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Majoras Mask Mafia! DGames' Longest Game Ends - Who Won?!?!?!?

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
*bows*

It'd be a lot harder if there were multiples doing it; people would just start posting funny pictures.


OS, where do you stand on Xastrn then? I haven't heard your thoughts on him at all.
Nowhere really. He's in the basket with everyone else. If I was going to lynch anyone based off the minimal effort I've put into this I'd lynch Solid.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
He fits the profile. Look at his activity history and how and when he responds and what he says. Open-ended dead ends are all too common.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Also, the amount of social loafers in this game makes me cringe. Even though I am partaking.
 

#HBC | Nabe

Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
Joined
Oct 21, 2010
Messages
3,932
Location
Can't breathe, but the view is equal to the taste
However, why did you go to Xastrn? I have an inkling as to why yet again however I need to ask you for confirmation because I don't wanna assume things.
In general I've found something in every post of his that seems scummy. In particular his recent vote on Werekill seemed opportunistic and was the latest in a string of votes whose reasoning I couldn't reconcile with a town mindset.

More recently, I am liking the wagon. Keep asking for answers to your questions. I'll post again tonight.
 

Xastrn

Dastrn|Xatres
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
239
Location
Dastrn and Xatres Hydra
Wow, I can't believe how bad your post was. You called it a "string of votes" when I made one early vote and one vote mid Day and that's it. You just pulled that right out of your ***.

FOS Nabe.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
Wow, I can't believe how bad your post was. You called it a "string of votes" when I made one early vote and one vote mid Day and that's it. You just pulled that right out of your ***.

FOS Nabe.
Your reasonings for things are terrible and I think that's like the 5th person you've FoS'd (may be an exaggeration, may not be)
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
*bows*

It'd be a lot harder if there were multiples doing it; people would just start posting funny pictures.




Nowhere really. He's in the basket with everyone else. If I was going to lynch anyone based off the minimal effort I've put into this I'd lynch Solid.
So you've put minimal effort into reads and analyzing this game, but you put the effort into making fancy graphs and tables for it?
 

Dabuz

Fraud at Smash
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
6,057
Location
Being the most hated
Thanks raz.

I don't think I've said I have no clue why. Link me saying it if I'm remembering incorrectly. I know I've said there's no good case on me, despite several votes. But that's different.

The idea is that people are perceiving my case on RR as weak, and they haven't seen my push hard on anyone all game and then I suddenly got all over RR for a relatively small issue. They are likely perceiving a disparity in my playstyle.

I feel that I've explained the roots of my issue with RR. I also feel that I've been consistent in my explanation of how I view the usefulness of votes on day1 in particular.

I'm interested to hear how other players who aren't on my wagon think about all this stuff. It looks like I'm at L-2 or L-3, depending on if X1 has corrected his votecount (you had me voting for myself instead of for RR). Whoever's not on my wagon, can you chime in on this stuff? I've asked a lot of @everyone questions that have been largely ignored. I don't get as irritated as some people do when my questions get missed, but it'd be a shame to let a lynch go through without half the game's participation. My flip, should this lynch go through, needs to be useful and give you all lots to work with. You've seen a lot of interaction between me and circus, J, raz, and to a lesser extent OS and werekill and RR. But hat leaves John, Nabe, Kantrip, dabuz, and a few others that haven't been quite as active in this case (not to the same extent as the others, anyways).

dabuz, nabe and circus are the weak middle-wagon hoppers. raz to a lesser extent, because he joined mostly because you two are buddying. (side note: I've rubbed OS' shoulders a bit this game. raz, J, and t-blocks have much more actively buddied. I got called out for mine. they didn't. anyone want to offer an explanation?)

j, i don't understand your last question with the hand slam gif. can you rephrase it for me?

I'm logging off for the next 8 hours or so. off to work. i might hop in to read from time to time but I can't do much besides that, and probably won't post again until about 7pm eastern.

[COLOR="YellowGreen"[If i pointed out a few things i dislike about this post, could i expect you to respond to my statements/ questions?[/COLOR]


[quote="Nabe, post: 13485719"]It's a great deal less work to put together a table of data than it is to process potential town/scum motivations on the same scale. Numbers and facts aren't mutable.[/QUOTE]

This post makes me wonder, does posting a chart even count as a town tell? Or would it better be read as a way scum can look pro-town?
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
If that question's for me, then I don't know. It would be a question for OS.

Though it does take time, still. I'm not sure how much of that OS has or had, but making all of those visuals can't have been equivalent to posting one-liners about once a page.
 

T-block

B2B TST
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
11,841
Location
Edmonton, AB, Canada
I am FINISHED the week from HELL =D

unvote

Okay, here's what I'm getting from the case on Xastrn:

The main point in the case against him is that his push against Red Ryu was weakly based, and reasoning given was inconsistent with his other actions. People are questioning his motivation behind pushing Red Ryu so hard, especially when combined with the fact that he also wants Werekill dead, but hasn't been pushing him.

There is also the secondary point that his defence has been weak, and it looks like he has been, as Circus put it, caught faking content and is unsure of how to act now. There have also been accusations of attempts to open doors to launch a counterattack on his accusers, as well as of ignoring certain questions.

Am I missing anything major?

The case is not enough to convince me Xastrn is the play quite yet. I feel that it is exaggerated on both fronts. I was able to read the exchange thoroughly after they had occurred, and without bias, and I think Circus should go back and do the same. Circus' 902 misrepresents Xastrn, as he had already stated that he is okay with RR not being the lynch in 897. I think what's happening here is that Xastrn is defending himself from multiple points regarding RR, and it is being interpreted as a continuation of the push on RR, when that's not the case. As for the second point, the accusation of opening doors to jump back at the attacker could easily be attributed to posting style (accusation in post 920). He's answered questions in 914. I think I could be convinced, but it's not there yet.

@Circus, Nabe: Thoughts on the above? Does Circus' 902 still accurately represent your reasons for voting Xastrn?

I'm sure there's at least one scum in Circus/Nabe/Xastrn.

The behaviour of Kantrip and Solid with respect to the Xastrn wagon was interesting, but those suspicions have been voiced by others already and I don't feel the need to echo them. I'll look into it more.

I'll clarify some of the other reads I provided in that terrible post I made:

I do have a noobtown read on Frio, based on the early posts by him, but I'm obviously not too confident in it since we've seen so little from him. I can confirm that he's busy at school, and I'll be waiting to see more from him.

I don't think Panta is my top pick anymore. I dislike his slot, and I could definitely see it being scum, but it is very easy to hop on his wagon and I think we can do better for Day 1. Plus, I think if he is scum it will be easier to read him later on.

I said I was feeling better about dabuz, but I think I'm going to retract that statement after taking a closer look at his "case" on Xastrn. Many of his points were extremely weak, and some of them were just way off-base. I like that he's no longer asking useless questions to fake activity, but I question the motivation behind the push. One thing to note is that he says "+10 scum points" for trying to get on OS' good side, yet has no issue with my compliment to Raziek early, and that was less related to the game than Xastrn's was.

To answer your question about RR, Xastrn, he's leaning town to me at the moment. However, it's likely that part of the reason why is that you were attacking him with a fairly weak case, and he defended adequately. I see his recent shenanigans as null, and within that, I've seen at least some scumhunting. It's nothing to praise, but it's more than a lot of people in this game have done. I'm not interested in an RR lynch.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
FUUUUUU-

So umm... my laptop was restarted, and I didn't have my post saved. I'm probably going to have to remake it.
 

Lore

Infinite Gravity
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
14,135
Location
Formerly 'Werekill' and 'NeoTermina'
FUUUUUU-

So umm... my laptop was restarted, and I didn't have my post saved. I'm probably going to have to remake it.
Why do I get the feeling that we'll see even more of these posts? :/

"Oh guys, my computer messed up."
"Oh, my house burnt down."
"Oh, ninjas killed my family."
"Oh, ***** I look like Goku."

Stop faking content by posting reasons for not having content.

(which reminds me: RR, I'll get on your reply right now)
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
That's quite the accusation. If I wanted to post up some excuse I'd say some **** about school or midterms or something.
 

Lore

Infinite Gravity
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
14,135
Location
Formerly 'Werekill' and 'NeoTermina'
I'm rereading stuff, and I found this gem.

blah blah

"If Xastrn is scum, who are his scummates?"

Answering this wouldn't help town. If the lynch happens, wait until the actual flip to decide the answer to this.

Blah blah blah
He's basically saying here that theorizing connections is unimportant for a lynch choice. Not sure if dumb or scum.

In fact, all we've seen is bad questions, mediocre ideas, and faking of content. Dumb or scum? You decide, fellow townies.

FoS: Kantrip
 

Lore

Infinite Gravity
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
14,135
Location
Formerly 'Werekill' and 'NeoTermina'
That's quite the accusation. If I wanted to post up some excuse I'd say some **** about school or midterms or something.
Accusation? I'm just stating the facts: you have never followed up with your promise for a larger post (which doesn't need to be super duper ultra long anyway), and you constantly offer up excuses as a way to say "look guys, content!"
 

Lore

Infinite Gravity
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
14,135
Location
Formerly 'Werekill' and 'NeoTermina'
Adding on to 983 (clicked reply by accident, on ipod)

And school? Where has this come in to play? All you've done, for the most part, is cite computer issues or other crap.

And I refuse to believe that saving the post in a word processing program is beyond you. If you aren't already, do it.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
I'm not trying to fake content. I realize I haven't given any reads or stances on players in any credible way other than a first impressions list. I am trying to get a post together.

I said I could easily say some crap about school being hectic if I wanted to make excuses. I'm not, though.

I think I've learned now that a word processing document would be best. I'll do this from now on on posts that I plan to leave and come back to later.

And now, I won't be able to respond to anything for a bit. I'm going through the thread how I should have the first time. I'm going to read the thread without skimming over things and I'll actually think past the face value of posts this time.
 

Panta

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 5, 2011
Messages
25
Huzzah. I have been reunited with Internet. <3

Ok. Reading the last 8~ pages, just gonna let everyone know that I am super busy this weekend with college essays and the like.

Also, my Kantrip is bleh. His play looks similar to that of the Newbie I had with him, but I don't know if he was scum or not in that game and I don't like relying on meta anyway.

Probably going to reread his posts specifically.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
5,164
Just stopping in to say that I've been busier than I expected to be lately and that I don't really have time to read everything and get into the meat of any of the posts tonight, and I'm going to be busy tomorrow until late afternoon. So don't expect another post from me until after then. But I have skimmed some stuff and I'll say that I will reevaluate where Xastrn, John and others stand for me when I get the chance. Really, a mental break from this game for another day might be the best thing for my reads. It'll stunt the tunneling that I usually find myself doing.

Also, I'm excited for Frio to finally be done with whatever he said was keeping him from giving this game attention (he said he'd be done by friday, I believe). I expect stuff worth reading from him soon, and so should everyone else.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
Huzzah. I have been reunited with Internet. <3

Ok. Reading the last 8~ pages, just gonna let everyone know that I am super busy this weekend with college essays and the like.

Also, my Kantrip is bleh. His play looks similar to that of the Newbie I had with him, but I don't know if he was scum or not in that game and I don't like relying on meta anyway.

Probably going to reread his posts specifically.
That game ended and I got NK'd N2. I was a vanilla townie.

I think we butted heads in that game at the end of D1. I apologize, but I think I have some meta on you now. I don't know why you thought so passionately that I was scum.

Also,


I finished a full and detailed read up until when I came into the game, and wrote down a ****-ton of notes on like 14 pieces of paper. I'm going to directly type them up and post them now. Huge post incoming.
 

X1-12

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
2,022
Location
Southampton, UK
Votecount 8 - [8/15] - Deadline 11th October

Raziek [0]
T-Block [0]
Overswarm [0]
Xastrn [6] - J, dabuz, Nabe, Circus, Kantrip, Raziek
Solid [1] - OS
Panta [0]
Red Ryu [1] - Xastrn
dabuz [1] - MOD
Nabe [1] - Werekill
Circus [1] - Frio
Werekill [1] - RR
John2k4 [0]
Kantrip [2] - Panta, Solid
J [0]
Frio [1] - MOD

Not Voting [2] - John2k4, T-Block
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
Explain how and where with posts to back this up please.
I need you to answer this as well. This is a question that was directed at to how in the world OS was your strongest town-read. Do this please.

I don't think I've said I have no clue why. Link me saying it if I'm remembering incorrectly. I know I've said there's no good case on me, despite several votes. But that's different.


Correction: there are VOTES on me. There has been no case made against me. that's why I'm not bothered by this. Someone would have to work hard to make a case against me. Their best case will be "you don't like ace attorney gifs. WHO DOESN'T LIKE ACE ATTORNEY GIFS?!?"
Here is your post that indicates you have no clue why people have been on you because this suspicion from some people had started before this RR dilemma. You say they best case against you is because of the AA gifs which is just a somewhat chilidish point as to why someone would suspect you and it's also ignorant to the fact of what people have already been posting things against you. You seriously need to read what people are posting.

Raziek, what's better to address right now? I'd rather J satisfy what he needs to wrt me so he can move on, rather than you changing the subject like that.

I'd ask OS to clarify his own SOLID read because he wants to lynch SOLID toDay.

I no longer do. My catch-up post was a heaping pile of crap. If I happen to find what I was thinking when I wrote that post, maybe it will come back to me.

Unvote

Vote: Xastrn.
@Mod: Your vote-count needs this little fix-up. Thanks! ^^

But let's get back the original point at hand. You give me names, where's your support? You just throw out all the facts that they are weak hoppers. Yet dabuz/Circus have both been combating you with cases for a while which seems to be more than wagon-hoppers. Explain why those three(somewhat four =P) names are middle-wagons.

Dastrn said:
j, i don't understand your last question with the hand slam gif. can you rephrase it for me?
Sure thing.

You say at the time of that post that you think RR is town by asking people if they will raise their hand to agree to the notion that RR is town. Yet lately, you have been calling him your place to put your vote for exactly what he has done in the past, how do you explain the contradiction to how what he did then and what he has done now equates to a vote. It seems contradictory to you having quite a strong town read on him.

=======



Enough games Dastrn, this has gone on long enough. This is your last chance to change my mind about your slot for toDay and it will depend on whether my vote stays or whether it changes. Thing is what you need to do to acquire this is extensive. You have a day or two to complete this but a lynch needs to be reached by the 11th.

- You need to ably defend yourself against all the heat you have taken with a final defense post
- You need to give a legitamate scum-pick with supported reasoning, not this "it's D1" garbage.
- You need to back-up what you have said with some good evidence.
- You also have to respond to everything in this post or any other questions that people have poised to you.

Complete this challenge, and you may keep living possibly.

Fail....well you know the outcome of that. ;P
 

Xastrn

Dastrn|Xatres
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
239
Location
Dastrn and Xatres Hydra
There are several miscommunications here that shed some significant light on this. I'll try to clarify, and perhaps this will make some things make way more sense for you.

I need you to answer this as well. This is a question that was directed at to how in the world OS was your strongest town-read. Do this please.
I'm going to disappoint you if you expect me to link many OS posts that prove he's town. I can't prove it. It's just a strong hunch based on knowing each other pretty well.
We spent a few years in the brawl back room together, playing tournaments together, and we've kept up somewhat consistently since then. I just know him well, and I've argued alongside and against him dozens of times, and all of that gives me confidence that I can read him rather well. I rely on cold-reading people professionally (working with juvenile delinquents) so I have rather well-refined skills in this regard, particularly when I know people.
That's the entire basis of my read on OS. Sure, it's because of his posts, but nothing I can link you will look "strong" to anyone but me, so I think it would be counter productive in THIS case to try to demonstrate it with posts.

I'm aware that you and some other people will not be satisfied by that. I'm similarly not satisfied with other people's assessments of what they see. There are things I would call asinine that other would accept as a good argument, and vice versa.




Here is your post that indicates you have no clue why people have been on you because this suspicion from some people had started before this RR dilemma. You say they best case against you is because of the AA gifs which is just a somewhat chilidish point as to why someone would suspect you and it's also ignorant to the fact of what people have already been posting things against you. You seriously need to read what people are posting.
here's one big miscommunication. I didn't intend to say I had no idea why people didn't like me. I actually said "there has been no case made against me" not "I don't know why people don't like me." There's a big difference. I'm aware that my playstyle is outside of the norm for this room. I don't primarily play in this room, so that's to be expected. Raziek and I already butted heads once toDay, and he and I both experienced that dissonance that we both felt boiled down to playstyle and philosophical differences that are null tells.


Your reasonings for your votes this game are completely mechanical scum-hunting though. It's coming across as fake just so you can blend in with town and get away with the fact that it's just the way you feel/play. Circus has explained that people do perceive your case as weak and you haven't pushed anyone hard this game at all besides RR to which you are backing out of now.

Mechanical WORKS on day one. I'm glad other players try gambits and tricks, and I encourage that. You might remember I even played along with RR's gambit to see who else was biting. I also voted spells(i think it was him) for posting 3 ??? in several posts. Just screwing around a bit to get people reacting. But for the most part, I'm a rather mechanical player. It comes with being a math whiz, computer programmer, and a hyper analytical mind. I can appreciate the tricksies and double-speak and whatnot, but it's just not me.
If you expect me to be the guy that provides a big twist in the middle of the game where I reveal my secrets or reveal how I bread-crumbed info or whatever, you'll be disappointed. Town is already at a disadvantage in information. I try to play as transparently as possible to make up for this disadvantage. I need as many people as possible to know what to expect from me so they can make wise decisions with what I'm putting out there. There should be no guesswork for town in terms of what to expect from me. Guesswork muddies things up, and that's pro-scum, not pro-town.


Our buddying is mutual and has at least a bit of a trail as to why we came to those conclusions, whereas yours is more blantant and just seemingly random because even OS himself says he doesn't expect how anyone can have a better read than null on his slot because that's all he has done, null posts.
I've explained why it's not random. OS and I know each other. I trust my ability to read him well. I was hoping that he'd interact with me frequently so that I could get a feel for him. I'm sad that he's largely ignored me. not personally, but from a game perspective, as it shows a wariness to be "known" if that makes sense. The longer he's ignored me, the less I've felt that strong tow-read, but I'm still far from being ok with his lynch any time soon. If he's more active day 2, (and he'll HAVE to be to expect to stay alive, as it seems this group will keep him active or vote him) he'll give me a lot to work with.
The entire wagon besides myself are weak middle-wagon hoppers?
To an extent, yes. But this is day 1, so who knows? a flip or two will make all of that more meaningful. if they hop in mid lynch, and i flip scum, then it doesn't look NEARLY as bad, for example.

What do you think of Kantrip's vote on your wagon then?
he seems like a weak player to me, so I don't expect his late vote to be very well-thought out. His entire post history is full of "i unno...guess I should look deeper, huh?" posts, so he's on my "can die" list for sure. there are a lot more useful players in this game doing FAR more to contribute to scum-hunting.


You say at the time of that post that you think RR is town by asking people if they will raise their hand to agree to the notion that RR is town. Yet lately, you have been calling him your place to put your vote for exactly what he has done in the past, how do you explain the contradiction to how what he did then and what he has done now equates to a vote. It seems contradictory to you having quite a strong town read on him.
Major miscommunication here. I never was trying to communicate that I thought he was town. I was trying to see if ANYONE in the game was getting a town read on RR, because I didn't expect anyone to say they did. I believe I was correct. I don't remember anyone raising their hands. (correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.)

I can see how this would have thrown up major caution flags (YELLOW not RED) for anyone who misunderstood what I meant by that post.

- You need to ably defend yourself against all the heat you have taken with a final defense post
I'd say I've been doing way too much defending recently, and I'd like to make a case against some one else. I've been hesitating to post my case against him for a while, out of fear that it would be dismissed too quickly as me just trying to remove heat from myself. I'm confident in my ability to cool the heat on me by simply posting what's true about what I'm thinking and letting the cards fall.
- You need to give a legitamate scum-pick with supported reasoning, not this "it's D1" garbage.
- You need to back-up what you have said with some good evidence.
I'll be re-reading to put together my case in a minute. I already have a scum read on this player, but I haven't made a serious case against them yet. (it's not werekill.)

I'll post this case by no later than tonight. Depending how late the fights go, it might be more or less long. I'm going out at 8pm for the fights, and I have work to do between now and then, so i might not get all my research done in time to make a HUGE post.

- You also have to respond to everything in this post or any other questions that people have poised to you.
Let me know if I've missed anything. I think I deleted one paragraph since it was addressed more specifically below or above, but if I missed an important question in there, let me know and I'll address it as best as I can by tonight.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
Unvote

Vote: Werekill

Yep. I have reasons now.
I don't like the fact that John felt the need to say he has reasons now. Especially considering he didn't even share these reasons. This also implied he didn't have reasons before.

I thought this was fake or a lyncher type of thing but I guess not. O_o

Vote: Werekill Nice use though. :)
Panta jumps on the WK wagon, apparently believing it. I'd like to know what made him think this was no longer fake.

What? I realize that the first page was pre-role banter, that is why I said 2 pages. And no I am not preplanning inactivity. What the hell made you come to that conclusion? >_>

I usually do get left behind and if you look at all of my mafia games it is true because I don't have a lot of time to commit. Newbie 14 and 13 as well as PokeMafia and Final Fantasy.

No. You are wrong about me being scum, but probably right about Spells being scum.
"I am not scum, but spellcasters probably is." Bleck. Throwing the blame on the other player who is under suspicion? I don't like this.

What the ****. what was phony about my damn post? >_>



I kinda have to agree with this. There is no reason Spells should not be voting Werekill when Ryu claimed a guilty on him.

Fos: Spellcasters




If there is anything that is phony it is this.

Overswarm, why are you making fun of me? :c


I don't like this post at all. Panta, you had JUST voted for WK saying "oh I thought it was fake before, I guess not." Now it's scummy to not be voting for WK? :glare:

RO mafia in which I replaced in and Dabuz I had a town read pretty heavily. Which person in this list do you feel the most confident in reading Circus?



The bolded part in this quote is very weird because I can't tell if it's a joke or not. It seems serious and I don't like it.





Uhm, I'd have to say around 40-50 games in total.



Werekill is at L-2 with 6 votes if I counted correctly.

Side-note: What in the world is up with some people not playing MM or OoT for that matter? How upsetting! My childhood would be nothing without them.

First impressions so far are pretty odd. One person I find myself looking at with a different expression is OS because I have never seen him like this before. He is just fluff-posting and I haven't even seen a real post from him except that little segment directed at Spell but even then nothing much came afterwards.

The gambit is kind of reminiscent especially since I joined this game to play with a certain hydra and that gambit was there/started my first game ever.

@People not on the WK wagon: What do you think of it? If you aren't on it, who do you have in mind of looking into?

@Solid: Since you were worried about voting WK, would you have him at L-1? Do you trust that I gave you the right number because he could actually be at L-1 instead of L-2 and still vote him? ;)

Panta's last post was odd but I am learning from reading about Panta and pushing him as a ML as scum (sorry about that before duder. ^^") that his style is just inherently scummy but I don't like his last post off pure surface value.

Panta, can you explain what about Spell is scummy in your own words?

Speaking of Spell, I can't tell if he is more dummy or more scummy at this point because he is just going back on what he is saying and just mixing somethings up. Spell, why were you against RR and then just flipped because "others are better than you it seems."? It seems you are malleable to others whims. Who is the scummiest besides where your vote resides at the moment?

OS, can I get who is looking like scum from you?

I think that's it for now. But I'm caught up. ^^
I like this post. J's opening thoughts mirror what I've seen in this read so far. #108 asks the same question I would have (not that that means much).

Also I declare myself king.



If town does not agree on a lynch, Panta will be our "fallback lynch". If anyone disagrees, they need to come up with a better fallback lynch within 24 hours. There will be no distractions as such after 24 hours; now is your chance.



This is advantageous to scum in that if they know that the person we have as our fallback lynch is town, they can deliberately go for a no lynch situation. This will help them get the guaranteed lynch.

This is advantageous to town in that we can decidedly know that, because only scum would know the alignment of someone unless they were investigated or cleared, so anyone going deliberately towards a no lynch situation under the guise of "I don't really like this lynch, let's go after the other guy instead" will be put under heavy scrutiny. Meaning, coasting in this game will be incredibly scummy because not acting or participating is a direct actions towards the lynch of our fallback lynch. For today, that's Panta. For similar reasons, those that do the opposite and rally against killing the fallback lynch are just as scummy, especially if that fallback lynch eventually flips as mafia. This gives scum a game they have to play; because we have a fallback lynch that may or may not be scum, in certain situations they'll be forced to actually "play" or otherwise leave a visible trail. But playing also leaves a visible trail.

Na mean?

I picked Panta as our fallback lynch because he has already discussed his disdain at the thread growing a whopping 3 pages (whoopdy doo) and discussed his previous inability to keep up with mafia games. Regardless of whether or not this is planned or simply the truth, both are just as bad to town and this leaves him as a viable backup lynch.

Anyone who disagrees with this policy will receive my constant scrutiny in a very, very, very annoying fashion. I will be consistent. If you do not agree with a Panta as the fallback lynch, post your own with your ideas, and a vague consensus will allow a switch from Panta to someone else.

I will not be the "king" who chooses the fallback lynch for tomorrow. I nominate J to be the "king" for tomorrow, and he can tell us who our fallback lynch is at the end of the day. It can be anyone in the game. J must post his reasoning of his fallback lynch as well.

Should we get near deadline without a viable lynch, everyone should switch their vote to Panta the moment they log in.



RVS is now officially over.



Other than a discussion about who should be the fallback lynch, if you disagree with my choice of Panta, then Red Ryu needs to discuss his claim more fully or Were needs to go against Red Ryu. We can't move forward until this is complete.
I was neutral to the whole kingmaker things, but I didn't like how much it could mess town up if scum got elected. Fallback lynches are fine, but giving the responsibility to one person? Meh. Also didn't like how OS said how scum could take advantage of the set-up. What that does is allows OS to look townie later should questions arise, because he "wasn't afraid to list out everything about the idea. Why would scum purposely share their own pla like that?"

Also, on the possibility that scum didn't have the common sense to figure out how the system helped them, OS just handed them the info and said "here, I'm trying to implement a cool lych strategy and here's how you can break it, scum." I don't think town OS would hand scum advice like that.

Also, the fact that OS pretty much threatens any opposition to the idea irks me. If you don't agree with him you better have a damn good reason, or you'll be under "costant scrutiny" and be seen as scummy for not having a good enough reason. OS is either really, really arrogant or is manipulating town. Possibly both. The fact that he chose J as toMorrow's king gives J town points, regardless of OS's alignment. This is because if OS if town, he would elect a player he thinks is town. If OS is scum, he wouldn't put his scummate in danger by electing them, and would instead also elect someone who looks town.

[yt]svlohGzbPn4[/yt]

Aka no

J: I got some things from this like how people reacted to me in RvS, doing laundry will brb and explain.
Hey it's RR's first post that's not some crap trying to push his gambit further! It's also RR's first video/gif/piccture fluff post. Says he got reads from people's reactions to his gambit and will share them later.

When's later? I want to know his findings.

Whoa man that was a long 8 pages to read through. I've only played 5-10 forum mafias before but I've played a lot in real life. So far I'm thinking Panta and spellcasters are scum, so for now VOTE: Panta
Frio's first post comes off as new-town to me. From my experiennce, new-scum would post reasoning for their vote and try to make it look well-informed, which Frio did not. Newb-scum is new and easy to read, but they wouldn't make their posts blatantly scummy on purpose. This is shaky reasoning though, so Frio stays null for now.

Waitwaitwait. Ryu wasn't bull****ting the daycop claim? Well that's...not at all what I was expecting.

Ryu, nameclaim please.

Werekill, get the hell in here.

Errbody stop voting for Werekill until we get a votecount. We're not hammering anyone yet, regardless of what anyone claims to "know" right now.

In the meantime, catching up.

Frio, IGMEOY so hard.
Do not like this post. Ask for RR nameclaim, says he's not even caught up (WHY would you push things like this if you're not even up-to-date?)

"Frio IGMEOY so hard."

WHY?


He did the day claim wrong. Werekill was under no pressure; to claim that early and not actually be the day cop means that werekill can just say "nope, not mafia" and then we get a coin flip situation that RRyu backs down from. If RR wanted to fakeclaim daycop, he should have waited until the deadline was later to force a claim. I'm totally not against tricking a townie to claim, btw; just not this early when you can't choose who you want to hit with a realistic idea as to why.


In other news, I'm the actual day cop and got a town result on you, Circus. Glad we've cleared that up.
OS spews nonsense about being the ACTUAL day cop. "Got a town result on Circus."
Pfft, yeah right.
Cop would now claim on an inno like that. I wouldn't have a problem with this fooling around, except that OS and Nabe keep going with it much later in the game.

I've played something like 15 games. All of them on SWF.

unvote
vote: Panta



Dislike. Do you have a stance on Panta then? You say you don't like his last post - do you think it's townPanta being inherently scummy again, or is there something to suggest that it's different?



Your reasoning makes no sense. If Panta is town, then anyone who distracts town from other lynches in an attempt to go to the fallback lynch is scummy. If Panta is scum, then anyone who argues against lynching Panta is scummy. Cool. Inactives have always been pressured, and this system does nothing more to force them into action. Fake contributors not taking stances were heavily pressured even without a fallback lynch. So, how does this force scum to play? More specifically, what is it about an organized fallback lynch that forces scum to play, or leave trails, more than usual?

You'll still have to sell me on this fallback lynch structure, because here's what I see: a third of the playerlist or more is newbs, and you've got a reputation as a strong player. You could probably hold quite a bit of influence in town. If town goes along with this and takes your reasoning for truth, what happens?
  • Those who oppose the current wagon are labelled as scummy
  • Those who oppose the fallback lynch are labelled as scummy

Moreover, you want the fallback lynch to be decided by one person, rather than collectively. As you said, town does not know another player's alignment. Following this system, newer players especially will not oppose a current choice for fear that he will flip town, as probability would suggest, casting suspicion on them for allowing town to go to a fallback mislynch. They will not oppose a fallback lynch for fear that the fallback will flip scum, as the behaviour that lands them in the fallback lynch position in the first place would suggest, casting suspicion on them for opposing a scum lynch. The chosen "king" chooses a fallback lynch. All it takes is one strong scum player making a case on a weaker town player - it won't be hard, judging from what we've seen in this game already - and all of a sudden we have to put ourselves under suspicion just to broaden the lynch pool to more than two choices? You are nullifying town's advantage of numbers and creating an environment in which scum can easily manipulate town. What are you trying to pull?

And then you go and say anyone who disagrees with your policy will receive your scrutiny. It's intimidation that will be effective on a major chunk of the playerlist. Bring on the scrutiny, I guess.

Regardless, it just so happens I'm completely fine with Panta dying toDay at the moment, and not just as a fallback lynch. 105 makes me nauseous.



8 pages isn't that much... you can probably expect a lot of reading for this game.

You can do it though, Frio! I believe in you :bluejump:

Can I get your reasoning for thinking Panta and spellcasters being scum? If we were to lynch Panta, would a scum flip make you believe more or less strongly in spellcasters being scum? What would a town flip make you think?
I liked this post. It addresses the same problems with OS's idea that I found. T-Block's reasoning is well-established.

Wow. I have a lot to say, and I've been holding my tongue because I wanted to see the results of the whole werekill daycopped thing, but RR ruined it in several ways.

1. Don't claim day-cop that early. You wouldn't have copped that early in the day. Fakeclaim N0 cop. That was it's a one shot ability, and no one will expect anything from you day 2. Also, it explains why you used it so early. A real day cop would wait for half of D1 to be over so they had an educated guess on who might be scummy.

2. Don't come clean before werekill gets a chance to show up and go "wait nononono i'm not scum" so we can all read him and see if he's being genuine. you backed off way too early. You even asked for someone to put him at L-1 and then backed off before it happened, as if you were afraid of him accidentally being lynched too fast.

My immediate assumption when you claimed day cop was that it was bogus, but I knew I couldn't post anything to the contrary yet, because I wanted to see who was willing to go along with it, and with what amount of gusto. I assumed no strong, well-established players would get on the bandwagon if they were town, which gives me good reads on circus, OS, and J. I assumed noob-scum would be on the wagon, which gives me bad reads on spell, nabe, john, panta and solid. Considering I already had bad reads on spell, and panta, this is making them both look worse and worse in my book.

RR, you were looking town for your fakeclaim until you reversed it. It makes me think you know something the rest of us don't. You may have read Oddworld and remembered Swiss' similar claim. he claimed n0 cop with a guilty on me, and it didn't work, and my hydra's play in that game won the game for town. We even had scum claim a guilty cop read on us and we survived 2 more days to lynch scum back to back for the win in that game. I'm guessing you read that game and wanted to try something similar? Swiss was scum in that game too, if I remember correctly.

IGMEOY.

OS, I like your king idea. I HATE inactivity in mafia games. That's the main reason I joined this one. I've played primarily broom games in the last year, and they are notoriously inactive games. We can get to day 3 and still not have lynched all the inactives. Scum tends to win more games than they should back there. It's boring. I joined in D-Games to get back into a normal-paced mafia game. Your idea pisses on the inactives. And if there's one thing I like doing, it's urinating on anything that's standing still without making a sound.

Panta is a good choice as a backup lynch because he's on many of our scum lists already. I also appreciate that you aren't saying "i'm king for life. i call all the shots" but passing it to another strong player for day 2. Might I suggest that each king nominates the next, so that you have no further control over the process as it runs it's course?

T-Block, while I appreciate what you're going for with your assessment of the "king" mechanic that OS is proposing, I'm sure you can agree that it will keep scum from coasting, right? It's not set in stone. Even OS wouldn't be opposed to switching the vote to a better candidate before falling back if one arose. The point isn't "it's current lynch candidate or fallback, with no other options". It's more of a "we won't be no lynching in this game" so we have a pre-established fall-back if ALL other lynch candidates fall through and it's getting late in the Day.
Xastrn's is not. Like, who whoa whoaa, let's hold on a second.

Here's a brief summary:

Xastrn thinks:

Circus, OS, and J are town for NOT being on the gambit wagon.

spell, Nabe, John, Panta, and SOLID are scum for being on the gambit wagon.

I'm sorry but this is bull. What about newbtown? Well-established scum? Assuming intent of joining the wagon based on PLAY EXPERIENCE is just WIFOM and stupid. What a great way for Xastrn to fake having reads: Derive all of them by

-On the wagon = scum
-Off the wagon = town

I'm sure you can see for yourself why this is bad.

Also, he thinks RR is scum for "reversing his gambit". Why?

Because of what happened in another game, with a different player.

:glare:

The fact that Xastrn likes the kingmaker idea because he hates inactivity... what a bad reason to agree with a set-up that obviously makes scum's job easier. He also defends the idea from T-Block's valid points with some not-so-valid points. The whole things just sits very badly with me.

My thoughts on it are that I think OS may have set up the idea to get reads. Considering he didn't bring it up or try to push it again later indicates to me that he may have only suggested it to see how people responded to it, and he got reads from it too.

People assume Werekill was the person I was trying to read, though I should have kept going to get that read as well. Also I don't know Oddworld, I never read that game.

Now for this I got reads and some direct where to look with the few posts made this game.
Not sure what RR didn't allow WK to respond, considering he realized he should have. I'd also like to see these "reads and direct where to look" RR got from the gambit.

Shows that he does not believe Ryu is telling the truth because Werekill is not Spell's scumbuddy and therefore Spell knows Ryu isn't the truth.



Daytalk obviously influenced this because Spell is sticking out like a sore thumb not believing a daycop result.



mhmm. No, you didn't believe it because Were isn't one of your scumbuddies and then your actual scumbuddies nagged you for being so obvious.




Only after the fact. People started to get suspicious and your scumbuddies quickly shuffled you into the backroom so you wouldn't make another scene that was as bad as your first one.

Unvote:
vote: Spellcasters
Panta has really reachy and shaky reasoning for his spell scum read. That and he's presenting the case WAY after he FoS'd spell and threw suspicion onto him and was asked why.

"shows that he does not believe Ryu is telling the truth because Werekill is not spell'cs scumbuddy and therefore spells knows Ryu isn't the truth."

http://********/images/idiot-gaston/what-is-this-i-dont-even.jpg

So... Panta thinks spellcaster changes his mind and hopped on the wagon from daytalk with his scumbuddy. First off, this is bad reasoning and WIFOM-y to being with. So far, Panta's only reason is "you changed your mind. Obviously your scummates told you to because you made a scene."

wtf Panta, as you may have noticed, changing his vote caused spell to make more of a scene than he did originally. His scummates would NOT tell him to do that. The reason spell's play contiued to look really terrible is because he didn't HAVE any scummates to set him straight.

Stuff like this is why people get scumreads on you D1, Panta: you push reachy WIFOM cases and play very opportunistic when there's any pressure on you.

Ambivalent about Overswarm, especially with this post. He already stated that RVS was Over with his kingmaker situation, yet he goes and says he is the daycop with an innocent on Circus?

He states, in his post addressing my vote on him, that he is unable to control the minds of 15 other people to make them follow him, but that actually does seem like a possibility at the moment. The whole post was condescending towards me because of simple RVS joke that apparently NONE of you got because I am now a scumread for all of you. :glare:

I am not going to comment on that actual kingmaker situation since I don't comprehend it completely, but I will say something about the "guranteed back up lynch".

That has been my fate in almost all of my games. Literally. Everyone has a "scum" read on me throughout the first day and then when push comes to shove the scum and town gum everything up and because they have no other "viable" options they lynch me. Anyone opposing my lynch is automatically suspicious and likely scum? Does that make me scum for not wanting my own lynch? You are just playing into the hands of the scum, Overswarm. They can create confusion and indecisiveness in the town and force town to go with their guranteed back up lynch with no risk to them because I am town.

I don't like you trying to direct the town and your daycop post was illthought out if you are the actual daycop. There is one scenario I can think of for you to say that and it gives you town points in my book, but I am having a hard time deciding whether or not that was your actual intent given your other posts.
I do, however, like what you said wrt OS and his fallback idea. I think your play has been the same scummy-looking TownPanta that you get lynched for in D1 all the time. Just try not to push bad cases just because pressure is on you. Wait until you have reads worth pursuing.

Spellcasters was here and left, I was hoping he had something to say on the subject.

Anyway, someone who's not Panta tell me if he's sincere about suspecting Spellcasters.

J, hurry up and get in here before your response to me would become moot. :V
I think yes. From what I've observed, Panta doesn't like pressure on him, so he pushes bad cases in hopes it will stop. What happens is that he gets called out on it, comes under even more scrutiny, and looks even more scummy from his defense. Then he gets lynched and flips town.

I don't like this post at all. It seems like scum feeling pressure and trying to throw it onto the next most scummy looking player. Several of us that don't like Panta ALSO don't like spellcasters so he's jumping on spell to try to get things to flow in that direction instead.

Then there's the AtE where he says "poor me, everyone piles up on me every game" to get people to feel bad for him, and then he gets super defensive and tries to finger T-Block for disliking him and OS's idea at the same time. (as if that would be impossible.)

Panta, T-Block doesn't like you because you are scummy. that doesn't mean he has to support OS's plan too, just because it happens to be pointing at you right now. He's allowed to disagree with the theory behind the plan while at the same time supporting it's current target as his own.

@Solid: what do you think of RedRyu's gambit? What's your read on RR right now?
@Nabe: same question.

@ everyone: is RR known for ballsy plays Day1? I don't remember ever playing with him before, and don't have a meta on him whatsoever. Someone feed me a little meta on RR.
This post seemed opportunistic to me with how he reacted to Panta's bad case on spell so fast. He thinks it's scum pushing the other scummy looking player.

Why do you think it's Scum pushing Town and not Town pushing Town?

You people are too paranoid for your own good.

Where was it stated that people don't like me because I also suspect Spell? Who I have suspected since he failed miserably with regards to Ryu's gambit?

Of course I am going to be ****ing defensive when the entire ****ing town, literally not even 150 pages into the game, has voiced their opinions that I am scum with reasons such as "this feels fake, forced, defensive" with equates to nothing but gut. It is bull.
Yeah, this looks like D1 townPanta to me.

Panta, I implore you to realize that scum is likely to pounce on a townie who makes scumslips. Use your D1 play for reads and connections and you can pin opportunistic scum for jumping on your back.

I have a suspicion that Xastrn is one of them.

I've forgotten how much I love having Dastrn and T-block in games. Seriously. I love you both. You both use inductive reasoning on a categorical terms rather than absolute terms, and use it to just "guide" you instead of determining your action.

I just discovered I died in my other game, so I guess I can stop being so goofy here. Lame.
So, OS loves both Dastrn and T-Block? Were we reading the same posts? The way these two applied their reasoning seemed like polar opposites to me.

Wow, get off Overswarm's **** please.

No, I don't see how it stops scum from coasting. It stops scum from fake contributing, which was already heavily scrutinized without this plan. His proposed plan for finding scum relies on scum taking an action - either swaying town from a lynch, or opposing the fallback lynch. How do we deal with inactives? I guess that falls under moving towards the fallback lynch? Are we really going to look at inactives once this plan is in place and say "you're inactive, so you must be trying to force town into going to the fallback lynch" rather than "you're inactive, so you could be scum trying to avoid making connections"? It just doesn't make sense to me.

I hate inactives as well, and I understand that No Lynching is not useful. However, we can deal with that without instituting a system that allows for so much manipulation, especially with so many newer players around.
This is T-Block's good inductive reasoning. I agree with what OS said about him.

Thanks for a little meta on T-Block. Give me more, I literally had never heard of him until this game.

OS, hold hands?
This is how Xastrn responds.

...

Someone likes your play, QUICK BUDDY THEM!

:glare:

Yeah, Red Ryu does this fairly often. He loves claiming Daycop or Dayvig on Day 1 just for reactions.

I'm a little late due to weekend activities, but the gambit was kinda obvious guys.

Spellcasters pretty obviously new at the game, but no indication of alignment IMO.

Agree that Panta's already created himself a bit of a backdoor. Dislike.

Personal dislike OS's plan. Methods of play where scum can manipulate Town's course of action without having to expose themselves.... I don't like.

On top of that, scrambling for a lynch is not always bad. See MMX Day 1 for a clear example. Circus got caught as scum with his pants down.

Setting up a "fallback lynch" in this sort of fashion is almost never going to actually benefit us. If scum gets it, they just pick a Townie and we're automatically at a disadvantage. IF a Townie gets it, they still have to pick scum.
I agree with Raziek's opinion on the fallback idea.

I remember. *grumble* And pick the two biggests new posts to compare and contrast? ;P But sure because I found something in T-B's that pretty *ahem*.



I did have a stance on Panta within that post and it said I was confused by his slot due to my past experiences with him since I've been in every game he has been in on DGames in some way besides the newest newbie game where he was also lynched D1.

You're being a bit hypocritical with your next question because of your next line. You say you are alright with Panta dying and you make sure to mark it as him dying in general. Yet you say his 105 is nauseous but don't tell us why it is or how it is scummy. But you still try and call me out on "not explaining" well enough on the very same matter.

Can you clear this up? Thanks.

Back to the Compare/Contrast.

Okay well with TB's his attack is a bit out of character for him yet I kindof like it (minus the hypocrisy directed at me). He is attacking OS, of all people, who is knows has a rep for being a really big powerful player which is something I don't think scumTB would do because it's kind of like a suicidal attempt to do as such. Shows town-incentive if ya get what I mean. =P

A thing I like about what he is doing is that he is trying to beat down OS with logic and the fact that he isn't just calling him scum for what he is doing or anything makes me like it more.

Dastrn's post is different from TB's in how it's written up. It's very buddy buddy when it comes to OS and iirc Dastrn also asked for OS's hand when the game started but I'd have to go double check that. Where TB attacks OS, Dastrn buddies. On a comparison note, they both have a similar problem in explaining their reads but Dastrn explains better for some yet has a bigger problem.

TB didn't explain his read on Panta and Dastrn threw out a looooot of reads on quite a lot of people but doesn't explain how they individually landed in those categories. He says it's because it's the way they reacted to RR's gambit but my big problem with that is "Why?". He goes into more reason explaining his IGMEOU then his scum-reads.

Dastrn, I would like to know how you came to those individual bad reads on all those people you named. Also would the fact of knowing that Nabe/Solid are not n00bs change your opinon on how they reacted? If you want bonus points, I'd like to know how you came to find Myself/Circus town by the way we reacted. ^^ I get why for OS but it seems a bit too buddy-buddy for me.

So back to Nabe, the comparison/contrast is this if that's what you wanted. What was it that you wanted me to hurry for though?



RR is actually not known for this type of play to be all honest. o_O It's something I'm not used to seeing but I am still curious about what he found but he said he'll get that later. So far it's null for me.
I really liked this post. The compare and contrast was reasonable and well-done.

Thus far, I have made all of our posts. (I'm Dastrn). Xatres works weekends and I work weekdays, so I think there's a strong chance that he'll be inactive on weekends while I'll be more active on weekends. I'll still post throughout the week, but I won't have as much free time for analysis and rereads, but then xatres will be off work all week and will have more time.

he's also got a vacation coming up later this week, so he might be v/la for much of Day1.

t-block, I'm not focused on meta. I would, however, feel foolish to ignore it. Not knowing 2/3rds of the players in this game puts me at a knowledge disadvantage. I'm already at a disadvantage on information because of the whole uninformed majority aspect of being town.
furthermore, I like to hear people make posts and give information. I'm tend to read people very well, but they need to be expressing their opinions frequently for me to get to know what to expect from them. half of my purpose is to get info on you, since you seem like a pretty strong player. the other half is to get info on the rest of the players. I want to see who will volunteer info, who will withhold what they know, and see what people say and how they say it.

I tend to always have one super confident read per game that is spot on no matter who believes me. It's because of little questions like that that feed me style info on people.
Wow, I'm starting to see a trend of NOT liking Xastrn's posts.

Especially bolded. I believe other people addressed this.



I gotta say, I joined this game purely for the fact of playing a game with someone who saved me and helped me learn my first games as both town and scum ironically back to back. Yet, I don't like you at the moment Dastrn.

Unvote
Vote: Xastrn


Don't ignore me please. ^^ I'd love answers to my questions instead of you CYA. I really dislike your last question btw because it's really pointless and the first line of you expressing "it's not a loaded question." is odd. You're being really cautious this game and too buddying for my tastes. Let's also bring up you have yet to explain your reads and haven't brought your own neck out yet.
Similarly, I see a trend of liking J's posts.

I should probably use gifs then that remind you of the past.



Okay so you just gave me a Spell case just like Panta has yet no vote to back it up, why? However, half of your reasoning against Spell is pure WIFOM at it's finest. It's not even substantiated well at all. Wait, just double checked, your entire reasoning is WIFOM. The reason that he is easier to read is easily beaten down. Then there is the theory of how scum should act systematically which is yet again WIFOM.

The red bit sets off alarms for me because you are creating a back-door for yourself in this Spell scum-push. You say that regardless of flip, he is bad for town and makes a good lynch. So regardless of what he flips, you can just say it was for the best of the town regardless.

Your first paragraph is just a simple regurgitation on what D1 is and it's kind of self-explanatory.

And back to my main point, you spent a lot of time coming up with that response to me which comes off over-defensive by the nature of it and doesn't answer the questioned I poised to you which is my real concern is that you aren't explaining things well. You say you have time and I would love to see your reasoning behind a lot of those reads. =D
I like that post, J.
I agree, but I don't think Raz needed to say this and nothing else. Is this buddying?

Why would we lynch Spell if we were looking for reads? He's given us essentially no connections beyond RVS.

I'm not seeing why he's scummy and why it isn't just bad play, Xastrn. Yeah, I agree I wouldn't want him in MyLo. Yeah, I agree he's anti-Town either way.

But do I think he's scummy? Not particulary, and if your push has little actual scum-substance, it doesn't sit right to me, when this game has just begun.
This post is true. The points are kind of obvious, though, and it doesn't move Raz from null yet. I just haven't gotten good vibes from him so far.

Ok.... now I'm starting to feel the spell lynch.

Spell, why did you vote Panta just now?
Why? What changed your mind this quickly? Is one post where spell comes in and plays EXACTLY the same as he has been enough to change your mind? You said there are no connections from the lynch and therefore it's a bad one. This is STILL true, so why you would suddenly be on board with the spell lynch is so scummy.

You realize it may be a more viable lynch than you thought? Did your scumbuddy tell you to go on board with it?

oh sorry forgot to post a gif.

Hypocrite. ;)

I don't remember reading about an experience requirement when going through the signup thread...might have just been a suggested "Have played a couple games before".
I would have liked to see more than THIS from John for his first post in forever. He's probably new enough that he doesn't even know what to do...

At least I hope so, because the play is just too bad to be scum.

First things first

unvote



also, this is my 4th game, i feel like a fish in a river full of sharks :c
Others have brought up how dabuz is playing the newb card, here. Earlier Xastrn asked for experience, and dabuz is just giving it here. This is why he played the card, and it's completely null.

Why so quick to believe RR? The chances of this were way to slim, yet you were more than willing to go along with it.

But on the other hand, you didn't put a vote in this post






So basically, you just admitted your a bandwagoner, great to know.



Explain, were you reasons anything other than "RR copped werekill""?

If not, your also a bandwagoner with no attempt to hide it




Dislike, its too risky for town because that means that townies are also locked down because if they don't like a lynch, speaking against it will probably get them voted, and considering the likelihood of catching scum like this isn't high like you make it sound like, it is more harmful than helpful




Dislike, looks like an attempt to keep town and scum in control of one person per day, the odds of this helping scum are more than it helping town.



Please elaborate


Your overly confident in this statement, what makes you so sure werekill is not spell's scum buddy? What information do you have?



*noting the defense of spell*




*noting the vote-casting on spell*



That post by OS was seemingly a joke post IMO, but it looks like your over-reacting to it





Im surprised no one commented on this. Can you explain what about T-Block's play has led you to believe this?





So, do you feel more inclined to follow W/E overswarm says as a result?





lol, i give this comment 9/10



Isn't that a loaded question towards john? he hasn't posted much (if at all), so how can he respond when accused about why he isn't scum?
This is a much better way to come back into the thread. I disagree with some of dabuz's logic, but that's not important to me. I like that he made a catch-up post where John did not. Still null, I just wanted to bring that up.

Would you agree therefore, that he's either scum or favoring scum?

see what I'm saying?



Yes. On account of the gay.

At first I was going to type *takes a bow* but then I thought it'd be funny to post an ace attorney bowing pic like inui used to always do, but then I threw up a little and decided to do neither.


oh hey, i just noticed you're from arizona. I lived out there in 08-09. I used to play with JustinKamikaze and duff0 and the whole tempe crew (chris and bryce and i forget who else) oh and saffy and a couple other people. Oh bloodhawk.
Raziek's day job:

Why so much fluff?

Bleck.

More seriously, No, I don't intend to follow everything OS says/does. I just got behind an idea early because I saw the merit, and I've had way too many mafia games ruined by inactivity. J, you'll remember our first game together, you were very inactive through day 2 into day 3, and i called for your lynch several times, only to eventually save you from a mislynch when you were our doc. In my very next game, which I think was the other majora's mask game, I immediately voted you because you were inactive in the other game but joined another.


You'll need to explain to me what merit you saw on OS's idea, because I didn't see it. Unless you mean merit for scum, in which case I would be inclined to agree.

seriously, I hate inactivity in these games.

OS I have an assignment for you. Pick a cutoff post: (this one will work just fine) and count everyone's posts from the first post of the game starting until this one.

If anyone does this before OS, then I'll send you a chocolate in the mail.
All you do it complain about inactivity and ask OS to tally posts for you so you can measure it. Meanwhile, you're faking content.

Are you just doing this so your post-count looks higher when the tally comes in?

You're faking content, and I don't appreciate it.

Well, Kantrip is lined up, and while relatively new, he played well in Disco Mafia 3, so I'd be happy to see him in.
Awe thanks Raz, you really think so? I didn't like my play in that game, to be honest (it was my first game of forum mafia though so I'm allowed to johh).

Dang, Raziek beat me to it. I went through each apge and counted...here's what I got.



J - IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII III

Circus - IIIII IIIII IIIII II

Overswarm - IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII II

John2k4 - IIIII III

dabuz - IIII

nabe - IIIII IIIII IIII

Xastrn - IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII II

Panta - IIIII

Spellcasters - IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII II

Red Ryu - IIIII IIIII II

T-Block - IIIII II

Solid - IIIII IIII

Frio - I

Raziek - IIIII IIIII III
John has time go "go through each age and count the votes" but hasn't posted any content?

He answers fluffy questions but not meaningful ones?

Still leaning newb-town over newb-scum, but this read could go either way. IGMEOY, John.

Excluding RVS posts....

Red sticks out to me. Why would he have such an eye on Frio, who has made a grand total of one post? Additionally, why only a nameclaim? Granted, he'd already claimed his role, but I would personally want a full-claim if I actually believed it.

These questions seem odd. Why is Circus asking hypotheticals based on what he knows at this point is a gambit?
It took Raz a long time to voice concern on Circus. I'm not sure why.

Red also sits poorly with me.
Explain.

Will get to Nabe and Solid next.

Note this. He says he'll get to Nabe and Solid next.

Nabe essentially has no posts outside of RVS except this one. His RVS had unusually heavy focus on Circus, though.

If he doesn't actually address your response to this, I'd be worried.
This is all you had to say? Why would you say you would get to Nabe next just to say he has essentially no posts out of RVS?

This is the only post I care about from Solid.

I like his opinion on RR's gambit, but I'm unsettled that he's instantly ok with a Panta lynch.

Also, regarding my vote: I don't intend to place it until I have a solid scum read. After MMX, I've decided it's in my interest to not be as loose with my vote.
Same with SOLID? Do you have a scum agenda or something? You say you'll address SOLID next, then you can't find anything and give a bad analysis of a singular post.

I'm finding RR actions pretty weird. He came out as a day cop day 1. If it's true he's just hoping someone will protect him over night but he hasn't taken any action to encourage his safety. Instead he just went instantly for werekill.

Unvote
Alright J, so far, here's a couple of my thoughts.

Why was Red Ryu faking the daycop, and trying to get everyone to go after Werekill?

Panta I am not sure about. Could possibly be a scapegoat.
These two are playing similarly, and I'm still getting newb-town from both of them for now.

What I was looking for was a comparison between their two takes on OS' fallback lynch idea, since T-block decried it and Xastrn thought it was great. Naturally the question would be wasted if people got here before you and talked about T-block and Xastrn. I appreciate the buddying-OS comment, and I agree that we're seeing as much, but Xastrn acknowledges it as well. I don't think it's a hallmark of anything.

I think T-block is being abnormally abrasive, to the same extent that Xastrn is being cuddly. Granted, I haven't played with T-block in a while. Talk to me about T-block.
Ah, your question to J asking for a C&C was a good one. I agree with Nabe's thoughts on TB and Xastrn. TB being abrasive. Xastrn being cuddly.
Being abrasive against OS is like a deathwish, right? :awesome:

There's not much to say -- he notes that a lot of my posts are RVS.

Raziek is a player I have trouble figuring out. His posts consistently appear scummy to me, and in this game in particular he's only spoken when spoken to. I can't get inside his head. Aside from RE4 I can't think of any time I haven't thought he was scum and had him actually be town.
Don't you think what Raz did was suspicious? "I'll address Nabe and SOLID next." Then he realized he had nothing to address.

We just don't mesh, Nabe. It happens.
I don't like how you try to avoid conflict by writing it off as a clash of personalities. Everything considered thus far...

FoS: Raziek

Who's soft-claiming? I am the investigative role in this game, and as such I am going to investigate you. An investigation is in the works. I am labeling an empty file folder RAZ in preparation for toNight when I use it as a case file.

in my investigation
What the crap? I don't even know what to make of this random hard claim. Why is everyone randomly claiming and investigative?

We can be buds this game T-Block. :D
I don't like buddying.

It might be a minute, because I'm going to eat before getting any further.

Do like Raziek and J against Xastrn. Do like T-block's suspicion of OS' ideas.

/thoughtvomit

Be back soon.
Do agree with what Circus likes. He provided very little here, and it was all very simple conclusions to make, though.

Would like to see Circus make some cases for himself and provide some content.

After reading more carefully I'm leaning scum but it's not finite. I've never played a game with him before but I don't like how defensive he was being. Calling out OS' joke claim about Circus shows me that much. Defensive play could certainly be town but that plus the going after the easy guy in Spells makes me think bolder scum. Maybe a Joffrey Baratheon.
This is a fair read to make on Panta. I think it's town, just because of how I've observed Panta's play in the past.

Don't like this. Overall Xastrn seems too buddyish for my tastes and this reason is a bad one. Not feeling a specific alignment. I also hate WIFOM so that doesn't help him.
Another reasonable conclusion. This one I agree with.


Awesome, now tell us your reads and some more useful information that you found. Don't like your beating around the bush, Varys.



That'd be this one:



I don't see any problem with it. My being okay with Panta's lynch 'instantly' could be unsettling, but I stand by it because his play is scummy.



Quality question, I like it. I'd sleep with you to keep you close. And because you won't kill your children. Now I have a question for you: you're Robb Stark, riding into battle. Who, of the active players, do you name as castellan of Winterfell in your absence?

Overall thoughts: J and Raz are good, Nabe leaning good but need more, would like more from Overswarm and Circus before forming an opinion, Xastrn uneasy, John needs to deliver more content, don't like Panta, Frio completely null, RR leaning town, gambit was good idea but him pulling off does nothing so I don't like that, will be waiting for Spells to replace out before I can get a real read.[/QUOTE]

Your reads are pretty good. I disagree with Raz and Panta, but other than that not too much to say here. I don't know where I got my scum read on you on my first read-through. I think it was something about tunneling John and only posting really safe things that people can both agree with and see you as town for. I don't share that same opinion this time, as I see your reads weren't just playing it safe. I think they were actually pretty reasonable.

Alright Solid.

My two scumpicks so far would be Red and Panta.

Red was quick to fake a daycop, calling out Were. He could either be scum, trying to act like town and seem intelligible towards the vote, or he could be town, trying to throw the scum off. my gut is leaning toward scum.

Panta seems like he could be a scum scapegoat to me. They could be using him as the second lynch to cause the town to firmly pick a primary lynch, so that he does not get picked.
So he CAN form reads and provide reasoning. Maybe his play isn't what I thought after all. It's apparent that John IS INDEED capable of forming a read, but only when asked. He's more than comfortable answering fluff or tallying all the posts in the thread, though.

From newb-town to newb-scum, just like that.

I can't be lynched unless I want to be lynched. Trust me on that one.

John2k4 is town or one of the worst scum players I've ever seen. One or the other. I'd lean towards town.

You'll get more later when I'm done watching Braveheart.
Only addresses being unlynchable and thinking John is town for playing badly. Does OS's posting patterns not seem erratic to anyone else? I guess it's a null tell, but OS needs to post more.

I think I should drop out then, I have 3 mid terms this week and TBH i can't keep up with this amount of posts.
I would have said something like this if I wanted to avoid contributing. Not saying that's what Frio is doing, though.

Is it just me, or did Nabe claim cop? I'm massively tired and can't tell.

Also, Vote: RR. The guy fakeclaimed for no reason against a townie (me) who hadn't even posted yet. >_>
Why is this scummy?

Werekill, don't be dumb.
:awesome:

Because you think he's scum



or to get him out of your hair
:glare:

How? Scummy play is scummy play, and there were no real benefits to starting a wagon on me at all.
So a cop gambit is scummy play?

Elaborate.

I mainly just don't like that he started a wagon on someone who wasn't even a presence in any way. Information isn't a problem; crappy info an bad play is another.

And I can't be defensive when I had a huge wagon against me when I wasn't even here yet?
Your defensiveness was warranted. Calling the gambit scumm was not.

Try to think about intent.

MMX is an ongoing game, so I can't say much, but I was Town, and erractic voting patterns contributed to my lynch. As such, I'm taking that in mind and not being to "wagon-jumpy" with my votes.

Nabe, your opinion on Overswarm?
Are you trying to invalidate meta on you by saying you'll be playing differenntly? Why would you feel the need to say this?

@mod, I believe my vote is on spellcasters as of post #62.

The below is from post #117 onwards, where RVS ended per my declaration. It does not include post #116.

This data mining will continue for some time. I'm interested in what we learn from it. Ignore it if you will, but at the very least use it to see who is hiding under the radar and who someone is really interested in.

Things I'm looking at:

Who people reference (directly or indirectly)
who people proclaim as scummy or town (directly or indirectly)
Who people vote for

When I say "reference", this includes replying to someone's question or asking them a question, responding to a statement they've made, commenting on that player, etc. It's a very loose concept here and expect these numbers to be inflated, although if someone simply says "OS" three times in one post it'll still only count as one.

When I say "proclaim scummy or town", this is not as loose a concept and this should be taken more seriously.

When I say vote, I mean only voting for someone; not unvoting. You guys can keep track of that yourself.


For those playing the home game, this is more a less three tiers of the same idea. Those you reference you don't necessarily have a strong opinion on, those you proclaim scummy or town you may have an opinion on but not necessarily a case, and those you vote for you should have your strongest read on.

Scum often can blend in because they do the above three out of sequence. They'll vote for someone before they have an actual case, force them to defend themselves, and THEN proclaim them as scummy based off their defense. Scum can often set up bad lynches by planting seeds of distrust as well; constantly calling someone into question on a repeated basis or asking them pointed questions can lower the opinion of that player to the rest of town, ultimately leading in other people pushing a lynch. And, as always, scum can often blend in by simply not pursuing people but rather constantly feeling the waters and referencing many but not taking hard stances and going towards the path of least resistance.

If you see someone who is directly avoiding others, take note. If you see a discrepancy in their voting patterns in comparison to their proclaimed "town or scum" notions of other players, take note. If you see someone consistently referencing another player but not pursuing them aggressively, take note.
If you see everyone else fitting the mold (like referencing RRyu claiming DCop) but someone else completely avoiding it in all their posts, take note. If you notice that someone has only made a passing reference to another player and not done anything else, look into it.

I'll happily let scum attempt to juggle this.

Keep in mind by the way, I'm not interpreting posts. So sarcasm is lost on graphs.

Anyway, here's what we have so far:

Calls Scummy:


Calls town:


Votes:


References (take note of the empty boxes):


References in graph form for you visual people:








Points I'd like addressed, other than people filling in the blank spaces on that excel sheet.



What prompted you to say "Wait, Ryu wasn't bsing about the daycop claim"?




Sounds like it is in your best interests to modify your playstyle and perhaps lead a charge yourself, no?



Well you'll find out on my flip, now wont you?



ANOTHER RICE?!

Tell him I'm sorry about Megaman. :B


Post #236 is John posting how many times people have posted in roman numerals. This is prior to posting his reads, which he has been asked for. Someone daykill him?



Good, you've learned! Being loose with your vote creates a trail that may be true or false, but either way can be openly interpreted. If it makes you feel any better, you were more a victim of circumstance and that was the short straw you created for yourself.



It's the avatar.




Personal notes and guesses:

J and Xastrn isn't S/S


More will occur later. Interpret the above as you will.

vote: Solid
I'm not going to pay your charts and data much heed. Just saying. I'd like to know more about the SOLID vote.

Cool. We're on the same page then.

Raz/J/T-Block Town team go go?
Ew. I don't like how you ask for J to give you a bunch of stuff and then say "cool we are on the same page". Horrid buddying.

Let's hear option C. I'm fairly comfortable with Dastrn, as much of what I've disliked from him stems largely from ideological differences. Not opposed to revisiting him at a later time, however.
Option is a very punny vote.

Unvote
Vote: Circus


Meet option C, Option Circus. ;D
I like this vote. I was hoping that was who you had in mind.

vote: Circus
Again with asking J for content so you can say "I agree" and get away with providing none of your own content. This buddying is a great way for you to coast as scum, if that's what's happening.

Well, my primary issue is because Circus has been quietly buddying most of the more vocal Town players. (in this case, Nabe, You, and Myself) That's largely why I was glad you wanted to move that direction. It's also one of the things I took note of from OS's charts. Circus has called you and only you Town.



This post in particular. If this is thoughtvomit, why make it so obvious that he's trying to slide under our radar?



This feels pretty fake to me. It was pretty clear that OS wasn't gambitting, so I don't like that he's expressing false suspicion on him. On top of that, he's brushing off my suspicion at that point instead of giving a decent explanation.





His focus on John is also unsettling. I don't particularly care for John, but I wouldn't go as far as to say "He's the play." Same goes for Frio, though that's less of an issue at this point.
Strongly dislike this post. J does the right thing and makes you provide reasoning for agreeing with him flat out. What do you come up with?

"Circus is buddying more vocal town players."

What have you been doing again?

OH YEAH....

In fact, this entire post seems forced and reachy.

Actually, almost ALL of Circus' suspicions have either been directed towards those who have posted less. (Frio, John, Spellcasters) Only OS sticks out from that pile, too.

Take it home, J.
Again you ask J to give your content for you. You slip out the backdoor in hopes that J will cover your retreat for you since your case was reachy.

Fair enough, I can agree with that.

T-Block, talk to me. How do you feel about Circus and OS? Are you willing to work with J and I?
Wow. If Circus is scummy for buddying town players, I don't even know what that makes you.

You're collecting buddies like a snowball rolling downhill.

I took the last few hours away from the keyboard to meet with a developer friend...details don't matter.

I like the general flow of today's actions.

OS, i like your spreadsheet. I wish you were in the broom so you could understand how much I like spreadsheets in mafia games. it's become a meme back there.

I need to reread the last 3 pages or so to get a better feel on this sudden circus wagon. I still don't want to unvote my joke vote because I still want John2k to do SOMETHING.

Also, Frio. There, I said his name. The last player i haven't interacted with.
Stop buddying OS.

Circus, can you please share what you find about me to be definitive "scum"? From what I've seen, you just had a quick beginning vote, possibly influenced by my lack of early posts. Since then, you have been steadfast in that I am scum...posting without hesitation. I still haven't gotten a full explanation as to why.

Circus seems a bit too quick on the "SCUM!" draw...

Vote: Circus
I don't like this post. John is mid-wagon hopping with poor reasoning.

Holy ****. Frio and John, being opportunistic as all get out right now. So scummy. SO GODDAMN SCUMMY.

I've gotta get to bed, but I'll try to get to some of this **** now.

Seriously though, someone else please tell me they've got their eyes on those two. Like, holy ****.
I do, but also realize that opportunistic play can come from new town players as well. Sometimes they don't know what to say and will only answer things when asked to, because they can't scumhunt well on their own.

I'm getting this from Frio, not as much from John.

Not really interested in being your Watson right now. I'll be my own Sherlock if that's cool with you.

I suppose. I guess where I take issue is that this is not really something I'm worried about. I'm trying not to be paranoid, but I also just feel more comfortable with J after Pulp Fiction anyway. So, it's not like it's hard. J's not really of very much concern to me right now.

Considering the fact that the wagon on you was already basically dead by the time you got here, and that you were never going to get lynched on it anyway, it could be argued that you're being too defensive.

Pretty serious. I'm going to try not to tunnel; it's only a couple days into the Day. But I think he's acting really scummy.

I initially assumed he was kidding. Not gambiting, but just joking in RVS and maybe hoping to get a read out of it if anyone was dumb enough to fall for it. Then he kept pushing his claim like it was real, and that made me confused.

Because I agree with what you said.

I genuinely don't know. From my perspective, I'm pretty obvtown. Maybe you're trying to pay me back for Pulp Fiction, but you don't strike me as that petty.

I'll just wait here for Raziek to get at me for trying to meta myself.

I don't recall calling J town. I recall verablizing my like for one of his posts.

You can call it buddying if you want, but I think we both know how subjective that interpretation is. Calling that a scumtell—in fact, your primary reason for your suspicion—is weak. By that logic, you've been buddying just as much.

There are plenty of people that I currently consider pretty strongly leaning town, whom I haven't even discussed.

I'm...not trying to "slide" under anyone's radar. What are you talking about? I actually don't know what point you're trying to make here at all.

Assuming facts not in evidence. I'm wary of OS because he's OS. That you think my concern with him is fake is your own problem.

If it seems like I'm brushing off your suspicion of me, it's probably because I think you're suspicion of me is super, super dumb.

I'll get to them in a bit. But I guess something that would be helpful to know about me is that I like using language like this. I like being blunt and sometimes pretty abrasive even when I only have a slight read on someone. I think pushing people's buttons is useful. So yeah, I'm going to call people scum even when I'm not sure they're scum. I'm going to say things like "he's the play" even if I'm actually open to, like, half the roster for the actual lynch at the end of the Day. Don't get hung up on how adamant my push is; just pay attention to who and why I'm pushing.

Or keep drilling where there is no oil. That's another option.

You.
Are.
Scum.

So you're OMGUS-ing me. Your vote on me doesn't look as innocent as you seem to think it does.

Also, I've hardly actually gone after you so far. You're full of ****. You're piggybacking someone else's opinion and joining a wagon you think is safe. Nothing you've said this entire game rings sincere to me at all. You're not thinking for yourself and you're not thinking critically at all. You're telling town what you think they want to hear, or what you think you'll be able to get away with saying without anybody looking at you too hard for it.

John, I'll make a new post for you.
You think Frio and John are BOTH scum, or just one or the other? If the latter, which one? I mean, this is pretty harsh tunneling on the less vocal players, which causes your case to look reachy.

Race is valuable information in this game. By consequence, so is name.

That's part of why I've got my eye on Circus asking for a nameclaim from Red Ryu.

Your response to my questions would help me determine your intentions for doing so, and if you share information based on others reactions (which I suppose I could infer myself), then that's information we gain too.

Besides, the idea has clearly gone and passed, and you've not pushed it. That means it was likely never serious to begin with, and you wanted to see who would take the bait. It's likely helped you form an opinion on Xastrn, T-Block, J, and myself, I would imagine.
Where did you come about this information with such certainty?

People I would lynch right this second in the middle of linear algebra:

Werekill, Circus, Panta (where is he since the push?)

More from a CPU.
And Raz is scum but that's okay atm
Nabe, you're funny. Was this serious?
Because I believe he is.

@Mod: Can I admit to being scum?

teehee.
Unvote
Vote: Overswarm
I don't even know wtf you're doing, Red Ruy.

Alright, John case go.

Arguably John's first "real" post of the Day. He hops on the Werekill wagon with the statement "got reasons," but doesn't give any. He is even asked to clarify later by J, but never answers. And apparently J didn't care to follow up.

He then spends the next several posts saying absolutely nothing of any consequence whatsoever. Yes, it's early in the game and everyone's still pretty light-hearted anyway, but John's not joking around; he's just posting the fluffiest fluff he can fluff up about sign-up rules and trying to keep up with the thread and counting how many posts everyone has made so far (two links) even though he goes on to say that post count is null.

But he makes a point of sprinkling in posts that imply that he'll get around to properly contributing soon (two links), even though he never actually does it.

When he "contributes," he does it in the least useful, least sincere way possible.

AND THEN.

Ref flag ahoy!



Bingo. This is the post that flipped my tunnel switch. Up to this point, I really didn't even care that much about John. My vote was on him in RVS pretty arbitrarily. I didn't know who he was, so I just stuck my vote on him. First, that's kind of obvious, making the question he's asking me here completely useless (plus, one of his most recent posts seems to suggest that he already knew this was the case. So again, what's the point of even asking me?). Second, he has not even given any substantial reads yet, or put on pressure on anyone, but he's already sweating my RVS vote on him enough to dedicate a post to asking me about it? What? It's worth noting that I'm the only person who even has my vote on John at this point. Why is it even a blip on John's radar if he's town?

And by the way, the fluff I mentioned earlier? It just keeps coming (three links, and that's what she said).

This is the closest John has come to giving a read on anyone all game. That wishy-washy "Ryu might be scum but maybe he's not" stance, and "Panta might be a scapegoat or something." And he hasn't attempted to pressure or ask questions of ANYONE unless it's something like "Circus, why don't you like me?" You would think that, considering how weak his reads apparently are, that he would be doing some of that. That he would be interested in learning more about the people that he might suspect, since all that rereading he claims to have been doing hasn't yielded him anything more worthwhile than this.

He follows the herd. And let me be clear about my language—he is only following the herd. He's not even trying to blend and attack the same players he sees other people attacking; he's too skittish to do that. He sees other people make observations and then repeats them. "I'm on your side, but you hold the knife; I'm no good with it." He's completely uninterested in actually finding scum or pursuing new information. He just wants to have the same opinion you do and then let you figure out what the next step is. It's worth noting that the only two times he has voted at all (on Werekill and on me, even though the biggest reads he has mentioned all game, as previously discussed, were Red Ryu and maybe Panta), it has been to jump on a pre-established wagon for no independently given reason. Ryu was apparently his biggest scum read earlier on in the game, but he never voted him (in fact, he made a point not to). Why? I assume because there hasn't been a nice, big Ryu wagon to latch onto yet.

I believe T-block asked me if I had entertained the thought that John (and Frio) are noobtown rather than scum. The answer to that question of course is yes. But hell if that's any reason not to pressure them.
Interesting... Your case looks sincere and you gave it on your own. I like that. What I don't like is how hard you're tunneling on null reads. Care to explain your fixation for John and Frio?

Current major focuses are on Circus and John, nobody has claimed.

Not really going to taint your reading, you should come to the situation with your own opinion.
"Yeah don't want to taint your reading but here's who the focus is.|

*looks up*

Obviously.


I'm pretty tired of your shenanigans Raziek. Playing as town or scum, you're playing sloppy, and that's just plain disrespectful. Show some effort.

"Look where the votes are" ?

That's an appeal to authority, nor does it imply who the "focus" is. We have three people with one vote, three people with two votes, and one person with three votes. Those wagons are all identical, separated only by cases, of which none have been made as of yet.

The entirety of comments made on both Circus and John have been "that's unhelpful" or "well, you sure are, uh, defending yourself there! That's what scum would do!". There is no "focus" and all our time so far has mostly been wasted because you are approaching the problem by choosing two people (good so far) and then pairing them against each other mentally with the assumption that one's alignment is affecting the other... when it does not.

You're not going to get answers that way. You picked one person out of 17, and you let that person pick someone else, and then decided those were the two that were the "focus"? Hardly. The odds of getting one scum out of that group is very low. The odds of getting two, especially when you let the other person pick it, is incredibly small.

Instead, ignore Circus and John because they've given you nothing. The people that have actually GIVEN you something are the people that have commented on it. YOU are more of a focus than Circus or John are, and I could get you lynched for your posts if I felt so inclined. I strongly suggest instead of reviewing Circus and John you review those that have commented on the case and, just as important, those who have not.

I even made a chart for you; you can start from there.
This sums up my thoughts on that.




Alright, so: after a proper re-read, here are my reads:

Raziek
T-Block
Overswarm
Xastrn
Solid
Panta
Red Ryu
dabuz
Nabe
Circus
Werekill
John2k4
Kantrip
J
Frio

The read is either explained in the massive wall, or is null.

So, this is only my thoughts on everything that went on before my original read post. This is basically what it SHOULD have been, and I completely ignored it when making this.

I think Xastrn is the best lynch for today, so my vote remains on him for now.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
Accusation? I'm just stating the facts: you have never followed up with your promise for a larger post (which doesn't need to be super duper ultra long anyway), and you constantly offer up excuses as a way to say "look guys, content!"
Alright Werekill, you happy now?

:troll:
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
I always thought post 1000 was cooler.

Were, since you're here, could I get your thoughts on dabuz, Circus, and solid?
 
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