Mario Boards: General Discussion

[Matador]

Snake's Dsmash is so silly.

But his recovery can't have gotten worse...

Btw, getting the hang of this wavedashing. Anyone wanna play??

 

[MP8]

What's project M?

 

[fromundaman]

Snake's Dsmash is so silly.

But his recovery can't have gotten worse...

Btw, getting the hang of this wavedashing. Anyone wanna play??

What? For melee that's a pretty damn good recovery I'd say.

What's project M?

BURN THE HERETIC!

Here's info on it: http://projectm.smashmods.com/
And you can find the download link in this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260812

 

[Matador]

What? For melee that's a pretty damn good recovery I'd say.

I dunno, it seems like the airdodge change screwed him.

For Melee tho, yeah. Even for Brawl it seems okay. Certain characters are gonna **** the pants off him offstage tho. Mario's new bair and fair are just one example.

 

[MP8]

BURN THE HERETIC!

Here's info on it: http://projectm.smashmods.com/
And you can find the download link in this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260812

Ah, gotcha. I'm not too informed on these things but wasn't Brawl + an approach at bringing the Melee aspect to Brawl or is this taking it a step further?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Brawl+ sucks ***. Most noob friendly and disorienting excuse of a competitive hack that ever existed. It's only redemption is historically being the first of hacks.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Brawl+ sucks ***. Most noob friendly and disorienting excuse of a competitive hack that ever existed. It's only redemption is historically being the first of hacks.

Pretty much sums up Brawl+

 

[MP8]

So this isn't something that requires a long process and doesn't risks bricking your Wii? All of it seems pointless anyways, sticking to the basics is fine by me. It sounds cool of course but modifications to combine two good games in their own rights is silly. The only thing I wish is for Mewtwo to come back. Now if that happens, hell yeah with this be worth it.

BURN THE HERETIC!

No comment. <--Wait...

 

[2fast]

Woot! I'm all registered for Pound :D. I even took Inferno's advice and actually registered for singles instead of just spectating. Though I have no faith in my Mario whatsoever but oh well.

 

[Fire!]

The only thing I wish is for Mewtwo to come back. Now if that happens, hell yeah with this be worth it. .

http://projectm.smashmods.com/characters.php

See that question mark there?

Personally, I have much more respect for Project M then I do any other Brawl mod.

 

[MP8]

Awesome, now we're talking. Also, I'm guessing that Shiek, ZSS, and the Pokemon will have their own slots? Because that would great as well. Assuming all these will come true, looks like my out-look on it has been altered. I just hope Mewtwo looks natural and not with a customed feel.

 

[Omari]

I'm confirmed (finally) for *Pound* V!!!!!! **** is madHYPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE now! Let's go!

 

[2fast]

Okay wait, so which Marios here are going to Pound? I know Matador, Inferno, Omari, I remember Famous say he was going, KirinBlaze, and I have no idea about boss. Anyone else?

 

[Inferno3044]

Good **** 2fast. Too bad Matador is a noob and only payed spectator. I plan to get to round 2 pools again. Hopefully farther (or at least have a better score in round 2. I only took a game off of someone because they went their alt for fun and SD'd). As of now, Tant said to expect pools of 5 for round 1 and top 3 move on. I got 3rd with 6 people so I should be fine. Just a tip for everyone: when pools come out post them. See if anybody knows who they are.

 

[HeroMystic]

Ah, gotcha. I'm not too informed on these things but wasn't Brawl + an approach at bringing the Melee aspect to Brawl or is this taking it a step further?

Putting things in a more objective perspective, Brawl+ was made as a reaction to the imbalances of vBrawl. Ideally it was supposed to take the "good" in Melee and the "good" of Brawl and slap them together for a good competitive game.

The problem that arised with this however is the game was all about spamming attacks to do easy combos, so strategy became less of a factor.

 

[Sleek Media]

I actually find bBrawl to be the most enjoyable mod. Plays just like regular Brawl, and gets rid of most of the cheap crap.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yes, BBrawl is a really really good hack. They just came out with a new build that changed the Ice Climbers to no longer have any infinite chaingrabs (Nana can only U-throw, Ice Blocks no longer cause forced getup), but instead Popo is a stronger standalone character, and desynchs were made much more practical and easier to do (when Popo does Utilt/Ftilt/Dtilt, Nana jumps/DA/Dashgrabs instead). Check it out.

 

[Sleek Media]

Oh, wow. Didn't know they made a new one. Why is this not the standard for tournaments?

...wait, nevermind. Can't be having all the high tier players lose their advantages. That would be noobish.

 

[Matador]

Good **** 2fast. Too bad Matador is a noob and only payed spectator. I plan to get to round 2 pools again. Hopefully farther (or at least have a better score in round 2. I only took a game off of someone because they went their alt for fun and SD'd). As of now, Tant said to expect pools of 5 for round 1 and top 3 move on. I got 3rd with 6 people so I should be fine. Just a tip for everyone: when pools come out post them. See if anybody knows who they are.

Not gonna be able to stay all 3 days, nor am I gonna be able to stay late any one of those 3 days.

Be happy tho. You'll be graced by my presence for a short time, at least

 

[Inferno3044]

Yes, BBrawl is a really really good hack. They just came out with a new build that changed the Ice Climbers to no longer have any infinite chaingrabs (Nana can only U-throw, Ice Blocks no longer cause forced getup), but instead Popo is a stronger standalone character, and desynchs were made much more practical and easier to do (when Popo does Utilt/Ftilt/Dtilt, Nana jumps/DA/Dashgrabs instead). Check it out.

It's nice and balanced but to me it's nothing I would really get a kick out of. Brawl- is fun because it's not meant to really be taken seriously. It's meant to be really fun. <3 Sonic, Squirtle, and Ivy. Brawl+ is lulzy. I remember back in '09 my younger brother and Pierce did brawl+ teams and Pierce told him just use fair and DB. He listened and they won lol.

Oh, wow. Didn't know they made a new one. Why is this not the standard for tournaments?

...wait, nevermind. Can't be having all the high tier players lose their advantages. That would be noobish.

It's not the standard because it's a hack. Also if you're going to complain about high tiers, there's something stopping you from playing a high tier.

Not gonna be able to stay all 3 days, nor am I gonna be able to stay late any one of those 3 days.

Be happy tho. You'll be graced by my presence for a short time, at least

Lol. Glad to know that.

 

[Sleek Media]

It's not the standard because it's a hack.

Of course. It was a rhetorical question.

Also if you're going to complain about high tiers, there's something stopping you from playing a high tier.

Switching to a high tier character only makes things worse. One less player with variety, one less player raising the game of that character, etc etc. People who switch characters just to have a better chance at winning are pathetic. It's not my fault this game is horribly imbalanced. Sakurai didn't call me up and ask me to do any playtesting, so I can complain about the bad job they did with certain characters all I want. If you don't like it, skip my posts.

 

[Inferno3044]

Switching to a high tier character only makes things worse. One less player with variety, one less player raising the game of that character, etc etc. People who switch characters just to have a better chance at winning are pathetic. It's not my fault this game is horribly imbalanced. Sakurai didn't call me up and ask me to do any playtesting, so I can complain about the bad job they did with certain characters all I want. If you don't like it, skip my posts.

I understand you, but it's fact that playing a better character will generally do more. It's really not pathetic to switch in exchange for having a better chance of winning. I used to be the same way about this, but it really makes sense. Look at LeBron James. He was on a terrible team and now he is on the Heat, a much better team than the Cavaliers. Is he pathetic?

Also, you are completely wrong to say this game is unbalanced. It's actually a very balanced game minus some extreme outliers on both sides. Yes MK is without a doubt the best character in the game, but he isn't unbeatable. Anyone who really thinks MK should be banned doesn't know what falls under the criteria of ban worthy.

Look at Gill in SF3 Third Strike, Akuma from SSF2 Turbo, or Mewtwo in Pokemon RBY and tell me MK is as broken as those 3.

 

[Juushichi]

I'd be up for playing P:M with anyone tomorrow.

 

[Sleek Media]

I understand you, but it's fact that playing a better character will generally do more. It's really not pathetic to switch in exchange for having a better chance of winning. I used to be the same way about this, but it really makes sense. Look at LeBron James. He was on a terrible team and now he is on the Heat, a much better team than the Cavaliers. Is he pathetic?

lol, I can't believe you'd make a reference like that. Two completely different things. Besides, pro athletes go where their contracts take them. Except for jail on occasion. Nothing else to it.

Also, you are completely wrong to say this game is unbalanced. It's actually a very balanced game minus some extreme outliers on both sides. Yes MK is without a doubt the best character in the game, but he isn't unbeatable. Anyone who really thinks MK should be banned doesn't know what falls under the criteria of ban worthy.

I guess it would be balanced if you wiped out about half the cast on both ends of the tier list. But since that's not the case, the game is not very balanced at all. It is horribly balanced.

Look at Gill in SF3 Third Strike, Akuma from SSF2 Turbo, or Mewtwo in Pokemon RBY and tell me MK is as broken as those 3.

Not seeing the relevance. You're suggesting that a character with no weaknesses or bad match ups is justified because there are even more broken characters in other games?

Look, it all boils down to this. The "competitive" smash scene is more or less run entirely by people on this board. Those same people have spent the last three years dissecting Brawl down to its last frame. They've made a huge investment studying gameplay with this closed little set of rules and call it the "metagame". They are not going to do anything that will change the metagame, period. That's why the rules are always the same with no variation, and why no mod, no matter how perfectly balanced, will ever be encouraged for tournament use. The community has dug itself into a cozy little rut, and it will stay there until the next game comes out (and even then, some won't want to move on, as with Melee).

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Not gonna be able to stay all 3 days, nor am I gonna be able to stay late any one of those 3 days.

Be happy tho. You'll be graced by my presence for a short time, at least

Lmao xD how short is short?

Edit: This is 2fast btw, using my friends account.

You're so stupid 2fast.

 

[condemned_soul]

screw it here the link

http://s190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/king_sa****/?action=view&current=IMAG0008.jpg

 

[Kanzaki]

Hmm.. project m is pretty awkward o.O

 

[Inferno3044]

lol, I can't believe you'd make a reference like that. Two completely different things. Besides, pro athletes go where their contracts take them. Except for jail on occasion. Nothing else to it.

They are actually fairly similar. What team he was going to go to was made into a great deal and multiple teams offered contracts for him. He chose the team he thought he had the best chance of winning with, which was the Miami Heat. He didn't have to go there. He chose to. Just like you can choose whether you play a low tier or a high tier character.

I guess it would be balanced if you wiped out about half the cast on both ends of the tier list. But since that's not the case, the game is not very balanced at all. It is horribly balanced.

You are sounding really ignorant about this game. It's impossible to balance 37 unique characters. I bet even in BBrawl, which is meant to be fully balanced, you could create a tier list.

Not seeing the relevance. You're suggesting that a character with no weaknesses or bad match ups is justified because there are even more broken characters in other games?

First of all MK has weaknesses. Secondly, the reason MK isn't banworthy is because he doesn't make the cast unviable. If Akuma wasn't banned in SSF2 Turbo, no character in the game would be viable against him and in competition everything would be Akuma dittos. That's why he is banned. MK does not do that, therefore he is not bannable. There are many non-MK players that have beaten top MK players. I can list tons of non-MK players that have beaten top MKs.

Look, it all boils down to this. The "competitive" smash scene is more or less run entirely by people on this board. Those same people have spent the last three years dissecting Brawl down to its last frame. They've made a huge investment studying gameplay with this closed little set of rules and call it the "metagame". They are not going to do anything that will change the metagame, period. That's why the rules are always the same with no variation, and why no mod, no matter how perfectly balanced, will ever be encouraged for tournament use. The community has dug itself into a cozy little rut, and it will stay there until the next game comes out (and even then, some won't want to move on, as with Melee).

The reason a modified version will never be played is because it's not Brawl; it's a hacked version. No hacked game has, is, or ever will be standard in tournament. This is mainly because it would require people to hack their console, get the hacked version of the game, and update it regularly. Also, having to update the game would constantly change things. Let's say Mario in BBrawl was overpowered. So in the next version, they nerf Mario and he can't do things he was able to do before. Brawl is the game that comes in the case and doesn't change. It provides things set in stone instead of balance changes out the wazoo which and make or break characters at any given time.

If you really don't like brawl and think it's bad, don't play. I'm just going to tell you now that no game is perfectly balanced. There will always be high tiers and low tiers.

 

[Sleek Media]

They are actually fairly similar. What team he was going to go to was made into a great deal and multiple teams offered contracts for him. He chose the team he thought he had the best chance of winning with, which was the Miami Heat. He didn't have to go there. He chose to. Just like you can choose whether you play a low tier or a high tier character.

I have nothing to say to this except *facepalm*

You are sounding really ignorant about this game. It's impossible to balance 37 unique characters. I bet even in BBrawl, which is meant to be fully balanced, you could create a tier list.

Who can say whether something so complex is perfectly balanced or not? Regardless, have you actually tried BBrawl yet? Once you do, it won't take very long for you to realize how wrong you are for shooting your mouth off about something you haven't even played.

First of all MK has weaknesses. Secondly, the reason MK isn't banworthy is because he doesn't make the cast unviable. If Akuma wasn't banned in SSF2 Turbo, no character in the game would be viable against him and in competition everything would be Akuma dittos. That's why he is banned. MK does not do that, therefore he is not bannable. There are many non-MK players that have beaten top MK players. I can list tons of non-MK players that have beaten top MKs.

He's the only character in the game with no disadvantageous matchups at all. That alone makes him ban-worthy, since there is absolutely no reason not to play him if your main goal is to win. He doesn't make every character in every situation unviable...just most of the characters most of the time, and very, VERY rarely you can back him into a 50/50 situation. Of course, if he wins the first match, you might as well quit anyway since his CP will destroy you.

The reason a modified version will never be played is because it's not Brawl; it's a hacked version. No hacked game has, is, or ever will be standard in tournament. This is mainly because it would require people to hack their console, get the hacked version of the game, and update it regularly. Also, having to update the game would constantly change things. Let's say Mario in BBrawl was overpowered. So in the next version, they nerf Mario and he can't do things he was able to do before. Brawl is the game that comes in the case and doesn't change. It provides things set in stone instead of balance changes out the wazoo which and make or break characters at any given time.

If you really don't like brawl and think it's bad, don't play. I'm just going to tell you now that no game is perfectly balanced. There will always be high tiers and low tiers.

So, you're saying using BBrawl would be bad because it gets updated? You mean like real fighting games? What's with the mentality that if you learn a combo or something, you can never lose it ever? That's just lazy, man.

Also, to plug BBrawl some more, you don't need to hack your Wii or anything. You just unzip a folder on your SD card and you're done. They did an amazing job with making it accessible.

Brawl is horribly unbalanced when played with the ruleset you guys run your tournaments on. It will always suck when you play it like that. Everyone knows it. It's best enjoyed as a party game with your friends, when player dynamics make up for any flaws inherent in the gameplay.

 

[Omari]

@Inferno & Sleek Media: May you two man up, call it a day & drop pointless arguments? Thanks.

The point: (once, again) is how to break Mario (how to utilize him to his full potential & to the best of your ability) in Super Smash Bros. Brawl (the game we all play), it's not about whether or whether not Balanced Brawl (or any Brawl [insert math symbol here] for that matter) is actually balanced (or about how balanced you think it is; obviously people will always have different opinions

Spoiler

which is why the **** they're called...................................................................................(wait4it)...................................................................................opinions.

.

 

[Matador]

Lmao xD how short is short?

Edit: This is 2fast btw, using my friends account.

I'm metro-ing there so I gotta at least leave before the buses n stuff stop running.

I'll be up there at least like...8 hours or so?

 

[Juushichi]

So Kanzaki's Mario M (Ha, there's no math sign!) is pretty good.

Also, I wouldn't call their argument pointless. They both have valid points, but I doubt other people on the boards want to see it at this point.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Like omg..

 

[Inferno3044]

So Kanzaki's Mario M (Ha, there's no math sign!) is pretty good.

Also, I wouldn't call their argument pointless. They both have valid points, but I doubt other people on the boards want to see it at this point.

If you guys want me to stop I will, but I want to end with a couple of things:

1. The main reason it won't be standard is due to it being a hacked version. I'm not saying that BBrawl is worse or not as well balanced. I'm saying that brawl is the game that was made. I don't know of any game that uses a hack as a standard.

2. The fact that a character has no bad MUs is not a reason to make him banworthy. Sagat in SF4, Fox in SSBM, Pikachu in SSB, Nu in BB:CT, and Bang in BB:CS all have no bad MUs. Should they be banned?

3. Who do you think is unbalanced in this game? (Give details) If you made your own rules for tournaments, what would they be?

4. Once again, if you don't like the game on a competitive level don't play it that way.

 

[Kanzaki]

I've so far played 2 people in Project M, and am undefeated >.>


*e-penis boner

 

[Omari]

Also, I wouldn't call their argument pointless. They both have valid points, but I doubt other people on the boards want to see it at this point.

Okay maybe wrong terminology (my fault) but it is irrelevant due to smashers mainly competing in Super Smash Bros. Brawl (with no math symbol).

 

[Matador]

Ur undefeated Kanzaki?

What a coincidence...me too...(not rly)

See me, dawg?

 

[Omari]

Can't wait to see you KM at PV. Sucks that you have to leave on time but at least you get to come so I'm grateful.

 

[Matador]

Main reason I'm even going is to see my Mario bros.

I'm putting **** on the back-burner for this tourney.

 

[A2ZOMG]

@Inferno, SF4 Sagat was disadvantaged to Akuma. Just sayin.

Project M is reeeeealy overhyped. Gonna say that much.

Cast seems balanced except for Link afaik, Link still sucks as far as I know. He's got some cool moves (including dem combos on fastfallers and dat scraaaaah!!!), a marginally better recovery, and that's about it, and his mobility is still not good. Oh and Boomerang has issues whiffing in point blank range (tested on Falco).

You can't WD out of shield while holding a shield button. Airdodging also feels extremely weird given that a light press on a trigger button triggers an airdodge. No Lightshielding either.

B-air -> waveland with Mario seems harder to do, partly because the timing was changed (in part due to the shield mechanic changes).

Mario and Ganondorf CANNOT fullhop waveland on DL64s lower platforms.

I'm getting the feeling that Project M is going to mess up my Melee game more than Brawl, given how much more subtly timing and mechanics have been changed significantly...either way I do at least think where they are going in terms of balance is pretty good.