Mario Boards: General Discussion

[Inferno3044]

I'm curious why Marth is a bad match-up? Like I find it a slight disadvantage, but that's just me.

Play a good Marth. He can hit Mario's shield for free basically, too light to get juggled, has a sword that outranges almost everything we have, amazing edgeguarding, and can easily punish Mario's recovery options.

Of all top tiers I firmly believe Marth and Snake are still the easiest. Though I haven't fought Kadaj or MikeHaze or such but for Snake I've battled Bizkit, MVD, Ally, and many other Snakes and I firmly believe Snake is still one of the easiest to deal with.

And thanks Fire! For my nice pink name :D.

Play a good Marth. That's all I have to say.

Finding good Marths is hard when everyone plays as him. That usually tends to be the reason why the MU is never represented correctly in practice.

There are very few Marth's. Kinda sucks because he is definitely a viable character but everyone just thinks he is a lesser MK.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Play a good Marth. He can hit Mario's shield for free basically, too light to get juggled, has a sword that outranges almost everything we have, amazing edgeguarding, and can easily punish Mario's recovery options.

Marth is not hard to juggle. His physics are actually almost perfect for it, being on the floaty side and closer to midweight (extreme weight class and being a fastfaller make you harder to juggle, though MOST heavyweights are easy to juggle due to their lack of escape options as well as usually not being fastfallers). Yeah it's a little stupid that that his F-air can get in the way of D-throw setups if he DIs away, but Mario actually does have a reasonably good combo and juggle game on Marth. As an added bonus, Mario does have a 5 frame advantage off Jab1 on Marth.

The fact that Marth can hit Mario's shield for free isn't as big of a deal as it sounds because he isn't going to be gaining much ground on you if he's spacing to be safe on block (furthermore, it's really not as completely free as it looks anyway. Learning to buffer U-air out of shield isn't a 100% solution, but it's one that helps a lot).

What is also important, and possibly more important than the fact Marth has some nice options for spacing safely is the is the fact Mario's shield sucks, and that trading hits with Marth tends to not be favorable. If Mario had a normal sized shield, that alone would improve the matchup by at least 5 points. If trading hits was also favorable for Mario, we would be looking at a slight disadvantage matchup at worst, one where Marth gets the edge most obviously through edgetrapping.

 

[_Kadaj_]

lol learing to buffer up air OoS will just get you laughed at vs Marth

Because it's not going to be anywhere near a Marth spacing properly lmao

FAMOUS WHERE ART THOU!

 

[~ Gheb ~]

lol @GW being a bad match-up. It's 2011 guys, GW isn't a decent character anymore!

Matador, I still don't think there's a point in representing Mario in the BBR. You're ought to represent him at tourney if anything.

 

[A2ZOMG]

lol learing to buffer up air OoS will just get you laughed at vs Marth

Because it's not going to be anywhere near a Marth spacing properly lmao

I'll be camping against a Marth that spaces properly.

lol @GW being a bad match-up. It's 2011 guys, GW isn't a decent character anymore!

I don't recall Europe having any really good G&W players. He's about as underplayed as Mario to be frank.

You can't CP G&W for the most part. His F-air and D-tilt are gay to deal with, and those moves make him very difficult to bait into F-smash. He edgeguards you consistently between F-air and D-air, which also happen to be really good for edgetrapping you as well. He also juggles you and techchases you quite well.

 

[HeroMystic]

Hm.

Instead of blindly going with past experiences I decided to watch recent videos of G&Ws instead, particularly from GIMR.

Definitely a new style of play from G&W.

If anyone is interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRjNLjQcebc

I'll have to reserve judgement on the MU until I play it.

 

[Inferno3044]

lol @GW being a bad match-up. It's 2011 guys, GW isn't a decent character anymore!

Matador, I still don't think there's a point in representing Mario in the BBR. You're ought to represent him at tourney if anything.

I agree that people gotta get that '08 mentality out of their heads. G&W is still a high tier character though. If I was to stand a chance against a good g&w main like vinnie or gimr then I would say it could possibly be -1. I would rather overestimate the difficulty of a MU than underestimate it.

 

[Matador]

I'm in a crew with Vinnie and I've taken matches from GIMR (Who's amazing btw. <3 GIMR)...

I think we lose, but not horribly.

But w/e...this debating **** is played out.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Yes, Matt, a lot of Marth players are not good, its very rare to find a good Marth, I already found a rapeage Marth, he's the only one that is actually gud in every match up.

 

[Inferno3044]

We used to have 2 good Marths in NJ/NY, but one is now super inactive as far as I know (Mintyflesh) and Pierce claims he is bad.

Yes, Matt, a lot of Marth players are not good, its very rare to find a good Marth, I already found a rapeage Marth, he's the only one that is actually gud in every match up.

Who?

 

[_Kadaj_]

Camping Marth doesn't work lol

There isn't one character in the game that camps and beats Marth

 

[vato_break]

Diddy

:190allday:

 

[Inferno3044]

Camping Marth doesn't work lol

There isn't one character in the game that camps and beats Marth

Does Marth beat Falco?

I agree about how Mario camping Marth is futile.

 

[Matt07]

Camping Marth doesn't work lol

There isn't one character in the game that camps and beats Marth

Metaknight's .

@Inferno - Thanks for the explanation .

@Lil Gerald - Nice! I played a few Marth's and the sets were super close for me.

 

[vato_break]

I hate marth, he's so dumb. he can beat mario litterally with only fair and grabs. serious

 

[_Kadaj_]

Mk doesn't camp marth

 

[A2ZOMG]

Does Marth beat Falco?

I agree about how Mario camping Marth is futile.

Kinda...I feel like the only reason Marth might have the edge on Falco is just because it's a little too stupidly easy for him to Up-B out of Falco's Jabs. Getting F-aired after he gets hit by a laser in the air is also kinda not funny.

I think Falco's edgeguarding however is underrated, especially in that particular matchup.

Back to Mario, if Marth is spacing properly, you mainly just have to make sure he isn't gaining ground from it while you angle shield. When you're pushed out of his range, this is an opportunity to put out fireballs and try to reset your spacing.

If Marth really is putting a lot of momentum into his approach, you simply need to observe it and punish it with U-air/B-air/Up-B. It's not THAT unbeatable. Yes he has a spacing where you can't do much about it, but him capitalizing on that specific spacing constantly for the sake of winning the matchup isn't likely going to happen. He wants to gain momentum and push you offstage so that he can edgetrap you.

I think the main thing that's a little stupid is that you can't duck under his rising F-air, but fortunately that's also the least safe on block.

Fighting G&W anyhow is basically the same as fighting Marth. He has a way better F-air, D-tilt, and grab game. And he can edgeguard/edgetrap you very effectively, and he's hard to CP. Marth edgetraps better and lands KOs a little more easily. G&W survives longer and edgeguards more consistently. Both matchups suck unnecessarily because your shield sucks.

 

[vato_break]

marth has CG to spike, which is why haze beat larry last time they played, 3 stock.

 

[Inferno3044]

Kinda...I feel like the only reason Marth might have the edge on Falco is just because it's a little too stupidly easy for him to Up-B out of Falco's Jabs. Getting F-aired after he gets hit by a laser in the air is also kinda not funny.

I think Falco's edgeguarding however is underrated, especially in that particular matchup.

Back to Mario, if Marth is spacing properly, you mainly just have to make sure he isn't gaining ground from it while you angle shield. When you're pushed out of his range, this is an opportunity to put out fireballs and try to reset your spacing.

If Marth really is putting a lot of momentum into his approach, you simply need to observe it and punish it with U-air/B-air/Up-B. It's not THAT unbeatable. Yes he has a spacing where you can't do much about it, but him capitalizing on that specific spacing constantly for the sake of winning the matchup isn't likely going to happen. He wants to gain momentum and push you offstage so that he can edgetrap you.

I think the main thing that's a little stupid is that you can't duck under his rising F-air, but fortunately that's also the least safe on block.

Fighting G&W anyhow is basically the same as fighting Marth. He has a way better F-air, D-tilt, and grab game. And he can edgeguard/edgetrap you very effectively, and he's hard to CP. Marth edgetraps better and lands KOs a little more easily. G&W survives longer and edgeguards more consistently. Both matchups suck unnecessarily because your shield sucks.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12271191&postcount=405

Read this please about what Marth can do to Mario.

marth has CG to spike, which is why haze beat larry last time they played, 3 stock.

Oh yeah. That CG is a pain.

 

[A2ZOMG]

CG to spike is gay. Shouldn't really happen normally, but Marth is advantageous against Falco for completely different reasons.

Pierce has a number of things wrong.

Yes if Mario is facing forward or if Marth is perfectly spaced (which he's not going to be consistently if he's doing rising F-airs which conveniently are the main form of F-air that don't get crouched under), he can't do anything to Marth's F-air on normal block.

Secondly, Marth doesn't edgeguard Mario better. Marth is far worse at exploiting the ledge than Metaknight and has far fewer options for covering high recoveries. Marth does edgetrap slightly better than Metaknight though.

Mario's combos on Metaknight are not better either. Metaknight goes higher from D-throw and also is less vulnerable to U-air juggles due to his extreme light weight. If I recall, Metaknight also is a character who does not get U-tilt chained at 0. Mario's Jab cancels also don't really lead to anything on Metaknight, while on Marth they actually get very respectable frame advantage.

For the most part, Pierce has a lot of things right and his insight is still outstanding, but I really think his opinion is skewed towards the fact he's far more experienced as a Marth player.

 

[vato_break]

idk mane haze landed those cg to spikes pretty easily

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well then Larry wasn't playing gay enough. =P

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

We used to have 2 good Marths in NJ/NY, but one is now super inactive as far as I know (Mintyflesh) and Pierce claims he is bad.



Who?

Raytay824, he's on AIB, he plays online it's offline. Best Marth on wifi..

 

[Inferno3044]

Well then Larry wasn't playing gay enough. =P

Marth has deceptively good grab range. Don't underestimate it.

Raytay824, he's on AIB, he plays online it's offline. Best Marth on wifi..

But it's wifi...

 

[A2ZOMG]

Inferno, that doesn't matter. There's a half billion ways to fundamentally not get grabbed if it really matters in the matchup. A little gimmick like Marth's F-throw to spike is gay, but it only works at really low percents, and he definitely should not be trying to force it.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

So Larry is bad too now?

 

[Inferno3044]

So Larry is bad too now?

Precisely.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

ITT: A2 is the best Falco.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah I mean seriously, I watched him choke so badly against M2K at WGF. It was awful.

And I almost beat him in teams like a year ago. Seriously, where you at Larry? My Mario shouldn't be almost making 1v2 3 stock comebacks in doubles against YOUR Falco should it?

 

[Inferno3044]

Falco is bad in teams though. And this was a year ago. And he was probably sandbagging.

 

[vato_break]

larry's actually been working toward droping falco in doubles and picking up mk, from what i heard.

 

[Inferno3044]

larry's actually been working toward droping falco in doubles and picking up mk, from what i heard.

Falco is bad in teams

Exactly. Btw Mango uses Falco in brawl teams.

 

[vato_break]

mango is playing brawl again? wut

 

[Inferno3044]

mango is playing brawl again? wut

He teamed with Pierce at Pound (no idea how that happened). Stupidly enough Pierce and Mango was put in a pool with Kadaj and Nick Riddle, Pink Fresh and Coney, Nicole and Fogo, and Lain and Shugo. Stupid pool is stupid.

 

[Kanzaki]

Hi guys, I won first place in a tourney all Mario at my school. I'm cool now.


*e-penis raises.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Lol @ schools hosting Brawl tournies, the whole entire school be free booty.

 

[vato_break]

not at my school

 

[Kanzaki]

Got a free wireless keyboard that retails for like 80... and also got Killzone 3, PS3 controller, and a 5 dollar gift card... they were all brand new

Not bad for a 2 dollar entry xD

 

[Matador]

Wtf dude...

I got a cheap *** trophy for winning tourneys at my school...

 

[Kanzaki]

Haha the club that hosted the tourney hosts it every quarter before finals, they feed us too!! And the good stuff like Pad Thai xD