Mario's Gimping Discussion! This Week: Zero Suit Samus

[:mad:]

It looks fine the way it is. All it really needs is a little more. Something along the lines of;
Use Fludd to diminish his jumps, so he'll be forced to use another means of recovery. Capestalling works well in this situation because it'll make Meta Knight hesitant to go for the edge, so use it often.

 

[BoTastic!]

you should update the first page.

 

[Judge Judy]

you should update the first page.

What do you mean? The OP is updated.

 

[:mad:]

I can't say I don't agree with that. Any final thoughts before we move on?

 

[Ray/Boshi]

I like how the Jigg boards are running with things. A thread for each character specifically. Just an overall neater way of having it done imo. Rather then numerous pages, skimming through what everyone's posting, which is at times different things at once. But that's just me.

Far as how to go about listing the gimping of an opponet recovery. Just dissect the multiple methods of recovery and recovering he has, then the moves you can Cape/Fludd/ect, as well the ideal scenario's for you to be in a good position to get the job done in the first place.


~Alot of the time it's always hit or miss far as gimping with Mario, as you never know. Noones perfect at doing the right thing at the right time. (I watch replays of myself at times and I see numerous times i could've and should've done this or that.) Understanding ideal moves to use for certain situations & planning/thinking ahead. Is a very good way to be.

Nice thread.

 

[Judge Judy]

Boshi, now you main Jigglypuff? Seriously, at this rate you should just go Azen and either main random, Azen, or yourself. Anyway, nice stuff, so should we do Jigglypuff next?

 

[:mad:]

I was hoping for Dedede, to be honest. Jiggs is pretty difficult, DDD you can manage.
But it's your call.

 

[Judge Judy]

I was hoping for Dedede, to be honest. Jiggs is pretty difficult, DDD you can manage.
But it's your call.

Doesn't matter to me, just tell me who you want to do. (message is for everyone)

 

[:mad:]

+1 vote for King Dedede.

We could always do Jigglypuff third.

 

[Judge Judy]

Alright, but I'm going to wait to at least the end of week to change the weekly character discussion, just in case there's any last second input MK mains want to add.

 

[:mad:]

Alright, that sounds good, actually. Every Monday afternoon, you'll swap characters?
We need to get a Meta Knight in here.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Boshi, now you main Jigglypuff? Seriously, at this rate you should just go Azen and either main random, Azen, or yourself. Anyway, nice stuff, so should we do Jigglypuff next?

Jiggs is pretty nice suprisingly. He seems like he'd be ideal to use in teams.

I'm probably a average Azen Am fairly decent with every character.

I'm content with doing whoever, doesnt really matter. D3's pretty simple and straightforward though. Fireballs, Nair, Uair, Cape, Fludd, whatever whatever. Just get him to use his UpB at all cost. He'll either use it completly and land it onstage if there's enough distance between you an him, or he'll cancel it hoping to grab the edge or maybe even DI wherever. Either way, if you can't manage to gimp him, he'll suffer decent damage.

His grab is the only detrimental factor, otherwise Mario would do him overall.

 

[Matador]

I've been testing a few things and found that Dash attack, Usmash, and Utilt have insane priority. I wasn't sure where to put this, but since the topic of discussion is MK, someone who outclasses us because of the whole priority issue, I figured it'd be acceptable.

I've found that, unless the attack vastly outranges it (TL's Dair, or Link's Dair), then Mario's Usmash will hit right through it. I also haven't found a single smash or anything that beats Mario's Usmash. I've tried Marth and G&W's Fsmashes, DK's Dsmash, a bunch of Pit's moves, and other random smashes. Utilt and Dash attack also clashed with some of these high priority attacks.

My point, the general idea for fighting MK is to camp him and keep smashes fresh for the low % kill to take advantage of his light weight. If you play too aggressively, he'll always win since he runs right through everything you do. However, if you use Mario's 9-frame Usmash a little more aggressively than normal, you can rack up damage a little easier than your normally would. Of course, your most reliable KO move in this matchup would be stale, but now MK's pressure isn't a *****.

 

[hippiedude92]

Mk is a *****. Once he has a dthrow on you, it's all over. :[ totally agreed with Matador tho

 

[:mad:]

Mk is a *****. Once he has a dthrow on you, it's all over. :[ totally agreed with Matador tho

Why, dthrow to shuttle loop?
That move has ridiculous knockback. If they didn't give you the option to attack, it wouldn't be so bad.

Gimping a good Meta Knight is something to be proud of.

 

[Judge Judy]

Alright, so is everyone set on Jigglypuff for this week?

 

[:mad:]

Alright, so is everyone set on Jigglypuff for this week?

I am.
In my opinion, Jiggs is tougher to gimp than MK.

 

[Judge Judy]

I am.
In my opinion, Jiggs is tougher to gimp than MK.

I agree you there; Jigglypuff is a lot safer to fight offstage than MK, but I find that gimping her is near impossible if she's conservative with her jumps.

 

[Kanzaki]

I don't fight too many Jiggs, so I don't have much input, but if they miss a rest, cape cape cape to side smash :D

 

[:mad:]

It's mainly how Jiggs has 10+ jumps at once. All of her regulars plus pound, which, I think only nair outprioritizes, if any aerial can beat it.

This is best never attempted, unless you can follow up with a spike. Or gimp after the fair.

 

[Matt07]

Jigglypuff is impossible to gimp, seriously xD.

 

[Judge Judy]

I've updated the OP.

 

[vato_break]

i have a vid of me gimping a jiggz i wanna upload it so bad >.< someone upload it for me ??

 

[Veril]

There are ways to gimp Jigglypuff is she makes a major mistake. Otherwise its impossible. Seriously.

1. Cape a charged aerial rollout. lol
2. Try for the spike... not a great idea.

 

[Famous]

O_o Your avatar is scary...I wouldn't play against a jiggs with those color eyes...

 

[Dory]

Jiggs is near impossible to gimp. You have to be like amazing to gimp a real amazing jiggs. Bair is your best chance mixed it with capes but pound (im pretty sure) can go through both. Jiggs side b is amazing and with her like 80r79823704 jumps its gonna be hard. Like Veril said, going for a spike is not a good idea as jiggs can simply avoid it and wall of pain you.

Matt ***** my jiggs with marth on wifi (thought i should mention this random fact lol)

 

[Judge Judy]

Jiggs is near impossible to gimp. You have to be like amazing to gimp a real amazing jiggs. Bair is your best chance mixed it with capes but pound (im pretty sure) can go through both. Jiggs side b is amazing and with her like 80r79823704 jumps its gonna be hard. Like Veril said, going for a spike is not a good idea as jiggs can simply avoid it and wall of pain you.

Matt ***** my jiggs with marth on wifi (thought i should mention this random fact lol)

The cape > Pound, but yah, Jigglypuff is near impossible to gimp; you can try to pressure Jigglypuff offstage and make things very unpleasant for her, but there's really no way consistently gimp her other than flat-out KOing her.

 

[Dory]

Are you sure cape>pound?

I honestly dont know.

Theres like 1 jiggs in socal lol

 

[Matador]

Cape > All of her attacks in the air. Her vertical recovery is pretty good, but very slow and leaves her vulnerable if she needs to recover high, so meteor is a viable option. Fair while recovering works very well vs Jiggz because she MUST come offstage to gimp you, which she probably will since her KO power is meh.
Fair Beats her Bair and Nair, but not Fair. If you land this, pressure her offstage, count her jumps, and edgeguard intelligently.

That said, she is pretty hard to gimp. Just remember that once her jumps are limited/gone, her choices become few and predictable. Just take advantage of everything you possibly can, and think of what she can possibly do next at every step, because Mario has options for every possible action offstage.

Edit: Yep, Cape > Pound. I just finished playing a Jiggz on wifi. I know, wifi sucks and all that, but still. Cape outranges pound, and is way disjointed.

 

[Judge Judy]

Nice, good stuff Matador.

 

[Dory]

Yea i wasnt sure if cape>pound. I just <3 jiggs pound :]

but yea what Matador said. lol

 

[Matador]

Yea i wasnt sure if cape>pound. I just <3 jiggs pound :]

but yea what Matador said. lol

I think it beats our Bair and Nair...which is saying something

Cape is **** tho.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Gimping Jigglypuff...usually what's more likely to happen is she gets KOed offstage by a well-placed B-air, N-air, or U-air. She's so light that if she really is being sent offstage, she's not going to like it at all if she takes one more hit.

Cape still has uses in messing her up tho I agree.

 

[:mad:]

Yeah, and regardless of whether cape gimps, it still provides that damage.
Risky move, but cape + fair against Jiggly? (Offstage and in the air of course.)

 

[Matador]

Gimping Jigglypuff...usually what's more likely to happen is she gets KOed offstage by a well-placed B-air, N-air, or U-air. She's so light that if she really is being sent offstage, she's not going to like it at all if she takes one more hit.

Cape still has uses in messing her up tho I agree.

Yeah, the better option if any of your aerials are fresh or she's at high enough % is to just finish her off. Cape sends her backwards, but also a little vertically, giving her chances to recover.

Just remember that Pound ***** the majority of our aerials.

Risky move, but cape + fair against Jiggly? (Offstage and in the air of course.)

Honestly have never tried it. I have done fireball -> Fair though, works pretty nicely because of her range. Cape may work if you start high, since it sends her up a bit as well.

 

[:mad:]

Honestly have never tried it. I have done fireball -> Fair though, works pretty nicely because of her range. Cape may work if you start high, since it sends her up a bit as well.

Well, I haven't either. I was thinking most Jiggly players would be sent back, then jump right back into the fair after a cape. Only problem I see is Mario falling after the cape. Daym gravity.

 

[Matador]

Have we even discussed Jiggs in the matchup thread yet? I'm thinking it's one of those randomly bad matches for Mario like TL.

Not bad but sort of like how ROB is for us.

 

[Kanzaki]

I've only played 1 Jigglypuff player, and that was in Grand Finals for a Low Tier Tourney on Wifi... I just spammed fireballs into a hyphen smashed, it worked xD

 

[Matador]

I've only played 1 Jigglypuff player, and that was in Grand Finals for a Low Tier Tourney on Wifi... I just spammed fireballs into a hyphen smashed, it worked xD

Usmash beats all of her aerials, even pound IIRC. Plus...it kills her at like 100.

 

[vato_break]

someone upload the replay for me plz T_T