Match-Up Export #9: King Dedede (Pre-progress)

[Xiivi]

Things will get done when I actually have access to my own computer again (blah blah broken blah blah already explained this to Zhamy), I guess for now I'll start up some more match-up exports so you guys at least have other characters to discuss for now.

Also since the other pre-progress threads are going VERY well, I decided to make a few more.

Planned Updates:
Links to Matches
Link to King Dedede Boards Fox Match-Up Discussion
Links to All Previous King Dedede Discussion from the Fox Boards
Stage Banning
Stage Striking
Stage Counter-Picking
Possible Secondaries
Chaingrab Specifics
Dealing with Opponent Projects
Utilizing your Own Projectiles
Approach
Defense
Recovery
Edgeguarding
Killing & Surviving
Frame Data Comparisons
Advantages & Disadvantages
Key Points

 

[718_ROOKI3]

1st post and yes finally more discussions... everyone lets gooooooooooooooo

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

DDD is one of the few people you can get the fair>fair>fair combo on and it be legitimate.
And shine combos are just stupid easy on him

 

[718_ROOKI3]

Time to get started

Green = Great CP
Yellow = Fairly Good CP
Red = Bad/Wrong CP

Stage Striking: Battlefield, Lylat

Stage Banning: PS1, Delfino

Stage CP'ing: Final.D, Smashville, Brinstar

King Dedede AKA The King

Frame Data:

These are the moves I feel we need to know by frame data, so we know what to stay away from and what we can challenge

Ftilt Frame 12
Dtilt Frame 7
Utilt Frame 12

Dsmash Frame 14
Fsmash Frame 43

Dash Attack Frame 26

Bair Frame 6
Fair Frame 16
Uair Frame 10
Dair Frame 8

For.B Frame ?
Neu.B Frame ?

Possible Secondaries - Peach, Falco, Kirby, Olimar, Meta-Knight, Luigi

Chaingrab Specifics - Fox is the fastest faller in the game he cannot get chaingrabbed.

Dealing with Opponent Projectiles - Gordos can be reflected, Waddles aren't a threat shoot them to replenish your moveset

Utilizing your Own Projectiles - SH Single laser, SHDL, and Standing are all good options in this match.

Approach - Don't approach it's too risky with The King's excellent defensive shield game and awesome grab range, just camp him out and wait for the opening to start small combos and develop a hit and run kind of style. When The King hits you he hits hard, be careful.

Defense - Your shield is always good so dont be afraid to shield his attacks. Utilize your speed its a big big big factor in this match-up. Retreating SHDL's and Retreating pivot grabs are extremely useful too. Don't be too too too defensive because The King can just put you in a really bad postion on any stage (even FD) and just slowly lower your options in a situation.

Recovery - Be sure to switch up your 2 recoveries, The King takes up wayyy too much room on edge guarding. And definitly besure to just back on the stage fast because The King is slow so speedy recoveries are a must here.

Edgeguarding - Edge guarding The King is not extremely hard but tricky. If you play the games mechanics correctly it can result in The King losing a stock. Just read your opponents jumps and slip a quick shine spike in there, even a drill shine works. You can also just occupy the ledge and force The King to UP-B and Bair him out of UP-B. There is several ways to edge guard just be smart/patient about it.

Killing & Surviving - TBA

 

[718_ROOKI3]

No one is discussing The King???

looks like i will...

Possible Secondaries - Peach, Falco, Kirby, Olimar, Meta-Knight, Luigi

Chaingrab Specifics - Fox is the fastest faller in the game he cannot get chaingrabbed.

Dealing with Opponent Projectiles - Gordos can be reflected, Waddles aren't a threat shoot them to replenish your moveset

Utilizing your Own Projectiles - SH Single laser, SHDL, and Standing are all good options in this match.

Approach - Don't approach it's too risky with The King's excellent defensive shield game and awesome grab range, just camp him out and wait for the opening to start small combos and develop a hit and run kind of style. When The King hits you he hits hard, be careful.

Defense - Your shield is always good so dont be afraid to shield his attacks. Utilize your speed its a big big big factor in this match-up. Retreating SHDL's and Retreating pivot grabs are extremely useful too. Don't be too too too defensive because The King can just put you in a really bad postion on any stage (even FD) and just slowly lower your options in a situation.

Recovery - Be sure to switch up your 2 recoveries, The King takes up wayyy too much room on edge guarding. And definitly besure to just back on the stage fast because The King is slow so speedy recoveries are a must here.

Edgeguarding - Edge guarding The King is not extremely hard but tricky. If you play the games mechanics correctly it can result in The King losing a stock. Just read your opponents jumps and slip a quick shine spike in there, even a drill shine works. You can also just occupy the ledge and force The King to UP-B and Bair him out of UP-B. There is several ways to edge guard just be smart/patient about it.

Killing & Surviving - TBA

 

[Zeton]

DDD has a 5 frame grab I'm sure in 1 direction of his throws it does like more than 10%.

Fox can't be cg'ed by D3 but if ur not careful ur down airs combos will be destroyed by that grab.

 

[718_ROOKI3]

DDD has a 5 frame grab I'm sure in 1 direction of his throws it does like more than 10%.

Fox can't be cg'ed by D3 but if ur not careful ur down airs combos will be destroyed by that grab.

DDD's Fthrow does 12% damage
DDD's Bthrow does 16% damage
DDD's Dthrow does 7-10% damage

Yea The King is a beast, and to think i wanted to main him

 

[Soma]

The match up is really about staying out of grabs and not getting edgeguarded. DDD will consistently get nearly 20% per grab. While off the ledge DDD can b-air or f-air you either off the screen or till you are too far off to recover with firefox or illusion. Out of a regular attack you can avoid this by not putting yourself in position to get gimped, but out of a b-throw or something along those lines it could be a quick stock.

As mentioned before a hit and run style is the best in this match-up. B-air is amazing. During hit and run situations a retreating b-air or hopping over DDD and b-air his shield allows you to pressure them while pushing DDD out of shield-grab range.

 

[718_ROOKI3]

The match up is really about staying out of grabs and not getting edgeguarded. DDD will consistently get nearly 20% per grab. While off the ledge DDD can b-air or f-air you either off the screen or till you are too far off to recover with firefox or illusion. Out of a regular attack you can avoid this by not putting yourself in position to get gimped, but out of a b-throw or something along those lines it could be a quick stock.

As mentioned before a hit and run style is the best in this match-up. B-air is amazing. During hit and run situations a retreating b-air or hopping over DDD and b-air his shield allows you to pressure them while pushing DDD out of shield-grab range.

yes i forgot to mention BAIR is awesome against The King. safe on block and auto cancel's when done correctly. it even has a shield poke property so be sure to add this to your game

 

[RPK]

Just so you know, SH Fair is awesome in this match up...Its nice, as you can use it to pressure the front of his shield, and then use it to cross him up, and Utilt the back of his shield. In addition, there isnt really much he can do from the back of his shield. His fastest option OOS is his Bair. Other than that, we outspeed him there. Behind his shield is his weakest place IMO. From there, you can U-tilt, or turn around and grab him if you wanted. In this match up, I just love the mix ups that you can do.

 

[crifer]

I tend to use fox as my secondary for DK for D3 bc we can combo him nicely
fair uptilt and stuff is good...but dont be aggresive, he can punish it easily with his range^^

 

[Jupz]

Dedede can kill fox a little earilier thanks to uptilt, and we live a little longer cause we are the heaviest with DI

 

[Exceladon City]

Never play a guy who mains Olimar and has D3 as a secondary. The tech chasing is so stupid annoying. Like Hilt's D3 tech chases me all across the stage. Which results in me getting *****. Of course I'm probably too offensive against him because I'm too used to fighting scrub Dedede's.

 

[Area_6]

I go with rookie's strategy. The D3's ive played pressurized my camping with consent dair's almost like donkeykong. eventually i realized how good fair was to get out of those situations and then i continued to camp.

 

[718_ROOKI3]

Dedede can kill fox a little earilier thanks to uptilt, and we live a little longer cause we are the heaviest with DI

Yea, killing the king isnt that easy

 

[Zephil]

yeah this match is hit and run... fox combos easily the king but the king is so **** HARD TO KILL!! (that penguin is really fat) even tha flash kick (of course I am talking of U-smash) kills DDD in 115% I think fresh AND without DI... so for the first time... I think fox has better options killing from the side with B-air, D-smash, and F-smash... especially the B-air that as everyone else has said is really good in this matchup but I preffer to save it for killing and not spamming it so much, anyways doing damage to DDD is not a problem. The other really important fact is that he is heavy and you are extremely light, is soo sad to see that you leave him in 115% and he is still not dead and then he esaily can kill you with a sweetspot F-smash in 70%... so maybe you would hit him much more than he will but when he hit, he hits HARD!!

 

[718_ROOKI3]

When The King hits you he hits hard, be careful.

so maybe you would hit him much more than he will but when he hit, he hits HARD!!

don't these look similar lmfao good job

 

[Zephil]

well there is no other way to say it... DDD HITS HARD!!

 

[718_ROOKI3]

well there is no other way to say it... DDD HITS HARD!!

Yea the king gets to me sometimes, like "wtf why do you have to hit so hard" thank goodness i have great DI otherwise i'd prolly give up on the match up

 

[*PALADIN*]

fighting DDD isnt hard, all you really have to do is use is foxs fairs, utilt, grabs, and JJC. what i do is i try to grab him offensivly and shading to evade and utilt. i use bair, fair, and nair for defense. i dont like to use lasers cause DDD can just throw wadle d's to block them.

 

[DarkAura]

yeah although im not a pro at fighting DDD (i know nobody who mains him) i used to main him so i know what fox has and D3 doesn't... it's pretty apparent that foxes main advantage is SHDLs and aerials your lasers block those waddle things from getting to you and force your opponent to play offensively. the key is to use as many aerial approaches as you can because thats what gets him but you can't be too predictable or else he can kill you at like what is it 100%? with his Utilt so watchout.. he is also very easily JJCed (is he not?) so i use that to my advantage when i can.... this is my look on the match up and i took this info from experience not searching around and gathering info.