Match-Up Week #15 : Wario

[~ Gheb ~]

Haha, I was under the impression that Jiggs has the best mobility in the air XD

Well, back2topic: I think it's even. KOing Wario is really frustrating. He's hard to grab which negates a very useful source of damage (the CG) and laser spam is not so hard to get around for Wario. He wins KO power by a large margin - his fsmash is just ridicoulus, especially compared to Falcos options.

I think that Falco wins in the air though. He has to do much more work to win than Wario but also has more options. Falcos Nair, bair and dair are all very useful and shut down a good part of Warios aerial game (which is a huge part of his game). Wario isn't so good on the ground except for his fsmash. If you let him approach you can stop a lot of his aerials. Just don't be dump and whiff a lot of moves.

 

[TechnoMonster]

Falco REALLY just can't get the kill here. Wario being in the air as he is, a Falco D-Smash is unlikely, and a whiffed U-Smash means your ass. A smart Wario should be able to avoid Falco's F-Smash's weird hitbox. Lasers are annoying, but Wario's aerial mobility allows him to get around with little damage/trouble.

This is super false its not even funny. Its not a matter of avoiding single moves, its a matter of avoiding an onslaught in the hands of a top notch Falco. At around 90%, we can side-B to pop you up, and follow with a U-air to B-air chain thats hard to dodge, then fall faster than you and f-smash on your landing. After that, if you try to punish, you might set yourself up for a u-smash or a spotdodged smash.

Falco can just go after Wario when Wario hits a high % and keep it going for a hot minute. Wario has to play very patiently and accurately avoid things and make a few prediction calls to stay alive. Granted, Wario is good at this, but that's just another reason why the matchup is even. I can see it leaning either way, but its really a matter of momentum swings and how you visualize the match.

 

[Megavitamins]

Technomaster: Are you serious? Wow...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

This is super false its not even funny. Its not a matter of avoiding single moves, its a matter of avoiding an onslaught in the hands of a top notch Falco. At around 90%, we can side-B to pop you up, and follow with a U-air to B-air chain thats hard to dodge, then fall faster than you and f-smash on your landing. After that, if you try to punish, you might set yourself up for a u-smash or a spotdodged smash.

Falco can just go after Wario when Wario hits a high % and keep it going for a hot minute. Wario has to play very patiently and accurately avoid things and make a few prediction calls to stay alive. Granted, Wario is good at this, but that's just another reason why the matchup is even. I can see it leaning either way, but its really a matter of momentum swings and how you visualize the match.

Oh, yeah, I guess I should stop listing information as if Wario is supposed to be generally defensive/reactive instead of blindly offensive like an idiot on Wi-Fi.

(For those of you that don't sense sarcasm, it's plainly there.)

Side-B isn't instantaneous, and isn't too difficult to avoid. Because of Wario's horizontal aerial mobility, a "U-Air to B-Air chain" is easy to avoid. If you F-Smash on the landing, Wario will either just keep moving away (like he should be doing anyway, because Falco -should- be giving chase with something other than F-Smash) or double-jump and punish. Hell, Wario might attempt to predict and get a free aerial, Bite, or Waft, none of which Falco would like.

Like I said earlier, fighting Falco is usually momentum-based; if Falco doesn't get the grab, he's forced to use his B-Air, N-Air, and D-Air for damage, which doesn't work particularly well against Wario. Wario almost only needs prediction for approaching, because his range is terrible. It's not incredibly hard for Wario to run away from anyone. It's quite difficult for Falco to get anything but a well-timed U-Smash for the KO, which is made exponentially harder if the Wario is making good use of his mobility for defense.

 

[DMG]

I concur with Reflex.

What did we settle on? Or is this still up for discussion?

 

[Vlade]

Hmm after hearing you wario mains I'm convinced that it's either even or in wario's favour.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Hmm after hearing you wario mains I'm convinced that it's either even or in wario's favour.

It's definitely nothing more than 60-40 in Wario's favor, but I would say it's anywhere from there to completely even. I'm still leaning towards at least 55-45 for Wario, though. Both Wario and Falco have their work cut out for them, but Falco has to work a fair deal harder for KOs, which is the real clincher here.

 

[8AngeL8]

I'm going to go with 50/50, entirely dependent on whether Falco can play a good enough game of keep away to get Wario to kill percentage. If Falco is screwing up his spacing, he loses hard.

 

[Mith_]

I'm gonna have to agree with Angel. This matchup is gonna take more than knowing how to CG and spam lasers to win.

 

[XxBlackxX]

yup, i think its pretty much even 50:50.

 

[Vlade]

I guess we've reached a consensus.

 

[Blad01]

I'm going to go with 50/50, entirely dependent on whether Falco can play a good enough game of keep away to get Wario to kill percentage. If Falco is screwing up his spacing, he loses hard.

Well, it's not really Falco dependent only... if Wario can pressures Falco's spacing well, and avoid Falco's kill moves, he has the upper-hand.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Well, it's not really Falco dependent only... if Wario can pressures Falco's spacing well, and avoid Falco's kill moves, he has the upper-hand.

Right. If Wario plays as he should, Falco has a fair amount of trouble doing what he wants, although Wario can't just tear Falco apart or anything. It's close, but it's 55-45 on average, I think. I can't really see it as 50-50 when they're both playing "right", honestly.

 

[8AngeL8]

I'm not saying it's entirely Falco dependent, but the impetus is on him to not make a mistake. If both players do well, it's even. If they play poorly or sloppily, Wario has the advantage.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm not saying it's entirely Falco dependent, but the impetus is on him to not make a mistake. If both players do well, it's even. If they play poorly or sloppily, Wario has the advantage.

If both characters are playing "correctly", Falco has trouble doing what he wants, in more ways than one. Wario still can't approach easily, because of Falco's good range and priority, but it's not too hard, and getting a kill on Falco when it's needed isn't so bad, either, unlike with Falco on Wario, who really has to outsmart Wario to get it.

 

[StarHawk_30]

Falco owns wario. ( although I might be biased since all my friends that main wario totally suck )

 

[Denzi]

Falco owns wario. ( although I might be biased since all my friends that main wario totally suck )

Wow...

Did you even read the thread you just posted in?

 

[pure_awesome]

He probably read the whole thing.

I mean, he's had three months to do so, right?

 

[DMG]

I see Wario having as much as a 65:35 or 70:30 on some stages where he camps Falco.

Discussion time, GOGOGOGOGO when I get back lol.

 

[Teran]

I see Wario having as much as a 65:35 or 70:30 on some stages where he camps Falco.

Discussion time, GOGOGOGOGO when I get back lol.

The discussion be over.

 

[pure_awesome]

Wario... camps... Falco?

 

[Hyo]

Always thought you needed some sort of throwing device to camp.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Always thought you needed some sort of throwing device to camp.

All you need is a lead and a way to get away. Wario is more mobile than Falco.

 

[Nefarious B]

Air camping works once you have a decent lead, forcing Falco to be more risky in approaching to do more damage before the timer runs out. Especially on a stage with platforms or just good evasion, lasers wont cut it for damage.

Watch some of DMGs vids since he's basically the king of this tactic

 

[ssbbFICTION]

I'd give it 55-45 falco on battlefield and other such stages...50-50 on yoshis....60-40 falco on FD and then 55-45 wario on lylat..prolly same as rainbow.

 

[PhantomX]

Yeah, I call the matchup pretty even, it's pretty stage dependent. One of the most annoying ones for sure though, lol

 

[CY]

i beat popertops wario(local wario player, good when he wants to be) beat phantomx in tourney, went 1-1 with DMG's wario in tourney at FS5 but he went g&w last match ;\

i'de give the match up 55-45 falco's favor. not an easy match up, falco just needs to play it really patiently. nair is really good at beating out a wario attacking with a dair.

wario is good, but i somehow manage to always pull something out of my ***

 

[Game&Watch]

I'm about to main Falco... but from what i have found playing my friends wario which is decent you can CG him to the edge and D-Air him to his dead as long as you edge hog him.

 

[Blad01]

nair is really good at beating out a wario attacking with a dair.

OMG this what i missed... I'm ready to beat Glutonny now

 

[kismet2]

OMG this what i missed... I'm ready to beat Glutonny now

Not only Falco's Nair but his Utilt(which is safer) beats just about any aerial approach(all aerials) with Wario making it very difficult to get close to Falco.

 

[PhantomX]

I wouldn't really count our set, CY, I was wiped out from playing against Dojo and didn't feel like playing against lasers... otherwise why would I have challenged you to a MM?

I think Falco has slight edge on flatter neutrals, but Wario gets the edge on most counterpicks, if not all, which factors into matchup evaluations as far as I know.

In order for Falco to uptilt or nair, he has to predict Wario's approach, but his bait game is pretty huge so he can easily fake an aerial, or autocancel one without getting to where you are and then grab. If the Wario is being cautious/careful/patient, it should be very hard to kill him as well. And then if he decides to aircamp you it should be the hardest thing you ever have to do in this game

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

I'm about to main Falco... but from what i have found playing my friends wario which is decent you can CG him to the edge and D-Air him to his dead as long as you edge hog him.

Wario's recovery is much better than that. Your friends prolly dont even bike jump.

 

[Emperor Time]

^Not to mention that the spike is techable now