Mario's Metagame Analysis (Updated as of 3/06/2010)

[vato_break]

Well some attacks leave you with your back to the stage so fludd could be useful in that case.Other than that though mario has no kind of "brake"because capeing in either direction puts you higher in the air and does not stop momentum whatsoever.Maybe dj b-reversed fireball? idk..

 

[vato_break]

Mixups are so important for mario...it seperates the good marios...from the great ones..
so lets discuss our mixups people =)

 

[BoTastic!]

For opponents who like to block your Jabs a lot you can just jab then grab them. If that doesn't work it always better to run away after jabbing so they can miss a grab or better yet, a OOS option making them vulnerable to another attack.

 

[vato_break]

Also i would like to add, for people with short grab ranges, You can jab(which might be blocked) and then piviot cape so you can punish them right after.You can also keep jab canceling aganst their shield but, that isn't very reliable. as you can get grabed.

 

[hippiedude92]

We need to add bsticking.

Godly mixup I tell you not too many Marios cept Veggi to my knowledge do it.

 

[vato_break]

Bsicking makes you lose more aerial control(which is vital to useing mario),stutter stepping,and you can't do that fancy turn around dance! No but, bsticking isn't all that great with mario..

 

[Veggi]

He's talking about b reversal actually. Which is amazing and sexy.

Like pretending like you are jumping away or approaching with bair, but instead you pivot a fireball torwards them. You can get behind people's shields, fireball>uair, fireball>grab. Also, I started doing one jab and then jumping behind the opponent's shield, as well as doing a bair next to someone and then trying to land behind their shield with a uair.

 

[:mad:]

I've been working on my ledge play lately, since recently, I've just been hopping up.

Does that count?

 

[Veggi]

That reminds me, you can also wall jump from the edge, pivot fireball, and then grab the edge again. Really though, wall jump>bair is pretty good. Drop off>jump>fireball>uair is a nice way to get back to the stage too. Having the fireball hit can make the uair hit, and also erases the RCO lag. Pretty good if you ask me.

 

[vato_break]

oh i do this all the time nvm

 

[condemned_soul]

That reminds me, you can also wall jump from the edge, pivot fireball, and then grab the edge again. Really though, wall jump>bair is pretty good. Drop off>jump>fireball>uair is a nice way to get back to the stage too. Having the fireball hit can make the uair hit, and also erases the RCO lag. Pretty good if you ask me.

wow i need to start doing this. I usually would B-air, flag, or nuetral air when im on the ledge. I can really use this to my advantage

 

[fromundaman]

Yeah, I've been practicing this recently since 1der did it to/showed me.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mixups...

Everyone start doing Jab -> Jab2 -> F-tilt (or D-tilt). It's Mario's new and improved Jab combo. Jab Jab F-tilt does like 13%, which is good for a three hit Jab sequence (not to mention F-tilt at higher percents gets people off the stage effectively). Jab Jab D-tilt does 10%, and puts your opponent in a tough position that you can follow up better from than just doing 3 Jabs.

Just a warning, D-smash is risky to attempt since it has shorter range than D-tilt and F-tilt, but the other two attacks you have enough of a frame advantage to land.

 

[vato_break]

interesting..i'll start to do that more since jab combo is easily sheilded.By how many frames is this better than the full jab combo?

 

[Matt07]

It sounds pretty good, I mean say if you jab, jab, f-tilt, the second time you go to do it, they may shield the f-tilt and that's when you could d-tilt because it shield pokes...right?

 

[KirinBlaze]

Jab Jab Ftilt WORKS a lot better then you would think. I've been using it a lot lately. You'd all do well and take A2's advice here and use it. It's easy to preform and works very well.

Also, for the ledge talk, I do a lot of Control Stick Away from the ledge, Cape, SJBair/Dair/Pivot Fireball to get back on. Also, if they come out for a stage spike you just Cape, then Uair and it'll kick them out and let you recover fine. Pivot Fireball gets rid of RCO Lag and I believe Bair and Dair do as well. Of course this gets predictable if you do it too much so add this to your ledge game along with the other stuff mentioned here, Starked.

 

[A2ZOMG]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236603

First Jab
HB1: -2
HB2:
- no action: +4
- aerial action: -2
- air time: 2 frames

Second Jab
HB1: -4
HB2:
- no action: +5
- aerial action: -2
- air time: 3 frames

Second Jab after First Jab
- no action: +7
- air time: 5 frames

Basically, those are the numbers you need to know. You can only land Grab, Up-B, and Jab from Jab 1 on Mario. Jab2 actually has more stun time than Jab1 which is interesting. You have 7 advantage frames from landing Jab1 and Jab2.

 

[Veggi]

Are you sure that's right about Mario being able to get up tilt and not ftilt off of jab1? They come out on the same frame iirc.

Anyway, it's strange that Mario gets more hitstun off of jab2, for Luigi he gets more off of jab1.

 

[vato_break]

Anyone know how to do the reverse momentum B reversal? i know it has some thing to do with RARing i just can't pull it off consistantly.Out of 10 tries i only did it 3 times ..anyone know?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Dang, all of Mario's tilts are frame 5. Some other site said it was frame 4. *facepalm*

Then uh, all you can land from Jab1 is Jab1, Grab, and Up-B.

And uh, what exactly are you trying to do Vato?

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Anyone know how to do the reverse momentum B reversal? i know it has some thing to do with RARing i just can't pull it off consistantly.Out of 10 tries i only did it 3 times ..anyone know?

Do you mean pivoting your fireballs? You just press the opposite direction and then... fireball, lol.

 

[fromundaman]

No, reverse momentum is similar, but somewhat different.
What he's talking about is when you do a special and pivot it during the few frames after it starts that most specials can be pivotted, giving a change in momentum when you get turned around.

You have to use your fireball, then almost immediately slam the other direction (Not so early as to get a cape, but I believe you have to hit the opposite direction just as he sticks his hand out.)

 

[A2ZOMG]

B reversals are not very hard....just usually impractical.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

No, reverse momentum is similar, but somewhat different.
What he's talking about is when you do a special and pivot it during the few frames after it starts that most specials can be pivotted, giving a change in momentum when you get turned around.

You have to use your fireball, then almost immediately slam the other direction (Not so early as to get a cape, but I believe you have to hit the opposite direction just as he sticks his hand out.)

Oh, I know what your talking about now, I've done that a few times. I didn't really like the results but meh.

 

[vato_break]

No, reverse momentum is similar, but somewhat different.
What he's talking about is when you do a special and pivot it during the few frames after it starts that most specials can be pivotted, giving a change in momentum when you get turned around.

You have to use your fireball, then almost immediately slam the other direction (Not so early as to get a cape, but I believe you have to hit the opposite direction just as he sticks his hand out.)

I think this is what i'm talking about i do it sometimes i just didn't know how i did it.

EDIT actually i'm not taking about this one either,this one is simple to do...the one im talking about is you run,rar,then piviot fireball? i think im still unsure but, i unerstand what your talking about..the use for this one is that it appears you are going foward but, you givin a "push-back" but, mario's body is is faceing foward the whole time exept when you reverse aerial rush.

 

[fromundaman]

I think this is what i'm talking about i do it sometimes i just didn't know how i did it.

EDIT actually i'm not taking about this one either,this one is simple to do...the one im talking about is you run,rar,then piviot fireball? i think im still unsure but, i unerstand what your talking about..the use for this one is that it appears you are going foward but, you givin a "push-back" but, mario's body is is faceing foward the whole time exept when you reverse aerial rush.

Oh, then yeah. That's just what XeroXen said.


And I dunno, I like B-reversed fireballs every now and then. They can be a good mixup. For example: Run away, then SH B-reverse a fireball so you land next to them as the fireball. Another example is ledge-drop, wall jump, and B-reverse a fireball, since it gets you and a fireball onstage at almost the same time and can allow you to follow it up (This one is stolen from 1der).

 

[A2ZOMG]

Oh that, I do that sporadically with G&W, but I forget to most of the time in general. Retreating projectile barrages are awesome.

Most of the time I'm just fullhopping backwards pretending to B-air and then B reverse when I do that kind of thing.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Ohhh, you're all talking about Wave Bouncing? xD
It is a very nice mix up at times, like formun said, Run Away, WBFireball, anything can really throw them off. I do this a lot when baiting opponents to chase me.

 

[vato_break]

its hard to explain what im talking about. This one gives you a backward pushback.I know theres another one that sends you into the direction of the breversed fireball,the one im speaking of pushes you back kinda....maybe i'm crazy?

EDIT:nevermind guys figured it out it was wavebounceing...its hard with out bsticking.. >_<

 

[KirinBlaze]

Meh, I think Wave Bouncing is pretty simple without BSticking. I use it a lot with Link, maybe I just have enough practice? xD

 

[vato_break]

Wavebounceing marios fireball is hard...maybe there is some kind of secret because in the hour i actually practiced doing it,it only came out like 15 times? maybe.. tell me your secrets kirin?

 

[SuSa]

Kirin, I think you are thinking about B-reversals... many people seem to confuse them with wavebouncing.

 

[fromundaman]

Yeah. I didn't think you could wavebounce fireballs... or maybe I'm mixing things up too?

 

[SuSa]

No, you can wavebounce fireballs. It's just harder.

 

[vato_break]

yeah,if you set your special to C-stick you can can wavebounce a fireball easily,but without it i'm not really even sure how to recreate it.I've done it by RARing but,i can't do it consistently.

 

[SuSa]

You can do it if you mash left/right quickly enough, I don't know the exact input though.

 

[fromundaman]

yeah,if you set your special to C-stick you can can wavebounce a fireball easily,but without it i'm not really even sure how to recreate it.I've done it by RARing but,i can't do it consistently.

I don't B-stick, so this might be a stupid question, but how would you wavebounce a fireball with B-sticking? I didn't think you could do a neutral B with it...

 

[vato_break]

At a 45(?) degree angle you can do a fireball,though B-sticking is the easiest way to do this.

 

[Famous]

I don't b-stick with the c-stick...Hence why I can cape dash and wavebounce fireballs more effectively

 

[fromundaman]

I don't b-stick with the c-stick...Hence why I can cape dash and wavebounce fireballs more effectively

Wait... I thought B-sticking was setting the C-stick to specials... How could you B-stick without the C-stick?