Archangel
Smash Hero
Insert character here as you see fit. This should help clear out all the individual Marth vs threads appearing.
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Marth vs __________ Help.
- Thread starter Archangel
- Start date
Archangel
Smash Hero
I'll start it out by saying.....wtf vs Kirby.
First off what is a Kirby? I know how to win the match but It's not as easy as I feel it should be..
First off what is a Kirby? I know how to win the match but It's not as easy as I feel it should be..
OverLord
Smash Ace
Kirby can't threat you at all actually, so you just have to play careful and you will win easily.
Do not commit that much/at all, Kirby is gonna wait to roll behind you and get a grab in, be as gay as you can.
Do not commit that much/at all, Kirby is gonna wait to roll behind you and get a grab in, be as gay as you can.
Archangel
Smash Hero
aww I hate playing gay.
-ShadowPhoenix-
Smash Bash
Marth's gameplay revolves around being a homosexual.
-ShadowPhoenix-
Smash Bash
Double post cuz idc
Any recommended approaches for Falcon???
... besides like DD -> grab
Any recommended approaches for Falcon???
... besides like DD -> grab
Archangel
Smash Hero
After about 1 year of trying to I think the best approach against falcon is....none.
the_CAM_factor
Smash Journeyman
kirby is going to going to mostly be trying to grab and dthrow, use your superior range and movement to avoid this. he is slow and abuse your speed to apply pressure. watch out for his cc because most of the time he is going to be moving around with his *** on the ground. if throw a laggy move like fsmash too much, he will shield or ruol behind you and will peg you with his fsmash
Archangel
Smash Hero
I'll convert a Match or 2 and Send it your way.
For the record I win almost all the time Its just not as easy as I feel it should be for some reason. I know the MU and all but still feels like Kirby has a shot when he shouldn't...*Shrugs*.
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In a Marth vs. __________ Marth always loses.
_________ is silence, and silence scares him because it leaves him to think about his sexuality and how it troubles him and Caeda. She knows. She pretends to not see the playboys under the sheets, but... she does. So Marth always has his Mimi and Gaga blasting in his room. So, you will never have help with this match up. ________ wins. ALWAYS.
_________ is silence, and silence scares him because it leaves him to think about his sexuality and how it troubles him and Caeda. She knows. She pretends to not see the playboys under the sheets, but... she does. So Marth always has his Mimi and Gaga blasting in his room. So, you will never have help with this match up. ________ wins. ALWAYS.
OverLord
Smash Ace
If the Falcon is DD camping on the ground, earn space with DD>Dtilt, sometimes if you are pretty sure what is the movement of your opponent, you can DashAttack his DD.
If the Falcon is jump-happy, don't approach (unless you are in a favorable position, like under a platform and he's above you) and be very careful, use Nairs/Fairs/Utilt and DD (mostly) to intercept his approaches, and CC the **** out of his Nairs.
Bing
Smash Master
Anyone got some tips for the Marth vs. Falco MU. I have no issues vs. Fox, but its mostly the defensive thing I have trouble with vs. Falco.
Also, tips for vs. Puff. I was told to use my Range to get the first hit in, then combo from there, also DD a lot...
Also, tips for vs. Puff. I was told to use my Range to get the first hit in, then combo from there, also DD a lot...
Archangel
Smash Hero
the DD>Dtilt is such ****.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
If Kirby crouches - down tilt.
If Kirby gets frustrated with his crouch not working and starts blocking - either more down tilt or grab him.
If Kirby gets frustrated with both of those not working and starts jumping - anything but grab or down tilt.
If Kirby tries to roll through a forward smash to get a combo started - don't f-smash unless he's in the air.
Kirby plays like a ghetto Puff in this MU. Lots of crouch, roll and sidestep through laggy moves, etc. But he doesn't have Puff's massive aerial mobility to give him a way to approach from the air. So just do a lot of down tilt to counter his ground game, grab him if he starts blocking a lot (or down tilt more and get ready to cancel the down tilt into a SH dair or whatever if he tries to roll or WD through them or something gimmicky like that), and counter his aerial approaches with any of: fair, nair, side-b, up tilt, f-smash, etc. Once Kirby's airborne you can honestly do whatever.
If Kirby gets frustrated with his crouch not working and starts blocking - either more down tilt or grab him.
If Kirby gets frustrated with both of those not working and starts jumping - anything but grab or down tilt.
If Kirby tries to roll through a forward smash to get a combo started - don't f-smash unless he's in the air.
Kirby plays like a ghetto Puff in this MU. Lots of crouch, roll and sidestep through laggy moves, etc. But he doesn't have Puff's massive aerial mobility to give him a way to approach from the air. So just do a lot of down tilt to counter his ground game, grab him if he starts blocking a lot (or down tilt more and get ready to cancel the down tilt into a SH dair or whatever if he tries to roll or WD through them or something gimmicky like that), and counter his aerial approaches with any of: fair, nair, side-b, up tilt, f-smash, etc. Once Kirby's airborne you can honestly do whatever.
kevo
Smash Journeyman
I played RRR, one of the top Kirbys in the world, in a tourney set once. I got owned but I managed to at least hit him and take a few stocks. Pop him up. Control your airspace with Fsmash. Like what KirbyKaze said, don't Fsmash Kirby unless he's in the air. Utilt or Dtilt (heck ftilt if you wanna) Kirby to get him in the air.
Countering his up B is also hilarious.
Countering his up B is also hilarious.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
Fox is really the one that should give Marth more issues. Falco has to work to kill Marth, but Fox has some easy instant win buttons. Usmash, uthrow-uair, those god damn shine spikes. You can rack up a nice percentage on Fox and get primed to finish him, then you make a mistake and get sent off stage and he shine spikes you.
Against good Falcos I've learned to not be defensive. Just get in the Falcos face and try to get a grab in. Once you start comboing Falco it should be easy. With Fox I've learned you can try to get in his face and you still might get *****, even if your Marth is solid. I often have to try and bait him and get a grab off since my Marth is weak with aerial approaches.
Fox ***** anyone that's above him, and Marth is arguably the worst in the game when he's above someone onstage.
the_CAM_factor
Smash Journeyman
powershielding falco lasers can really help to scare falco and let you get in on him. dont abuse it too much or he will start to wiff them. learn to edge guard falco because you can not afford to miss one.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Puff is a challenge of how creative your walling can be, I think. And a massive trial in conditioning her when she's on the ground. Her moveset is pretty narrow, so the more tricks, proficiency with moves outside of fair, and even gimmicks you have the more successful your wall will be against her. Puff doesn't like it when people are creative because it means she has to have subtle variations of relatively simple things, which is harder than using different moves for different situations altogether.
I disagree with most of BRLNK's generalizations but I think you probably need to play out of shield more effectively. Idea was saying you jump a lot in the regional thread. That sort of thing will get you killed against Falco more than it will versus Fox (especially out of shield and for a variety of reasons). So yeah... shield and movement game would be good things to start on. Learn the timing for WD oos after his shine, and sometimes just wait in shield to see if he's willing to do an early aerial so you can WD oos on retreat early aerial (or maybe counterattack with fair if it's appropriate) or shield grab non-retreat ones.
I disagree with most of BRLNK's generalizations but I think you probably need to play out of shield more effectively. Idea was saying you jump a lot in the regional thread. That sort of thing will get you killed against Falco more than it will versus Fox (especially out of shield and for a variety of reasons). So yeah... shield and movement game would be good things to start on. Learn the timing for WD oos after his shine, and sometimes just wait in shield to see if he's willing to do an early aerial so you can WD oos on retreat early aerial (or maybe counterattack with fair if it's appropriate) or shield grab non-retreat ones.
Wake
Smash Master
I just realized how much I hate the Puff MU as Marth...
Bing
Smash Master
I agree with David, I actually have very few issues with Fox, yeah he can shine spike you, but like, that can simply be fixed by playing smart and not going near ledges unless your guarding...
The Puff match up is terrible, and its hard to work on because I only know two puff players, Kyle and Andrea. So... yeah XD
The Puff match up is terrible, and its hard to work on because I only know two puff players, Kyle and Andrea. So... yeah XD
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
What did you disagree with? I've learned you need to pressure Falco and not let him control the tempo of the match, and that unless your aerial game is solid you need to bait Fox into grabs.
You can avoid going near ledges, but it won't stop Fox from knocking you towards ledges.
Archangel
Smash Hero
Thanks for that. *noted*
As for Falco/Fox/Puff
Falco - get your shield reflection game up. If you can reflect 40% or more of Falco's lasers it is enough to make him tentative. Learn to mix up heavy and light shielding as well as your OOS options. Once you get a grab toss that mother****er off stage and don't let him come back.
Fox - I agree with M2K here DD camp try to create the illusion your as fast as Fox(your not) but I noticed it tends to shake fox players up when you do that with any character just make sure your in control of your movement. Bait grab, get grab, get ***** fox. End of discussion.
Puff - **** puff.
Bing
Smash Master
Quick Question, I dont need help with the whole match up, but which throw is best used on Ganon, Ive basically been using everything but the up throw, mostly for getting him off stage. Any tips?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I know a lot of Marths that say Falco is the harder one and for a variety of good reasons. Falco shuts down Marth's dash dance and movement game far more profoundly than Fox does.
I would add that Falco has a comparably powerful edgeguard on Marth. If you mess up and go offstage versus Falco, it's not exactly difficult to spike Marth in that position with his massive dair (or hog edge and start that kind of edgeguard) but you seem to feel that Fox is the only one that can do that.
I dunno. I just think "easy instant win buttons" is a gross exaggeration and you're severely downplaying Falco's stuff against Marth. You're also omitting that Fox as a character is far more susceptible to SDI and CC escapes than Falco.
Archangel
Smash Hero
I tend to mix up Fthrow and Dthrow. Uthrow only if will get them on a platform so you can safely follow up. Bthrow is kind of a waste simply because Dthrow is better.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Whichever throw will put them closest to the edge.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
I've heard many Marths say that as well, I guess I was just going by my experiences, Fox by far has given me more issues. Yes, Falco's spike can also be nasty to deal with as Marth, but just something about the shine spike, the way it can completely prevents you from recovering even if you're at a very low percent, it irks me. Sometimes I'll feel like I'm demolishing a fox, I makes some mistakes or get sent off stage and all of a sudden I'm shine spiked. Plus the general consensus seems to be that Fox/Marth is even, while Marth beats Falco. Also there's the plain fact that Fox is much faster than Falco, he gets in Marth's face easier. When I'm at 90% against Falco, I'm not too terribly concerned, just keep up my game and don't do anything stupid. When I'm at the same percent against Fox, I get pretty stressed to avoid getting grabbed and uthrown. If I mess up my DI its basically death, unless I can tech on a platform.
the_CAM_factor
Smash Journeyman
many marths will argue that the match up is in falcos favor. i could care less though its a fun match up
makoforce
Smash Ace
Marth vs Fox is most definately in our favor. People dont even pick fox vs marth anymore. While Falco on ther other hand is in our favor. The more well known marths are just doing it wrong. The only thing different with the MU is than the falcos are more technically sound.
the_CAM_factor
Smash Journeyman
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
It's okay to base your perception off personal experience and think the MU is miles and miles easier than the Fox MU. I'm just saying that I think you'll find that Falco is not the walk in the park you make him out to be.
Similarly, I think your huge sweeping generalizations are... inaccurate. Particularly regarding there being a consensus that Fox beats Marth.
I also greatly disagree with how you perceive combos in the MU but it's entirely possible you don't know how to DI against Fox effectively or consistently make horrible decisions when you're breaking out of his launch combos. For the record, I think being forced to tech on a platform can be quite horrible for Marth because it's a situation where Fox's heavy knockback and fast recovery time after landing from an aerial are accentuated.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
I never really meant that Falco was in any way an easy MU, its far from it. Falcos that are more skilled than me can give me huge nightmares with their lasers and combos, my original point was that Fox should be tougher for Marth than Falco, not that either MU is in any way easy. Also my perception was that the consensus is Fox/Marth is even, not that its in Fox's favor. But yes, my combo DI is quite bad, mainly because I don't get many opportunities to practice it anymore, and you can't really practice it on your own, you need a skilled opponent. I don't even have a non-laggy TV.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
The magic secret to combo DI against Fox as Marth is to DI one way on the u-throw and the other way on the up air.
This will generally keep you from being hit by multiple up airs.
I personally see Falco as the bigger threat to Fox because Marth is very good at the baiting game and Falco narrows this a lot. I also generally think his pressure is better because of viable double shines, unCCable dairs, and their ilk.
But yeah... I dunno. I mean, I see where you're coming from with "Fox kills Marth easier", it's just that I think Falco has better just-about-everything-else on Marth.
*shrug*
This will generally keep you from being hit by multiple up airs.
I personally see Falco as the bigger threat to Fox because Marth is very good at the baiting game and Falco narrows this a lot. I also generally think his pressure is better because of viable double shines, unCCable dairs, and their ilk.
But yeah... I dunno. I mean, I see where you're coming from with "Fox kills Marth easier", it's just that I think Falco has better just-about-everything-else on Marth.
*shrug*
Bing
Smash Master
...okay so Im going to jump in here, based upon personal experience, I find Falco to be the more difficult MU because yes he shuts down our ability to move around as we should, Interupts our combos better, CAN kill us easier then Fox(I mean with our recovery, once they laser us below the stage, you might as well say **** it.) Where as Fox, does ahve many options, but his ability to interupt combos isnt as great, and he cant shut down our recovery with lasers. Yes he can U-Throw to U-air us to death, but I feel(personally) that you can get around that.
Btw David, Love the DP, Digimon 4 lyfe
Btw David, Love the DP, Digimon 4 lyfe
Archangel
Smash Hero
Falco and Fox Is a matter of personal difficulty I think if you anti-laser game is great Falco is easier if your anti-laser game is not then it is difficult. At the same time if your OOS game is limited or non-existent Fox will **** your **** up but if your OOS game is good you should be able to beat fox.
Bing
Smash Master
Im actually terrible with my shield game, for example whenever I go to grab from shield, I always hit z instead of Z, so like, thats screws me up huge, I also gotta work on my Wave dashing out of Shield... XD
Archangel
Smash Hero
When your only options are shield grab, Dodge, and Roll....you are very limited. Learning to WD OOS or Aerial OOS will change your life. Make sure you master it before you start trying to apply it though.
the_CAM_factor
Smash Journeyman
wavedashing out of shield is magic
Bing
Smash Master
yeah Im working on that now, Im a very aggro marth, but when I get caught in my shield Im screwed....
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
My ability to move around is already shut down because at heart I'm a Link main, I'm accustomed to not having those kinds of mobility options. I play Marth to deal with the fact Link has miserble MUs with the spacies, falcon and sheik (also why Project M is like a godsend to me).
In general if my opponent is better at being aggressive, especially with spacies, I'll lose. When I'm allowed to be aggressive I tend to do much better. Basically I know how to and am capable of being aggressive, its just that a lot of people are better at it than me.