Mario Questions and Answers; Ask here first!

[Ray/Boshi]

Long as you stay unpredictable with it.

 

[steep]

So who all is going to SiiS5 and/or GP Affairs 5? I want to learn from some other Mario mains who are more solid than me. I learn a lot from watching better Mario's than me play against characters that I myself have trouble with. Also, are there any Mario's that any of you know of who post offline tourney videos of their Mario on youtube often? I have looked up so many hours of brawl videos and I feel like I am having a hard time finding new material.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Probably not going to either because the smash scene around here is dead.

Luckily the BlazBlue/MvC3 scene here is not!

 

[A2ZOMG]

What Steep and Famous are referring to serves the same purpose as empty SHs, but just fastfalling an airdodge instead of fastfalling without airdodging.

You could still empty SH -> fastfall airdodge -> crossover grab. The main difference is buffering.

No, airdodging serves a completely different purpose. Airdodging is for baiting overly aggressive opponents. Empty jumping WITHOUT the airdodge lets you pressure your opponent if they are on the defense. Once you airdodge, if your opponent has good reactions, they know that you're not going to attack them directly.

As I said, Flameleon is the only Mario user I've seen videos of where he actually does empty jumps to pressure defenses. The concept at hand is threat vs execution and limiting your opponents options. When you commit to the airdodge, the threat of spacer is gone and your opponent doesn't have to risk you reacting to or reading their escape options. If you commit to nothing and show your opponent that you still have options to punish them for squirming, you are in a much more powerful position for breaking defenses. Your options in this position are to either arbitrarily attack, or to not attack and then grab/chase whatever they do to escape.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Are there any Marios going to Genesis?

 

[Inferno3044]

I have no idea what I'm going to next. I just went to KTAR and got 33rd out of 116. I lost to Ikon, beat Aposl and Roller, then lost to D. Disciple. The tourney was stacked. Whoever is in charge of the results thread, feel free to put it there.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I'd be estatic if I got 33rd at Genesis, it'll be the first time I've ever been to a National and my third ever out of state. (My first I went to Vegas and took 9th. My second will be in New Mexico mid June.)

 

[Matador]

No, airdodging serves a completely different purpose. Airdodging is for baiting overly aggressive opponents. Empty jumping WITHOUT the airdodge lets you pressure your opponent if they are on the defense. Once you airdodge, if your opponent has good reactions, they know that you're not going to attack them directly.

As I said, Flameleon is the only Mario user I've seen videos of where he actually does empty jumps to pressure defenses. The concept at hand is threat vs execution and limiting your opponents options. When you commit to the airdodge, the threat of spacer is gone and your opponent doesn't have to risk you reacting to or reading their escape options. If you commit to nothing and show your opponent that you still have options to punish them for squirming, you are in a much more powerful position for breaking defenses. Your options in this position are to either arbitrarily attack, or to not attack and then grab/chase whatever they do to escape.

Im not seeing why one wouldn't be able to SH -> fastfall airdodge and still capitalize on a defensive opponent's response (spotdodge, jump away, run away, roll away, attack, grab OOS).

Yeah, you're commiting a tad earlier, but it also makes you grounded faster as well, leaving you free to run and perform mix-ups on their defense, or simply empty jump again.

I personally don't SH airdodge, btw...but I do see the merits of it over normal empty SHs. I don't see HUGE differences that rank outside of mere preference.

@Z'zgashi: I WANT to go to Genesis, but realistically, I wont have the opportunity. Money and time issues, you see.

@Inferno: I saw the results thread...you outplaced Kirin? Good stuff, dude...very impressive.

 

[A2ZOMG]

This is a really advanced example of an empty jump bait, but watch this video of Ocean's ROB. The REASON this works is because his opponent is aware that he does B reversal Gyro canceling to space B-airs, and shields in anticipation of the threat of B-air. You don't airdodge in this bait because it tells your opponent that you aren't attacking them, and gives them more time to react with a grab as you land.

 

[Coolwhip]

@Omari: Ok, so maybe it isn't a m-game trick. But it's a pretty good trick that most ppl won't see
coming @ all. It's a nice move i've pick up during training mode. I feel like i've improve a little more
and learning from past mistakes since i'm dead from wi-failz. XD

 

[Matador]

This is a really advanced example of an empty jump bait, but watch this video of Ocean's ROB. The REASON this works is because his opponent is aware that he does B reversal Gyro canceling to space B-airs, and shields in anticipation of the threat of B-air. You don't airdodge in this bait because it tells your opponent that you aren't attacking them, and gives them more time to react with a grab as you land.

That actually makes sense to me. 2Fast kinda does the same thing with B reversed fireballs whenever we friendly.

SH -> airdodge -> jab is awesome though.

 

[Z'zgashi]

So guys, in a lot of videos, it seems like you guys cape behind you a lot while recovering, why it this? I've always just caped forward, does it help caping behind you?

 

[Matador]

So guys, in a lot of videos, it seems like you guys cape behind you a lot while recovering, why it this? I've always just caped forward, does it help caping behind you?

Bair >>>>>>> Fair when recovering most of the time.

The caping backwards is merely for turning Mario around. It doesn't increase distance or anything.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Oh, I see, makes sense. Thanks

 

[Matador]

No problemo!

Happy to help.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Flameleon does this UTTERLY INSANE thing where he does a ledgehop turnaround fireball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQGctviwRkw&feature=player_detailpage#t=153s

Seriously, how the **** does he do this? I want to steal it.

 

[Famous]

It's not hard to do..Basically a slight B-stick

He used his 2nd jump while doing his though, which is dangerous if you manage to get poked...

S/N Lil G has mad potential..

 

[A2ZOMG]

Main thing is this takes less time to do than Cape -> ledgehop. It's something I haven't seen before, and I intend to implement it.

 

[Z'zgashi]

@A2: 8888 posts, omg.

 

[Inferno3044]

Flameleon meatride

All I read XD

 

[Z'zgashi]

Flameleon does this UTTERLY INSANE thing where he does a ledgehop turnaround fireball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQGctviwRkw&feature=player_detailpage#t=153s

Seriously, how the **** does he do this? I want to steal it.

Imagine this but with FLUDD instead of Fireball. Epic edgeguard.

 

[Matador]

Imagine this but with FLUDD instead of Fireball. Epic edgeguard.

That'd be awesome.

FLUDD has been really letting me down lately.

 

[Kanzaki]

TKD is from Mexico. He frequents Cali tournaments.

Wifi is wifi.

Just saying >.>

 

[Luigisama]

I have a question for inferno. At KTAR5 how did you beat Roller's ics?

 

[steep]

^^^ Yeah I want to see your matches from KTAR 5 Inferno!!!

 

[Inferno3044]

I have a question for inferno. At KTAR5 how did you beat Roller's ics?

Game 1 - Yoshi's Island. I got 3 stocked XD (made all my IC mistakes). Yoshi's one platform doesn't help at all in this MU.

Game 2 - Battlefield. Jumped around the platforms and won by timeout. First timeout ever btw

Game 3 - Smashville. Mostly camped the platform unless he was on it. With under a minute left I kill Nana. Roller tried to save her and he ended up with an SD.

Basically, in the 2 games I won, I platform camped him and punished his mistakes. Go to a stage with multiple platforms. It makes it much easier. Best stages to fight ICs are BF, Lylat, Brinstar (like you'll ever fight him there) and RC (beware of pocket MK). PS1 is also a good choice because the stage transformations cause him to drop grabs but it's not the best Mario stage. PS2 is a maybe It sounds like a good idea on paper but I would need to try it out before I can confirm.

 

[Kanzaki]

Inferno timing out an IC.. I've never been so proud of you <3

 

[Inferno3044]

Inferno timing out an IC.. I've never been so proud of you <3

Thanks Kanzaki <3

 

[Coolwhip]

I've never heard of an mario main time'n out some one before. xD

Edit: Have anyone wifi san before?

 

[Kanzaki]

Timing people out is what I'm good at :D

 

[Luigisama]

Game 1 - Yoshi's Island. I got 3 stocked XD (made all my IC mistakes). Yoshi's one platform doesn't help at all in this MU.

Game 2 - Battlefield. Jumped around the platforms and won by timeout. First timeout ever btw

Game 3 - Smashville. Mostly camped the platform unless he was on it. With under a minute left I kill Nana. Roller tried to save her and he ended up with an SD.

Basically, in the 2 games I won, I platform camped him and punished his mistakes. Go to a stage with multiple platforms. It makes it much easier. Best stages to fight ICs are BF, Lylat, Brinstar (like you'll ever fight him there) and RC (beware of pocket MK). PS1 is also a good choice because the stage transformations cause him to drop grabs but it's not the best Mario stage. PS2 is a maybe It sounds like a good idea on paper but I would need to try it out before I can confirm.

Oh wow this is amazing. These matches should have been saved. They would have served for a perfect demonstration on how mario should fight ics. Next tourney that I got to and you're at I'm going to make sure I watch your matches and tried to get them recorded.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Told you platform camping is amazing Inferno. Very hard to stop if done correctly with good reactions against most of the cast. Just be thankful that it's difficult to platform camp against Mario.

 

[Matador]

I've never heard of an mario main time'n out some one before. xD

Edit: Have anyone wifi san before?

Long time ago, before he got his name out there, yeah. I played him.

 

[Coolwhip]

I seen videos of san. He's really good for an ike player. He's the reason why ike isn't no longer
in Ltier class imo. I'd like to play him someday. Me & him both have the same last name. LOL

<----He's really god-tier, but no know kares.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I still care. I don't think I'll enter Genesis, but I will enter one of MikeHaze's tournaments most likely.

 

[Inferno3044]

Oh wow this is amazing. These matches should have been saved. They would have served for a perfect demonstration on how mario should fight ics. Next tourney that I got to and you're at I'm going to make sure I watch your matches and tried to get them recorded.

You camp him. Simple as that. I can't remember everyone who gave me advice at Apex, but they gave really good advice. Also, I can't say that was the perfect example, but it would've gotten the job done on what Mario should do.

Told you platform camping is amazing Inferno. Very hard to stop if done correctly with good reactions against most of the cast. Just be thankful that it's difficult to platform camp against Mario.

I know it works. Definitely against ICs because they will approach you. It's what I did at Apex, but Swordgard is a better player than me. If Roller decides to name search, he should Uair more. Would've made things harder for me since Mario has no option to hit below him. Also some commitment to moves would've made things harder instead of trying to punish everything.

I still care. I don't think I'll enter Genesis, but I will enter one of MikeHaze's tournaments most likely.

You should enter Genesis. You don't get better crunching numbers all day. You have to practice and put things to use.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I know it works. Definitely against ICs because they will approach you. It's what I did at Apex, but Swordgard is a better player than me. If Roller decides to name search, he should Uair more. Would've made things harder for me since Mario has no option to hit below him. Also some commitment to moves would've made things harder instead of trying to punish everything.

The ICs are actually one of the "harder" characters to viably platform camp. You have to be paying attention to their U-air really carefully to avoid it effectively since it has similar frames to Mario's U-air, which isn't broken, but still pretty fast, and getting hit by it kinda sucks since it does good damage. There's many more characters where it's much easier to platform camp them on a lead and win.

Also, the ICs are hard to deal with if they SideB a lot. It breaks your zoning as effectively as the Tornado. It's easy for Mario to not get grabbed and to force the ICs to stop camping. It's more difficult for him to wall them.

You should enter Genesis. You don't get better crunching numbers all day. You have to practice and put things to use.

I uploaded some recent matches of me. I would appreciate if people watched and commented on them.

As much time as I spend crunching numbers (which I don't, I analyze options and watch videos a lot), I actually spend more time experimenting. And you can see my technical skill in the matches I just posted in the new video thread.

 

[Kanzaki]

I've *almost* beaten Fly Amanita back in the days when he was Brawl active. Camping for the win :D


He's just a smarter player than me =/

 

[Inferno3044]

He actually did SideB a good amount and it messed me up. I would much rather take a SideB over a grab though

 

[A2ZOMG]

One of the best ways to fight the ICs is to grab them.

When you grab them, they cannot grab you back, and you can separate them. Use F-throw for this since it has the shortest duration. What I like doing is F-throw -> D-smash after grabbing the ICs.