Matchup Discussion: Metaknight

[Inferno3044]

Come to NJ. We have tons of MK mains here

 

[vato_break]

Shuttleloop is actually not safe alot of the time. You prolly know, but incase u don't, a shielded shuttleloop is a free aerial, especially powershielded. It's one of those things I'm trying to start punishing on reflex now.

Also, Boss told me awhile back that if you DI into nado as soon as it starts, you pop right out. Dunno if this was widely known, but it was news to me.

And yeah, ftilt is amazing vs MK.

Not all the time, matador. You have to make sure you can hit mk in time because he can either Glide attack you/cancel your aerial(though if you dair, you will hit him for sure) or he can cancel the glide. If he cancels and you went for an aerial you are in a really bad position so be smart about punishing his Grounded Shuttle loop.

Here's a few things i know on this matchup:

Metaknight KINDA is weak if you are below him, if you see him dair camping you can hit him with an upB. Pay attention to how mk lands, alot of the time mks like to dair camp into nado so DO NOT SHEILD ALOT unless you like getting sheild poked. Don't sit in your sheild agianst metaknight REACT to him.

If you are close to mk do NOT Sh fireball unless you hit the top of mk. He can nado right through your fireball and you really can't do anything.

Always charge fludd if you can. It helps; keep metaknight away, escape juggles, and repels nado.

You want to play a stage control kind of game, this is where mario is really strong against metaknight. Metaknights options are much more limited if he has too land/get back on stage. Punish the way mk gets back on stage, there's many different ways he will try to get back on but, try your best to punish ahyway he does, mario has all the tools to punish metaknight. When mk is recovering, unless mk recovers high use FH/DJ fireballs to pressure him.

Dealing with tornado, if mk is chasing you with nado you can away and piviot grab or use a reverse piviot cape. You can also use fludd and fludd will push nado up and over you. Sometimes you can crouch undernado. also use jumps to get away from nado, the peak of bair and dair will also break nado. Nado can also be caped/fsmashed but, this requires tight spacing.

Dealing with tilts, if mk likes to walk up to you and tilt you can either use grounded fireballs/sh fireballs to slow him down and if you see him sheilding alot you can go for a grab. If mk ftilts your sheild you can spot dodge ftilt2 and 3 if he does them slow enough and then punish with a move of your choosing. Foward smash works sometimes i guess. remeber if all three tilts hit your sheild you can punish mk, ftilts had alot of cooldown. Dtilt though is pretty gay, powersheild and punish, that is the only way to deal with this one i think. if you can, walk away and pivot fireball.

If you are getting juggled sometimes it better to go for the ledge rather than landing on stage sometimes. Metaknight can **** marios landings very hard especially if you have penalty lag. Another thing use Wavebounced/B-reveraled fireballs, cape and fludd to escape juggles. Remember metaknight only has 5 jumps so if you can stall long enough he might not be able to hit you. Do not Air dodge! Depending on your percent sometimes it is better to just get hit by another upair that does 5%? then to get hit by a sweetspotted nair that does 17%, make smart choices!

Honestly i would never go mario vs. a metaknight in a serious set, it's recommended that you pick up a better character for this matchup but, if your one of those "i will never use a higher tier, mario ftw!" kind of people then good luck to you.

 

[Matador]

Thanks for the tips Vato, really thorough.

I always assumed that shuttle loop had built-in lag that was punishable by aerial if you shield it...Didn't know MK could just cancel it immediately...

Silly me, huh?

 

[vato_break]

you can still punsih metaknight though! Sheild->run where he lands when he cancels->punish

 

[A2ZOMG]

Lol at A2 for thinking that just knowing things that can possibly work makes you good and thinking that Nairo vs. Anti @ losers finals is due to a bad bracket.

Good job being horrible at taking things in the right context.

Shuttle Loop is gay. It's basically safe no matter what.

You can't base things assuming your opponent is bad.

Nado is gay. Nothing new.

Killing is pretty hard for Mario in general. You either have to do something fairly risky or punish a mistake assuming the opponent knows what to do against Mario. Since MK doesn't need to take much risk, it's hard to put him in a spot where he will die.

Btw A2, Mario gets destroyed by MK. No Fsmash shenanigans will help you or should even work. They can basically spam Shuttle Loop and we can't do ****. As someone who is in MK central you can take my word. Start playing good people.

Shuttle Loop is only gay as an OOS option. It's pretty unsafe on block.

And if the matchup is horrible, you might as well assume that your opponent is bad when looking for options. Or you pick a different character. In order for Mario to win against MK, the MK has to be afraid of him. You can't win with your standard strategies unless he feels that they are dangerous to challenge. This is one reason why if you're going to tackle this matchup with Mario, you really should know how to implement F-smash. Probably the reason why Nairo played poorly against Anti's Mario was as simple as the fact he was playing against a player with the name "Anti". Psychological edge is what wins this matchup for Mario.

Killing with Mario is easy. Dealing damage with Mario is the hard part. This is especially true against Metaknight. Landing a random KO move against him isn't particularly hard and will probably happen eventually as long as you don't limit your thinking too much. But actually getting the damage necessary to kill him is stupidly hard especially since you don't combo him very well.

Against MKs, I've Up-smashed out of shield in between the hits of any of his tilts. D-smash him when he makes the slightest misstep on close range. F-smash when I see the obvious spaced ground move coming. Sure it requires reads or mistakes, but most of these situations I'm suggesting are not unreasonably risky or out of the question (he'll probably dashgrab you out of shield mainly if your spacing isn't too abysmal). The hard part against MK is implementing your usual damage dealers, which are aerials, fireballs, and grabs is in fact difficult to do, and not rewarding enough.

If MK spams Shuttle Loop, just hit him out if it or alternatively camp more. He sacrifices the option of airdodge after an Up-B, and you can clank with his glide attack safely at minimum, and generally if you actually block the shuttle loop, you can just aerial out of shield. He's only ****** you with it at moments where you can't shield it, such as when he uses it as an OOS option, or for situational anti-airs (although his U-air and Tornado are usually better options for that).

 

[vato_break]

Vato, I'll MM your MK Vs Mario...25$ yo...

I will too...

For like....5$...

Sure thing, if i go to pound lets definitely do it

 

[boss8]

aye no joke ur most important matchups to learn are....

MK
kirby
DDD
marth


IMO mario kinda can fight everyone else pretty solid....those 4 jus seem to shut down mario

being technical is only half the battle...once u've gotten ur techs down you move onto mindgames...

(note) mindgames are basically a trap or trick to get ur opponent to do what you want him to do...EX

(when you slowly walk away from your opponent then turn around and Fsmash him...u obv wanted ur opponent to take down his shield....)

now my insight on MK

MK-prob one of your ABSOLUTE WORST MATCHUPS...but mario does have some gimmicks he can work in...

Pros-projectiles
-gimping ability
-Range
-A A A combo

Cons-
-mk can pretty much take us on the ground OR in the air...
-MK's priority >_>
-he can gimp us also with alot less effort
-he moves ALOT faster
-decent range

things to look for-
-if MK hits ur shield with dair or nair...its a free OOS aerial for mario (if MK is within range)
-dthrow setups (low%)
-your nair cancels his glide attack (after he uses up-b most MK's just use glide attack...just nair it..you have no lag afterwords where as mk is free falling) you can also fludd the shuttle loop or cape it if your brave enough...
-up-b/uair OOS are situational but also come in handy.....
-save your usmash...dsmash and uairs etc will rack up damage alone...
-PLAY ON YOUR FEET AT ALL TIMES!!! <----this is maddd important...
-recover with B reversal fireballs/you have a cape/throw some fireballs while falling...
-keep your spacing nice crisp n smooth
-if u can predict a tornado you may wanna cape it.....if there isnt enough time then usmash it....(LOL MARIO THE WHEATHER MAN)

i think you guys no what to watch out for since its MK just ask me for help anytime....or a2z

 

[Coolwhip]

If mk got you offstage, use fludd (Fully Charge) to push mk back on stage.
Remember to hold the joystick forward so the fludd won't push you back to your own death.
Oh & make sure you have you're mid-air jump ready.

 

[SKidd]

I play quite a few MKs, and,












I get *****. Every time.

 

[boss8]

yea i played m2k for like 3 weeks straight...mk isnt THAT hard anymore...

 

[Coolwhip]

yea i played m2k for like 3 weeks straight...mk isnt THAT hard anymore...

I agree with boss. Metaknight isn't that hard to fight anymore.
Marios just need to learn the mu & the tools that mario can use against mk....
fludd, cape, up-b & fireballz.

 

[boss8]

i mean once u figure out MK its kinda like pre-calc....and not jus full blown calc xD

the DDD's are tryna claim 2011.....O_o

i thought this was mario's year?

 

[Coolwhip]

This will be mario's year boss. Just watch.

<--Will own 2011

 

[Matador]

LOL, **** that!

2011, the year of the Mario!

We all need a new sig to show this...

 

[Calebyte]

I'm on it.

 

[Matador]

Best mod evar, I swear.

 

[Inferno3044]

Boss stepping it up. I agree 100% with MK, Marth, and D3 being a pain but Kirby? I don't know what's so bad about it. Might be because I've never played against a good Kirby.

 

[boss8]

play chudat then come talk to me.......

 

[steep]

In case you are a visual learner, here's a video of Boss vs. Sin that shows a lot of the points that Boss mentioned earlier....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlYzdfzdJiI&feature=related

 

[Juushichi]

Kirby literally beats most of what Mario can do and his float really helps keep away from us.

Notice in general how we struggle against the dreamland trio. All for different reasons, though. Oh yeah, Kirby with Mario hat makes this MU worse by at least a solid number.

Not that it'll happen a ton, but it seriously does.

 

[Calebyte]

Let's keep this thread on topic please. If you're interested in discussing another matchup, say so in the MU Index.

 

[Famous]

play chudat then come talk to me.......

I did..then he started using IC's against me </3

Sorry, I have no tips on beating MK except to...stay 10 steps ahead of the *****...

 

[Omari]

i mean once u figure out MK its kinda like pre-calc....and not jus full blown calc xD

the DDD's are tryna claim 2011.....O_o

i thought this was mario's year?

Every year is Mario's year, come on Boss I thought you knew this already.