Mario Stage Thread Discussing: Halberd

[Matt07]

The purpose of this thread is to help us know what stages or good/bad for Mario. And which characters to take/avoid on those stages. And hopefully get some more metagame discussion going .

*Special thanks to Sasook for the layout!*

The Stages

Starter:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Starter/Counter:
Castle Siege
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1

Counter:
Brinstar
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise

Counter/Banned:
Distant Planet
Green Greens
Luigi's Mansion
Port Town Aero Dive
Yoshi's Island (Pipes)
Norfair

Counterpicks (these will change as more stages are discussed)

Discussion

Format:
-Basic Advantages
-Basic Disadvantages
-Mario's Aggressive Game
-Mario's Defensive Game
-Who to take to this stage
-Who NOT to take to this stage
-Who is neutral on this stage

For the characters:
++ means the CP is a very good idea
+ means the matchup gets slightly easier
+/- means the matchup remains neutral.
- means the matchup gets worse
-- means it's ban-worthy

We'll start with neutrals first, then move through counterpicks.

 

[Matt07]

Starters​

​

Battlefield​

Basic Advantages:
Platforms can help Mario's airgame by allowing him to chase people high up.
Platforms allow Mario to cape glide, allowing for some mindgames.
Stage isn't too big, so its easy to get people offstage and possibly gimp them if they have a crappy recovery.
Can walljump off the ledges.
SH D-air to pressure low platforms, fullhop D-air to pressure the high platform.
Little used technique: Platform drop out of shield.
Keep in mind, you have a LOT more shenanigans with Up-B on this stage, making it a more valuable anti-approach option
Battlefield is the best stage that gives Mario, who has limited ledge options, much more ledge options.
If people are shielding when you are under them and if they are near the end of the platform when you uptilt they will fall off, this can lead to a jab lock or a free hit.
Up-tilt has a VERY small hitbox that penetrates through the top of the platform.

Basic Disadvantages:
Small stage makes it so Mario can't camp as effectively, people might have an easier time gimping him compared to other stages since his recovery isn't that great either.
People that have a better air game than Mario can use the platforms better than he can.

Mario's Defensive Game:
While still playing defensive, the platforms can still allow you to apply tons of pressure with a small chance of being punished, and you'll likely get a few hits on them from that advantaged position.
Small stage makes it so Mario can't camp as effectively

Final Destination

Basic Advantages:
A lot more room to play defensively.
Up B can stage spike.
Can ledgedrop>wall jump, to mix up ledge options.
Mario can limit your opponents ledge options with fireball pressure even more since almost everyones ledge options are more limited here

Basic Disadvantages:
UpB is a lot easier to punish on this stage, due to lack of platforms.
This stage does give Mario less ledge options too though so try to avoid staying on the ledge.

General Notes:
This is the stage where you want to camp especially against characters who have better ground games. This stage will be more of a ground type of play for mario, Mario's ground game is very underrated and it should be used more on this stage. Pretty high blast zones so expect to kill much later as compared to other stages, go for more gimps and edge gaurds.​

Smashville

Advtanges:
-We can camp on the floating platform and spam Fireballs.
-This stage is more smaller then FD so it seems easier to move away and or fight back with characters that camp alot.

General Notes:
Ledgehop->Wavebounce onto platform baits really well. Free b-air if they chase and you're put in a neutral position.

Basic Advantages
-You can u-tilt/u-smash when opponents are on the middle platform.
-UpB has a HUGE reach disjoint on this stage, making it harder to be edgeguarded.
-You can live a tad longer vertically due to blastzones.
-Walljump, can lead to recovery mix-up's, our ledge options.

Basic Disadvantages
-The middle platform really screwed up Mario's Fireball game.
-Not a lot of room to be really aggresive, and not enough room to Fireball camp.
-The ceiling is a bit too high, making it harder to K.O with u-smashes.
-The smaller horizontal blastzones give Mario a harder time to K.O.
-You can still be punished by using upB even with the middle platform since it's easier for more attacks to hit you.​

Starters/Counterpicks​

​

Castle Siege Transformation 1​

Advantages:
+Little room for characters to camp.
+There is the slope at the middle preventing chaingrabs.
+Platforms allow for some good platform abuse.
+Can control the first transformation very effectively due to his D-air being the perfect move for platform pressuring there.
+The incline in the middle has uses when throwing fireballs or autocanceling some of your aerials.
+Wall Jump recoveries can help your recovery.​

Disadvantages
-Hard to play keep away game, due to the small size of the stage.

Neutral
+/- Smaller stage allowing you to be KO'd easier, and for you to KO easier.

General Notes:
-This transformation requires a strong boxing game, which Mario is decent at.
-Hinders campers with 'predictable projectiles' (Luigi, Falco, Fox, Wolf, etc.)​

Castle Siege Transformation 2​

Advantages:
+A lot of platforms allowing for many mixups.
+Very easy to abuse up-B here as there's so many platforms making it harder to punish.

Disadvantages
-Lots of room for characters to camp.
-Chaingrabs can lead to early KO's.
-Cannot gimp here, rendering FLUDD, and Capes abilities.
-Large amount of room for camping, making it difficult to approach.

Neutral
+/-Larger blastzones making it harder for you to be KO'd, and harder for you to KO.
+/-Harder to be poked through platforms, and harder for you to be able to poke through platforms.
+/-Statues can prevent you from taking damage, or they can prevent you from giving out damage.
+/-A lot of room for you to run around, and force your opponent to go aggresive, however a lot of room for them to force you to aggresive (especially if they have a projectile(s).)

General Notes:
-Can use statues to unstale moves.​

Castle Siege Transformation 3​

Advantages:
+No platforms allowing your Fireballs to be more useful, and force defensive play.
+Mario's best area.
+Tilting of the stage hinders camping while enhancing Mario's Fireball's.
+Mario can ulitize his moveset here with relative ease.​

Disadvantages:
-No platforms allowing your up-B to be punished easier.
-When your on the lower end of the tilt, you are at a severe disadvantage, however it doesn't last too long.​

Neutral:
+/-Larger blastzone for the ceiling allow you to live longer, however making it harder to KO vertically.
+/-The stage tilts allowing you to miss the ledge when recovering, or your opponent.​

 

[JuxtaposeX]

I'm surprised that we didn't already have one of these threads.
I think Mario does pretty well on all stages.
Like mentioned many times before by many different people; I CPing with Mario = picking a stage where the other character is bad at.

Battlefield's pretty good in my opinion.

Advantage:
Platforms can help Mario's airgame by allowing him to chase people high up.
Platforms allow Mario to cape glide, allowing for some mindgames.
Stage isn't too big, so its easy to get people offstage and possibly gimp them if they have a crappy recovery.
Up-smash and u-tilt can hit people from under the platforms.
Can walljump off the ledges.

Disadvantages:
Small stage makes it so Mario can't camp as effectively, people might have an easier time gimping him compared to other stages since his recovery isn't that great either.
People that have a better air game than Mario can use the platforms better than he can.



I don't really know my MUs that well, but its pretty obvious to not take MK or Snake to this stage. MK ***** with those platforms, and Snake controls the stage too hard. I guess it could be an alright stage against diddy since it doesn't allow him much room to camp and his recovery is pretty garbage.

Just stating the obvious here, also why is Toon Link "Gay"?

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

This is Mario's best neutral. This is neutral > all neutrals w/ Mario.

Who to bring

R.O.B, Bowser, Captain Falcon, Ike (watch out for his up smash and up aerial), Ganondorf, Fox, possibly Ness, Pit, Samus.

Who is neutral w/ this stage?

Snake, Peach, Luigi, DK, possibly Wario, possibly Ness, possibly Sheik, Jigglypuff, Sonic, King Dedede, Kirby, Pikachu, Zero Suit Samus, Diddy, possibly Snake, Falco, Wolf, Zelda, Lucas, Pkmn Trainer, Toon Link,

Who NOT to take on this stage?

Meta Knight, Marth, G&W, possibly Olimar,


*I don't about Yoshi, I discuss about this a lil later, my throat is killing me, I f**kin hate sore throats. <.<

 

[Calebyte]

I definitely think this is Mario's best neutral. Platforms allow him to really take advantage of his aerials, as well as providing more possibilities for Cape Gliding. As mentioned above though, avoid taking MK, Marth, and GaW here, since they can exploit platforms better than Mario. I'd also avoid taking Wario here, since he can take use the platforms to air camp all day.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Battlefield is awesome.

SH D-air to pressure low platforms, fullhop D-air to pressure the high platform.

Do that more guys.

Personally I don't mind bringing anyone to BF. However if there are any characters that you MUST bring to this stage, bring the ICs and DDD here since you can platform camp them very effectively.

Little used technique: Platform drop out of shield. It's hard as hell to do smoothly, but it's very useful. And Mario has good reasons to be using it.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Actually, I don't find this stage all that bad against MK. It's definitely not as bad as like Smashville or Frigate for MK, and they usually ban where I'd LIKE to go, (FD).

 

[Matt07]

Just stating the obvious here, also why is Toon Link "Gay"?

Woops I took the layout from Sasook and he must've had him listed as that xD. Thanks for noticing, I fixed it.

Thanks for the replies thus far guys, keep it up .

@Lil Gerald - Bowser I'm not sure to take on this stage, lol. I heard Bowser is really good on this stage, it's best to avoid it.

++: Ike, Ganondorf, Fox, Samus.
+: R.O.B, Captain Falcon, King Dedede
+/-: Peach, Luigi, DK, possibly Wario, possibly Ness, possibly Sheik, Jigglypuff, Sonic, King Dedede, Kirby, Pikachu, Zero Suit Samus, Diddy, possibly Snake, Falco, Wolf, Zelda, Lucas, Pkmn Trainer, Toon Link, Pit
-: Bowser, Metaknight
--: Marth, Game and Watch, Snake

 

[Kanzaki]

Battlefield is my favorate stage. And Fox is good on Battlefield btw.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Going to BF doesn't make you lose to anyone you don't already lose to. In fact the advantages Mario has on this stage may in fact what you need to survive your worst matchups as far as I'm concerned, since other characters have more exploits on counterpick stages than Mario. Like honestly, Metaknight in my opinion is scarier to face on all the counterpick stages as opposed to BF.

Of course the REAL reason you want this stage is to counterpick against DDD and the Ice Climbers.

Bowser's best stage is in fact BF, but you still beat him on that stage anyway, so it really doesn't matter (keep in mind, you have a LOT more shenanigans with Up-B on this stage, making it a more valuable anti-approach option). Although he pretty much sits around and gets owned on FD lol.

 

[hippiedude92]

i'm naturally rapeeeee at this stage.

platforms scream out platform camping, cape dashing, breversal fireballs

wall jumping mindgames

personally best neutral imo. everything works well for mario, just other characters can possibly do better than mario, like MK's dair camping on platform

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Of course the REAL reason you want this stage is to counterpick against DDD and the Ice Climbers.

Plus Mario can have stage control on BF like doing rising down aerial and other aerials above and below the platforms so they can't kill us @ all. Yes, a friend of mines was ICs saying that I have total control of the stage that it was hard for him to CG, close matches.

 

[Flameleon]

-I like Battlefield x9 but yeah, BF is the best stage for Mario, he can use almost all of his potential over there...-

 

[iMichael]

This is most likely going to be your best stage with Mario.

 

[Veggi]

Battlefield=awesome

 

[Matador]

Quite obviously our best neutral because the platforms offer us super duper combo ability as well as safe platform pressure.

Don't bring MK here if you can help it.

Sorry about not using for format Matt. I don't know enough about stage selection and whatnot to say anything and know for certain. I'll be mostly observing this thread, lol

 

[A2ZOMG]

If it's BF and the choice of some other dumb counterpick stage, I would take MK to BF.

He's gaaaaay on counterpick stages.

 

[Matador]

If it's BF and the choice of some other dumb counterpick stage, I would take MK to BF.

He's gaaaaay on counterpick stages.

Definitely, lmao. If you have your choice of neutrals, I'd definitely go FD.

 

[SKidd]

I'd take MK to Halberd. After Apex I've always been taking MK to Halberd... Surprisingly it's working for me =s

:D

 

[Matt07]

@Matador it's fine, haha. I'm not super picky on format anyways, it's just a basic guideline to follow for those who need one (such as myself )

 

[A2ZOMG]

There's a bunch of reasons why I wouldn't take MK to Halberd involving him doing gay stuff while not actually giving you many advantages, but that will have to wait until future discussion.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

MK can do wall of pain on Mario in on Halberd, that's a stock off of Mario..

 

[SKidd]

works for me :/

 

[thegreatkazoo]

Hi, though I'm new and all, I would like to give my two cents on Battle Field as it relates to Diddy Kong (as I have played many Diddy Kongs on BF.)

I'm gonna have to say move that up from a 50/50 to a plus. You can fireball camp on Diddy all day long, plus grabbing Bananas in the air is a snap (I personally grab bananas on the platform with uair.) Plus, more opportunities to gimp the Rocket Pack.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I'm not filling out a format because I'm lazy.

Battlefield is SOOOOOOO GOOOOOOD for Mario, it's incredible, it's almost as if it was built for him. In fact, one of the only ways I could see it as being better would be if we could Usmash the bottom platforms, that would be sexy as hell. Alright, the reason BF is so good is because of all the platforms, and the small area. While still playing defensive, the platforms can still allow you to apply tons of pressure with a small chance of being punished, and you'll likely get a few hits on them from that advantaged position. Fireballs still work just as well here, and stuff. However, one of my favorite things to do on this stage while hanging on the ledge is to fall down, walljump off of the edge, and b reversaled fireball back to the stage (or just reverse fireball it doesn't really matter). It's a very very very very very good recovery option, and you can always mix up the fireball with Bair or something similar. Not to mention that Up-B OoS is 10x less punishable because you can extend it so it reaches the top platform, so that makes one of our fastest punishers harder to punish (unfortunately the move still has a ton of landing lag. D: ) Let's not forget that you can use the height of the platforms to help your offstage game. (Whether it be jumping offstage from there or using ACE to get out there and gimp/kill them with Uair or Nair.)

There's no other quirks I really feel like posting about at the moment, I'll probably get to that stuff later.

 

[vato_break]

Battlefield is the best stage that gives mario, who has limited ledge options, much more ledge options. ledgedroping, ledge hopping are especially more useful. for example you can ledgedrop wall jump upB and land on the platform or ledge hop air dodge and land on the top platform safely. ALot of characters cannot punish this.

 

[Veggi]

However, one of my favorite things to do on this stage while hanging on the ledge is to fall down, walljump off of the edge, and b reversaled fireball back to the stage (or just reverse fireball it doesn't really matter). It's a very very very very very good recovery option, and you can always mix up the fireball with Bair or something similar. Not to mention that Up-B OoS is 10x less punishable because you can extend it so it reaches the top platform, so that makes one of our fastest punishers harder to punish (unfortunately the move still has a ton of landing lag. D: )

YES! There's someone else that does this stuff. Using uair after the fireball is pretty good if they're close to the edge...but if they shield the fireball and the uair it's a pretty easy shield grab. : /

 

[SKidd]

Battlefield counterpick list - Who to take to bf!
Link
Lucario
Diddy
D3?

Characters who rely/like to camp are a must to bring on this stage. Platform camping them can leave tons of opportunities, while you can do that shield - down jump thing, as well. Also, characters who are fat and heavy. helpz add moar to this lol i can't think right now

 

[Veggi]

Definitely not DK for Battlefield. A bunch of his moves go through the platforms, which gives him good platform pressure and the ability to get kills no matter what you choose to do when you get knocked down on a platform. He can also get extended super armor with the platforms, the edge design allows him to drop off the edge and up b all the way on stage laglessly as long as DK is holding down.

 

[SKidd]

k.

lawl.,

 

[Matt07]

Basic Advantages:
- Platforms can help Mario's airgame by allowing him to chase people high up.
Platforms allow Mario to cape glide, allowing for some mindgames.
- Stage isn't too big, so its easy to get people offstage and possibly gimp them if they have a crappy recovery.
- Up-smash and u-tilt can hit people from under the platforms.
- Can walljump off the ledges.
- SH D-air to pressure low platforms, fullhop D-air to pressure the high platform.
- Little used technique: Platform drop out of shield.
- Keep in mind, you have a LOT more shenanigans with Up-B on this stage, making it a more valuable anti-approach option
- Battlefield is the best stage that gives Mario, who has limited ledge options, much more ledge options.

Basic Disadvantages:
- Small stage makes it so Mario can't camp as effectively, people might have an easier time gimping him compared to other stages since his recovery isn't that great either.
- People that have a better air game than Mario can use the platforms better than he can.

Mario's Defensive Game:
- While still playing defensive, the platforms can still allow you to apply tons of pressure with a small chance of being punished, and you'll likely get a few hits on them from that advantaged position.
- Small stage makes it so Mario can't camp as effectively

Decent summary guys? If you have anything to add let me know, we're moving onto another neutral.

 

[Matt07]

Basic Advantages:
-A lot more room to play defensively.
-Up B can stage spike.
-Can ledgedrop>wall jump, to mix up ledge options.

Basic Disadvantages
-UpB is a lot easier to punish on this stage, due to lack of platforms.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

I'm not sure if Mario's upsmash can hit from under a platform. I'll go verify right now.


EDIT: Alright, got the results.

Up-smash CANNOT hit ANYONE from below the platform. I tried charging it fully, hoping that it might maybe increase its range for some reason and it still didn't work.

Up-tilt has a VERY small hitbox that penetrates through the top of the platform. I tried it on samus and could only hit the ball of her ankle when she places her foot FLAT down against the platform. That's only when I was directly under her. Same thing for Snake.

I tried it on MK and it seemed to work on him most of the time, but you still have to be right under him and he has to be standing on the platform.

You're much better off short-hopping an up-air from under there. Up-tilt from under the platform makes d-tilt look like a godlike move.

 

[vato_break]

If people are shielding when you are under them and if they are near the end of the platform when you uptilt they will fall off, this can lead to a jab lock or a free hit.

Also for Final D: this is the stage where you want to camp especially against characters who havebetter ground games. This stage will be more of a ground type of play for mario, marios ground game is very underrated and it should be used more on this stage. Mario can limit your opponents ledge options with fireball pressure even more since almost everyones ledge options are more limited here. This stage does give mario less ledge options too though so try to avoid staying on the ledge. Pretty high blast zones so expect to kill much later as compared to other stages, go for more gimps and edge gaurds.

 

[Calebyte]

Who would you take to FD? I'd take MK, Marth, maybe Wario. MK and Marth can really abuse platforms as a spacing tool, Marth having especially great platform-poking game. Wario can't air camp as well on FD due to lack of platforms. Who else would you CP here?

 

[Juushichi]

To FD? I'd take Lucario there, too, actually.

 

[condemned_soul]

Id take Yoshi, Wolf, Ness, Lucas, Ike, and Falcon there as well.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Take ppl who dont have a projectile..

 

[hippiedude92]

id come here mostly for the big room for mario's speed.

most of the time id change my style to full hopping

oh and **** roll-carios on fd

 

[SKidd]

Hippie you moved? And I never choose FD... When I gotta go though, I camp.