Well if BO X7 plays with me I'll tell you my insight...at least from my experience with his Mario and my Ike.
You're definitely in for a treat. Bo's no joke.
Although I'm typing this out as I wait for him to join the room. On paper it seems to go pretty even, Mario has stuff going for him. F.L.U.D.D., Cape (though I try not to fall for that kind of stuff, a nice juggling game; especially with Ike on the heavier side, etc.
It's not really a matter of falling for it. Mario will Fludd Ike during his upB before he begins to come down and when he can't grab the edge or do much of anything. If Fludd is charged and you're in range, there's little you can do to stop this. My advice would be to switch it up as best as you can with QD or doing Aether higher to stop the Fludd since the last hits of aether with the sword outstretched cancel out Fludd.
However Mario might have a hard time killing Ike if he isn't going for gimp kills. Ike also does have some speedy moves, and all of his attacks; slow and fast, have killing potential when fresh. If Mario makes one mistake it could cost him the Stock.
Not really. It won't be easy, no doubt, but Fsmash has quite a bit of range and power especially if it's not diminished. Also, don't forget about Dsmash which can easily knock Ike offstage and can be done from jab cancel and Usmash which kills it decent percents as well undiminished.
Let me just say that Ike pretty much edges out Mario on the ground thanks to the Jab combo and he beats out Mario in the air with the Fair/Nair. It's not really a terrible match-up for Mario, though. I used to think it was something like 6/4 Ike's favor but I guess it could easily be something like 5.5/4.5.
Keep in mind that Mario's jab game isn't too far behind either. Our grab game is also a big plus in this matchup because of followups from Fthrow and Dthrow. Our Utilt is also an awesome combo starter/renewer.
The main thing Mario has in this match-up (And the only thing that really makes him appealing)
Well ouch
is the fact that he can gimp Ike if he's not careful. Cape can get Ike going to the stage offguard, though you might eat a Fair for your troubles. Fludd is pretty cool, but if Ike recovers low enough or decides to use Quick Draw for a change you'll be hard pressed to counter that. He also has combo ability at low percents, so that helps.
Fludd also slows down QD and keeps him in the air long enough to cape him offstage. Both of Ike's recovery options are relatively easy to take care of, but you have to be ready for them. The ideal situation is to QD over Mario or on the ledge as he's waiting for the Aether or Aether as he's waiting for QD.
Also keep in mind that these aren't Shiek Ftilt combos or mere Utilt chains, these are the ones that Uair, Bair, Utilt, jab, and Dthrow you until you manage to gain some space, particularly easy to land on Ike because of his fallspeed.
At the same time, it's rather hard to not get KOed by Ike really early, so I'd generally watch out for that. On the flip side, Ike isn't really some heavy beast and isn't terribly hard to hit with Mario's Forward Smash, though a whiffed attempted may lead to you dying to an Ftilt or something.
Indeed
The match as a whole is pretty close to even, which is usually the case with characters that are complete opposites.
I've always found these types of matches to be as far apart as their respective characteristics are from each other. But yeah, pretty even...except I'm leaning toward adv Mario because he can combo well, has an okay time approaching, and the good gimping potential. And when the fight comes to outright killing and spacing, Mario can hold his own at that as well.
I would dare to say Ike cannot play defensively, as he has no projectiles and his ledge camping sucks, so he’ll always be close to his opponent. He’ll be zooning of course, because that’s the smart way to engage his opponents.
Still, that zoning game is the kind of playstyle that Mario can't really get around because of range. It's still a defensive playstyle because it's stopping our attack.
In this matchup, I believe that Mario will be at disadvantage in terms of approaching because the jab will make approaching really hard in the ground and in the air Mario should face something similar but with retreating Fairs and Nairs.
I'd agree with you here if fireballs didn't work so well. Even though I don't make this a habit, I can often powershield the Fair and make it in to start a combo and keep it going.
So, in terms of gimping, I’ve never experienced problems dealing with F.L.U.D.D.; just with the cape. The F.L.U.D.D. can be avoided by airdodging at the right time and/or spacing the UpB correctly, the cape can be avoided with reverse Aether.
There's no "airdodging at the right time" because Fludd is done when you can't airdodge; during your upB while you're spinning in the air. During that time, Fludd pushes you far enough from the edge that everytime you won't be able to grab it.
There's no "spacing the upB" either because even if you're right above the edge, high above the stage, or practically touching the ledge, Fludd consistently pushes your upB so far during a time where you can't react that there's no way that you can grab the ledge. The only way that Fludd won't reach you is if you're under the stage where you won't reach either.
I would think that Marios would want to approach with Fireballs and Nairs, be them activated on the first frames or sex-kicked, it seems like a decent approach. Not unless Mario would want to try and risk getting Dair shielded and countered via grabs/jabs.
These didn't work at all while I was fighting Rykoshet because his spacing was impeccable. The only safe approach was following behind fireballs and going from there to punish the hitstun.
SHDair usually lands behind you or spaces away from you where you can't shieldgrab. It also autocancels so punishing ending lag really wouldn't be a problem either. The problem is that Ike's jab outprioritizes Dair and Nair IIRC, and Ike's SHNair, which beats both, can be combo'd from and rack up unnecessary damage.
I wonder how Mario could do as for getting back offstage if he is knocked off. Like Marth, Mario can stale with his Cape, aand we all know how floaty Ike is and will have to eventually come back to the stage himself before he continues anymore with offstage kill attempts, although Ike has 1/2 the distance of FD on his Fair, so it probably seems easier said for Mario to get back on stage than it is done.
Well, Mario also has fireballs to help his approach and a high priority upB with invinicbility frames at the beginning; very similar to Marth's.
I haven't been able to try this, but I think Mario's Fludd is capable of pushing Ike back onstage if he's not doing his Fair.
Edit: Bo is easier to contact and get with online since Boss doesn't have a Wii. I'd play as well if my disc wasn't so silly.
Mario approaching with aerials should only work if Ike messes up. Even with Bair or Nair or w/e, Ike's aerials vastly outrange ours and can easily outspace us. Things like that are what you're looking to punish.
I find a well-spaced Fair to be a very big problem to deal with, Hero. My ledge options haven't really been that big an issue, even though it's definitely not a good position. Ike's Fair has so much range that even if we powershield it, we barely have enough time to get inside before he can jab us and kick us back out. It kills all other approach methods than fireballs.
I also forgot about our OOS options...is Ike affected by FIHL?
I'm still saying 55:45 Mario btw. That or even.
