Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

[Salaad]

A rising Dair? or just don't jump off at all and maybe do a ledgehopped Dair.

 

[pyrotek7x7]

I'm not sure what that means.

I guess making sure you're going up when you do the Dair would help, because usually I'm at the peak or going down. But it's really hard to hit them when you're going up. >_>

What's a ledgehopped Dair?

 

[Smash G 0 D]

You can press down on the C-stick during a jump to do a rising spike.

Ledgehopped Spike: Fall off ledge into a quick jump and then spike them. Good for edgeguarding and opponent from the bottom or side.

Done by falling off ledge (pressing away on C-stick or down on control stick) then jumping immediately or after a few frames (depending on where you want to hit them, from bottom or side). Then C-stick down for spike. It becomes quite a natural thing to be able to do after a while.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

This is a general question that could be asked in the melee discussion forum, but I'd just like to clarify a bit on DI.

I am reading a guide by Doraki which states that when I get knocked off the stage, "to survive, DI to the perpendicular of your trajectory and preferably upwards, while ASDIng towards the stage with the C-stick."

So the question is, does using the C-stick to ASDI toward the stage in addition to the control stick improve marth's DI? I've always used just the control stick, so this may be an innovation to my game.

 

[ArcNatural]

This is a general question that could be asked in the melee discussion forum, but I'd just like to clarify a bit on DI.

I am reading a guide by Doraki which states that when I get knocked off the stage, "to survive, DI to the perpendicular of your trajectory and preferably upwards, while ASDIng towards the stage with the C-stick."

So the question is, does using the C-stick to ASDI toward the stage in addition to the control stick improve marth's DI? I've always used just the control stick, so this may be an innovation to my game.

Easiest way for me to explain how the ASDI c-stick, smash DI, and DI works is to do a Fox vs Peach on FD. Let the Fox sh drill Peach without fastfalling. First just DI away. Then just hold away on the C-stick, then try to smash DI with the joystick away. You should easily tell the difference. ASDI is basically half the distance of what a Smash DI would be.

So what Doraki is explaining is that try to do the real DI/smash DI that is your best chance of survival with the joystick, and use the ASDI (since it is practically 100% since you can hold the c-stick before the hit) to get a good initial DI. Basically you have a much better chance of doing the ASDI towards the stage and doing normal DI with the best chance of survival rather than trying to smash DI towards the stage. Because if you miss the smash DI your dead.

This is why on Fox upthrows to upairs. If I remember I try to ASDI up and smash DI (I do the "air dashdance" method to get out of them. Since I think Fox has less of a chance to get the second hit of the upair if your slightly higher and getting the smash DI. Since I do the "air dashdance" method to try to get out of upthrow -> upair, trying to ASDI left or right is pointless since I may smash DI in the opposite direction of my ASDI and kill myself. Now that I think about it though, ASDI down while DIing left or right may save you from low upthrow upairs that would be just enough to kill you with just left or right DI.

 

[Retroking2000]

Easiest way for me to explain how the ASDI c-stick, smash DI, and DI works is to do a Fox vs Peach on FD. Let the Fox sh drill Peach without fastfalling. First just DI away. Then just hold away on the C-stick, then try to smash DI with the joystick away. You should easily tell the difference. ASDI is basically half the distance of what a Smash DI would be.

So what Doraki is explaining is that try to do the real DI/smash DI that is your best chance of survival with the joystick, and use the ASDI (since it is practically 100% since you can hold the c-stick before the hit) to get a good initial DI. Basically you have a much better chance of doing the ASDI towards the stage and doing normal DI with the best chance of survival rather than trying to smash DI towards the stage. Because if you miss the smash DI your dead.

This is why on Fox upthrows to upairs. If I remember I try to ASDI up and smash DI (I do the "air dashdance" method to get out of them. Since I think Fox has less of a chance to get the second hit of the upair if your slightly higher and getting the smash DI. Since I do the "air dashdance" method to try to get out of upthrow -> upair, trying to ASDI left or right is pointless since I may smash DI in the opposite direction of my ASDI and kill myself. Now that I think about it though, ASDI down while DIing left or right may save you from low upthrow upairs that would be just enough to kill you with just left or right DI.

nice post but yeah i agree the cstick out proirtizes the control stick so you can achieve a detached influence in any hit.

 

[knightpraetor]

yes ASDI adds like 1-2% according to magus...in other words..not too big a deal but somewhat useful...

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

yes ASDI adds like 1-2% according to magus...in other words..not too big a deal but somewhat useful...

So I can only achieve 98-99% of marth's DI with the control stick, but adding in the C-stick improves the DI by 1-2%? That small percentage is so small it's like in the margin of error.

 

[ArcNatural]

So I can only achieve 98-99% of marth's DI with the control stick, but adding in the C-stick improves the DI by 1-2%? That small percentage is so small it's like in the margin of error.

Depends on what you use it for. For big hits that will most likely kill you it's chances of helping you are fairly little. Using it to help people miss multihit attacks such as drillshines (each hit of the drill will cause ASDI as long as you hold the c-stick) or Fox upairs help give them a chance to miss. That being said I still try to use it, every little bit helps.

 

[Magus420]

The only times using the c-stick for DI is at all useful is when you either intend to ASDI in a direction that is different from the direction you want to use for the DI with the analog stick (the DI that changes the angle of knockback) or to ensure a specific ASDI when attempting to SDI with the analog to escape something, since you ASDI in the direction you hold on the analog just the same as you would with the c-stick only the c-stick direction when held will take priority over the direction of the analog when both are used.

Like if you get u-smashed by Fox and you hold away on the analog and down on the c-stick you might live 1% longer on occasion (2% might be possible with really weak attacks on high ceilings) than just away on the analog since you'll instead ASDI down, which is in the opposite direction of the blast zone, as opposed to ASDIing away which is parallel to it.

If you get d-aired by Fox and hold away on the c-stick you can get the same effect of the ASDI on each hit as if you held away on the analog, but also be able to attempt SDIs to further move you away with the analog without missing any ASDIs on the hits like you would by just mashing away only using the analog trying to SDI.

Another use is to use the analog to get the angle of knockback as close to something you want to be hit into, and also use the c-stick to ASDI directly towards the surface (again, if they both happen to be the same direction it won't do anything different since you'll get ASDI from the analog anyway if you are holding it). So if you're on the ground while in lag about to be hit by Marth's f-smash and you want to hit the floor with your ASDI to tech off it directly out of the hit, you would DI on the analog to change the angle as low to the floor as possible (down&away in this case) while also holding straight down on the c-stick (directly towards the surface) to override the down&away ASDI from the analog, and by combining the 2 you'll be able to hit the surface to tech off of at higher damages than by just down&away for the angle and ASDI from the analog.

 

[bulgarian_kid]

Which characters do double fairs/fair -> u air in one shorthop work best on?

 

[Salaad]

Lol, I take it back after reading what UMBC said. Just test it out on different types of characters and see if you can come up with a conclusion.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Which characters do double fairs/fair -> u air in one shorthop work best on?

You should think about it on your own first before asking us. Tell us what you think, then we'll discuss it. The point is to use your brain first before going to others for the answers.

Edit: Salaad answered you before I could even say anything However, I disagree with him.

 

[bulgarian_kid]

Fair -> uair on fast fallers, double fair on medium/floaty chars.

But I think I'm wrong, that's why I asked.

 

[brawlpro]

i can't do double shhfled fairs, is it just my slow fingers?

 

[Salaad]

i can't do double shhfled fairs, is it just my slow fingers?

Just get the timing right. I use X for SH, Z for the first Fair and C-stick for the second Fair to control DI. Practice it and you will be able to do it on command.

 

[brawlpro]

ah, i'm just too stupid, i need to use X and the c-stick thank you =)

 

[Bailey]

What is a wavedashed I keep hearing about is it good because all my friend who use Link (the best character in the game because of his Up-B on the ground is unbeatable) don't know and I don't know either. Is it helpful?

 

[balladechina212]

What is a wavedashed I keep hearing about is it good because all my friend who use Link (the best character in the game because of his Up-B on the ground is unbeatable) don't know and I don't know either. Is it helpful?

3000+ posts
Mindgamez

 

[Bailey]

lol I kid you not. MM anyone?

 

[Suntan Luigi]

I need help with Marth vs Peach. What are the simple things you should and should not do against peach? What to do when she's floating,etc.

 

[Scar]

lol I kid you not. MM anyone?

i will mm u my link will raep u wit upB kekeke

 

[Bailey]

i will mm u my link will raep u wit upB kekeke

LOL. You play another character????

 

[Scar]

LOL. You play another character????

Dammit Bailey why do you know me so well. MM RETRACTED.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

I need help with Marth vs Peach. What are the simple things you should and should not do against peach? What to do when she's floating,etc.

I think I posted an answer to this like 2 days ago. You should try the search function, cause I've seen this question at least 10 times. Here goes the copy and paste:

Peach: This is a fairly unique match-up for marth that will definitely require a change of style.

Approaching Peach:

Peach has a high priority dash attack that can catch marth's feet when short hopping or landing, so full jumped fairs work well. Walking away from peach and waiting for her to move, then attacking her is effective. Also, jumping backwards and fairing peach works well. Since peach's main move against marth when on the ground is her dash attack, expect it when approaching her. Run up and cancel the run with a shield as necessary. If she hits the shield, then marth can either grab or jump out of the shield and dair peach.

Peach has one of the best crouch cancels in the game along with Samus. If she crouch cancels, then dairs and grabs work well. One thing that must be learned early on is to NOT HOLD DOWN. Do not crouch cancel against peach and be careful with dtilt.

Peach has turnips (watch out for the stitched face!) and many peaches love to spam them. When approaching a peach with a turnip and if she attacks while throwing one, marth's nair works well in cutting through the turnip and peach. It's best not to catch any turnips because marth can't use any moves while holding one, and it takes marth longer to throw a turnip than peach. Instead, prevent peach from grabbing more turnips by dash attacking when she predictably pulls another. However, it is possible to catch a turnip on the ground and air by pressing A when it is about to hit marth. A safer way to do the same thing is to air dodge and press A, because then marth can't be hit if he misses the turnip.

Marth has a fthrow chaingrab on peach at early percentages up to about 20%. Take advantage of it and get in a fsmash. Sometimes marth can catch peach off guard and hit her with a tippered fsmash at higher percentages if she misses the DI.

Recovering for marth:

Peach will usually try to hit marth with turnips during his recovery. When thrown horizontally at marth, avoid the turnip by either falling without a side B, jumping, swatting it away with a fair, or grabbing it. When thrown vertically down at marth, move either further in or away from the stage and delay the up B as necessary to avoid getting hit. Sometimes it is inevitable that marth will get hit by a turnip.

Defending against Peach:

When defending against a peach, if she is coming to grab then dash dance away then back in to grab her. Perform extra dash dances as necessary depending on whether she is sidestep-happy. If she dash attacks, then shield. If she is floating with a fair coming, then get the heck out of there with a wavedash (out of shield), dash, or roll as necessary. Do not attempt to out-prioritize her moves. At most, marth can preempt her moves with a fair.

Edge guarding against Peach:

When edge guarding, peach will sometimes have a jump until she has to use her up B. Try to hit peach with a fair or bair so that she has to use her up B, because it makes her recovery more difficult (no air dodge). If she has her jump, then peaches will usually either air dodge to the stage or fair. Never fsmash at peach when she is recovering, because she will always air dodge and punish marth. Use utilt instead. Peach hates the utilt, so abuse it on her. If peach has already used her jump, then the best thing to do is to make sure she lands on the ledge and not on the stage. Peach has a hard time getting from the ledge to the stage. When she is over 100%, it is usually safe to fsmash or utilt her as she rolls or jumps up on stage. Otherwise, a grab or dtilt is probably the best choice.

Note: It is sometimes possible to dair or bair peach while she is recovering depending on her height.

On most stages, peach dies at 140-150% by utilt. On Dreamland she can live up until 170-180% from an utilt. Tippered fsmashes can be very useful against peach on most levels and lead to an early death for her. She is so slow that it is hard for her to punish fsmashes other than dash attacking before marth can get off the fsmash.

 

[Stewie1288]

I'm getting better at WDing (more consistent) and I was wondering how best to incorporate it into actual play. All I really use it for is a quick WD > F-Smash or WD > Grab (when techchasing). Any other good tips?

Oh and is there a set amount of time (lag) in between WDs or is it only limited by how fast I can move my fingers?

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

I'm getting better at WDing (more consistent) and I was wondering how best to incorporate it into actual play. All I really use it for is a quick WD > F-Smash or WD > Grab (when techchasing). Any other good tips?

Oh and is there a set amount of time (lag) in between WDs or is it only limited by how fast I can move my fingers?

Like many things, learning the uses for wavedashing requires experience. Play around with it; if you get hit after a wavedash, then don't use it. Use your head to think of how wavedashing could help your game. It's very likely that there are other aspects, such as better l-cancelling, that would be more beneficial to master at this point.

Another aspect that carries over to everything is observing the animations within the game of Smash. They tell you what can be done in that period and how long to wait until performing another move. For example, when marth jumps in the air and lands on the ground, a cloud of air shows right when he lands. That cloud is there for more than just show. Similarly, when marth fthrows another marth there is a green spark; after that spark vanishes, marth may then move forward to perform another grab.

 

[Scar]

New players don't understand what wavedashing is for. A favorite line of scrubs is, "Yeah, I can wavedash, I just don't find that it helps my game."

Understanding wavedashing is understanding the game. It helps movement overall, and an important part of the wavedash itself is that it is a jump first, and then an airdodge. So all things cancellable by jumping are also cancellable by wavedashing, such as sheilds, runs, and shines.

Most things in this game honestly just come from experience, but an understanding of the game is also essential.

 

[Teczer0]

i actually played enough were i kinda just forget i do it the move is so elementary to me and im sure many people who play it more often probably feel the same...

for marth though it helps spacing tremendously and paired with DD marths are VERY scary it looks like a blur of blue hair and swords and if u play a spacie... it looks like a blur of a running,grabbing death machine

 

[Emblem Lord]

A big thanks to UMBC, my boy Bobby and Tec0 for handling those questions that I loath. >_>

 

[Teczer0]

<3 emblem lord u own the marth boards >_>

maybe i should play marth again for the next tourney

now to think of an intelligent question to ask u

 

[Stewie1288]

I know it was somewhat of a nub question, but I did need an answer and /salute to you guys for repeating yourselves. Thanks. =)

 

[LOL_Master]

oh man that's super tough, i can''t wavedash

 

[Retroking2000]

Im a capable Marth player and have all the advanced techniques down. The thing is I have a friend who is unbelievable with Sheik . Our matches are usually wire to wire, sometimes he ra*es me though, and I was wondering what is the best way to abuse a Sheik player as Marth?. Thanks in advance.

 

[Randizzle]

dd to grab sheik a lot. take full advantage of any opportunities to combo her and edgeguard her. keep enough pressure on her so she can't move around and needle camp you. dd grab a lot.

 

[AzureKiteSky]

I'm getting better at WDing (more consistent) and I was wondering how best to incorporate it into actual play. All I really use it for is a quick WD > F-Smash or WD > Grab (when techchasing). Any other good tips?

Oh and is there a set amount of time (lag) in between WDs or is it only limited by how fast I can move my fingers?

WDing's lag time will depend on the character you are using. as for good incorporation into play, the best way to think of it is to use whatever you would use after rolling. (for example: I had always wanted to be able to incorporate Marth's "amazing chain-grabbing skills" into my game play. But I was never quick enough with rolling to be able to get into position, however, after i practiced WDing, It got so much easier.)

 

[knightpraetor]

does anyone know when jiggs can start getting out of fthrow to fsmash..or wavedash fsmash rather....sometimes she jumps over it..but i think at some damages she can't? i don't understand so i get punished a lot

also second question: when i'm shielding jiggs wop what should i do? just give me a breakdown of what doesn't work..i tried wavedashing forward to try to punish him with an aerial as he retreats but i get tagged instead of him...am i doing it wrong or is it hte wrong move to try?

should i just retreat a fair out of shield to gain room?

 

[capncone]

I can wavedash fine, but I have trouble wavedashing out of a shield because I use L to shield and L to wavedash. Should I relearn wavedashing with R, or shield with R, or can I WD out using L again?

 

[Teczer0]

I can wavedash fine, but I have trouble wavedashing out of a shield because I use L to shield and L to wavedash. Should I relearn wavedashing with R, or shield with R, or can I WD out using L again?

This isnt really a marth question but watever

umm well it doesnt really matter i actually use the L to shield and WD and u can actually hold the L then jump to cancel it then air dodge in the diagonal to perform the SD but watever happens to be most comfortable my brother WD with the L and sheilds with the R weirdo

Knightpreator - i actually have a rough time too >_> i would personally try to gain more room but im just throwin stuff out there to make my self feel better T_T

 

[Retroking2000]

I'm looking to play a faster marth, one that can contend at the higher levels of play. Unfortunately, it seems that just shffl'd aerials, and spot-dodge to grab just isn't enough. Anybody have any tips on how to make my marth play just a little bit faster? .. I have been peeking( Researching) in the fox movement style and Cpt.Falcon . but thier style is to versatile to them and cant implement with marth without getting punished , by opposition

any tips on how to make my marth play just a little bit faster?