Match-Up Discussion #15! Donkey Kong

[DUB]

First of all, tech? If DK jumps OFF the stage while holding marth, it's really not that hard to predict.

After that, Marth is left(let's say an absolute worst case scenario where it's on Final D and Marth is under the lip now after teching), in a spot where he can't just dolphin slash to recover. Even if he did, he could(if it was another stage), he would get gimped by invincibility frames or would have to land on the stage which is a free hit for DK. Instead he just air dodges to avoid a any other stage spike attempts from DK while waiting out the invincibility frames and moving away from the lip, then reverse dolphin slashes to sweetspot the ledge when invincibility frames are gone for DK. DK can't dair spike him either because of dolphin slash's invincibility frames. And even if somehow Marth gets Bair'd when trying to dolphin slash back, he still has his second jump and can dolphin slash AGAIN.

And donkey punch is slow(even if it was a joke post). You wanna claim super armor so Marth can't attack him out of it? Counter. It's not like there isn't time to....

Fail Post. Noone is talking about the stage spike throw. It's the Cargo --> Dthrow off the stage.

 

[Steel]

Any objections to 55:45 DK?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Steel and I decided to just give this one to DK slightly since alot of you seem adamant that DK has slight advantage.

I personally see this as even and some of the more well known and analytical DK players seem to give it to Marth which REALLY makes me think it's more even then anything else.

Still, on the surface at least DK seems to have slight advantage so...eh.

Remember all ratios are subject to change in the future at any given time, if the argument is sound enough.

 

[marth69]

ya most of his attacks take a while to recover from

 

[GodheadsLamentX]

If the DK player is upBing vertically up to the ledge, then you can run off, counter to stage spike.

 

[BacklashMarth]

Ok, quick question. Since marth can double jump, DB stall, and dolphin slash after being cargo d-thrown, then wont recovery be a minimal problem? Marth has ridiculous recovery when DB is used correctly (can you say "back from the grave off-screen recovery"?) If im not mistaken DB can also work as a spike cancel or at least slow you down. *skepticism*

 

[Fitty]

actuall i think marth has the advantage do to his speed and dk size he can be grabbed and juggle easy.

 

[Punishment Divine]

Ok, quick question. Since marth can double jump, DB stall, and dolphin slash after being cargo d-thrown, then wont recovery be a minimal problem? Marth has ridiculous recovery when DB is used correctly (can you say "back from the grave off-screen recovery"?) If im not mistaken DB can also work as a spike cancel or at least slow you down. *skepticism*

Have you ever been bair'd by DK? Or fair'd after a cargo dthrow? I get that **** almost every time I play this game, and let me tell you that if you don't recover intelligently, you're gonna lose against DK, and half the time that won't even save you ;_; DK gimps Marth like there's no tomorrow, so recovery is a huge problem

Also, above poster, l2matchup and stop spamming to get your post count up.

 

[Pr0phetic]

I think 50:50 should stand. no matter what quip. Applying constant pressure to DK will stop any chance of this off-stage down cargo. DK can outrange, but Marth can get in it fairly well. Both are projectile-less, have long DTilt pokes, and speed to power and weight are balanced out. I play both characters, and they're fairly equal.

 

[Dragoomba]

I think just the comparison of kill moves alone give DK the favor.

 

[Steel]

it doesnt though

 

[Shaya]

Screw 10 swing or 9 swing DK PAWNCH!

FULLY CHARGED GIGA SHIELD BRAKAR!
DK's recovery is that bad.

And if they recover low then Steel will spam counter 3+++ times until you die.

 

[Pr0phetic]

*** **** thank you Shaya.
I will stand by my even statement.

 

[Pierce7d]

DK wins this 55:45. Trust me.

Once Marth is in close, DK still has jab, dtilt, and downB, which can be beaten, but doesn't mean they will by default. Let's not forget DK can gimp Marth too. His recovery is very good, and isn't as punishable as we'd like on most CP stages. DK dramatically outlives Marth, and a GOOD DK will NOT DIE unless Marth tippers him, the end. DK can kill Marth relatively easily, and if he calls a Fair at any given moment, can kill with Giant Punch. DK has small combos, but they rack up a third or a quarter of the percent that he needs to kill Marth. DK can also trap with Fsmash, which is counterable, but it's also risky to counter, because if he charges it, you're eating SO much damage. DK's UpB is also strong on it's own right, and racks up crazy damage, or can gimp if you mess up an edgeguard.

Marth can combo DK, and even 0-death DK (difficult, but possible). He pressures and punishes very hard, but has trouble landing the kill. Marth has counter and Dolphin Slash, which save him from high pressure situations. He also has shield breaker, which is very useful for it's range, power, and it's ease in landing on DK. SHNairs pulled off the shield will Shield stab the second time, and assist Marth in landing a K.O..

All in all, the scales are slightly tipped in DK's favor. Thank god he gets comboed.

 

[Steel]

pierce we needdd to talk on aimz

 

[∫unk]

I have to agree with Pierce.

SRK ****ed me up with DK (last time we played was a few weeks ago though...) and at first I thought it was cause of matchup johns/bad habits but... seriously his ledge traps are evil as hell.

Also good DK's only get hit by the counter on the recovery once by DIing up.

Either way thank god for DDD.

 

[Darxmarth23]

THis is why i hate going against DK.

Its good that marth is above DK on the tier list even though its not in his favor.

For now.