Marth's/Roy's counter

[Impersonator]

Salutations,

Dear community, I humbly come to you guys to solve a newly sparked debate among this person and I. We were smashing the other day, and the conversation somehow made its way concerning Marth's counter (Down-B). His argument was that counter is a defensive move since the user does not get hurt once he/she deploys it. On my defense I say that counter is an offensive move since the user activates this move only when he/she knows that he/she would get hit and is seeking a form of retaliation. As if the user would honestly want to be defensive he/she would just avoid the hit at altogether (shield, lightshield, side step, wavedash back, jump back, walk/run away).

This is for both debating purposes and to somewhat find out what majority of the community thinks.

~Thanks in advance to those of you sharing your thoughts.

PS: Counter does implement both defense and offense; I know that much, but if you had to pick a side, which one would it be?

 

[mhenlo]

Salutations,

Dear community, I humbly come to you guys to solve a newly sparked debate among this person and I. We were smashing the other day, and the conversation somehow made its way concerning Marth's counter (Down-B). His argument was that counter is a defensive move since the user does not get hurt once he/she deploys it. On my defense I say that counter is an offensive move since the user activates this move only when he/she knows that he/she would get hit and is seeking a form of retaliation. As if the user would honestly want to be defensive he/she would just avoid the hit at altogether (shield, lightshield, side step, wavedash back, jump back, walk/run away).

This is for both debating purposes and to somewhat find out what majority of the community thinks.

~Thanks in advance to those of you sharing your thoughts.

PS: Counter does implement both defense and offense; I know that much, but if you had to pick a side, which one would it be?

IMO its kinda both its not that offensive since you can't really follow it up unless you're countering a firefox recovery
and its not that defensive since there are so many more reliable and better things to do

 

[Strong Badam]

it's neither offensive nor defensive
it's "situational"

 

[megapup]

its neither cos u dont use it

 

[Jonas]

The move itself is neither, but it can be used in both offensice and defensive strategies.

 

[azianraven]

Counter makes you feel kinda dumb when it's used on you repeatedly...and it works.

 

[booshk]

its neither cos u dont use it

lol.


and.. i'd say defensive.

 

[MooseEatsBear]

Situational. What Strong Bad said.

 

[Shadow Huan]

^^ that...

 

[Kason Birdman]

defensive.

M2K thrives that ****

 

[Jonas]

Has anyone actually been offended by any move in this game?

 

[Impersonator]

For all of you that bothered to answer my post, i appreciate it, although I should of made clear that I was/am looking for an answer with an explanation. One worded answers are pretty much useless.

 

[Kason Birdman]

Has anyone actually been offended by any move in this game?

G&W's jab. mad offensive imo.

take a closer look

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Counter is classified as a defensive move along with shielding and rolling. Counter is the "true" paper (attacks being rock) while shielding and other defensive moves are soft paper (used to gain neutral footing when in a negative situation)

 

[Vro]

Have you thought about counter OoS? Have you!?

 

[Impersonator]

Have you thought about counter OoS? Have you!?

Im not familiar with the meaning of OoS.

 

[bertbusdriver]

Im not familiar with the meaning of OoS.

out of shield

 

[Impersonator]

out of shield

ah thanks, now i know what the post meant. And no, I dont think anyone would ever counter out of shield >.>

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Have you thought about counter OoS? Have you!?

The ultimate slap in the face. Ken style.

 

[booshk]

ah thanks, now i know what the post meant. And no, I dont think anyone would ever counter out of shield >.>

well... it happens.. not too many people use it, or use it a lot but it has been done..
jus sayin..

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's offensive AND defensive. What a stupid question.

 

[mastermoo420]

Down with aerials! SPECIAL MOVES ONLY! Shield-breaker can take the place of f-smash. Over-B can be used in many different ways. Up-B can kill and recover. Counter can... counter. GO SPECIAL MOVES. Obviously, they are the best, lol.

 

[Steelia]

I would say... MARTH's Counter is more of a Defensive move. You wouldn't be using it to punish something like Ganondorf's Warlock Punch; you'd be jumping behind him and taking advantage of his charged-lag state versus just getting a small little Counter in. Counter'd be more suited for incoming Fire Fox's, to prevent damage on yourself if you don't feel confident your tilts will be enough to block (or you got a small shield or something).

In retrospect, I see ROY's Counter as being more towards Offensive. I don't really think any one'd use a Roy Counter to block off small jabs, no, Marth's can do that and gives the same knockback to keep opponents at a fair distance... Roy's just kind of hits them, keeping them within reach regardless. Like Ganon's Warlock Punch... you'd take the time to get in front of that sucker and hit him back with all the force you've got, even at the risk of incorrectly timing your Counter. Takes a WHOLE lot of damage, and there's a high chance you wouldn't get the opportunity to use it on him again... Sounds way more of an Offensive move than a Defensive.

Marth's pushes people away, regardless of what move they used... Jabbing you pretty nicely? Counter, shove 'em off.

Roy's punishes stronger moves... If you're getting jabbed like crazy, better think of something else to use. But if you're opponent's coming in with a Warlock Punch, Bowser/Yoshi butt bombs, then hey, why not sneak in some lovely hurt?

 

[Impersonator]

@GrimTuesday

Someone either didn't read the whole post or just doesn't get the "pick a side" concept.

 

[Impersonator]

I would say... MARTH's Counter is more of a Defensive move. You wouldn't be using it to punish something like Ganondorf's Warlock Punch; you'd be jumping behind him and taking advantage of his charged-lag state versus just getting a small little Counter in. Counter'd be more suited for incoming Fire Fox's, to prevent damage on yourself if you don't feel confident your tilts will be enough to block (or you got a small shield or something).

In retrospect, I see ROY's Counter as being more towards Offensive. I don't really think any one'd use a Roy Counter to block off small jabs, no, Marth's can do that and gives the same knockback to keep opponents at a fair distance... Roy's just kind of hits them, keeping them within reach regardless. Like Ganon's Warlock Punch... you'd take the time to get in front of that sucker and hit him back with all the force you've got, even at the risk of incorrectly timing your Counter. Takes a WHOLE lot of damage, and there's a high chance you wouldn't get the opportunity to use it on him again... Sounds way more of an Offensive move than a Defensive.

Marth's pushes people away, regardless of what move they used... Jabbing you pretty nicely? Counter, shove 'em off.

Roy's punishes stronger moves... If you're getting jabbed like crazy, better think of something else to use. But if you're opponent's coming in with a Warlock Punch, Bowser/Yoshi butt bombs, then hey, why not sneak in some lovely hurt?

Thanks for this elaborated response. You're the first one to do so, I appreciate it. On a side note, if i was playing Marth and some ganon tried warlock punching me, I would straight up counter it, since counter gives out the same knockback and power and the move that it absorbed. Nice way to refresh other moves too. That's just me though.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

@GrimTuesday

Someone either didn't read the whole post or just doesn't get the "pick a side" concept.

I read the post, I was pointing out how stupid it was.

Why should I have to pick between one of them? It is both. It's like if I asked you "Who gave birth to you?, oh, and you can't say it was your mum". You asked a question and then told people they couldn't say the answer.

 

[Xaltis]

I read the post, I was pointing out how stupid it was.

Why should I have to pick between one of them? It is both. It's like if I asked you "Who gave birth to you?, oh, and you can't say it was your mum". You asked a question and then told people they couldn't say the answer.

LOL someone is mad they didn't really get the question. Go to the 12 year old threads son.
Anyways counter is both but if i had to pick a side i would say defensive. Reason why is because people often use it to get out of pressure or to safely return to the ground after being sent to the air.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Thanks for this elaborated response. You're the first one to do so, I appreciate it. On a side note, if i was playing Marth and some ganon tried warlock punching me, I would straight up counter it, since counter gives out the same knockback and power and the move that it absorbed. Nice way to refresh other moves too. That's just me though.

...you're talking about brawl right?

Marth's melee counter has set damage and just barely more knockback than a jab.

And refreshing moves isn't that important in melee.

 

[Pengie]

.
Marth's melee counter has set damage and just barely more knockback than a jab.

That doesn't stop it from completely wrecking my recovery with its knockback >__>

 

[Grim Tuesday]

LOL someone is mad they didn't really get the question. Go to the 12 year old threads son.
Anyways counter is both but if i had to pick a side i would say defensive. Reason why is because people often use it to get out of pressure or to safely return to the ground after being sent to the air.

I got the question, I'm obviously more mature than you considering your trolling in that post, disrespect to my intelligence because of my age, etc...

It is defensive as it is used to defend against attacks, and offensive because it damages the enemy. In other words, not either but both.

 

[Xaltis]

I got the question, I'm obviously more mature than you considering your trolling in that post, disrespect to my intelligence because of my age, etc...

It is defensive as it is used to defend against attacks, and offensive because it damages the enemy. In other words, not either but both.

Btw for you and everyone that was uh... (dont know his username) but it was Luis posting on my account not actually me so don't be hatin on you bud Xaltis XD

 

[Impersonator]

Well thanks to all of you for your information, I can now come up with a conclusion. Counter can be used either defensively or offensively, really depends of the situation and player's style.

 

[azianraven]

Well thanks to all of you for your information, I can now come up with a conclusion. Counter can be used either defensively or offensively, really depends of the situation and player's style.

You can say that for just about every move in the game.

 

[toadturtle3]

I honestly think Marth's counter is defensive and Roy's counter is offensive. When I'm Marth I'll use counter when I know I'm going to be hit and I can't think of a better way out of it. It's a reaction to their offense that causes me to activate it. Maybe that's a ledge hop counter, escaping an advancing falco's lasers, or a firefox coming in at a tough angle.

When I'm roy though, I feel like counter is one of my only killing moves. When I play anyone good they know to DI away from his sweetspot so fsmash never connects right. I get frustrated and counter becomes a part of offense. I plan to find a situation to kill them with it. It is certainly not a defensive reaction at that point.

 

[Uck]

Counter is a defensive move.When someone attacks you he can leave himself open for a counter attack.You can't counter attack without defending the initial attack first.

 

[finalcloud13]

It's called a counter attack so let's categorize it under attack.

 

[cjugs]

Marth's is just what it's called that's a counter so you are pretty much saying in general is a counter offensive or defensive. Roy's is just broken. :D