MATCH UPS....throw anything you got.....

[Matt07]

Alright here's the summary of match-up's, it's not finalized yet, I need a few more opinions, then I will submit it to DangR's Match-up Thread.

Here's the outline;
Character
Mario:Opponent

MK
20:80

G&W
30:70

Marth
35:65

Snake
40:60

Ice Climbers
45:55

Falco
45:55

Lucas
40:60

Wolf
40:60

Wario
40:60

Zelda
55:45?

Peach
50:50

Diddy Kong
40:60

ZSS
55:45?

Olimar
40:60

PT (Total)
50:50?

DK
50:50

Pikachu
50:50

Samus
50:50

Sonic
55:45

Kirby
45:55

 

[Matador]

How'd Pika get to 40:60 and how'd DK get to our favor? ICs is 30:70 and I don't think we've even done Zelda or Falco.

 

[Matt07]

How'd Pika get to 40:60 and how'd DK get to our favor? ICs is 30:70 and I don't think we've even done Zelda or Falco.

I just pulled this out of my head some of them I remembered. Umm I think DK should be switched around, what's your thought on Pikachu? I will edit IC's.

I'm pretty sure we did Zelda and Falco.

 

[BoTastic!]

we agreed that DK and Pikachu are even with Mario

 

[Matt07]

we agreed that DK and Pikachu are even with Mario

Thanks for the info. Updated.

 

[HeroMystic]

weird seeing Mario have so many even matches.

And Snake is just as hard as MK and G&W?

 

[Matt07]

weird seeing Mario have so many even matches.

And Snake is just as hard as MK and G&W?

Uuh, I dunno , I just pulled stuff outta my head, this isn't finalized, yet. So umm should Snake be 40:60 Snake's favour?

 

[HeroMystic]

We wreck Snake in the air honestly. Although his N-air is a huge pain, it's easily SDIed out of and it's bad to use on stage in the first place. 60:40 seems reasonable, especially compared to MK and GandW.

And I honestly don't think MK and G&W are on the same caliber. One is harder than the other.

 

[hippiedude92]

[QU4OTE=Matt07;5604458]Alright here's the summary of match-up's, it's not finalized yet, I need a few more opinions, then I will submit it to DangR's Match-up Thread.

Here's the outline;
Character
Mario:Opponent

MK
30:70

G&W
30:70

Marth
35:65

Snake
30:70

Ice Climbers
30:70 45:55

Falco
40:60 45:55

Lucas
55:45? 40:60


Wolf
40:60

Wario
40:60

Zelda
55:45?

Peach
50:50

Diddy Kong
40:60

ZSS
55:45?

Olimar
40:60

PT (Total)
50:50?

DK
50:50 40:60

Pikachu
50:50

Samus
50:50

Sonic
55:45

Kirby
45:55[/QUOTE]

Thats i think

 

[Matt07]

Updated, 20:80 against MK good? Thanks for input guys, updated some of them, now I have different results from on the same character so I will just leave them as they are until we get a general consensus

 

[BoTastic!]

Hippie.. Mario and DK are even.

 

[Ryos4]

In my opinion, pit has a slight advantage.

For pit hes got the recovery over mario, 3 jumps, glide, and WoI. However, easily gimpped by marios fireballs if it ever gets to WoI. But in the same way, mario is gimped by pit in many cases. Wing refresh, mirror shield, and arrows. Mario's 2 main gimps cape and fludd, are nearly useless against pit. Unless pit has already been gimped, and can be used to further gimp pit.

Pit has better offstage capabilities then mario. Because of his ability to recover.

Pits arrows and reflector can beat marios long range game.

Meele, pits ftilt might be the only thing that outranges all of marios attacks, maybe not fsmash though. Pits swords also give him supposide priority, but i dont ever see it helping me. lol. mario has better aerial attacks then pit. besides that of dair, thats kinda junk for the most part as far as i can tell. But his uair, bair, and nair are great aerial attacks for mario and he can spike. All 3 of them cancel pretty well and can easily go into dsmashes. Mario's smashes are all better then pits, cepts pits fsmash has more range with the slide he can do. Pits throws will probably never be used to kill, while mario's bthrow can kill.

Marios killing potential is much better then that of pit.

 

[hippiedude92]

Idk, dk and mario don't look even lol. So like is pit gonna be updated or still needs moar discussion?

 

[HeroMystic]

Nah, DK and Mario are even. We wreck him in the air, and he wrecks us on the ground. Our short hop aerials can make up for the ground game, and DK's gayassed b-air can make up for our superb air game.

It's the old school combo vs power in that match-up.

Edit: Hey, saying gayassed screws over the language filter!

 

[Matt07]

Bumping the thread.

 

[Matt07]

Sorry for the double post, but it'll get your attention, and help us out if I missed anything .

I used information out of this thread too come up with the summary, credit goes to the original posters.
Pit

Pros:
+Pit range isn't impressive at all but, he has more range than Mario. (Unless Mario throws out a shutter steped Fsmash)
+Cape outranges all of Pit's aerials
+Smash and tilts are punishable by all of Mario's moves.
+Pit's moves are quite punishable
+Pit isn't too hard to 'gimp' either.
+Pit is really easy to combo and kill.
+Mario's air game is better than Pit's

Cons:
-Pit's Arrows can prove annoying.
-Better priority.
-He has better ground speed.
-Better aerial mobility.
-Pit's F-smash is relaitviely strong if it's fresh.
-Pit's ground game beats Mario's.
-Pit is keeping the pressure.
-Pit's smash attacks come out relatively quick.
-Pit can reverse Mario's Up-B with his shield.
-Disjointed Hitboxes.

Overall Match-up.
50:50? I've seen quite a debate over this.

If I missed anything, or want me to remove anything, let us know .

Well that's three summaries done for today.

 

[PKNintendo]

Nah, DK and Mario are even. We wreck him in the air, and he wrecks us on the ground. Our short hop aerials can make up for the ground game, and DK's gayassed b-air can make up for our superb air game.

It's the old school combo vs power in that match-up.

Edit: Hey, saying gayassed screws over the language filter!

You do not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqgUgRzAP74

DK bair is extremly versatile and good as you can see. But thats not it, he pressured Wario all to well, and Wario (In many peoples opinion) is the best aerial fighter in the game.

Spoiler

Long story short, I don't know about the matchup, but Mario doesn't wreck DK in the air

 

[Matt07]

I agree for the most part with your post PKNintendo, but I think Mario's u-air, and d-air totally wreck Donkey Kong. We can combo him amazingly well with up air, and it comes out so swift if he air dodges, we have another one coming.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

You do not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqgUgRzAP74

DK bair is extremly versatile and good as you can see. But thats not it, he pressured Wario all to well, and Wario (In many peoples opinion) is the best aerial fighter in the game.

Spoiler

Long story short, I don't know about the matchup, but Mario doesn't wreck DK in the air

Wario isn't the best aerial fighter...he has the best aerial mobility but in the air most of his moves are pretty out ranged by everything

 

[PKNintendo]

Wario isn't the best aerial fighter...he has the best aerial mobility but in the air most of his moves are pretty out ranged by everything

XD.


You may know your **** about Mario, but you NOTHING about Wario.
I can spend hours explaining Wario's aerial prowess but here some tips for you.

DI to approach and retreat with aerials, no one else can do that. Down air get's me lifted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcPYztywqM

His uair is extremely powerful for it's speed, and his bair is great baiting tool. Wario fair is a great combo starter too.

It doesn't matter if Wario has less range than most characters, frankly his aerial fighting is second to none. (or G&W...)

Spoiler

Frankly, your an idiot

 

[HeroMystic]

PKNintendo, your post actually proves nothing. In fact, all you did was support my post, because I clearly stated that DK's B-air is what makes up for Mario's superb aerial game.

Read before posting please.

 

[boss8]

so who's next??? i wil update the first pg...

 

[PKNintendo]

PKNintendo, your post actually proves nothing. In fact, all you did was support my post, because I clearly stated that DK's B-air is what makes up for Mario's superb aerial game.

Read before posting please.

Superb? Not so much. Game and Watch, Wario and Peach have a superb air game.

Mario has a ''great aerial game'' not superb.
DK bair is superb. His bair is like an anti air.


Edit:
We do Ness next!

 

[HeroMystic]

so who's next??? i wil update the first pg...

I vote Ike now that Pit's done.

Superb? Not so much. Game and Watch, Wario and Peach have a superb air game.

Mario has a ''great aerial game'' not superb.
DK bair is superb. His bair is like an anti air.

Your attempts to continue the argument when you're actually agreeing with me is dumb.

Either way, it's even.

 

[boss8]

anyone you've seen on the first pg we've already done....pick someone thats not there......

 

[PKNintendo]

I vote Ike now that Pit's done.


Your attempts to continue the argument when you're actually agreeing with me is dumb.

Either way, it's even.

NEVAR.

I don't know, you can ask the DK mains, but their kinda conceited... err... NICE GUYS. Well most of of them. Bottom line, I know little of the matchup, but Mario's aerials aren't godly.

Ness>Ike. Let's-a-go

 

[boss8]

i thought we did ness >_>

 

[PKNintendo]

i thought we did ness >_>

We did? Well do it again!

Edit: Nope, only 10 things on Ness. If we need to do Ness, we do it now.

 

[BoTastic!]

DK's aerial game=Not superb
MK=Superb

And mario does very well against DK in the air
Wario's aerial game<MK's

 

[PKNintendo]

DK's aerial game=Not superb
MK=Superb

And mario does very well against DK in the air
Wario's aerial game<MK's

MK>Wario=G&W e.c.y.

DK aerial game=bad cept for that bair. It makes him in the air.

DK's aerial game=Not superb

(say that to a DK main, they'll pounce on you)

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

XD.


You may know your **** about Mario, but you NOTHING about Wario.
I can spend hours explaining Wario's aerial prowess but here some tips for you.

I have alot of knowledge of the game in general...The fact that I main Mario doesn't mean I don't know alot about every other character...

DI to approach and retreat with aerials, no one else can do that. Down air get's me lifted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcPYztywqM

The ability to move fluidly in the air is pretty nifty...but the fact of the matter is...he has very little range on his aerials...I don't understand what you don't get...I've had a talk with FL's best Wario and he told me Wario's air game is terrible...

His uair is extremely powerful for it's speed, and his bair is great baiting tool. Wario fair is a great combo starter too.

Uair is a good move...his Bair is his overall best aerial and his fair is an ok combo starter...and it has terrible range

It doesn't matter if Wario has less range than most characters, frankly his aerial fighting is second to none. (or G&W...)

Spoiler

Frankly, your an idiot

Range is everything in the air...if attack a has more range than attack b attack a is going to hit...

Get your facts straight kid

PS why use spoiler tags...be a man and just say "Monk I think you're an idiot" cause I'm gunna do the same thing....

you're an idiot


edit: we should discuss....hmmmm....Ike

 

[BoTastic!]

MK>Wario=G&W e.c.y.

DK aerial game=bad cept for that bair. It makes him in the air.

DK's aerial game=Not superb

(say that to a DK main, they'll pounce on you)

Let them pounce then. DK's aerial game is nothin compared to characters like Marth, Mk, Peach, DDD, etc.

 

[boss8]

ok ike it is

 

[Ray/Boshi]

How about observing King Dedede next?

Edit, Ike.

Pro's
Ike's fairly slow.
Recovery is easily thwarted via cape & Fludd.
Very easy to juggle, even easier when he's in the air. Uairs do a # on him.
Bair is really nice for approaching.
Ftilt/Utilt are very handly when on the ground. They come out quickly.
Dair is a very safe approach to use.

Con's
Jab combo is annoying at times. And racks up nice damage.
He's powerful. Can KO you at ridiculously low % if you get hit at the edge of the stage.
His Uair/Nair have a somewhat decieving hitbox.
Quickdraw is very good onstage.
Can use his recovery onstage to sew you up with extra damage.
He can use his Explosion move at really awkward times.
If he's good at perfectshielding, his weak grabs can be annoying at times.

 

[Matador]

You do not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqgUgRzAP74

DK bair is extremly versatile and good as you can see. But thats not it, he pressured Wario all to well, and Wario (In many peoples opinion) is the best aerial fighter in the game.

Spoiler

Long story short, I don't know about the matchup, but Mario doesn't wreck DK in the air

You're thinking a little too linear. Mario ***** ROB and Marth when beneath them because his combos are generally done beneath the opponent. If Wario's presented with the same openings as Mario when he's beneath the opponent, he won't be able to capitalize on the vulnerability as well as Mario because his aerial game is DIFFERENT than Mario's. It may be better, I don't know, but your vid doesn't prove anything. That, and the fact that Mario can approach DK pretty easily with fireballs; possiblity easier than Wario can approach DK.

And Mario does wreck DK in the air...wtf? Mario's aerials flow together too easily and are too much faster than DKs for him not to win in the air. Seriously...wtf?

Prolly not wise to challenge Monk's knowledge of the game either...especially since he's been to tourneys since before your account was made.

 

[HeroMystic]

Con's
Jab combo is annoying at times. And racks up nice damage.

Jab is the #1 reason why he beats Mario's ground game, but I do like to say that if Mario DI's towards Ike during his jabs, especially if he jab cancels, Mario can use Up-B to counter it.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Lol, I hate when he does the full combo. Lately i've been encountering jab canceled Ikes. I'll try that up B though next time. ;P

Thankfully when you spam fireballs, it usually messes Ike up tremendously. (As every projectile character does)

Just pick FD, Orpheon or Smashville on him. And he'l stand no chance. Battlefield is nice also.

At times I find myself getting hit by his charged smashes. I evade slightly wrong. An I get sent flying.

 

[Kinzer]

You'll get no sympathy from the Ike boards!

Hi there, I'm Kinzer! I look forward to discussing the matchup with you guys. and if any of you feel up to it we can do some Online Sparring, as words can noly take you so fr, but practical experience goes a longer way.

 

[HeroMystic]

Up-Smash is a pain. Best thing you can do (especially if you're recovering upward) is disrupt it with a spam of fireballs, or if possible, avoid going into it completely.

The more space Mario has, the better the advantage he has. Therefore, I don't think battlefield should be on Mario's list of counterpicks.

Frigate (awesome since there's one part of the stage he can't ledgegrab onto), FD, Smashville is good, but Jungle Japes and Rainbow Cruise will severely wreck Ike's chances since Mario's air game is much better than Ike's, and Ike's ground game is minimized.

He's not as easy as it sounds though. Ike is a pain when he's defensive (offensive, not so much, not even close). Ike's N-air can lead into the Jab combo (shouldn't worry about this much since retreating fireballs will help), and Ike's F-air severely outranges our aerials.

Ike is very difficult to approach, but once Mario gets him in the air, we got him.

EDIT:

Spoiler

I'm waiting for you, Light

 

[Matador]

Oddly enough, I consider this a pretty close matchup despite the fact that these characters are polar opposites. Ike's range would seem the be the biggest problem on the surface...but his jab game is what will break you here. His jab cancel options and can be done from autocancelled Nair and grab release IIRC. They consistently rack up as much as 20% from jabs -> aether or w/e their many options are. Ike's aerial range also kills many of our approaches and kills our spacing nearly as bad as Olimar's grabs. To top it off, Ike can KO at very low %s and is capable of edgeguarding with Fair, Fsmash or Eruption from the ledge.

Mario CAN, however, approach via fireballs and combo pretty well because of Ike's fallspeed (I'm not sure if Ike can reliably escape with Nair or Aether). While close, Ike's most reliable method of getting you to back the hell off is his broken jab game. Be wary of this, or you won't have any chance of consistently racking up damage enough to KO him. Also remember, fireballs are terrible for camping/spamming/forcing opposition approach; do not try this vs Ike. He has the tools to keep you away and keep you away.

Mario can also gimp Ike pretty well with Fludd during his Aether (Ikes stopped using QD to recover) and push him away before he can grab the ledge. Don't be afraid to capeledgestallthing during the aether if your frames won't last. KO moves aren't too difficult to land on Ike because of his size and speed, just don't try to outspace his Fair; you will lose.

I say 55:45 Mario's advantage mainly because of how reliably he can gimp Ike and how great Mario does offstage.

Edit @ Kinzer: I'd gladly play if my disc still read Ikes. Also, Nevada connections don't agree with me over here in Maryland