Mario Boards: General Discussion

[Solharath]

But that's what this game is. Mix-ups and situational scenarios where you have to decide between your options based on how your opponent previously reacted to them.

With Mario being a mediocre character with mediocre options the majority of the time (compared to other characters), it's important to not always pick your best options for specific situations because our best options aren't ever really that good. It's more important to mix things up.

That's why you see good Marios often ignore a guaranteed follow-up for the chance of a more damaging mix-up option. Given Fair's properties and potential (Our only meteor, can set-up for jab locks, decent range compared to our other aerials, devastating for characters that lack a meteor cancel offstage, forces a favorable RPS rolling situation if unteched onstage, etc.) I can see why someone would like it.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the usefulness of situational combos- I talked about it at length on Sunday with a friend of mine mentioning that the highest level players know the situational tactics by heart and that's what makes them the top players.

However I find the fair to be a very dangerous, very telegraphed attack with low reward, especially if an opponent is grounded at all(then don't use it on a grounded opponent I hear you say, well, depending on who you fight, an aerial opponent can become a grounded one very quickly). Regardless, the endling lag/landing lag isn't something I'd say gives us a favorable position on a missed tech, but I won't argue the fact because I haven't had many situations in which that has come up.

Not that I don't love fair. I turned a 2v1(1 stock v. 3 stocks) scenario into a grand comeback against a Fox/GnW thanks to that Fair on Yoshi's(and a well timed FSmash).

 

[Matador]

You've never had that situation where you FH Fair someone, they miss the tech, then you get to Usmash their roll?

I JUST saw SKidd do this to a Peach last Saturday on stream.

Edit: But yeah, I see what you're saying. I still don't think it's that good of a move. It's definitely not without purpose though.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Fair is actually pretty good if they're standing as long as you space it right. Pretty damn good.

 

[Cezz624]

Hey guys! I finally got my internet working. I tried playing online and it was HORRIBLE! I thought people were just overreacting about the lag. Just something I gotta get used to

Nah, for me online is not THAT bad, I eventually got used to the lag though.

 

[vato_break]

i use fair in some situation but the move is pretty bad. it's ok as a mixup i guess but its not very good for the most part.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

i use fair in some situation but the move is pretty bad. it's ok as a mixup i guess but its not very good for the most part.

Sooooo good.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Yeah, the spike can be hard to deploy alone, but easy with mixups. For me, i mix in the spike with the f-throw

 

[XLR8TION]

Sup marios. just passing by :T

 

[TMario]

Sup marios. just passing by :T

*head nod*

Anyway, current update on my road to ascend to the next Mario level...

Can I just say, I'm -bleep-ing frustrated with Falco?? I mean, I know there's a board there, but this social board... I need to vent. This is more appropriate here.....

GAH!!! FALCO!!!

...the bane of my existence.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

Have you learned how to SDI falco's CG to dair? I mean the MU is still annoying but it helps if you somehow get grabbed at low percents. It isn't hard to do at all either which is a big plus.

 

[TMario]

Yeah yeah. It's more of the reflector/lasers/hellafast Usmash that gets to me... I just can never seem to get inside. Damn Mario and his stubby arms...

 

[Coolwhip]

Falco is still a hard match-up regardless. But with tons of experience, anything can happen.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

just play patiently and use your fireballs...don't rush in without having a plan

 

[TMario]

Maybe I am rushing... I'll keep it in mind. Thanks guys.

And my bad coolwhip, I know you made those matchup threads. Didnt mean to move the convo over here, I was just venting. Felt like social board is more appropriate for that. I dont have anything to contribute yet to the matchup boards.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Guys, my Mario is getting better. I now feel comfortable using him in legit tournament matches, so I will be doing so and hopefully will have vids somewhat soon.

Idk who Id want to use him on yet though, as it seems all the MUs in the top 10 around here im better off going Yoshi... Might use him against X's Sonic since I hate not having OoS against that stupid character lol, but the rest are all using MK, Diddy, Falco, and Snake, which is dumb. Falco might be better for Mario than Yoshi though, although I go Pika for that anyway lol.

Anyway, yeah, Mario, Im going to be using him more... lol.

 

[boss8]

i learned that fireballs/fludd are prob ur best camping options...not even kidding right now...

fludd is GDlike in teams....mainly against mk's who like to spam up-b/nado..

 

[Coolwhip]

We need to start using cape more in close range kombat. (Grounded)

 

[Jimmyfosho]

I disagree, it gets predictable after awhile. Also grounded cape gives more lag than aerial cape (iirc). Which gives them more time to punish you if blocked.

 

[Solharath]

We need to start using cape more in close range kombat. (Grounded)

This is not a good idea.

Trust me.

 

[boss8]

This is not a good idea.

Trust me.

yea.....people will just react...if only cape could turn u around IN shield like in melee...xD

 

[BSP]

I concur with not using grounded cape

And once again, my performance in tournament today showed me that my mario is a lot better in doubles than singes X_x Maybe I'm just better at capitalizing on chaotic situations with him.

 

[Coolwhip]

And this is one of the reasons why mario wouldn't move out of L-tier.
Cause we won't at least try new things that could potentially benefit mario as a character.

 

[BSP]

I'll try SH cape, but grounded just seems a bit limited. Really low range, pretty unsafe on block, and less range than an air cape.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

And this is one of the reasons why mario wouldn't move out of L-tier.
Cause we won't at least try new things that could potentially benefit mario as a character.

why try something new if we know it's going to be bad?


grounded cape is predictable, has a ton of delay, and is the worst thing you can do on shield...you might get someone with it once or twice but after that they'll figure out "hey...this thing he is doing is bad...let's punish him for it"

I'm not opposed to trying new tactics...but it needs to be reliable and have valid reasoning behind it

 

[Kanzaki]

Mario is better in doubles than singles.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

why try something new if we know it's going to be bad?


grounded cape is predictable, has a ton of delay, and is the worst thing you can do on shield...you might get someone with it once or twice but after that they'll figure out "hey...this thing he is doing is bad...let's punish him for it"

I'm not opposed to trying new tactics...but it needs to be reliable and have valid reasoning behind it

^ that "new" (which grounded cape really isn't new but w/e) isn't always better.

 

[Coolwhip]

I'm not saying keep doing it until your opponent starts learning how to punish it now.
At least use it 2 or 3 times in a set, not spaming it in one match though. lol

I guess i play mario in a different way that most people haven't seen before.
I always hear people say my mario is "Rarest skilled mario, does things i've never seen do with a low tier"
Now i'm not trying to make myself sound better then everyone else, cause i'm not.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

I'm not saying keep doing it until your opponent starts learning how to punish it now.
At least use it 2 or 3 times in a set, not spaming it in one match though. lol

I guess i play mario in a different way that most people haven't seen before.
I always hear people say my mario is "Rarest skilled mario, does things i've never seen do with a low tier"
Now i'm not trying to make myself sound better then everyone else, cause i'm not.

I have news for you man..."Rarest skilled mario, does things i've never seen do with a low tier"...we've all heard that from people before...people that play low tier characters get this all the time

and the thing is...even doing it 2 or 3 times in a set is not that good


let me ask you...in what situation do you think it would be more optimal for you to do a grounded cape?

 

[Coolwhip]

"cape induced landing lag" I sometimes do that against fair approaching characters like marth or metaknight for starters while grounded. Timing & spacing is key, yet abit stressful to consistency do. Theres a video explaining how to do it perfectly, yet it's just a situation move.

 

[Matador]

I can see it being used sort of like how ZSS uses her sideB in certain match-ups. Y'know, jab a shield or something, then run backwards to space sideB to the tip of its range. I can see how it'd be useful since it beats every non-disjointed move, and it outranges a great deal of disjointed moves. In certain match-ups, it could potentially have some uses. All theory though. I've given it a try a few times in the past and it wasn't fruitful.

If it weren't so laggy and slow, cape would be a serious threat.

 

[Solharath]

And this is one of the reasons why mario wouldn't move out of L-tier.
Cause we won't at least try new things that could potentially benefit mario as a character.

There is no potential benefit to a grounded cape. Some percent in what could be accomplished with greater reward with a safer and simpler ftilt? Grounded cape should be used just as a way to punish startup lag and reflect projectiles, really. There is too much lag to properly take advantage of a successful cape, only a return to a neutral position(again, accomplished easier with the range of ftilt or speedier and more percentage done with jabcombo or even jabcancelDSmash.)

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

There is no reason to use grounded cape lol. Just Ftilt there.

Aerial cape though? It's amazing.

 

[Solharath]

There is no reason to use grounded cape lol. Just Ftilt there.

Aerial cape though? It's amazing.

Aerial cape is best cape. I like to shorthop my cape and land with a uair to catch an opponent's shield drop.

So guys, quick question.

Sheik matchup. How do? I kept trading games back and forth and was growing a bit tired of Sheik's ability to be everywhere. I mean, I got a lot of experience from it already, but I was wondering how you guys were doing it in case I missed something.

 

[Matador]

I used to know that match-up. Haven't played it in ages though, so my knowledge on it is fuzzy.

 

[BSP]

Cape turning around even in shields would be godlike in brawl

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

cape not turning people around in shield was seriously like...the number 1 thing I was sad about when I first played

 

[Solharath]

On that note, Project M Mario too good.

 

[Z'zgashi]

@Grounded Cape: I actually sometimes use this, but really, its almost always not a good idea and rarely works, and even when it DOES work, you dont really get a lot out of it.

 

[Inferno3044]

Grounded cape should only be used to reflect projectiles.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Sheik matchup. How do? I kept trading games back and forth and was growing a bit tired of Sheik's ability to be everywhere. I mean, I got a lot of experience from it already, but I was wondering how you guys were doing it in case I missed something.

I played Tutu some this weekend. All I can tell you is just don't short hop at Sheik's Usmash kill percentages, otherwise the matchup is pretty basic. Try to avoid the ftilt stuff, even though Up-B can break it. If they're playing smart it will be hard to hit with Fsmash unless they do something dumb.

Gimping is weird but there's little reason not to go for it. I'm sure Fludd would mess up her recovery and set up for an easy cape, never got to play around with it though.

Sheik wins but it's not the worst thing in the world.

Also guys I'm picking up ZSS again because she's super fun and I think it actually brings a ton of balance to Mario's matchups, and I really enjoy playing her. Having a CP for the matchups I just really dislike for Mario will be fantastic.