Mario's Gimping Discussion! This Week: Zero Suit Samus

[:mad:]

Why don't we discuss someone that's easy to gimp?
Our self esteem will only go down if we keep doing the impossibles.

If you want my opinion, .

 

[Judge Judy]

OP has been updated...lol at my summary...

@Straked: as long as everyone else is ok with it

 

[:mad:]

Lol @ Explanation. So helpful.

I wouldn't mind doing Game and Watch, let's go ahead and do the 2-D man.

 

[Matt07]

GnW is impossible to gimp .

Cape his up B, guess what? Hey get's another one.

Attempt to Cape stall, guess what? Up B will stage spike you and kill you.

FLUDD? Won't do anything since GnW's always recover too low.

 

[fromundaman]

Well... Looks like that covers it. Next?

(J/k. I just don't have anything to say really. You can't even really spike G&W effectively since he'll just UpB right through it with those **** invul frames of his.)

 

[Judge Judy]

Alright, OP updated for G&W.

 

[KirinBlaze]

I never try and gimp Game&Watch. Good ones recover too low and going offstage after him at that point is too risky since his UpB is a pretty fast and a quick hit that can stage spike you if you're not ready for it. That and he can edge hog you easily with it from below if you get greedy. One's who stay on the high side of things I like to Bair them back offstage and if they're far out I'll go for the cape glide Uair/Nair but it won't always work since GnW's Fair is good in terms of priority.

 

[Matador]

G&W is someone you won't find me trying to gimp. His upB has invincibility frames for like...ever...and can stagespike. Meteor won't do much unless their reflexes are bad since his upB meteor cancels. Fireballs can be easily bucketed. Fair and Bair outrange cape and all of our aerials. UpB -> Dair is very hard to punish successfully. Cape after upB just gives him another upB...

However, if he's forced to use his upB far from the stage, his options are rather limited (and predictable). Grab the ledge if he needs it and keep your invinicibility.

Seriously, trying to gimp G&W is just an exercise in futility. You'll only ever get the gimp if he lets you have it.

The difference between this and Jiggz...meteor does NOTHING to him. Cape HELPS him. Fireballs are USELESS. And trying to gimp him can easily get your *** gimped. Why we settled for "lol, jiggs can't be gimped" is beyond me -_-

 

[Judge Judy]

The difference between this and Jiggz...meteor does NOTHING to him. Cape HELPS him. Fireballs are USELESS. And trying to gimp him can easily get your *** gimped. Why we settled for "lol, jiggs can't be gimped" is beyond me -_-

We can go back to it later, I just didn't get much from our discussion other than that.

 

[Matador]

We can go back to it later, I just didn't get much from our discussion other than that.

Fair enough. THIS guy right here is someone we shouldn't be trying to gimp, it's too dangerous.

MK is just as bad imo.

 

[Spoonbob]

...because you won't be gimping Jiggs. It's not nearly as dangerous to go after her offstage, this is true, but you won't be killing a Jiggs by keeping them offstage with cape/FLUDD. You can get some decent damage in, yeah, and a meteor spike is plausible, but you will not a gimp unless the Jiggs is missing a large part of their brain. :|Stop underestimating her.

Anyway. G&W also seems mostly done...lol. I have really nothing to say for that. ;o

 

[Matador]

...because you won't be gimping Jiggs. It's not nearly as dangerous to go after her offstage, this is true, but you won't be killing a Jiggs by keeping them offstage with cape/FLUDD. You can get some decent damage in, yeah, and a meteor spike is plausible, but you will not a gimp unless the Jiggs is missing a large part of their brain. :|Stop underestimating her.

Get over yourself. Nobody's underestimating anyone. The main thing that'll be gimping Jiggz is her vulnerability to meteors since she cannot meteor cancel. Not Fludd. Not cape. She has to waste the majority of her tiny jumps to try and return to the stage where she's now vulnerable to

A.) Another ledgedropped Spike (since recovering away from the stage would exhaust valuable jumps at this point)
B.) Bair stagespike
C.) Some other aerial to make you waste your remaining jumps, which is probably numbered around "two" by now.​

What's her answer to fireballing? What's her answer to a meteor? All she has to defend herself is her aerial mobility, long range recovery, and airdodging. Cape > Every attack she has if push comes to shove. She's lightweight, so our aerials could actually kill her 100+. She has no Dair spike or inhale. She has no projectile to attack her. Nothing to deter a gimp-happy Mario.

Why SHOULD I settle for "Jiggz cannot be gimped, just go for damage" when your answer to MY question "well...why" is simply "Just...because she can't." You guys haven't said ANYthing. I know I've gimped my share of Jiggz players on occasion with the same strategies I've just mentioned, so I'm just wondering what you guys know that these players didn't.

 

[fromundaman]

Hmmm... If Jiggs does a rising airdodge to avoid the cape, can't she appear behind Mario before it ends and start a somewhat short Bair WoP? (Supposing she hasn't already been spiked and thus still has a number of jumps left.)

Also, on some stages she can sing cancel to refresh her jumps. How would we gimp this? (Bair Stagespike maybe? Can we reach her if she tries it? I don't actually know too much about this tech.)

 

[Matador]

Hmmm... If Jiggs does a rising airdodge to avoid the cape, can't she appear behind Mario before it ends and start a somewhat short Bair WoP? (Supposing she hasn't already been spiked and thus still has a number of jumps left.)

Also, on some stages she can sing cancel to refresh her jumps. How would we gimp this? (Bair Stagespike maybe? Can we reach her if she tries it? I don't actually know too much about this tech.)

Exactly the kind of discussion we SHOULD be doing. Not this "can't do it, don't try" Bull****

 

[Judge Judy]

Exactly the kind of discussion we SHOULD be doing. Not this "can't do it, don't try" Bull****

Yah, our MK discussion was really good, but our Jigglypuff discussion was lack-luster to say the least.

BTW Matador, did you read the PM I recently sent to you?

 

[Matador]

Just did. I'm sending back one now.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Only thing you could do is Fludd. Use it all day, everyday since it pushes/stalls him so much. Maybe you'l get lucky and do some % on him afterwards if there's an awkward opening.

You can't gimp him unfortunately.

Fireballs are safe to an extent. Just don't shoot them blindly with no follow up thought in mind.

 

[A2ZOMG]

UGH, G&W is simply the toughest character for Mario to do anything to offstage. You really have to count on him screwing up in order to get anything on him.

If you SOMEHOW Cape him before he starts up his Up-B (more likely he will F-air you away first) that can gimp him. You could try to predict a ledgejump or him missing the sweetspot of the edge an B-airing. But seriously, nothing really works on him. <_<

 

[Ismael]

The most you can do to G&W in terms of gimping is probably just raw punishing. Ledgedrop into Uair might work if he dosn't see it coming. If he dips down low to up-b directly to the ledge you might be able to catch mid jump from the trampoline with a well spaced bair if you hop of the ledge, and you'll hopefully get a stage kill.

It's all about spacing when he's open in his recovery. He can attack after the jump while he's in his parachute but not when he's in the jump.

You can also try to quickly edge hog him, but he'll probably just fair you for a stage kill after his jump ends and your invincibility frames are over. That, or he'll go over you and onto the stage in which you can quickly uair him while he's over you and not on the stage yet. He can't fair or bair you since your under him, and if he uses his key, he'll just kill himself.

Anyway, if he's a G&W that like to go down very low and then up-b to the fullest extent of his reach for the ledge, just run off cape stall, and use your own up-b to the ledge for an edgehog.

His up-b is fast, but not as fast as ours. Be creative, but... I think we might just have to take a backseat and just let him recover.

 

[Biinii]

Baiting an aerial and FIHL to maybe start it again when he's about to land?

 

[Matador]

We have the faster upB? Wha???

 

[Judge Judy]

We have the faster upB? Wha???

Yep, we do; Mario's Up B comes out in 3 frames, G&W's comes out in 10.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah seriously, G&W's Up-B is annoyingly slow. I main G&W and I get upset when I Up-B out of shield and still get Jabbed by random bull**** before my invul frames start.

Don't get me wrong, 10 frames is GREAT for an actual attack...but for escaping things out of shield...it should have been at least 5 frames faster. Mentioning how slow it is, it really should be more powerful when you compare it to say Metaknight's Up-B. <_<

The wind effect I believe starts earlier, possibly frame 1...not that it matters much.

 

[Kanzaki]

Bucket Braking makes Game and Watch harder to kill :[


*shakes fist at A2Z

 

[bobson]

Fireballs work better than you'd expect. There isn't much he can do to avoid one offstage that isn't punishable; airdodges, aerials and particularly buckets (of course you should never give him a bucket unless a kill is assured) can all be met with a spike. It won't kill him until higher percents thanks to his ******** up-B, but at least it's some damage.

Well, on second thought, he can just move out of the way, but who does that anymore?

 

[Ismael]

We have the faster upB? Wha???

Of course we do. Mario can gimp very well but ironically can be easily gimped himself. We don't really have any fancy "recovery games" other than cape stalling to wait out invincibility frames from would-be edgehoggers. So having an extremely fast up-b helps.

Anyway, like bobson said, his ******** anti spike up-b ruins it for us. We're trieng to put this in a perspective of a "good" and "competitive" G&W. And chances are he's going to avoid half the stuff we try.

 

[Mario_ 101]

yea i think fireball -> fair is the best way to go. btw would mario's n air work? i mean like it has a pretty high priority... or would the wind just push him up before so. just a thought

 

[Ismael]

Sorry 101, G&W's upb spike cancels. Which also puts you in a bad position for a gimp. Besides, the G&W would probably avoid the fireball. Oh yeah, and G&W's upb out prioritizes Mario's nair. *sigh*

 

[fromundaman]

You could always try unplugging the opponent's controller.

*shrugs* It's worked well for me...

 

[Judge Judy]

G&W's Up B is heavly affected by FIHL, but I'm not really sure what you could do with that...

 

[Mario_ 101]

^ maybe gud in teams? other person can go for gimp while mario FLUDD's?

 

[Matador]

Bucket Braking makes Game and Watch harder to kill :[


*shakes fist at A2Z

I second this.

Jesus ****ing christ A2, why?

 

[Ismael]

^ maybe gud in teams? other person can go for gimp while mario FLUDD's?

Tourney teams always have team attack on, so you may be able to actually boost your buddy as they spike the lagged G&W. It would be epic sweetness.

I... think... we've pretty much covered G&W. Practically impossible to gimp, so go for creative punish gimping. If your not confident in handling G&W or you don't think he's open anough in his recovery, then just chill and let him recover. Maybe next time.

Maybe Snake or Dedede next Judy?

Snake = Fair spikes, 2 should finish him. Dedede = Capes, 2 should finish him. Fludd his jumps, time the first cape as he's doing the slam, and when the Dedede cancels it to attempt a ledge grab, cape again.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Bucket Braking makes Game and Watch harder to kill :[


*shakes fist at A2Z

I never have problems killing G&W.

Rather I have more problems dealing damage to him easily. Yeah, you have D-throw -> U-airs but grabbing him is soooooo hard if he knows spacing.

Actually killing him? Just Up-smash out of shield at like 110%. Call a Smash, charge F-smash, and release.

 

[Judge Judy]

Maybe Snake or Dedede next Judy?

Maybe, but I still will let this discussion go on until the end of the week.

 

[:mad:]

I don't think there's much else to discuss. Dedede's actually one of the easier ones to gimp.
And if any of them showed up, I'd instantly get flamed for that comment.

I'll just review the last few posts about Game and Watch and give my own opinion + anything we might have missed.

 

[Ismael]

Dedede's actually one of the easier ones to gimp.
And if any of them showed up, I'd instantly get flamed for that comment.

The truth hurts, they're just going to have to live with it. XD

 

[Matador]

D3's aerials are ridiculously good anti-gimp tools. if your timing is off, he could D3cide...without the whole HIM dying part....he could just spit you out under the stage and keep trucking. I wouldn't say he's one of the easiest....but he definitely needs to watch himself. D3's survivability is one of his greatest advantages. If we're gimping him at 60 and 70%, that adv is gone.

 

[Ismael]

You can also keep fireballing him to force his upb. But yeah, D3's heavy, strong, and has multiple jumps/good recovery, which makes him an extremely good tank.

I've never known D3s to do that before, but now I'll keep an eye out for it.

 

[Judge Judy]

I'll have a summary up soon for G&W. Anyway, so we're discussing DDD this week?