for Ganon. Don't let "free" Ganoncides fool you, they're not really viable).

 

[JuxtaposeX]

O hai juxtapose! I don't even know you but I like your style.

I lurk the Pit boards, so I've seen you around

 

[Omari]

@Leaf: There's no reason to hate ESAM

Spoiler

(even though Mario>>>>>Pikachu, Red>>>>>Yellow & Blue>>>>>>>>>>Yellow...jus sayin'......)

& he's mad chill IRL. You're welcome (IMO) here just as much as any other Pikachu main is. Don't feel limited to spit knowledge. No reason to ignore you, yet.

Honestly, I wouldn't challenge Mario's n-air (depending on situation, which is most likely to favor Mario anyway). The fastest air to hit (& how can you argue with frame 3?).

 

[Leaf.]

@Leaf: There's no reason to hate ESAM

Spoiler

(even though Mario>>>>>Pikachu, Red>>>>>Yellow & Blue>>>>>>>>>>Yellow...jus sayin'......)

& he's mad chill IRL. You're welcome (IMO) here just as much as any other Pikachu main is. Don't feel limited to spit knowledge. No reason to ignore you, yet.

Honestly, I wouldn't challenge Mario's n-air (depending on situation, which is most likely to favor Mario anyway). The fastest air to hit (& how can you argue with frame 3?).

Nah, we all hate ESAM. You aren't a pika if you like him.
But he's alright irl. Too busy counting his MLG winnings for us to hang out though.

A lot of characters wouldn't expect it if their character has a quick move to get out of the fthrow combo, but we can even get Marth with his 1 frame move with a fthrow>usmash at the proper percents. We just haven't done the exact percents on how far it works to everyone.

Banning I agree with ESAM. Ban brinstar, even though some of the things that make the stage bad for pika are semi-canceled out by Mario already (chaingrabs and jolts) the platform placement just really would screw us up.

I'd take to Frigate, Rainbow, Halberd, maybe PS2, pretty much any stage with a good gimmick.

 

[Juushichi]

Hm. Next time I see Roller I'm gonna see if we can do some matches on Cruise. I think I'm good on just about every other stage though.

 

[Inferno3044]

Nah, we all hate ESAM. You aren't a pika if you like him.
But he's alright irl. Too busy counting his MLG winnings for us to hang out though.

A lot of characters wouldn't expect it if their character has a quick move to get out of the fthrow combo, but we can even get Marth with his 1 frame move with a fthrow>usmash at the proper percents. We just haven't done the exact percents on how far it works to everyone.

Banning I agree with ESAM. Ban brinstar, even though some of the things that make the stage bad for pika are semi-canceled out by Mario already (chaingrabs and jolts) the platform placement just really would screw us up.

I'd take to Frigate, Rainbow, Halberd, maybe PS2, pretty much any stage with a good gimmick.

I can see Pikachu being able to do Fthrow > Usmash at low percents.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

It is legit against every character at 0 (Aside from Marth, we have to get him to 10%)

We also get D-throw nair from probably around 35-60% fresh, but more if we do it multiple times.

 

[Omari]

@ESAM: Life's funny isn't it? Can't wait to play you at *Pound* 5 bro!!! This will be mad fun so let's get many hype sets

Spoiler

(who says we can't MM?)

in.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I'll **** you.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

inb4alotofplayersseesrapestains

 

[Inferno3044]

Inb4ESAMloses

 

[Matador]

I'll **** you.

Dat unwavering confidence