Majoras Mask Mafia! DGames' Longest Game Ends - Who Won?!?!?!?

[Inferno3044]

I still don't understand why Kantrip was the NK target. Can someone explain this one to me?

 

[Raziek]

He claimed a protective Day 2 during or near Twilight.

 

[Inferno3044]

I don't remember this lol. Bad memory ftl

 

[T-block]

Yeah, J killed him because he saw the protective claim.

I'm fine with revealing QT if J and Dastrn are. It's not much really... past D1 it becomes J talking to himself, then Acrostic talking to himself, then me talking to myself lol

 

[Raziek]

It's still nice to read what the scum thought about who was what, it helps us know how we need to tweak our town/indy play.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I'm not going to say much on the subject of MVP since I don't enjoy tooting my own horn more than necessary, but if you think any of those scum lynches would have fallen into place without my presence you're all reading a different game.

I did spearhead every scum lynch since I replaced in. Even if I wasn't the very first to suggest Acrostic and Nabe, I was the first to come up with convincing arguments and actually get their lynches on the table and sealed through hard work instead of other's suggestions of them being scum or their unconvincing haphazard cases. This goes especially true after T-Block was finished as I guarantee Raziek would have pulled that out unopposed had I not been there pounding on him with every post. This doesn't even mention how Nabe would have also slipped out of pretty much everyone else's grip (because he's the only one who actually uses AtE to damn effectively) if I wasn't relentlessly leading the push. The only one that had even brought up suspicions about him before was Werekill and literally everyone else (including me at that point) shot him down for his claim.

I re-read the thread in full twice N6 to figure out why the hell the game wasn't over and I ran every scenario more times than you can even imagine. Thanks to this sickness I had more time in bed to think about it and the read came with hard work. It wasn't just some whimsical decision that turned out to be correct, and Werekill certainly didn't pin him (props to you for suspecting him Werekill, but you ended up suspecting pretty much the entire cast at one point so I can't really say your case gave me much weight to work with).

That's my piece on my own play this game. Feel free to critique what's necessary but most of Soup's posts is just a complete lie which especially annoys me because he didn't even bother to consider what went on behind the scenes (or even read the thread competently, for that matter).

 

[Inferno3044]

@Everyone - How do you guys think I played my role as jailer? I'm curious to know people's opinions.

 

[Raziek]

Kuz, you really didn't have anything at all to do with Acrostic or T-Block. They were completely obvious lynches.

 

[th3kuzinator]

You do realize that we were about to lynch Nabe after he claimed scum and I stopped us from lynching claimed scum and convinced town to lynch Acrostic instead because it was a more favorable scenario.

The Acrostic lynch at that phase was not the obvious choice.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Not to mention RR and Inferno were also very hesitant at lynching T-Block at first. I'll secede that his lynch was probably my easiest, but that doesn't mean I didn't work for it and if you read the thread around the time of his lynch you'll see what I mean.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@Red Ryu: "Don't take a screencap of what is on your screen and the post it in the game". If you wanted clarification you should have asked before breaking the rule for a second time after being warned once already, its not like I gave him modvotes for the first offence, I warned everyone and said don't do it again. He did it again and he gets mod votes - if he or you think that I just gave some random or arbitrary punishment then whatever but I will punish you not based on some rigid chart of x crime = y punishment but instead based on the nature of the offence and the current state of the game, something which only I can measure as no-one else has sufficient information about the set-up. You also referenced Melee Tourney Mafia where I gave Adum MOD votes which you don't agree with but that's because you have no idea what went on and thus really aren't in a position to fairly comment.

Did you know some of the pics I posted were screen caps of what was on my screen. You know some of those pics I posted, I screen capped pics from other sites and put them in Gimp to upload when I couldn't save them.

Tell me why it is broken to upload a chart. I could easily replicate OS' chart in text form, hell I could click the side fo the thread to show a chart of how many posts people made in the game?

If the issue is he made his data into a graph form, there is nothing stopping him from posting it in text form from Excel. Him taking quotes of every post made and placing it into a collapse tag showing it with a number of times it happened.

Why is it wrong for him to post data anyone can get? Stopping people for posting Hydra QTs has a reason, so does stopping editing and other rules in every game.

Tell me why stopping the posting of graphs is good for the game? Because it is a dumb arbitrary rule to limit game play for no reason.

 

[Raziek]

You didn't lead that lynch though, you just explored the scenario. >_>

After Nabe claimed his entire role on the table and substantiated it with the fact that nobody else had been abducted, he literally wasn't a threat.

T-Block was so obvious scum that I would have given LVP to anyone who didn't vote him.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@X1: I also want to comment, like everyone else, on this setup. It blew my mind.I thought it was genius as soon as Acrostic flipped and I understood how poison kills were dolled out. The system of race that you integrated into the game made the game better flavor wise, but the fact that it also had a significant sensible integration into the game mechanics made me (and to a much greater extent I'm sure, Nabe) giddy. When I saw T-Block's lynch and thought the game was over I was ready to congratulate you for a game well designed but then there turned out to be another factor I hadn't even considered.

Aside from the disappointment that I hadn't won, I was intrigued. What else could you have put in the game, I thought, that didn't have another kill. I immediately thought lyncher (since there was no kill) but thought that might be imbalanced with the types of roles we've had claimed. I actually did solve the puzzle that same Night when I realized that Raziek's claim helped save him from the poison. At first I thought that was just a town perk we had, but then I got to thinking that the indy would need some sort of buff (and since it wasn't a kill I thought poison proof with a side of bulletproof would make sense).

I think you could have done more to embellish the Zora and the Deku races a bit, but I think the concept was excellent and Raziek's ability combined with his flavor claim and confirmability by Circus really left him with a convincing claim.

Overall the balance was spot on and the game basically came down to the last lynch because if we had lynched anyone other than Raziek, he would have hammered the hate jailkeeper the next Day.

Really great concept and setup execution. Modding hiccup with OS was a problem, so I've been told, but if that hadn't happened I wouldn't have been able to replace in to this game as a town slot so even that had its advantages for me.

Thanks again X1. I'll also be denying your request to co-mod your next small as I'd rather be a player in the setup then a mod on the sidelines.

 

[th3kuzinator]

You didn't lead that lynch though, you just explored the scenario. >_>

After Nabe claimed his entire role on the table and substantiated it with the fact that nobody else had been abducted, he literally wasn't a threat.

T-Block was so obvious scum that I would have given LVP to anyone who didn't vote him.

But I did lead every lynch. Every. Single. One.

And who pushed Nabe into a place where he was forced to give up or accept his lynch? Me. Every single word of every single posts for two days straight I was on his back telling everyone he was scum AtEing for his life and he needed death. At places where people started to back off and consider alternatives, I brought the focus back to Nabe and the role conflict. As much as you're trying to downgrade my achievements, these lynches were made a reality by me.

And no, he wasn't. Nabe is right that his miller post was very good. He was doomed, but I think he put up a fairly good effort with the situation he was given. And don't talk to me about hesitation, ask Inferno and RR why they had second thoughts on T-Block's lynch.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I will say even though I disagree with that rule, I did enjoy this game and thought the set-up was genius. Props to you for that X1.

 

[T-block]

kuz, as much as I did think you played well, I can't give anyone credit for my lynch.

There was sloppy play between me and Xastrn which was brought up before you started even talking about me.
There was Nabe who mod-confirmed that I targetted Nabe N1, when no NK happened.
There was Werekill with a guilty on me.
There was Inferno who blocked me on a night where there was again no NK.

It doesn't take a skilled player to push the lynch at that point =P

 

[Kantrip]

Baited the NK like a boss with some BS that J actually fell for about my protect being WIFOM'd between some random people.

Hold on gonna' see who won.

 

[th3kuzinator]

kuz, as much as I did think you played well, I can't give anyone credit for my lynch.

There was sloppy play between me and Xastrn which was brought up before you started even talking about me.
There was Nabe who mod-confirmed that I targetted Nabe N1, when no NK happened.
There was Werekill with a guilty on me.
There was Inferno who blocked me on a night where there was again no NK.

It doesn't take a skilled player to push the lynch at that point =P

Common sense should have told everyone you were scum and you were doomed. That doesn't mean Inferno and RR weren't having second thoughts and I had to battle you for your lynch. It shouldn't have taken any effort to kill you, but it did because of the players alive at the time.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I had some, in a sense, but I rethought it and just did it due to the evidence there. Kuz did play a part to why I did stick to it though, I'd be lying if I said he didn't.

 

[Kantrip]

Great set-up X1, I really enjoyed it

I can't remember now what drove me to hide that protective soft-claim in my "notepad notes", but I was honestly thinking that scum wouldn't buy it. I was pretty happy they did though, because me being killed was really good for the game, in my eyes. I was an easy mis-lynch for scum, I had connections with other players, I was a VT, and I didn't feel confident that I could help out in end game.

I was reading along with the endgame and Raziek indy was the conclusion I got, mostly due to my read on him earlier in the game.

Good job to town, I'm glad we pulled that win out there

 

[Asdioh]

It plays D1 Clock town theme then D2 theme on Day2 until he plays it, that's why it went back to D1 theme during Day 8 start (because Raz played song of time during N7). Unfortunately no-one noticed this

I noticed because I looked at D8 and thought "why is it playing clock town day 1?"

I haven't read the game, but I just looked at the setup and it looks fairly brilliant. I laughed at the hand role.

 

[X1-12]

Did you know some of the pics I posted were screen caps of what was on my screen. You know some of those pics I posted, I screen capped pics from other sites and put them in Gimp to upload when I couldn't save them.

And the reason (within this game) that I didn't punish them is because I had no way of knowing this whereas with OS it was clear, in the same way I am unable to punish outside communication if I don't find out about it. If you want to know why I think graphs should be against the rules then go see the theory thread

 

[Overswarm]

Or you could post it here instead of hiding.

 

[Overswarm]

Soupamario/T-block
Xastrn
J

Gustave

Raziek

That's interesting. :B

 

[Dastrn]

I'm disappointed in how this game played out, naturally.

I survived some early heat on day 1 and came out looking fine. J for some reason wanted to keep putting pressure on me to "stay in character" when I could have been ignored for a couple of days after that.

This would have been an easy win for scum IMO if he hadn't done that. I ended up getting lynched day 1 and then we were jailed out of using most of our night kills AND poisons. We would have won if he hadn't have bussed me so hard when it was unnecessary.

 

[X1-12]

Raziek: You did play pretty well and I do feel that you did get a bit unlucky with the scumteam getting incapacitated so fast that they couldn't kill off enough townies. I also think it kinda sucked for you that kuz replaced in and then there was no NKs so you had to be stuck with such a strong player, whereas if he was around from the start he would most likely have been killed off before LYLO. I think your case in LYLO was pretty weak but mostly because you really didn't have that much dirt available to pull up vs kuz, nonetheless I thin you played it well to get as far as you did

T-Block: I think you got a bit **** on by circumstance in this game which was very unlucky, but still good going, as others have said I think your first few posts when you were released were very well written and convincing

kuz: Well played son. I thought your case on Raz particularly was very convincing and am massively surprised that he didn't get lynched sooner. Your decision to lynch Acro over Nabe was great and your constant wondering about the set-up and balance entertained me throughout the game

Dastrn: You need to learn to play it cool when you play as scum, you were fine at the start but when pressure built up you completely crumbled and looked really bad, fortunately J had the sense to bus you but you also need to understand that its really not your scummates job to protect you. You have to look out for yourself and if they're laying into you then defend yourself better. It is definitely worth one player getting a bit of heat rather than the two of you having a clear connection when you are dead. You were saying in the QT that J was attacking you for things that aren't legit - if that's the case then you just need to debunk them and you'll look good, don't ***** and moan at them.

Solid: You play aight I guess, but a bit lazily and apathetically which is something people don't like and scum will just see as an opportunity to push you. Fortunately you were already dying from poision when you claimed role.

Panta: You should keep up better, you should also drop the self-pity and the complaining and instead just get on with doing stuff. I did notice your breadcrumbs of "lost" though and thought they were pretty good

Red Ryu: You played ok, I think you still need to question your reads and actually re-think what you're saying, why can't dabuz just have been busy? That seemed to be basically the only thing you were basing an indy read off for a fair while, oh and the fact that he got an innocent on him... How is that incriminating again?? Its a null tell, as it being inactive.

dabuz: Your endgame play I felt was pretty terrible and poorly thought out. You need to think harder before you post and actually have a reason for what you say.

Nabe: This was like my favourite role in the whole set-up and I'm so glad a good player drew it, I think you played it really well up until the claim which went wrong because of you trying to guess at the nature of the set-up. Even after Werekill and Inferno's claim I still think you fought it out pretty well. I don't really mind you basically giving up at that point because I felt like you'd already been a trooper and there was nothing really you could do.

Circus: You played pretty solidly as it seems you always do, you didn't stick around much so I don't have much to say here.

Werekill: You played better than I expected but were way to arrogant at points during the game. You got a bit too hung up on certain things and the way you conducted yourself viz a viz Raziek made it only less likely people would believe you. You also could maybe have argued instead of "town don't have anti-town roles" that "town don't get roles that gives them the opportunity to harm town" i.e Lovers is a nerf to town, but there's no choice whereas the shortening deadline ability is something the player would have to choose to use.

John2k4: You really shouldn't have joined this game considering you really didn't know what was going on at the start but whatever.

Kantrip: You're improving a very good rate since the newbie we played together

J: I really wish you put more care and effort into the game before you replaced out, I know it sucked when it was just you on D2 but you knew T-block could come back and with you being on Xastrn's lynch you really weren't in that bad a situation.

Acrostic: I'm truly amazed how far you managed to get considering the situation you replaced into, and as always, props for replacing in.

Inferno: You played pretty solidly, obviously admitting to being hated was a bit dumb but we all make mistakes and you weren't to know the game wasn't over. Your used your ability well imo


Set-up: This is my best work so far by a long distance and while the game was still amazing I'm disappointed some of the nuances of the roles didn't come to light - Xastrn's ability could find out multiple different things about the character, most of which was flavour information such as seeing two palm trees when visiting John, or "you need to make an appointment" for Circus. I have a whole list of possible results for each character which varied from something you might find rather useless (unless you really know the game) like "There's ants on the floor" (Anju) to "Everyone hates this guy" (Sakon). The hobo would also find out that Solid/Panta were with another person if they re-united that night and a bunch of other less interesting things

The poisoning was species specific and was designed such that if you targeted someone with the wrong poison they'd be notified they felt a little queasy, meant such that during N1 mafia may well have to guess at a species poison to use such that town would always be at least aware of some poisoner by D3 start at the latest. This was admittedly mainly to start people wandering about indy factions as that is a fairly logical place to assume the poison would start from. The poisoner and abductor also worked in a way such that if someone got poisoned one night and abducted the next they would die but their body (and thus their flip) would not be revealed until the abductor died. Unfortunately even though I've run a set-up with abductor and poisoner on AIM about a billion times this never happens . The abductor was also completely immune to visiting Night Actions however he didn't know this and NA priority was not released, however he was meant to assume that some sensible resolution would be in place and thus was probably immune to kills etc

Shoutout to Hilts original Majoras Mask game which was really awesome, such to the point that I left a few things in which are reminiscent of that game, don't think even Nabe spotted them all. The sample PM is the same character, Jim the red bomber is in the mafia (also meant to cause confusion and make people think of multiple mafia teams (each of 2 players)) if one of the lovers was abducted the other would become voteless, similar to Romani's role in the original when she gets abducted and released.

The other thing about this game which I tried to keep in check as best as I could was the ability for players to figure out at least a vague idea what a role did based just off the role name, for example when someone flips "Town Fortune Teller" or "Town Tinkerer" it stops people from being able to guess at the set-up and leaves players in the dark, I think that in this game all the roles save for maybe Circus' were sufficiently self-explanatory by role name so players could figure out what they did. Also no-one seemed to know but Hobo was a pre-existing role which is a weak flavour cop, just as I described in the role PM, kinda surprised no-one knew this but whatever, it all worked out fine in the end.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I can't remember now what drove me to hide that protective soft-claim in my "notepad notes", but I was honestly thinking that scum wouldn't buy it. I was pretty happy they did though, because me being killed was really good for the game, in my eyes. I was an easy mis-lynch for scum, I had connections with other players, I was a VT, and I didn't feel confident that I could help out in end game.

It wasn't good for me, I thought you were scum D: You left me dry.

X1: Yeah, poor move on my part. I was sure Hider would fit well enough, and was actually more worried that town might take the name ??? as some kind of abductor tell, haha.

 

[X1-12]

I don't really think it was a poor play, you weren't to know both of those roles existed and the claim was nice and inventive, how long did you have it planned?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

As soon as I read my PM. I didn't feel comfortable claiming Tatl, VT (would've been fine in retrospect) because it wouldn't sync with peoples' results after targeting me at Night. And I also knew I wanted to draw an NK, so that led to hider with an overt cop claim. I sprung it too early, I didn't want the NK on Night 1 -- although I also figured on another killing role of some nature, and thought I might've drawn the real cop instead if they existed.

The cop claim would also allow me to rest on my laurels while I played SK in MMX, haha.

 

[Inferno3044]

So something I realized. The Raziek/J/T-block trio was SvSvS. WTF is this? Raziek wasn't aligned with J or T-Block but really?

@Kuz - I might become afraid of you in future games if we aren't the same alignment lol.

 

[Raziek]

Even more hilariously, the original "Town Team" of Raziek/Nabe/J/T-Block was 2 scum and the Indies.

GET AT US.

 

[T-block]

Not gonna do full shoutouts because I wasn't here for a lot of the time lol

Raziek: - Different alignments again =(

Nabe: Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabe I finally got a scum role and I didn't get to play for most of the game >=( Nice job drawing the NK though... and no worries about calling out the miller claim - I don't think it would have made a difference if you hadn't done so.

kuz: - Again, nice game. I was actually convinced you were the indy at the end haha... the thing that stood out most was you saying Raziek's push on Werekill incriminated Raziek, which didn't make sense to me (and Raziek brought this up as well), along with OS's call for Solid's race, etc. etc.

OS: - Why did you ask for Solid's race lol

Dastrn: - As X1 said, it's not really our job to save you. In retrospect, I absolutely should have bussed you along with J, but I felt bad with what you were posting in the QT. It's not a given at all that we would have won if you hadn't been lynched, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. "Staying in character" is important too... don't be mad at J - he made the right play.

Red Ryu: - As I said, when you were on Raziek asking him to prove his deadline extending ability right after Housepets I was laughing pretty hard. Turns out you had reason to suspect it, which makes it even funnier xP

dabuz: - It was painful watching kuz on you at the end, man =( I think you really need to read and try to better understand what people are saying before you respond. It looks bad when you respond to something completely different from what the other was saying, and it's frustrating to play against no matter what the alignment.

Circus: - Cool motivation, huh? D=

J: - MAN IF ONLY YOU HAD SENT IN THE KILL ON NABE INSTEAD. Sucks that you had to replace out =( It was fun playing with you for the little time we had.

Acrostic: - I thought you put up a decent effort even though you were in a pretty bad situation the whole time. Too bad we never got to play together.

X1: - Thanks for hosting... echoing the sentiments that it was a great setup. I had a lot of fun even though I was absent for most of the game. Even reading it was really entertaining. Still salty about my Demotivate scheme not working in the end, but I'll get over it =P My thinking was that standard NAR has roleblocks before protects, so even though Inferno's was also a roleblock, I would go before him. I had no way of knowing that Motivate was equal priority to Jail, and I actually thought that the Jail would prevent my Motivate from happening xP

 

[Lore]

Shout outs coming later; I'm using times square wifi (NYC babay) to say some things.

First, Go Town! We did well, other than missing the Raz lynch and ML'ing me.

Kuz, have I gotten better since that Newbie game?

X1, why was there a survivor when the game rules said no survivor?

Anyway, all I have to say now is that I'm happy that all my scum reads, minus the short Circus spiel, were mostly correct. I only dropped Nabe to lower the lynch pool count, haha, I was going to come back to him later.

Raz, I'm really mad that I was the only one pushing for your lynch, haha. I was waiting for somebody to say "hey raz, since we're scrambling so much, why not extend time? But no one ever did, and it would have looked bad if I asked that.

But really, are you surprised that no one called you out on not extending time?

And that's it for now. GG, guys.

 

[Overswarm]

OS: - Why did you ask for Solid's race lol

Forced him to get into the game and gave town more information, and also set me up as a power role when I was just a VT. Soaking a NKill, as it were.

 

[Raziek]

You do realize why you couldn't lynch me, right Werekill?

I just goaded you into emotional play and it just made you look like you were bat**** crazy. You need to keep that under control if you want to actually get a scumread lynched.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@Kuzi
you're right, i probably didn't reach much but it was just my thought on the matter, if X1 gives you MvP, let him.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

MVP Raziek.

 

[Circus]

Also no-one seemed to know but Hobo was a pre-existing role which is a weak flavour cop, just as I described in the role PM, kinda surprised no-one knew this but whatever, it all worked out fine in the end.

Actually, I knew this. And I didn't feel like I was the only one.

Circus: - Cool motivation, huh? D=

Totes. I really appreciated it.

Also, I'm going to echo the sentiment going around that your initial posts when coming back into the game were very well done. You were thrust into pretty much the worst possible situation, and it would have been very easy to just throw in the towel in entirely. Not only did you not do that, but you actually made a pretty well stitched together case for how you still might not be the last maf. It was a good show, even though it didn't work.

No MVP

I thought there was a lot of really solid play this game (and some derping, including from me), but no one was amazing. Nabe played really well, but I don't feel right giving him MVP when he basically just gave up at the end (though I understand his apathy). Raz did well, and was mostly just ****ed over by things outside of his control, but even as an indy without a kill, I think he could have pulled out a win if he had the energy at the end to try harder. Even against Kuz, he still had a fair amount going for him with the Link claim and with Kuz being so eager to end the Day (which was understandable from Kuz's position, but could have been spun strongly against him). All he had to do was convince Inferno and Red Ryu to doubt Kuz enough to vote for him. It would have been tricky because Kuz would have fought tooth and nail against it, but I would have liked to see more fight in him.

I really don't think anyone on town's side was specifically integral to our success. If it would be anyone, I guess it would be Kuz. He did well, and it was a good thing we were able to keep a strong townie in mylo, but he wasn't the savior that he seems to think he was in this game.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

he wasn't the savior that he seems to think he was in this game.

Woah, the tone just 180'd.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Go town, good stuff guys. Great set up X1, I really liked my role and I was a bit sad I wasn't able to use it. I think the moral of the story for me is that I need to not sign up for games during school, it's too much and I feel like I play like **** when I have lots of other stuff on my mind. Don't know why I thought I was up for this haha. It was fun while I was in though, and keeping up with the game and how wrong some of my early reads were was funny.