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Masashi (Japan's Best Pit) Videos

Suyon

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I've seen 3 of already and it would have been better if you posted these in the Pit video thread.
Masashi doesn't do any AT's and just plays defensively, spacing, and punishes when they make a mistake.
 

Coffee™

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These videos have been in the stickied video thread for quite a long time already.
 

stingers

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Pit's ATs are all useless.

Okay, they're not useless, but 99.99% of Pit mains don't use them anywhere near intelligently at all. So they're currently very useless.

Basics, people.
 

Lezard

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Pit's ATs are all useless.

Okay, they're not useless, but 99.99% of Pit mains don't use them anywhere near intelligently at all. So they're currently very useless.

Basics, people.

This is a misconcieve idea, however nobody fighting style is entirly diffrent if we fight to win, we fight interms of our oppnents fighting style

it goes like this

I define myself interms of you if i am am above you it means i am bitter than you if i am below it means that you better that me... (i cant make the connection...the idea slip my mind :ohwell:) blah blah blah... the point is Masashi dont use AT because he dont of to he is already better than the people he play wethout it only if he was playing against you guys in the US only then he would see the purpose of useing them.
 

rinoH

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I define myself interms of you if i am am above you it means i am bitter than you if i am below it means that you better that me... (i cant make the connection...the idea slip my mind :ohwell:) blah blah blah... the point is Masashi dont use AT because he dont of to he is already better than the people he play wethout it only if he was playing against you guys in the US only then he would see the purpose of useing them.
wait wat?
and most AT's are useless like wingdashing so he just plays smart and doesnt try to show off and instead tries to win
 

stingers

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Okay I get you're from Jamaica but your english can't be that bad if you can understand what people are saying on this website

And yeah, Pit players, Pit is a god**** good character but once you ****ing learn the basics and stop trying to force things like Wingdashing and other useless crap into your play, Pit will get a lot higher on the US tier list too, I promise you.
 

NintenJoe

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Given that Pit has a lot of possibilities as a character, it's my personal opinion that he can be played in a variety of different ways. Players like Undrdog, for example, do well using ATs and use them when they should be used in order to cause the most damage. Masashi, on the other hand, plays excellently without any sort of advanced technique. That being said, it's probable that Pit's ATs aren't "useless", per se, but rather situational to a degree where both players who utilize and disregard them both do well.
 

goodkid

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Only useful advanced thing pit has is wingdashing. His Pit is good & inspiring, I better get back to the basics if I want to win ^_^
 

Rogue Pit

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Pit's ATs are all useless.

Okay, they're not useless, but 99.99% of Pit mains don't use them anywhere near intelligently at all. So they're currently very useless.

Basics, people.
You can't seriously generalize an entire community of a specific type of character with a statement like that. Being as though you may have only seen a few pits plays. You've based your stereotypes off of them and thereby makes you incorrect. Your statistics are incorrect and just because something is not utilized to the best of it's abilities does not make it useless.

This is a misconcieve idea, however nobody fighting style is entirly diffrent if we fight to win, we fight interms of our oppnents fighting style

it goes like this

I define myself interms of you if i am am above you it means i am bitter than you if i am below it means that you better that me... (i cant make the connection...the idea slip my mind :ohwell:) blah blah blah... the point is Masashi dont use AT because he dont of to he is already better than the people he play wethout it only if he was playing against you guys in the US only then he would see the purpose of useing them.
Your wrong, I'm quite sure that there are players better than mashashi in Japan and he wins on being smart, pressuring with arrows, adapting to his opponent, and camping. There is no need for wingdashing in a player who has fundamentals as he does. He was a melee player and a really good fox, so he understands things about the game and players. "ATs" such as wingdashing are not necessary in Pits game. They are usable and not usable, it depends on preference.

wait wat?
and most AT's are useless like wingdashing so he just plays smart and doesnt try to show off and instead tries to win
Show off is an understatement. Most pits try to look pretty, they arrow loop connect and get fsmashed and die but are happy they hit with the arrow. Generally saying wingdashing is useless wouldn't be right, but the way it is represented gives that idea. "Ultimate Wingdashing" as in Lezard's thread I believe is useless. But it does have it's purposes, just its misinterpreted as such.

Okay I get you're from Jamaica but your english can't be that bad if you can understand what people are saying on this website

And yeah, Pit players, Pit is a god**** good character but once you ****ing learn the basics and stop trying to force things like Wingdashing and other useless crap into your play, Pit will get a lot higher on the US tier list too, I promise you.
One you can understand what he saying, there's no point of critizing someone over their english. You learn another language and type it fluently, rather it was typo his english is not even bad....

At your second paragraph, I'm not really sure how to respond besides you have no idea what is going on...

Given that Pit has a lot of possibilities as a character, it's my personal opinion that he can be played in a variety of different ways. Players like Undrdog, for example, do well using ATs and use them when they should be used in order to cause the most damage. Masashi, on the other hand, plays excellently without any sort of advanced technique. That being said, it's probable that Pit's ATs aren't "useless", per se, but rather situational to a degree where both players who utilize and disregard them both do well.
I agree but I disagree, the ATs that Undr implement are not good, or done correctly, so your source of knowledge is taunted. Though your right, but wrong? Basics is what is your foundation, if you have that you can win easily because majority of brawl players lack that. If you have the knowledge and Understanding of the "ATs" you can find some benefit to them but majority of them are useless and are just for making you look pretty.

Only useful advanced thing pit has is wingdashing. His Pit is good & inspiring, I better get back to the basics if I want to win ^_^
You shouldn't have to get BACK to them, rather you should have learned from the beginning. Not you, but most pits period. Flashy and unintelligent, which is why pit is misrepresented, but hey I'm loving it xD. Drop Pit to low tier please :chuckle:

@Lezard, how do you have the authority to deem yourself the best wingdasher?
 

teh_pwns_the

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**** rogue is kicking *** and taking names haha

only AT i see as pretty useful is looping against chars like GnW that makes them pull the bucket when they dont need to
 

Suyon

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Most of Pit's ATs are useless except Wing Refresh and Arrow looping I suppose. Angelic step (pivot walk) is good too. I mean they're not bad but no one is capable of showing it's full potential consistently. Like Rogue says, lots of people are just using AT's just to show off when not covering the fundamentals first.
 

teh_pwns_the

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Most of Pit's ATs are useless except Wing Refresh and Arrow looping I suppose. Angelic step (pivot walk) is good too. I mean they're not bad but no one is capable of showing it's full potential consistently. Like Rogue says, lots of people are just using AT's just to show off when not covering the fundamentals first.
oh ok, i forgot wing refresh is pretty useful as well

most people who loop arrows dont connect with it and thats part of the reason that its not useful for many people. but when you can loop and connect consistently and chase correctly its pretty useful, like i said though the most important part of it is actually being able to connect which mos tpeople cannot, they either make the loop too long so it hits the ground or too short so that it ends up going to high
 

Coffee™

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most people who loop arrows dont connect with it and thats part of the reason that its not useful for many people. but when you can loop and connect consistently and chase correctly its pretty useful, like i said though the most important part of it is actually being able to connect which mos tpeople cannot, they either make the loop too long so it hits the ground or too short so that it ends up going to high
Mine and Rogue's looping are pretty **** accurate and we both think its pretty unecessary =/= bad :)
 

Lezard

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Your wrong, I'm quite sure that there are players better than mashashi in Japan and he wins on being smart, pressuring with arrows, adapting to his opponent, and camping. There is no need for wingdashing in a player who has fundamentals as he does. He was a melee player and a really good fox, so he understands things about the game and players. "ATs" such as wingdashing are not necessary in Pits game. They are usable and not usable, it depends on preference.

Ok Rogue Pit i cant say i disagree with you at any point, basic are very imprtant and that is the exact reason why i play the game very well i have been play smash for over 8 years and i was the best for most of the time. However i honestly beileve that there is now way to understand an idea fully, ideas like Wingdash, Arrow looping and all the other ATs are ideas yes? the point is nobody will be able to apply them fully but there are few who still try correct? To say that an idea is useless is meaningless no one here as a solid ground to stand on, so to speak. Still the majority of people who try to apply these idea forgot about winning consequeutly they forgot about the basic. Now Rogue. one must always remember due to the fact that ATs are Ideas every individual use ideas diffrent, thy see it from diffrent angles,.For instace lets say that a piano as only 8 keys and you let a hundred people play i gurantee that there would be a hundred diffrent tones, this is the infinate amount of individuality people hold but most people try to fit those infinate amount individuality in a limited pattern and thats what create misconception( this is a universal principle) the misconception is between what is basic and what brake away from basic (ATs) these two is diffrent end of the same stick so one must not discriminated between to two. However

Simple because i play almost every fighting game u could probly think of so i have a lot of fighting game exprience, Now, Masashi figth style is very familiar, he dont use ATs because he cant do them well, mind games wont work on him that well because he ignorant himself to one aspect of the game, to him its about exprience and need to win nothing else he himslf know
he is not as talented as everybody else so he stick to what he do best and he is not intimated by any flashingness, and this is the exact reason why he so good. Now u might wonder how i know this, right?

@Lezard, how do you have the authority to deem yourself the best wingdasher?
Ok Rogue the number one wingdasher, becase i watch many vid and i never seen no one applied it as well as i. I am INTJ personality type so i guess i am kinda arrogant:laugh:


I agree but I disagree, the ATs that Undr implement are not good, or done correctly, so your source of knowledge is taunted. Though your right, but wrong? Basics is what is your foundation, if you have that you can win easily because majority of brawl players lack that. If you have the knowledge and Understanding of the "ATs" you can find some benefit to them but majority of them are useless and are just for making you look pretty.

basic is what pertaining to or constituting a base or basis , a basic fact; a basic ingrendents, the question one should ask is, what the process that one as to go through to develope good basic? The truth of the matter is, in many cases a belief\idea is accepted with slight are almost no attempts to state the ground that support it in many other cases, the ground are the basis of a believe is delibrately sought and its adeqaucy in supporting it, most people accept the idea of having basic good basic yes?....i could go on for ever but i am tired :psycho: anyway basic technique and Advance technique is one and the same the moment you deside to separate them you render your wont oppinion meaningless, you are simple missing the mark.
wait wat?
and most AT's are useless like wingdashing so he just plays smart and doesnt try to show off and instead tries to win
Not every one know the "bases on which and ATs tech should be use" its a process you will soon get there is no need to stop what you are doing you are on the rigth path
 

rinoH

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Who said that Masashi doesnt know how to do the AT's well oh and Wing Refresh is prtty useful but the others aren't really and if they are they are very situational and if Masashi is talentless how does he win so much????????????????????????????
 

Lezard

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Who said that Masashi doesnt know how to do the AT's well oh and Wing Refresh is prtty useful but the others aren't really and if they are they are very situational and if Masashi is talentless how does he win so much????????????????????????????
Well you dont of to have talent to win exprience can make you seem extremely good and you have less to think about. How old is Masashi?
 

Cross.

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Simple because i play almost every fighting game u could probly think of so i have a lot of fighting game exprience, Now, Masashi figth style is very familiar, he dont use ATs because he cant do them well, mind games wont work on him that well because he ignorant himself to one aspect of the game, to him its about exprience and need to win nothing else he himslf know
he is not as talented as everybody else so he stick to what he do best and he is not intimated by any flashingness, and this is the exact reason why he so good.
Masashi probably does know how to do all the ats though. He used to play melee very well(This is the same masashi that used to use roy right?) so i doubt technicalities are a problem for him. how do you know he cant do them well? also wtf @ him not being talented? how in the world can you say that?


lezard said:
Well you dont of to have talent to win exprience can make you seem extremely good and you have less to think about. How old is Masashi?
ats=/=talent. what are you saying? Because he cuts ats from his playstyle that means hes not talented?
 

Lezard

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Masashi probably does know how to do all the ats though. He used to play melee very well(This is the same masashi that used to use roy right?) so i doubt technicalities are a problem for him. how do you know he cant do them well? also wtf @ him not being talented? how in the world can you say that?



ats=/=talent. what are you saying? Because he cuts ats from his playstyle that means hes not talented?
The problem with most people they dont understand the meaning of ideas. Dullness in all direction is very rare if a student is not good at historical facts you might find him\she to be good at potray character wether fictional or nonfictional, went i say he as no talent i mean he doesnt see the need to learn more are understand a concept fully, he goes with the feel of the game that which is concrete to him he doesnt focus on abstract concept because he isn't good at that. When i say talent i mean the ability to apply everything that is knowed.
ats=/=talent. what are you saying? Because he cuts ats from his playstyle that means hes not talented?
And if you going to reason try and reason on my level and stop separate ATs from basic tech, and to go to your level of reasoning, cutting ATs from is playstyle is a abitrary decision, he doesnt see the need for the ATs and the ideas tha associate with it.
You see, ATs is our perception of an idea being ATs which in essence not true

One of the best gamer i know, we play mortal together i can do combos that will take of all of your life but still i cant win him because his basic is best i have every seen all he did was basic move like Xkick, Uppercut etc. and some easy combo and he have like a super defensive the exact same way Masashi play, and went i ask why he dont use the Advance combo he said "I cant bother that is too much thing to think about" he is good not at abstract concept which i believe is the true mark of talent

The problem you with people you get caught with who is bitter than who at one point in time, well..i guess mybe becasue i am philosophical i always look for the meaning behine everything
 

stingers

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Rogue says the same exact things I say while bashing me for saying it?

And then people agree with him?

What the **** is wrong with the Pit boards XD
 

Rogue Pit

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**** rogue is kicking *** and taking names haha

only AT i see as pretty useful is looping against chars like GnW that makes them pull the bucket when they dont need to
1. GnW will kill you before you can do a full loop.
2. If he isn't near you he can bucket it and be safe, if he isn't than he will hit you just PS the arrow, Arrow looping is still useless.

Most of Pit's ATs are useless except Wing Refresh and Arrow looping I suppose. Angelic step (pivot walk) is good too. I mean they're not bad but no one is capable of showing it's full potential consistently. Like Rogue says, lots of people are just using AT's just to show off when not covering the fundamentals first.
It's not a lot, it's majority, less than 5 people who attention tournaments and are significant in the community actually know basics. What determines if a "AT" is useful is it's times it works divided by the times you've tried it. Arrow looping is garbage period. There is something better to do than a pivot walk, and Wing refresh is probably the only one I can say is really good.

oh ok, i forgot wing refresh is pretty useful as well

most people who loop arrows dont connect with it and thats part of the reason that its not useful for many people. but when you can loop and connect consistently and chase correctly its pretty useful, like i said though the most important part of it is actually being able to connect which mos tpeople cannot, they either make the loop too long so it hits the ground or too short so that it ends up going to high
Your still forgeting the fact that it takes time, and you can shoot about 3 arrows in the time it takes to loop. Arrow looping is apparently popular so almost everyone will know what your doing when they see pit shoot an arrow, walk back, kneel, than walk back. IT'S NOT A MINDGAME.

Mine and Rogue's looping are pretty **** accurate and we both think its pretty unecessary =/= bad :)
Tis true

Ok Rogue Pit i cant say i disagree with you at any point, basic are very imprtant and that is the exact reason why i play the game very well i have been play smash for over 8 years and i was the best for most of the time. However i honestly beileve that there is now way to understand an idea fully, ideas like Wingdash, Arrow looping and all the other ATs are ideas yes? the point is nobody will be able to apply them fully but there are few who still try correct? To say that an idea is useless is meaningless no one here as a solid ground to stand on, so to speak. Still the majority of people who try to apply these idea forgot about winning consequeutly they forgot about the basic. Now Rogue. one must always remember due to the fact that ATs are Ideas every individual use ideas diffrent, thy see it from never angles,.
I'm gonna have to disagree with your analogy, "ATs" are not ideas they are just preferable movements. To say one is useless is possible if it has no effect on the metagame. Apparently Pits have been wingdashing for months what is happening? Why is pit lower than he should be? It's not worth it, and mashashi is winning because he knows and understands that.

For instace lets say that a piano as only 8 keys and you let a hundred people play i gurantee that there would be a hundred diffrent tones, this is the infinate amount of individuality people hold but most people try to fit those infinate amount individuality in a limited pattern and thats what create misconception( this is a universal principle)
Every tone doesn't work though, I can wingdash in this situation and you can wingdash in that situation but mines is more benefitical. Or I can not wingdash, and do something more simplistic and effective. Which would you choose? The fact of the matter is wingdashing in majority of cases is flashy. Please name one situation where wingdashing or arrow looping would be the BEST possible choice.

the misconception is between what is basic and what brake away from basic (ATs) these two is diffrent end of the same stick so one must not discriminated between to two. However simple because i play almost every fighting game u could probly think of so i have a lot of fighting game exprience, Now, Masashi figth style is very familiar, he dont use ATs because he cant do them well, mind games wont work on him that well because he ignorant himself to one aspect of the game, to him its about exprience and need to win nothing else he himslf know
he is not as talented as everybody else so he stick to what he do best and he is not intimated by any flashingness, and this is the exact reason why he so good. Now u might wonder how i know this, right?
How can you possibly say that this person http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYAPchLN56M cannot do a simple tech as jump Wings and Dair effectively. He's not as talented as everyone esle? Hes one of top players in japan, surely he must have some talent to make his character S tier. Your points don't make sense.

Ok Rogue the number one wingdasher, becase i watch many vid and i never seen no one applied it as well as i. I am INTJ personality type so i guess i am kinda arrogant:laugh:
This statement makes you more like the guy who ridicules you over typing "improperly." Just because you do not see it doesn't mean you can automatically make the assumption that you are the best. If that is the case, I should have a sig saying I am the best pit in the world because I don't see anyone who honesty plays better than me.
 

stingers

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Dude I said what I said about his English because I couldn't comprehend what the hell he was trying to say. -_-
 

Lezard

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I'm gonna have to disagree with your analogy, "ATs" are not ideas they are just preferable movements. To say one is useless is possible if it has no effect on the metagame. Apparently Pits have been wingdashing for months what is happening? Why is pit lower than he should be? It's not worth it, and mashashi is winning because he knows and understands that.

What? This is unnessary reductionism. moving in any direction is abitrary decision of the human mind



Every tone doesn't work though, I can wingdash in this situation and you can wingdash in that situation but mines is more benefitical. The fact of the matter is wingdashing in majority of cases is flashy. Please name one situation where wingdashing or arrow looping would be the BEST possible choice.

.
How do you know which is more beneficial? there his no way to accurately know that since we have no control over what our opponent do there is too much veriable involve i might even trip :chuckle:

Or I can not wingdash, and do something more simplistic and effective. Which would you choose?
if the state demand a wingdash if not i wont there is no way to know which is more effective at that momen in time, this is the exact reason why any movement as to become ideal, so the move as to be seen as an idea

How can you possibly say that this person http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYAPchLN56M cannot do a simple tech as jump Wings and Dair effectively. He's not as talented as everyone esle? Hes one of top players in japan, surely he must have some talent to make his character S tier. Your points don't make sense.
you should read my previous post
But here it

The problem with most people they dont understand the meaning of ideas. Dullness in all direction is very rare if a student is not good at historical facts you might find him\she to be good at potray character wether fictional or nonfictional, went i say he as no talent i mean he doesnt see the need to learn more are understand a concept fully, he goes with the feel of the game that which is concrete to him he doesnt focus on abstract concept because he isn't good at that. When i say talent i mean the ability to apply everything that is knowed.

This statement makes you more like the guy who ridicules you over typing "improperly." Just because you do not see it doesn't mean you can automatically make the assumption that you are the best. If that is the case, I should have a sig saying I am the best pit in the world because I don't see anyone who honesty plays better than me.
wether not i am, i still will always have confidence in anything i do, i did it so i can get a reaction that might lead to the truth, if i am not, prove it to me that i not, and i will do my best to make it so, in your case if i thought i had the best pit in world, i would do everything to try and make it a fact i wouldn't suggest it, is like your seeking some else approval, and since you already say you haven't seen any Pit better than yours. it only mean you do have what it take to best Pit

Dude I said what I said about his English because I couldn't comprehend what the hell he was trying to say. -_-
i am use to that
 

Byuusan

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Wow i can't believe this is still going, But tbh, i think all AT (Except Wing Refreshing) are useless in competive play.

Arrow loop and variation- Too much time + way too predictable.

Glide Shifting - It ok but really, your just changing height.

ART (or w/e the name is) - too situational, and too hard to pull off in my own opinon

WingDashing - Useless except for projectile blocking....... but our 2 reflector does the same thing.

Angelic Step/ Pivot Step - OH PLEASE Angelic step is soo easy to read, pivot step is so situational

When i dropped nearly all but Wing Refreshing my game got so much better just playing by the basics.

Sadly i think i still try to do arrow loops without thinking about it
 

Suyon

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Angelic Step/ Pivot Step - OH PLEASE Angelic step is soo easy to read, pivot step is so situational
To be on the same page. You mean Angelic or pivot step is easy to read because of the spot dodge then the step? I'm talking about when you're just stutter stepping or landing from a jump. Or is that STILL easy to read? Just making sure.
 

Phaigne

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Okay, I know we always argue about looping arrows. So, I will just say my comment and leave before it's an argument. Looping is ONLY useful with a chase... in most cases. There will be rare occurrences where you can be flashy and effective with other forms of looping, but they are quite rare and improbable....but cool. Arrows Chasing is useful as an approach, it really doesn't take long, and is great for setting up attacks if used properly. Not sure about the other AT's, I can't make up my mind. None of them are game breaking and cause a player to be bad, just because they can't do them. Just my opinion, though.
 

teh_pwns_the

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only loop after youve missed with the arrow and the GnW is gonna be in the no arrow zone, he will be semi close, by the time the arrow hits leaving him three options air dodge, recieve punishment when its finished, bucket the arrow take punishment during cool down lag ooooooorrr take the arrow and the punishment, maybe your guyses spacing is off when you loop, nothing against your guys' gameplay, its just something you might have never bothered to learn because you deemed it useless

yes you can get three arrows off in the tim eyou can do one loop, so loopin gis not always best, no argument there sometimes its best to light the dude up

all im saying is there are certain spacings in which an arrow loop can be helpful


oh and of course its not a mindgame haha, its one of the most obvious things in the game
 

Byuusan

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To be on the same page. You mean Angelic or pivot step is easy to read because of the spot dodge then the step? I'm talking about when you're just stutter stepping or landing from a jump. Or is that STILL easy to read? Just making sure.
the Dodge makes it easier to read, since Angelic Step requires the Dodge to work.the Movement it good but you need practice to be able to use it effective in term of spacing and when to use it.

Overall i think Pivot step is much faster, less predictable and it does the same thing. I don't use it as much though b/c Pit range is poor except for F-tilt so spacing in terms of attacking doesn't really affect us THAT much, i won't say spacing is not important but it not as important as say, marth moveset.
 

teh_pwns_the

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I noticed this pit does two things that most Pits don't: Number 1; he doesn't use useless ATs and clog the rest of his game by doing so and number two; he actually wins.
lol
they see me trollin

read the discussion and you would have known we were discussing the usefulness of AT's and as to you second point, thank you for the extremely helpful observation, ill try it next time i play
 
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