Match-Up Discussion #21! Pikachu

[z5kaento5z]

No one in the game has a projectile that they travel faster than, even with glide-tossing.

Just one thing, Pikachu can actually QAC in front of his tjolt.
And as for the overall matchup, coming from a Pika player, dolphin slash is very effective at punishing... Especially on stages with platforms (middle of BF is the best) as Marth can land safely after using it.
Dancing blade is also great for building up damage if your opponent has slight lag, but it can be punished if Pika spotdodges and ends up behind Marth, and it can sometimes be shieldgrabbed.
Sometimes Pika will tjolt you when you're recovering, so save your jump to avoid that, or use upb early.
I like to grab with Pika, and there are quite a few follow-ups after an fthrow, like short-hopped fair, sliding usmash, or even a running grab if Marth doesn't jump (or possibly just DI backwards). I'm not sure but it might be possible fair a Pika approaching after his fthrow, so that might make some of these ineffective.
Also, if you're being fthrown or bthrown off the edge, a thunder might be coming.
Spacing is the key though. Fair and jab can cancel tjolt, so it's fairly easy to approach, but if the Pika is good at QACing then it'll be a lot harder.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, this is all just from what I've experienced (which isn't a whole lot, but I'll contribute what I can).

 

[Punishment Divine]

Just one thing, Pikachu can actually QAC in front of his tjolt.
And as for the overall matchup, coming from a Pika player, dolphin slash is very effective at punishing... Especially on stages with platforms (middle of BF is the best) as Marth can land safely after using it.
Dancing blade is also great for building up damage if your opponent has slight lag, but it can be punished if Pika spotdodges and ends up behind Marth, and it can sometimes be shieldgrabbed.
Sometimes Pika will tjolt you when you're recovering, so save your jump to avoid that, or use upb early.
I like to grab with Pika, and there are quite a few follow-ups after an fthrow, like short-hopped fair, sliding usmash, or even a running grab if Marth doesn't jump (or possibly just DI backwards). I'm not sure but it might be possible fair a Pika approaching after his fthrow, so that might make some of these ineffective.
Also, if you're being fthrown or bthrown off the edge, a thunder might be coming.
Spacing is the key though. Fair and jab can cancel tjolt, so it's fairly easy to approach, but if the Pika is good at QACing then it'll be a lot harder.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, this is all just from what I've experienced (which isn't a whole lot, but I'll contribute what I can).

Best Pika in Vegas?

 

[z5kaento5z]

Best Pika in Vegas?

o.o
I'd say I'm pretty good, but I'd have to fight/watch the other Vegas Pikas if I were to be the judge of that...
Anyway I don't think I'm THAT great. But not bad.
Besides, I need more practice with QAC and mobility in general, and I need to stop falling into traps
Also I NEEDZ MOAR MINDGAMEZ

 

[Nike.]

The pikachus recently learned a grab buffer trick and are in hyper test mode atm. And ALOT of characters now have certain inescapable grab combos. One on mk from 10%-53%, 0-83 and 10-93 on snake, 0-115+ on at least 2 other characters. Alot of ppl are already thinking of picking up marth since its pikas worst matchup.

Pray they dont find a way to ghey us

 

[Albert.]

The pikachus recently learned a grab buffer trick and are in hyper test mode atm. And ALOT of characters now have certain inescapable grab combos. One on mk from 10%-53%, 0-83 and 10-93 on snake, 0-115+ on at least 2 other characters. Alot of ppl are already thinking of picking up marth since its pikas worst matchup.

Pray they dont find a way to ghey us

Pikachu for SSS tier LMAO

 

[Pr0phetic]

They stil ldon't have anything new on Marth. He's too G for chaingrabs, and he ***** pokemon.

 

[Ussi]

This match up discussion is horrible (probably cause of how long ago it was)

Here is a better analysis:

Fair as it goes through tjolt as well as Pikachu, Up B OoS Pika's fair, DB to build damage, GG Pikachu.

^That is basic. Then mindgames come into play.

 

[Steel]

Well that stuff's pretty obvious. Pika still can't do anything if Marth is zoning properly, that's all we needed to discuss... how limited Pikachu is in this match.

 

[BacklashMarth]

If i heard right, the CG only does about 50 on marth i mean c'mon, this is MARTH. Considering pikas only approach is tjolting then running in for a grab or something, hes pretty limited. The only time marth should take any damage is if he made a mistake.

 

[_Kadaj_]

From my exp. I don't marth can be chain grabbed. Is their something I missed?

 

[KRiMz0N]

**** i hate when im matched with a pikachu.

but i counter the thunders, it works swell if it hits the pika

uh, marth sux vs tjolt, and itll probably lead to him getting hyphen smashed or something

From my exp. I don't marth can be chain grabbed. Is their something I missed?

that's a dangerous misconception to be havin

 

[_Kadaj_]

I've played some pretty decent pikachu's, you can jump or DS out of f throw, and the same thing with d throw.

It's that or they aren't buffering it right, plus i watched pierce play anther in person and he wasn't chain grabbing him at all

 

[Steel]

marth can't be CG'd. he will probably be, if not already the ultimate CP to pikachu now that pika has a deadly tool in his arsenal.

 

[_Kadaj_]

What's that steel?

 

[Steel]

Pika's buffered chain grab >_>

 

[Jugz]

Unless its on final tjolt spam isnt a porblem and even there honestly. Pika can be tough but if you play patient and wait for your chances you can win without to much trouble.

 

[_Kadaj_]

If that's the case play him like ic's

 

[Ussi]

am i missing something? Since when did Pikachu CG marth? Do tell ;o

Tjolt should never be a problem, all your aerials goes through it.

 

[Punishment Divine]

Pika is not a problem at all lol...I play with a Pika main on a weekly basis. All you have to do is zone with fair and spam DB pretty much...it's such a simple matchup. The only time Tjolt should be a problem at ALL is if you're off stage, and even then it's not that big of a problem. Most of his kill moves are very obvious and easy to avoid. You range **** him.

And the most Pika can do I think is a grab from zero into fthrow usmash, and I even get out of that sometimes.

 

[Remzi]

If Pika can CG marth, the matchup wont be **** anymore but we should still win.

 

[clowsui]

wow you guys completely missed steel's point

marth is now the ultimate cp to pika and we will see a huge rise in marth players because spacies (i.e. falco) are getting ***** by pika's 0-100 CGs with buffers on those characters

it basically makes falco unviable on the blind pick

 

[BBoyindo]

Also, Pika will rise in the tier list, top tiers will move down, Marth will move up. More Marth players = faster development as well.

 

[OmegaXF]

I suggest people play Anther or sumthin......lol that Pika *****. I think I'll talk about some pros to Pika really quick like, you guys can talk about how to counter it.

Pika has a VERY VERY fast Grab release from the stage. He lets go of the stage faster than most of the characters on the game!! The only characters that rival this speed are Link,TL,Ivysaur,Olimar,Shiek,Samus/Zamus due to the fact that once they tether onto the ledge they have instant actions as to what they can do next where as Marth will have to wait for his Invincibility frames to wear off. Point in close better ledge options.

Also to add to that. He can camp on the ledge of the stage!Ttjolt into QAC then hide back onto the stage and pretty much offense maneuvers while on the ledge. Pika is a beast in those situation, not saying he can't be stopped but still he has very nice options. Don't get gimped by Thunder always DI when your hit by USmash. . And Nair kills at some high percentages for Pika not to mention you'll both be down each others throat so it's something to keep in mind. So just some pros for Pika that ANY Marth mainer should look out for.

 

[bludhoundz]

Marth can leave the ledge before his invincibility frames wear off. Any character can.

 

[OmegaXF]

Not as fast as that yellow rat. And that rat does it faster than most characters in the game.

 

[_Kadaj_]

pika does have one of the fastest ledge releases

 

[superglucose]

it basically makes falco unviable on the blind pick

Not even close.

 

[KRiMz0N]

i thought you meant cging in general for some reason, i know pikas cg is useless

pika does have one of the fastest ledge releases

marth is catching up with the new at unveiled by, someone...that allows you to sweetspot the ledge with DS right after a release and double jump

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

This match is pretty much DI'ing out of his Dsmash. You have range on him, use it to your advantage. Power shield projectiles accordingly. Yay.

 

[Pr0phetic]

i thought you meant cging in general for some reason, i know pikas cg is useless
marth is catching up with the new at unveiled by, someone...that allows you to sweetspot the ledge with DS right after a release and double jump

Umm... they were talking about Pika CG, which is way past useful. And that's to regrab the ledge and egdehog, not release. Oh, and 3xSwords discover it.

 

[clowsui]

Not even close.

are you afraid of 0-death cgs?

if you answer yes then he's not viable on the blind.

the ice climbers case is different - they are MULTIPLE grabs from which you can MASH OUT and require a constant and consistent level of technical ability (that barrier can be eliminated with practice). furthermore their grab range is TERRIBLE and they have to force you to f up and get grabbed; pika has many more means to set up for the grab. furthermore ice climbers have retardedly bad matchups against a ton of characters whereas pikachu only has a few counters, one being marth.

 

[OmegaXF]

This match is pretty much DI'ing out of his Dsmash. You have range on him, use it to your advantage. Power shield projectiles accordingly. Yay.

But what if Pika doesn't Dsmash(As Much)? Then what is the matchup about?
Of course we have range but he has a projectile and there are many more uses then just spamming it. Powershielding is an option but when a Fully hopped tjolt is coming towards you and Pika is gonna follow up after that then what? Powershielding still?

The discolored rat is fast, with nice setups, along with potential, and gimping electricity to throw around. Amazing ledge game. And just to throw it out there an infinite lock with QAC.

We should discuss the different scenarios that are possible that would put Marth at a disadvantage rather then constantly discussing the pros over Pika.

Also for the record Pikas FSmash has more range than Marths FSmash...

 

[Ussi]

for the record, The distance is the same. Tipper is in Marth's favor too. However, Pikachu's is in favor up close.

But Yes, this match is NOT just DIing dsmash. That was 8 months ago man. Don't be so oblivious. Pikachus will actually rely on their combo game much as they can. Pikachu can combo everyone to an extent. Marth is no exception. Just his sword makes it very difficult to get in.

 

[ViCTORiOUSViC]

What would be the main thing to worry about Pikachu? Includin his best combo

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Marth has a sword Marth has longer reach space accordingly swing your sword you win. 70-30 in Marths favor next match up.

 

[Pr0phetic]

What would be the main thing to worry about Pikachu? Includin his best combo

Thunder (Down B), TJolt (Neutral B), Dsmash, Fsmash, Nair, and Quick Attack/QAC(UpB).

Probably some other but as much as I've seen since I played Scissors in the beginning of the month Vic.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Thunder (Down B), TJolt (Neutral B), Dsmash, Fsmash, Nair, and Quick Attack/QAC(UpB).

Probably some other but as much as I've seen since I played Scissors in the beginning of the month Vic.

Can't you DI out of dsmash? Thunder can be countered. Doesn't jab cancel nuetral b same with quick attack ?

 

[Ussi]

uair ***** everyone. It attacks 180 degrees and has decent range (for pikachu). It combos into more uairs and nairs.

Fair is used a bit, but of it hits your shield DS it before of shield stabs you.

nB's sole purpose is to occupy you. But your aerials will go through it.

Lastly utilt/smash will combo into thunder dependant on DI and %

 

[ViCTORiOUSViC]

Thunder (Down B), TJolt (Neutral B), Dsmash, Fsmash, Nair, and Quick Attack/QAC(UpB).

Probably some other but as much as I've seen since I played Scissors in the beginning of the month Vic.

You right you right, I just didn't see the match so I was just wondering

I know Thunder is a big worry because some Pikachu mains spam it sometimes and if it so happens that you get hit right on Pikachu's lvl, you can b KO'ed

 

[KRiMz0N]

Umm... they were talking about Pika CG, which is way past useful. And that's to regrab the ledge and egdehog, not release. Oh, and 3xSwords discover it.

it's useless against marth. and for the latter half, i know what it's for, i've mastered it. also, oh, i thought for a second after posting it was s2nd but decided i wouldnt remember.