Mario Boards: General Discussion

[JuxtaposeX]

I can see again!
Thank god Friday's over...

 

[A2ZOMG]

This **** is dumb.


First off, don't play Captain America. As fun as he is, he sucks. His only redeeming factor is his infinite (Cr. H>Shield Slash Hx3>J. Shield Slash M>Shield slash HX3>Repeat until dead.).

Spencer is amazing, and with Haggar has a dumb glitch that pretty much allows you to have your way with anyone as soon as you land a hyper.

Chris Redfield has a great camping game and does stupid good chip damage, especially the submachine gun. Abuse the **** out of the mine and incendiary grenade, since they allow crazy good stage control.

I run Viewtiful Joe/Morrigan/Wolverine or Shuma myself (As much as I hate it, Joe is not my best. I definitely do way better with Morrigan. Need to get that tech skill down though.).

I personally think Spencer isn't that good and really only has Bionic Lancer going for him. He has some funny overhead and command grab shenanigans to make him not terrible, but he isn't really great.

The Haggar glitch only works on like...three characters if I recall. Wolverine, Arthur, and Viewtiful Joe. Granted Wolverine is high tier, but still that's not a lot of characters to be using that glitch on. The only real reason you should be using Haggar is for Lariat tbh, and he really doesn't get great synergy with Spencer anyway. Wesker for example is a significantly more helpful partner for Spencer generally speaking having an assist that hits low and OTG.

Also if you're playing Chris, the H Grenade honestly isn't very useful. Takes too much commitment to get out most of the time. L Grenade is REALLY good, can be used like a GTFO move. Jump pistol shots are also very abuseable, covering space similar to that of Akuma's fireball.

My personal team is Arthur, Chris, Ryu/Dorm atm.

And Kanzaki, good job missing my point. Let me just make it clear. Boss sucks at Mario dittos. There's a LOT of people who would be able to easily beat him in those. You probably could do it since you're a lot campier than Boss. Pierce has done it and doesn't main Mario (in Brawl granted, but it's essentially the same idea). You don't have to pretend that Boss is the best ever when it's easy to observe from his matches that he has extremely obvious problems with his playstyle. Just from watching his playstyle I bet the MAJORITY of people here if they play Melee would in fact be able to beat Boss in Mario dittos if I simply told them to camp with tilts and F-smash. If they lose, then it means Boss stepped up his defensive game.

 

[2fast]

Are talking about boss's Mario dittoing skill in melee as well as brawl?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Sorta, but Mario dittos haven't changed since Melee. The campier/more patient player wins, and that is one of boss's weakest areas in general. He also just kinda doesn't know matchups that well.

There is one other matchup which like Mario dittos, camping is the dominant strategy and what wins the matchup for Mario. Ice Climbers. When you combine that those two areas are where boss has problems in his playstyle, it explains why Chudat bodies him consistently, even though Mario/Doc actually beat the Ice Climbers in Melee.

You can say Chudat is really good, which is true, but to be frank he's not THAT much more skilled than Boss to the point where he should be 3stocking Boss in a matchup that is clearly not in his favor. Boss just needs to seriously learn how to make better choices.

 

[2fast]

Considering the Mario dittos, would it count if I said Boss beat Kirin in a Mario ditto at Pound in tourney?

 

[fromundaman]

By the look of those combos the game looks so unfair but fun at the same time

Meh, pretty much all characters have combos like that, and if you'll notice, most of those actually require Zero to use multiple bars and/or X-factor, so it's not like you can do them every turn.

Plus those are all on standing CPUs. Depending on when you get hit by what and where you are at the time, the combo may not work and you'll have to improvise for smaller damage.

I personally think Spencer isn't that good and really only has Bionic Lancer going for him. He has some funny overhead and command grab shenanigans to make him not terrible, but he isn't really great.

The Haggar glitch only works on like...three characters if I recall. Wolverine, Arthur, and Viewtiful Joe. Granted Wolverine is high tier, but still that's not a lot of characters to be using that glitch on. The only real reason you should be using Haggar is for Lariat tbh, and he really doesn't get great synergy with Spencer anyway. Wesker for example is a significantly more helpful partner for Spencer generally speaking having an assist that hits low and OTG.

Also if you're playing Chris, the H Grenade honestly isn't very useful. Takes too much commitment to get out most of the time. L Grenade is REALLY good, can be used like a GTFO move. Jump pistol shots are also very abuseable, covering space similar to that of Akuma's fireball.

My personal team is Arthur, Chris, Ryu/Dorm atm.

Hmmm... Well, the fact that Spencer can start combos from anywhere, at any angle, and from pretty much any of his good moves makes him pretty good IMO. His command grab acts as an OTG. He's definitely not a bad character. Now is he the best character, nah, but he's probably up pretty high right now, though he's no She-Hulk or Amaretsu (Based on what I've seen, Amaretsu is stupid good.).
That being said, I didn't realize that glitch only worked on so few characters. Not as worried then, even though Haggar kind of sucks anyway if you camp him (Voomerang! Voomerang! Voomerang!).

Hmmm... I've found H Grenade limits my options a lot when coupled with the L grenade when I try to approach Chris. *Shrug*

Quick question: How does Dorm play? I can't seem to understand the character. I get he's supposed to keep you out, but he doesn't seem too great at doing that.


On a side note: Morrigan is WAY underrated, and V. Joe too but not as much as Morrigan. Like seriously, holy **** is she good.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

The glitch used to work on every character, but it was patched out with the Sentinel nerf.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hmmm... Well, the fact that Spencer can start combos from anywhere, at any angle, and from pretty much any of his good moves makes him pretty good IMO.

Well sorta, except his options dealing with projectiles are actually pretty bad. Air swings and Wire Pulls can only do so much, and his Wire Grapple special move is not safe. If he's not sitting on meter, he really doesn't have very many options to get around good projectile games.

His command grab acts as an OTG.

We're talking about different moves. Spencer has a command grab called Jaw Breaker. The Wire Grapple is not a grab, but it can hit OTG.

He's definitely not a bad character. Now is he the best character, nah, but he's probably up pretty high right now, though he's no She-Hulk or Amaretsu (Based on what I've seen, Amaretsu is stupid good.).

Dunno, I see Spencer as having more than just a few bad one on one matchups given that he's actually pretty bad at long range for the most part. He would be useless except for the fact he is strong up close given he has a decent overhead and command grab. Also Bionic Lancer is a STUPIDLY GOOD hyper move that actually gives him a real long range option.

That being said, I didn't realize that glitch only worked on so few characters. Not as worried then, even though Haggar kind of sucks anyway if you camp him (Voomerang! Voomerang! Voomerang!).

You did get the DLC update right? Sentinel's health was nerfed from 1,300,000 to 950,000, and the Spencer/Haggar glitch was tweaked to only work on a few characters.

Quick question: How does Dorm play? I can't seem to understand the character. I get he's supposed to keep you out, but he doesn't seem too great at doing that.

Dorm is a keepaway character that requires you to read your opponent's horizontal positioning to be most effective. He doesn't keepaway with projectiles the same way other characters do. The advantage of his keepaway is that it is very hit confirmable into massive damage, and also is very strong against other keepaway games.

The easiest strategy to abuse with Dorm is to plant a lot of Flame Carpets (down forward Heavy) and then proceed to use Dark Holes/Purification to cover any other space.

He also has Liberation, a special move which increases in effectiveness when you store more energy in his hands.

On a side note: Morrigan is WAY underrated, and V. Joe too but not as much as Morrigan. Like seriously, holy **** is she good.

Meh. She just does waaaaaay too little damage. She does have that meter building assist though.

 

[fromundaman]

Yeah got the patch, but heard that while they tried to fix the glitch, it was still there, so didn't know it only worked on those chars anymore.

Meh, IDK. Can't say I've messed with Spencer too much, but been seeing/hearing a lot about him.

Morrigan has some pretty damn good combos, and a really gay projectile game if she uses astral projection, but the problem is she requires a lot of meter to do much damage. Thankfully, her assist builds meter and is amazing. All in all, if you give her meter, she can easily do stupid damage without OTGs.

 

[Famous]

Sorta, but Mario dittos haven't changed since Melee. The campier/more patient player wins, and that is one of boss's weakest areas in general. He also just kinda doesn't know matchups that well.

There is one other matchup which like Mario dittos, camping is the dominant strategy and what wins the matchup for Mario. Ice Climbers. When you combine that those two areas are where boss has problems in his playstyle, it explains why Chudat bodies him consistently, even though Mario/Doc actually beat the Ice Climbers in Melee.

You can say Chudat is really good, which is true, but to be frank he's not THAT much more skilled than Boss to the point where he should be 3stocking Boss in a matchup that is clearly not in his favor. Boss just needs to seriously learn how to make better choices.

True@the Mario Ditto MU...EVERYONE camps me in Mario dittoes now, lol

 

[Inferno3044]

Camping is boring. Also I've gotten pretty bad at it over time due to lack of playing. I either don't camp or over camp now (normally don't camp). Gotta get my good habits back.

EDIT: **** Butler

 

[A2ZOMG]

Camping isn't necessarily boring. When you're playing against someone who knows how to deal with it, it can require a lot of skill and quick thinking to do correctly. The Mario ditto on the other hand is in fact extremely boring in both Melee and Brawl because a few specific moves dominate the matchup and the incentive to approach is almost non-existent.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Woah, I saw that post in real time, and then I saw the edit in real time o.o
That was ****ing cool.
OMG IT HAPPENED A SECOND TIME!

That's really cool

 

[A2ZOMG]

That's what happens when you have a live topic.

 

[Claire Diviner]

I can't stand Mario dittos. Mario's fun to mess around with, and you can do some mean, unpleasant things to your oponent with that cape if used correctly. My only gripe with him is his lack of kill power outside of Fsmash/Usmash, and his poor range. Still, it's Mario; everyone loves Mario.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I can put up with Mario's KO power just fine. What annoys me more is his really low damage per hit.

Like, Mario's damage per hit is only slightly better than like...ROB and Toon Link's. And I guess Metaknight, but Metaknight's other move properties are extra stupid.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I love Lucas' damage per hit.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Pow pow 21%

 

[fromundaman]

I like Ganon's damage per hit... it's everything else that sucks XD

 

[Matador]

Serious question:

Do you guys think that Mario is a bad character? Is that why our tourney representation is bad? Or is it due to the overall skill of our players?

Like, do you think it's possible for a San or Poltergust to come in the form of a Mario main?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'd say it's more the overall skill of our players as opposed to matchups. Yes we have stupid matchups like most of the cast does against the top tier, but to this day I still strongly believe that Mario mains in general haven't really reached the full potential of the character.

Technically though, about like 85% of the cast is bad and really has no business placing in tournament.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

I don't think he is as bad as people make him out to be but he is still pretty bad. Though I believe that every character that isn't viable to our current metagame is bad.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

I think Mario is bad, but not THAT bad. It's just that the characters that really shut us down are really popular.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

^ agreed w/ this guy

 

[Juushichi]

I think Mario is like... everything said and done, bottom of mid tier bad. And this is with a mid tier that includes everyone except for like... Bowser through Ganon. Except maybe bowser might be mid tier as well.

I really think that this game just has a lot of mid tier characters.

 

[2fast]

I agree that Mario isn't as bad as people make him out to be. I strongly believe though that I think our problem is the overall skill of our players. Honestly, I've always thought this. I feel Mario has more potential now and that no one has hit it. Flameleon, boss, kirin, I don't even think they've hit his max potential yet. I see us all improving though.

 

[hippiedude92]

2fast for best mario


*meat rides*

i co sign this.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

I honestly don't think Mario as a character can get any better, although the players definitely can.

I also decided to main him again after playing Ganon for a little while. It makes me feel a little better knowing that Mario is bad, but he's nowhere as hopeless as Ganon.

 

[Inferno3044]

Mario is a bad character. Not going to sugar coat it like the rest of you guys did. He lacks in very vital aspects of the game like range, recovery, grab range, damage per hit, etc. Fireballs aren't that big of a problem if you know what to do but are still decent. Something that I don't hear a lot of though about his weaknesses is that Mario has NO real options to advance while the opponent is in front of him and that the reward that he gets for hitting the opponent is very poor. Ike isn't a good character, but he can get a high reward off a read while Mario can't. Yoshi would probably be high tier if he didn't have such an awful shield which bumps him down to lower mid tier. There is definitely a possibility that there could be a Mario doing well. Mario has some good MUs in high tiers like Diddy, Pikachu, and Olimar. Snake isn't bad either. Unfortunately there aren't that many Olimar or Pikachu players and Snake is going down in popularity although Razer and Fatal are still really good Snake mains. Doing well against Diddy and Snake helps Mario's viability, but it's really not enough.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario's range is fine. His damage per hit is bad though and this above all is Mario's biggest problem because trades are rarely favorable for him. Furthermore his recovery is GOOD, just definitely not used correctly by most of our players. Low grab range sucks, but that's why we have fireballs and a decent Jab game.

Also weak forward options is kinda lame, but we have fireballs. Pivot walking is underused. F-tilt is also very underused even today. The only matchups where it honestly is just unbelievably stupid to have bad forward options are against Metaknight and Falco to be frank. You can complain that Marth is also lame for Mario, but honestly it's overrated how bad he is for Mario.

If you think Ike really does better at capitalizing on reads than Mario, you don't understand how to implement kill moves correctly or how to properly edgeguard. And just generally speaking, Mario's ability to score a KO with relative ease is really underrated, even in his worst matchups.

And Yoshi has more problems that are worse than a bad shield. Specifically his lack of a fast grab outside pivot grab is by far much more obviously crippling than anything else.

I don't think you honestly know what you're talking about. Nobody is saying Mario is tournament viable, but the point is most of the cast really isn't anyway. And the fact of the matter is there's a lot we AREN'T doing that could definitely make us a LOT better if we mastered it.

 

[vato_break]

Mario IS pretty bad

 

[Kanzaki]

Mario IS pretty bad.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Mario IS pretty bad.

 

[mars16]

Come on! mario is ...... Average

 

[2fast]

Mario IS pretty bad. But when people think Mario (and they've never played a good one) they think he's as hopeless as ganon but he's not that hopeless.

 

[Fire!]

We already reached our peak and unless we get some newcomers, we're gonna stay that way. Also


Mario IS pretty bad.

 

[2fast]

We already reached our peak and unless we get some newcomers, we're gonna stay that way.

Naw man, I mean, honestly when I look at Boss and Kirin, I feel their Mario's have reached their peaks but when I battle Matador, I see him getting better, I see Coolwhip getting better, and I think Flameleons getting better. The Mario's are improving and one day a new Mario will surpass Boss and Kirin. For now though, most of us are playing catch-up.

2fast for best mario

Lol I wish. I can't be best Mario cuz I don't know all of my MUs yet.

 

[Inferno3044]

Mario's range is fine. His damage per hit is bad though and this above all is Mario's biggest problem because trades are rarely favorable for him. Furthermore his recovery is GOOD, just definitely not used correctly by most of our players. Low grab range sucks, but that's why we have fireballs and a decent Jab game.

There are a lot of characters that have better range than Mario except Fsmash therefore his range is bad. Lack of dispoints also makes it bad.

His recovery is bad. It's one dimensional with cape as a stalling tactic (and FLUDD if you wanna get really creative). If Mario is hit off stage in a position where he has to use a mid air jump, then just hit/footstool him. Also if the opponent has a type of planking similar to Mario's cape (do a move then regrab the ledge. I know Samus has one) just do that in reaction to cape stalling.

Also weak forward options is kinda lame, but we have fireballs. Pivot walking is underused. F-tilt is also very underused even today. The only matchups where it honestly is just unbelievably stupid to have bad forward options are against Metaknight and Falco to be frank. You can complain that Marth is also lame for Mario, but honestly it's overrated how bad he is for Mario.

Ftilt is used to poke, not to advance. Fireballs are ok except you can PS/swat them easily. Marth vs. Mario is not overrated. It's god awful because spacing fair is free, can easily chase Mario down, and he gets in and it's hard to get out. Trust me on how hard it is. I have played Pierce countless times in Marth vs. Mario. When he wasn't as good, there was that slight chance of victory (and even then I had completely outplay him). Recently I can barely get a stock off if any.

If you think Ike really does better at capitalizing on reads than Mario, you don't understand how to implement kill moves correctly or how to properly edgeguard. And just generally speaking, Mario's ability to score a KO with relative ease is really underrated, even in his worst matchups.

I did not say Ike does it better. I said he gets higher rewards. Getting punished by Ike's Usmash > getting punished by Mario's Usmash. Mario's KO potential is mediocre at best. It's not that it's hard to land kill moves. It's that if Usmash or Dsmash isn't fresh, it isn't viable.

And Yoshi has more problems that are worse than a bad shield. Specifically his lack of a fast grab outside pivot grab is by far much more obviously crippling than anything else

His extremely slow shield drop makes shield grab not viable. Imagine how much better Yoshi would be if he could shield grab. Also he has dash grab which covers massive range and is definitely a viable grab and egg lay which is an air grab with good speed.

I don't think you honestly know what you're talking about. Nobody is saying Mario is tournament viable, but the point is most of the cast really isn't anyway. And the fact of the matter is there's a lot we AREN'T doing that could definitely make us a LOT better if we mastered it.

For me, the question was is Mario really bad. Most people said he wasn't that bad. I think he is pretty bad. That was my interpretation. Whether it was right or wrong I don't know.

Mario IS pretty bad

Mario IS pretty bad.

Mario IS pretty bad.

Quoted all times for truth

Mario IS pretty bad. But when people think Mario (and they've never played a good one) they think he's as hopeless as ganon but he's not that hopeless.

Reason why I do the stupidest **** when I play against Ganon.

 

[Matador]

Mmmk, thanks for your input, Marios.

 

[Javon89]

What's up Marios!

I guess Mario is pretty bad....but not forever.